Saab is most likely gone

itarumaa

Hi all,

accordingly to Finnish media, Swedish Customs has stopped all deliveries to Saab, because Saab does not have money to pay the bills to subcontractors and customs.

So at the moment Saab factory has stopped the production, because they don't have any more parts to make cars.

And they cannot get parts because they have no money left to pay for them,

So most likely this is it, sad to see Saab go.

v240gltse

hi,

that's very sad news indeed as i always had a soft spot for Saabs and having had the pleasure of owning a 900 2.3 they will be missed.

another victim of the global recession .

brendan

jimmycrackcorm

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Looks like the Swedish government is going to guarantee a loan.

itarumaa

Well, all the news I have heard were the same; Swedish government has no interest to give loan to Saab.

However there was some rumors that Saab would go independent, maybe team up with Opel Germany,

but only time will tell, at the moment Saab is in serious trouble anyway.

Capt'n Midnight

will this affect the airplanes ?

CarCity

They are owned by General Motors who are also not going great guns at the moment. Swedish govt are claiming that GM are trying to trap them into investing.

They are in the early stages of bankruptcy, but could still be saved.

peasant

Opel Germany find themselves in a similar situation. Albeit not broke yet, they desperatly need some cash at the moment. According to experts they should have a good future as an independent company, but until they can be dis-entangled from GM nobody is willing to invest as the fear is that all moneys will just dissapear into the big sinkhole that is GM.

Guy:Incognito

woops, wrong thread.

bazz26

CarCity wrote: »

They are owned by General Motors who are also not going great guns at the moment. Swedish govt are claiming that GM are trying to trap them into investing.

They are in the early stages of bankruptcy, but could still be saved.

Saab were released by GM last week to my knowledge.

AugustusMaximus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

will this affect the airplanes ?

Different company. Saab AB is the plane and aerospace manufacturer. They sold the car business to GM in the early 90's.

Dunno what the story is about the name and logo. I'm guessing Saab AB are prob getting royalties for its usage by GM ?


Opel at guess will split from GM with a new company formed to merge Opel/Vauxhall at a guess. What GM will do with Holden is another mystery.

This will prob signal even more Chevrolet models entering the European market which GM have already signalled anyways.

CharlieCroker

rumors that i've heard (dunno how accurate) was that Opel were thinking of teaming up with Bmw so that Opel have access to higher output diesel engines (Opel had a diesel BMW 2.5 engine in the Omega) and rear wheel drive and so BMW have access to front wheel drive for the MINI and new 1 series and smaller capacity engines.

I reckon it would be good for both sides if true.

stratos

well they did use a Triumph tr7 engine in the Sabb 900. a bad beginining. took a few years to catch up with them. British Leyland got them eventually.

Ferris

stratos wrote: »

well they did use a Triumph tr7 engine in the Sabb 900. a bad beginining. took a few years to catch up with them. British Leyland got them eventually.

It was the first mass produced multi-valve engine and had decent output. It was a reliable engine for Saab (moreso than BL - due to poor quality control) and formed the basis for their B and H engines. In turbo form it was a ripper too, way ahead of its time, and probably what Saab will be most remembered for.

maidhc

CharlieCroker wrote: »

rumors that i've heard (dunno how accurate) was that Opel were thinking of teaming up with Bmw so that Opel have access to higher output diesel engines (Opel had a diesel BMW 2.5 engine in the Omega) and rear wheel drive and so BMW have access to front wheel drive for the MINI and new 1 series and smaller capacity engines.

I reckon it would be good for both sides if true.

But opel borrow entensively from Fiat when it comes to small cars.

(Fair play to fiat... a company that was bankrupt a few short years ago seems to be rather comfortable now...)

alias no.9

maidhc wrote: »

Fair play to fiat... a company that was bankrupt a few short years ago seems to be rather comfortable now...

They did well to break free from the clutches of GM and have proved that there is a future after GM. Maybe they could set up a consultancy business for GM subsidiaries trying to break free .

Bandara

Horrific looking cars, won't be missed.

Sad for the people losing their jobs though.

mumblin deaf ro

Apparently production is due to recommence today

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/02/saab-forced-to-stop-production-but-why.html

CharlieCroker

CharlieCroker wrote: »

so BMW have access to front wheel drive for the MINI and new 1 series and smaller capacity engines.

I reckon it would be good for both sides if true.

Never! I will shed a tear if BMW ever put their badge on a front wheel drive car.(mini does not count)



On topic.

I hope they are saved tbh. I wouldn't like the company to be brought down because they were bought out by GM who now cannot afford to keep them.

Bluefoam

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Opel were thinking of teaming up with Bmw... ...so BMW have access to front wheel drive for the MINI and new 1 series and smaller capacity engines.

Opels small front wheel drives are based on a Fiat platform. BMW & Fiat are in negotiations to share this platform - giving Alfa access to BMW technology for their larger platforms...

mumblin deaf ro

Am reading a book about the Saab 99 and 900 - Saab's devotion to front wheel drive seems to be largely based on its suitability for driving in (Swedish) snow compared with rear wheel drive. If Saab survives, it will be probably put a big push behind its all-wheel drive (called cross wheel drive) techonology for future cars.

anthony4335

I really hope they survive. They have always been my fav car, however I have never bought one, and was going to remedy that either this year or next.

robtri

like a few posters, always had a soft spot for Saabs,
my first auto that i drove was the saab 900, fully loaded at the time.... very nice car, and loved the old turbo range as well.......
the new turbo x looks promising and would like to see them survive independant to Gm, and go back to their old roots good old fashioned fun cars....

LoveDucati2

Poor Saab.

They were always an individuals car when I was growing up, and as I approach 40 the yearning for a 900 convertible is as bad as when I was 18.

mumblin deaf ro

Surprisingly, the Saab 9-3 convertible is Britain's best selling (four seater) convertible.

Saab Ed

Saab cant go it alone. It will end up like Rover if it tries. Fiat is the logical partner and now that I see GM are trying to off load Opel then a Fiat/Opel/Saab tie up could make perfect sense. Lots of platforms and engines already shared, economy of scale and the possibilty to share showroom space with each other could only benefit all parties involved at this time. Remember Fiat just entered into a kinda partnership with Chrysler not so long ago so the engine/platform/dealership sharing could be endless.

Ferris

Saab Ed wrote: »

Saab cant go it alone. It will end up like Rover if it tries. Fiat is the logical partner and now that I see GM are trying to off load Opel then a Fiat/Opel/Saab tie up could make perfect sense. Lots of platforms and engines already shared, economy of scale and the possibilty to share showroom space with each other could only benefit all parties involved at this time. Remember Fiat just entered into a kinda partnership with Chrysler not so long ago so the engine/platform/dealership sharing could be endless.

Could be a nice partnership for fiat alright, give them a premium brand alternative to Alfa.

Saab sell quite well in the states too remember.

testicle

bazz26 wrote: »

Saab were released by GM last week to my knowledge.

They weren't released. GM said they weren't giving them any more cash.

Tabnabs

Looks like Volvo have cleared some breathing space, but Gm wouldn't back SAAB

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/12673/

Bluefoam

Fiat (current climate considered) are actually in an alright possition, they have their tie up with Chrysler for their relaunch into the states - a possible link with BMW which would add credibility to the Alfa brand & a **** hot range of small cars wich are actually doing very well...

If I were in control I wouldn't touch Saab - they are one of Alfas biggest rivals, in terms of left thinking executives wanting something different. It would be better for Fiat if Saab went to the wall.

Rember that Fiat already make Opels and Fords - they get paid to do this and it costs them nothing - so there is a zero risk to their business...

I personally never understood the Opel/Vaxhaul brand - I don't know why people buy them, I don't understand why they have a wide customer base & I don't see any reason why Fiat would want to prop them up - they would be better of to coninue building cars/engines/chassis under contract & getting paid for it.

Lets not forget that Fiats new deisel engines due next year are the most advanced on the market & will be used on mass by loads of other manufactures if Fiat allow it & others will need to pay royalties for their future deisel engine developments to Fiat...

mumblin deaf ro

Sadly, if Saab is bought, it could be bought by some chinese company. Personally I think the best thing is for Saab to hang in there with Govt money for the next 18 months until its new line of cars is on sale, and then for it to be bought by a European manufacturer - but who? The early Saabs were seen to have a lot in common with Citroens design-wise, so perhaps it could be a way for them to crack the excutive market. Unlikely though.

oddone

Hammertime wrote: »

Horrific looking cars, won't be missed.

Sad for the people losing their jobs though.

:rolleyes:

What a 'horrific' statement to make. I imagine that was a wind up
comment or you're fishing.

Saabs are one of the smartest looking machines around today,
I hope this situation can be resuced.

Bluefoam

oddone wrote: »

Saabs are one of the smartest looking machines around today

Current Saabs are about as good looking as elbow skin - have you seen the nasty chrome surrounds they have put on the headlight surrounds - first time I saw that I thought it was some gob****e who modified it himself.

Saabs used to look fantastic & the 93 has a tiny bit of the looks of old - but current Saabs look like **** & are built on an ancient Vectra platform...

Bluefoam

Bluefoam wrote: »

Current Saabs are about as good looking as elbow skin - have you seen the nasty chrome surrounds they have put on the headlight surrounds - first time I saw that I thought it was some gob****e who modified it himself.

Saabs used to look fantastic & the 93 has a tiny bit of the looks of old - but current Saabs look like **** & are built on an ancient Vectra platform...

Having said that, I have a soft spot for the brand & would like to see them still going. I considered a 93 for my current car, but was put off by friends who drive them...

McSpud

I read they sold 30k vehicles a year at the start of this century but down to 20k last year.

Hard to see how Saab can survive on those numbers. They would surely have to be part of larger group?

Mr Benevolent

They would surely have to be part of larger group?

They were. GM had 'em, they proved to be unrecoverable and got tossed out. Fair enough, GM weren't so smart buying a niche marque like Saab in the first place.

Guy:Incognito

oddone wrote: »

Saabs are one of the smartest looking machines around today,
I hope this situation can be resuced.

Meh, dont see it myself.

mumblin deaf ro

Saab sold about 125,000 cars in 2007 (down to 98,000 in 2008). Needs to sell 140,000 to break even. Some new models, keenly priced and with a good promotion campaign and they'd easily crack the 140,000 mark.

mumblin deaf ro

9-3 is a beut to my eyes. Love the new x shape across the grille and bumper

http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/saab-9-3/saab-9-3-04.jpg

pburns

oddone wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What a 'horrific' statement to make. I imagine that was a wind up
comment or you're fishing.

Saabs are one of the smartest looking machines around today,
I hope this situation can be resuced.

:rolleyes:

That's from a guy who AFAIK owns (or aspires to) a Porsche Cayenne so I wouldn't get too upset!

unkel

alias no.9 wrote: »

They did well to break free from the clutches of GM

It was the other way around

GM didn't want to know about FIAT anymore and instead of buying them, they had to pay them a fortune to cancel the put option. Big mistake that was as FIAT made a complete turnaround since then, largely because of the leadership of Marchionne imho. It will probably go down in the history books as (one of) the most successful turnaround(s) in motoring history

Eoin

I don't care if the modern ones are re-branded Vectras or whatever, I think they are a lovely looking car. The 95 is a very comfortable place to be as well. I wouldn't want to see the end of them at all.

Saab Ed

unkel wrote: »

It was the other way around

GM didn't want to know about FIAT anymore and instead of buying them, they had to pay them a fortune to cancel the put option. Big mistake that was as FIAT made a complete turnaround since then, largely because of the leadership of Marchionne imho. It will probably go down in the history books as (one of) the most successful turnaround(s) in motoring history

And dont forget it was Fiat Auto that was in trouble, not the Fiat group which is huge and make everything from trains and buses to electric motors in dam's and robots that make cars for other companes...and thats only the start.

ArthurGuinness

alias no.9 wrote: »

They did well to break free from the clutches of GM and have proved that there is a future after GM. Maybe they could set up a consultancy business for GM subsidiaries trying to break free .

This is the reason that they are in this position. GM wanted rid of them not the other way around. Im just back from the states and the papers over there were claiming that GM also plans and haulting all production of HUMMER vehicles by 2011.

maidhc

Saab Ed wrote: »

And dont forget it was Fiat Auto that was in trouble, not the Fiat group which is huge and make everything from trains and buses to electric motors in dam's and robots that make cars for other companes...and thats only the start.

The second largest manufacturer of tractors and third largest manufacturer of construction equipment...in the world

But the car side of things shows what can happen with the right leadership.

mumblin deaf ro

The vectra in drag thing, aside from being a very old and hackneyed criticism, is a bit simplistic. The 9-3 is a heavily customised version of the epsilon platform - I have read that it shares only about 60% of epsilon at this stage, which is why it is expensive to produce and only one factory in the world (trollhattan) is set up to build it.

alias no.9

unkel wrote: »

It was the other way around

GM didn't want to know about FIAT anymore and instead of buying them, they had to pay them a fortune to cancel the put option. Big mistake that was as FIAT made a complete turnaround since then, largely because of the leadership of Marchionne imho. It will probably go down in the history books as (one of) the most successful turnaround(s) in motoring history

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

This is the reason that they are in this position. GM wanted rid of them not the other way around. Im just back from the states and the papers over there were claiming that GM also plans and haulting all production of HUMMER vehicles by 2011.

I don't think it wans quite as simple as that. FIAT forced GM's hand by triggering a clause in their contract where GM had to buy FIAT Auto or buy their way out of the contract. FIAT expected them to do the latter and they did.

oddone

They're smashing cars and imo one of the nicest and most unique looking on the road these days especially the newer 9-3 and 9-5 and to the poster above the chrome around the lights is quite smart and is fine with me.

But back on topic and aside fropm personal opinions, it seems Saab
may not be the only manufacturer in crisis.
A volvo dealer near me has recently closed its doors laying off staff.
Times certainly are not good for the motor trade.

unkel

No need for abusive language, oddone. That's a warning.

TomMc

oddone ..... you are living up to your username. The Dame Edna specs smart ..... I have heard it all now.

And I think you have taken PB's comments up all wrong as well, unless your referring to Hammertime's questionable tastes.

Owen

Clarkson said it best when he made the Dame Edna comparisson :

oddone

TomMc wrote: »

oddone ..... you are living up to your username. The Dame Edna specs smart ..... I have heard it all now.

And I think you have taken PB's comments up all wrong as well, unless your referring to Hammertime's questionable tastes.

Oh how clever. Clarkson said it so therefore it is officially uncool. :rolleyes:

That's a beautiful car. They really catch the eye on the road. I'm sure plenty more agree also.

But yes I see that user was commenting on the other guy's quote
not mine. Will edit above post, and the 'abusive language' was as a result.