slightly worrying story

shrapnel222

weird and slightly worrying story: last week i started receiving eflow standard toll requests to my house but for a different name, and when i opened it, a different registration number. So basically someone is using my address to register their car. I called up Eflow who basically told me this happened quite a lot and that they get details of car registrations directly from the dept of transport VRU offices out in County Clare, and that i should contact them if i wanted to flag it/do anything about it.

I called the VRU who basically told me they couldn't do anything about it, and couldn't remove the address on there unless they could replace it with another one. As i had no other address to replace it with, mine would stay on there. They said i should return the letter to them and then they might be able to flag and put a note on the system, but i told them i had no letter from them, only from eflow, so i asked them if i returned it to eflow, could eflow forward it on to them to open an investigation, and they said no that wasn't allowed. I then asked her what i could do to resolve this situation, and she basically told me to call the guards and report it.

So i decided to call the guards, and i called my local gardai station. i spoke to a really nice gardai, who i explained the whole situation to, who was kind of surprised to hear people are getting away with this at the registration stage, so he checked the system to see if they had any outstanding warrants or tickets on this registration number, which they didn't, and basically told me there was nothing more he could do, but would take a closer look at this. I asked him if a note or anything would go on the system, so that if ever this car was stopped, they would have to answer to this, he basically said no it wouldn’t

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a big deal by any stretch of the imagination, but I was just amazed at the fact that there is absolutely no procedure anywhere to deal with false registrations, and even when reported, no action is taken at all for future use. This person can basically keep his car registered at my address, and I imagine, if he feels the need can also get a parking permit of the back of it etc…

Anyone have any thoughts as to where I should take this next or I should I just drop it? I actually managed to find out the make and model of the car and when it was registered at my address, so it’s been entertaining seeing how far, or how much I can find out. The name of the person, is also the name of a TD, so I might try and find out what car this TD drives on the off chance it’s his.:D

stealthyspeeder

Doesnt sound good!

Whats a TD by the way?

Guy:Incognito

If they registered the car to your adress surely the VLC would have arrived at your door at some stage?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Whats a TD by the way?

:eek: srsly? http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=%2Fdocuments%2Fmembers%2Fdocument1.htm

shrapnel222

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Doesnt sound good!

Whats a TD by the way?

a politician, a councilman

shrapnel222

Stekelly wrote: »

If they registered the car to your adress surely the VLC would have arrived at your door at some stage?

that;s the thing, i've never received anything and on both the VRU system and the gardai system, that address was the only one attached to that vehicle

Dartz

TD:

Fair target at a shooting range.


In my opinion, idiocy before malice. Somebody probably made a mistake somehwere. a car might be registered at a particular address where the owner lives when he bought it, and he might forget to change it when he moves away. Either that or someone in the tax office made a mistake.

Guy:Incognito

shrapnel222 wrote: »

that;s the thing, i've never received anything and on both the VRU system and the gardai system, that address was the only one attached to that vehicle

Did the people in Shannon confirm that the car is registered to your adress and that its not just an error on Eflows database?

If it was regisitered to your address I dont think theres a way to divert the VLC elswhere.

shrapnel222

Stekelly wrote: »

Did the people in Shannon confirm that the car is registered to your adress and that its not just an error on Eflows database?

If it was regisitered to your address I dont think theres a way to divert the VLC elswhere.

they confirmed it as the registered address

Rovi

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Doesnt sound good!

Whats a TD by the way?

shrapnel222 wrote: »

a politician, a councilman

Not quite:
TD = abbreviation of Teachta Dála

Jemmy

I worked in a CoCo where we got complaints in over the phone about parking fines people received and they didn't live anywhere near the town they were issued in and had never visited it but were getting these tickets.

It happened a surprising number of times and I was only there a few months.

j2dab

But does that not mean you would get tax reminder/nct reminders sent to your house?

are you a tenent? like someone might have lived there before you?

shrapnel222

j2dab wrote: »

But does that not mean you would get tax reminder/nct reminders sent to your house?

Deleted User wrote: »

are you a tenent? like someone might have lived there before you?

yes but according the VRU, he only registered the car to this address a few weeks ago, and we've been in the house a couple of years, so his mistake is deliberate

Guy:Incognito

shrapnel222 wrote: »

yes but according the VRU, he only registered the car to this address a few weeks ago, and we've been in the house a couple of years, so his mistake is deliberate

That doesnt explain why the vlc didnt arrive at your ouse in the last couple of weeks.

I dotn think they are busy cos I sent one off last tuesday and got it yesterday.

Bluefoam

I lived in an apartment once where the girl downstairs tried to register her car to my address - then came to our door looking for the corespondance - it was obvious she was trying to pull a fast one - anyway I had sent all her mail back to the relevant people and informed the Gaurds...

j2dab

There is nothing really to worry about, let the bills stack up at the end of the day its not your name and nothing can be done to you

DubTony

Have you had a look around your area? It could be a typo or something as simple as a similar road name etc. Although why the certificate didn't arrive at your house is odd. Try to catch your regular postman someday and ask if he recognises the name. Having said that, he could be in cahoots with a mate. :eek:

shrapnel222

Stekelly wrote: »

That doesnt explain why the vlc didnt arrive at your ouse in the last couple of weeks.

I dotn think they are busy cos I sent one off last tuesday and got it yesterday.

i know, it's strange but i've not seen anything else come through

Bluefoam wrote: »

I lived in an apartment once where the girl downstairs tried to register her car to my address - then came to our door looking for the corespondance - it was obvious she was trying to pull a fast one - anyway I had sent all her mail back to the relevant people and informed the Gaurds...

this would be the most common scam, but i live in a house and up to now noone's been round to collect mail.

j2dab wrote: »

There is nothing really to worry about, let the bills stack up at the end of the day its not your name and nothing can be done to you

i'm not really worried, but if someone is involved in some kind of scam, i don't want me or my address to be a part of it. simple as that.

DubTony wrote: »

Have you had a look around your area? It could be a typo or something as simple as a similar road name etc. Although why the certificate didn't arrive at your house is odd. Try to catch your regular postman someday and ask if he recognises the name. Having said that, he could be in cahoots with a mate. :eek:

i've started looking for the car, but nothing so far. i'll ask my neighbor if the name rings any bells as she's been around most of her life

ttm

Any chance you can dig a bit deeper and find the previous owner? Always a chance they would remember who they sold it to?

shrapnel222

ttm wrote: »

Any chance you can dig a bit deeper and find the previous owner? Always a chance they would remember who they sold it to?

i think this would be pretty easy to be fair, but i've already got the guys name and alleged address. I doubt the guy could tell me much more other than what the new owner looked at. And to be fair, i don't mind getting info from the internet and government organisations, but to start questionning private people about other people doesn't really appeal to me and would seem, to me anyway, slightly intrusive.

biko

Re-register address to Leinster House

shrapnel222

biko wrote: »

Re-register address to Leinster House

i'd love to, but they won't let me change it without some kind of proof

ttm

shrapnel222 wrote: »

i think this would be pretty easy to be fair, but i've already got the guys name and alleged address. I doubt the guy could tell me much more other than what the new owner looked at. And to be fair, i don't mind getting info from the internet and government organisations, but to start questionning private people about other people doesn't really appeal to me and would seem, to me anyway, slightly intrusive.

I can see your point of view but if you were buying a second hand car would you be afraid to phone up a previous owner and check if the number of miles on the clock were true. I've not done it myself but my son in law has several times and in all cases the previous owners have been more than happy to provide information especially if it proves the cars have been clocked.

The person that sold the car should afaik have filled out their part of the owner documents to say the car has been sold and who the new owner is, I know this isn't always done but theres always the chance they were given your address and hence the problem, but then you would have been sent the new ownership documents?

Del2005

shrapnel222 wrote: »

yes but according the VRU, he only registered the car to this address a few weeks ago, and we've been in the house a couple of years, so his mistake is deliberate

AFAIK the VLC doesn't get sent out till the car is taxed. If the person hasn't taxed the car, and if they are using a false address they won't, then the VLC won't arrive. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just make a note of the times/dates and and names (if you have then) of all the calls you made, on the small chance that something may come back and you can prove that you tried to remedy it to no avail.

But if it does arrive, why not fill in the change of ownership to yourself and report it stolen:D

shrapnel222

ttm wrote: »

I can see your point of view but if you were buying a second hand car would you be afraid to phone up a previous owner and check if the number of miles on the clock were true. I've not done it myself but my son in law has several times and in all cases the previous owners have been more than happy to provide information especially if it proves the cars have been clocked.

The person that sold the car should afaik have filled out their part of the owner documents to say the car has been sold and who the new owner is, I know this isn't always done but theres always the chance they were given your address and hence the problem, but then you would have been sent the new ownership documents?

you're right, under the right circumstances, this wouldn't be a problem at all, i just don't want to start making up stories to glean a little info on someone i know nothing about.

Del2005 wrote: »

AFAIK the VLC doesn't get sent out till the car is taxed. If the person hasn't taxed the car, and if they are using a false address they won't, then the VLC won't arrive. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just make a note of the times/dates and and names (if you have then) of all the calls you made, on the small chance that something may come back and you can prove that you tried to remedy it to no avail.

But if it does arrive, why not fill in the change of ownership to yourself and report it stolen:D

i like your style. if i was ready to leave the country, this would be perfect. an 03 merc sale might set me up nicely in a foreign country!!!:D

Guy:Incognito

Del2005 wrote: »

AFAIK the VLC doesn't get sent out till the car is taxed. If the person hasn't taxed the car, and if they are using a false address they won't, then the VLC won't arrive. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just make a note of the times/dates and and names (if you have then) of all the calls you made, on the small chance that something may come back and you can prove that you tried to remedy it to no avail.

But if it does arrive, why not fill in the change of ownership to yourself and report it stolen:D

The vlc /tax thing only applies , if at all (my experience says otherwise) to newly imported cars that have just had vrt paid. A normal change of ownership is processed and sent out straight away.

Buffman

OP, just put a bin beside your letter box,. Thats the place for all these letters. Don't worry about it, you've already wasted enough of your time on it. If the powers that be don't care, why should you! Once it's not in your name it doesn't matter.

shrapnel222

Buffman wrote: »

OP, just put a bin beside your letter box,. Thats the place for all these letters. Don't worry about it, you've already wasted enough of your time on it. If the powers that be don't care, why should you! Once it's not in your name it doesn't matter.

you're right of course, but it's actually getting ridiculous. over lthe last week i've received 2 eflow letters a day for this guy. it's worse than junk mail!!!

Buffman

shrapnel222 wrote: »

you're right of course, but it's actually getting ridiculous. over lthe last week i've received 2 eflow letters a day for this guy. it's worse than junk mail!!!

Just remember to recycle!:D

LoveDucati2

This is a great scam.

He has probably forwarded his name and your address to An Post redirection service, he is getting all his post and you are getting yours.

How long are you at your address?

You may have to check your address with Experian

shrapnel222

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

This is a great scam.

He has probably forwarded his name and your address to An Post redirection service, he is getting all his post and you are getting yours.

How long are you at your address?

You may have to check your address with Experian

a couple of years. we're still getting mail though so it's not being forwarded, although to be fair, when we moved here, we paid for the an post forwarding service. what a load of sh ite. we never received a single forwarded letter, we'd just get our old neighbor to check the mail for us, there'd be tons of it every week (we eventually complained and got refunded). So to even think about a scam using an post is like having a blindman as a lookout at a heist. (i'll check experian in any case )

walshy123

i have the same problem. i have been "returning" them to sender n batches of 20. have easily received 100 at this stage.

rang eflow twice. first time they did nothing. second time i got a response..... 50 odd responses in writing. i opened one, it said my claim had been investigated, but the fine was still payable and to update "my" address with VRO

i then got a tax renewal from VRO. returned to sender

more elow. rang vro, they said the car was tax was renewed in person.

shocking they will continue to let this person tax their car when i have informed them that my address is being fraudently used. i have lived at current address for three years!

Our man in Havana

The big problem is you do not need any proof of name and address to transfer ownership of any vehicle. I could open the buy and sell and see a car for sale, pay cash and give a false name and address to the owner who then sends off the VLC. The VRO don't look for proof of ID and they simply register the car to whatever details are given.

The system needs to be changed.

shrapnel222

walshy123 wrote: »

i have the same problem. i have been "returning" them to sender n batches of 20. have easily received 100 at this stage.

rang eflow twice. first time they did nothing. second time i got a response..... 50 odd responses in writing. i opened one, it said my claim had been investigated, but the fine was still payable and to update "my" address with VRO

i then got a tax renewal from VRO. returned to sender

more elow. rang vro, they said the car was tax was renewed in person.

shocking they will continue to let this person tax their car when i have informed them that my address is being fraudently used. i have lived at current address for three years!

Bond-007 wrote: »

The big problem is you do not need any proof of name and address to transfer ownership of any vehicle. I could open the buy and sell and see a car for sale, pay cash and give a false name and address to the owner who then sends off the VLC. The VRO don't look for proof of ID and they simply register the car to whatever details are given.

The system needs to be changed.

i agree, the fact it's so simple to do and that it's happening quite a lot, and both the VRO and the gardai are not doing anything about it is kind of worrying. last thing i need to do before i stop caring about this is to find out what car that TD drives, because if it's his, then that could make it interesting

green-blood

I'd ring up the vru and tell them your VLC is missing, have a new one sent out, then report the car stolen to the gardai... your house, your VLC... your car... pay the fines, sell teh car... happy days :-)

Páid

As a Government Dept. they are bound by Section 17 of the Freedom of Information Acts 1997 & 2003 which means that they must correct inaccurate information held about you.

http://www.foi.gov.ie

shrapnel222

green-blood wrote: »

I'd ring up the vru and tell them your VLC is missing, have a new one sent out, then report the car stolen to the gardai... your house, your VLC... your car... pay the fines, sell teh car... happy days :-)

if and when i move out i might just do that

Páid wrote: »

As a Government Dept. they are bound by Section 17 of the Freedom of Information Acts 1997 & 2003 which means that they must correct inaccurate information held about you.

http://www.foi.gov.ie

the VRU are all too happy to change it if i give them the correct address that should be on there, but they can't leave it blank. it's a catch 22

Páid

They are obliged by law to correct the record and its not up to the op to find out what the correct address is (that would be their job or the Gardaí). A simple letter or phonecall to their FOI division should be enough.

See the second bullet point here - http://www.environ.ie/en/FOI/

the right to have personal details on official records corrected or updated where such information is incomplete, incorrect or misleading;

shrapnel222

Páid wrote: »

They are obliged by law to correct the record and its not up to the op to find out what the correct address is (that would be their job or the Gardaí). A simple letter or phonecall to their FOI division should be enough.

See the second bullet point here - http://www.environ.ie/en/FOI/

thanks. i'll give them a call and see what they say

Our man in Havana

You will have to fight hard for those rights. I would think you will be forced to appeal all the way the information commissioner.

Páid

I doubt it. How could they defend holding information that they know is incorrect ? They are also passing this incorrect information onto a third party which could have implications under the Data Protection Act.

Our man in Havana

They can and will refuse to ammend their records.

Guy:Incognito

It's not inncorrect info about shrapnel. It's incorrect info about whoevers name is on the vlc.

jhegarty

As for a replacement VLC. Send it back with a change of address to you local motor tax office.

Páid

A persons address is considered to be personal information under the FOI Acts. This address appears on the record and is being passed to eflow.

This kind of crap will continue unless people like the op puts pressure on them to change it.

What would happen if the car was involved in a handbag snatch? The first place the Gardai would turn up would be the op's address. At least if the op challenges the DOE under FOI there's a written record of the error and that the op tried to have it fixed. The op will also have a written record from the DOE that they refused to change it if they're not willing to.

Guy:Incognito

Páid wrote: »

What would happen if the car was involved in a handbag snatch? The first place the Gardai would turn up would be the op's address. .

And then when he didnt match the name the car is registered to or the description of the person, and the fact that he was elswhere at the time, doesnt have the car and has never seen it they will go about their business.

The same address could be "personal information" for any number of people all at the same time.

Páid

The same address could be "personal information" for any number of people all at the same time.

It doesn't make the information any less personal.

And then when he didnt match the name the car is registered to or the description of the person, and the fact that he was elswhere at the time, doesnt have the car and has never seen it they will go about their business.

I'm sure thats what all the handbag snatchers say to the Gardai.

Gregor Samsa

Páid wrote: »

As a Government Dept. they are bound by Section 17 of the Freedom of Information Acts 1997 & 2003 which means that they must correct inaccurate information held about you.

http://www.foi.gov.ie

But they don't have inaccurate information held on the OP. The vehicle is registered in someone else's name, but with the OP's address. So it's the other guy that they have the inaccurate information on, and he's obviously not complaining.

Edit: I saw your reply to a similar post above after I posted - but I don't see how an address can be considered the personal information of the OP when attached to a different name - even in error. It clearly identifies two different people, and there's no question that the OP's information is in any way compromised.

Dates of birth are personal information too. Does that allow me to "correct" the information held on anyone else who claims to share mine?

Guy:Incognito

Páid wrote: »

I'm sure thats what all the handbag snatchers say to the Gardai.

Yeah, cos all the Gards use as evidence is a VLC that happens to have your address on it(not even the name).

Carawaystick

phutyle wrote: »

But they don't have inaccurate information held on the OP. The vehicle is registered in someone else's name, but with the OP's address. So it's the other guy that they have the inaccurate information on, and he's obviously not complaining.

Edit: I saw your reply to a similar post above after I posted - but I don't see how an address can be considered the personal information of the OP when attached to a different name - even in error. It clearly identifies two different people, and there's no question that the OP's information is in any way compromised.

Dates of birth are personal information too. Does that allow me to "correct" the information held on anyone else who claims to share mine?

They do have incorrect information on the OP. They have a record stating that X McY lives in the OP's house. This is incorrect and must be changed.

Páid

Section 2(b)(ix) defines personal information as

(xi) information relating to property of the individual (including the nature of the individual's title to any property)....

This means that the address is personal information.

This is a quote from a decision made by the information commissioner that supports this opinion.

The decision also found that the individual's address met the definition of personal information as set out under (a) of that definition and was not required to be released in the public interest in this case.

and

Decision
Having carried out a review under section 34(2) of the Freedom of Information Act, 1997 I hereby vary the decision of the Department in that access should be refused to Mr X's address.

http://www.oic.gov.ie/en/DecisionsoftheCommissioner/LetterDecisions/Name,1032,en.htm

The address of the OP is not "personal information" belonging to the registered owner of the car (as they don't live there). Personal information belonging to the OP is incorrectly recorded on the DOE's system and the OP has a right to have this corrected. In fact it is both misleading and inaccurate. Besides, it won't cost the OP anything (not even the price of a stamp) to request the change under FOI.

Yeah, cos all the Gards use as evidence is a VLC that happens to have your address on it(not even the name).

Don't be ridiculous. Are you trying to say that the Gardai would not call to the registered address of the owner as part of their enquiries if the car was involved in a serious crime ?