Deadlift - reached 5x5 max - what next?

BossArky

Over the past 8 weeks I have increased my deadlift gradually week on week, initially with 5kg, and more recently with 2.5kg.

Last week 122.5kg 5x5 was ugly but I got through it. This morning 125kg 5x5 = fail. I just managed 1x4, then 2x2.

What should I do next?

I have seen Hanley recommend working 5x5 up to a max, then continuing with 3x5, then 5x3, then 3x3, then 1x3.

My question is this: If I now change to 3x5 do I continue attempting 125kg? Or, do I knock off 10kg and start from there with the 3x5?

After than, when I reach a 3x5 max in a few weeks, do I again continue with the same weight for 5x3, or knock weight off first? I doubt I could manage 125kg on 3x5 at the moment... hence this thread.

delllat

BossArky wrote: »

Over the past 8 weeks I have increased my deadlift gradually week on week, initially with 5kg, and more recently with 2.5kg.

Last week 122.5kg 5x5 was ugly but I got through it. This morning 125kg 5x5 = fail. I just managed 1x4, then 2x2.

What should I do next?

I have seen Hanley recommend working 5x5 up to a max, then continuing with 3x5, then 5x3, then 3x3, then 1x3.

My question is this: If I now change to 3x5 do I continue attempting 125kg? Or, do I knock off 10kg and start from there with the 3x5?

After than, when I reach a 3x5 max in a few weeks, do I again continue with the same weight for 5x3, or knock weight off first? I doubt I could manage 125kg on 3x5 at the moment... hence this thread.

increase weight

Edwardius

delllat wrote: »

increase weight

Ya mean isometric deadlift holds? man, they suck !

kevpants

I think the idea was to add weight then attempt 5 sets of 3. Then add more weight and attempt 3 sets of 3. Then add more again and attempt 1 set of 3. If you got to that stage your strength for 5x5, if you went back and tested it, would have increased.

Dropping weight is handy if you stall but I'd just be worried if I was dropping it all the time that I'd be treading water. The approach above I'd imagine allows you to keep increasing the weight.

I'm no 5x5 expert by any stretch these are just my own theories.

How I theorized I'd attempt a 5x5 style set up would be to pick a weight that 5x5 is just out of my reach on and try and build to getting 5 sets of 5. Once I succesfully completed all 5 reps on all 5 sets I'd add weight again and maybe do 5 sets of whatever I could, maybe:

x5 reps
x5 reps
x4 reps
x3 reps
x2 reps

The next week I might be able to get:

x5 reps
x5 reps
x4 reps
x4 reps
x2 reps

A slight improvement but I'd gradually work up to 5x5. Then it's time for more weight. So basically 5 sets of 5 is a goal I'd rarely hit, and once I did I'd make things heavier.

Maybe this goes against everything 5x5 is about, I've never looked into that approach very deeply.

BossArky

delllat wrote: »

increase weight

Up to 127.5kg?? for what sets/reps next week? :eek:

kevpants wrote: »

I think the idea was to add weight then attempt 5 sets of 3.

So, next week I should go for 125kg at 5x3?

kevpants wrote: »

How I theorized I'd attempt a 5x5 style set up would be to pick a weight that 5x5 is just out of my reach on and try and build to getting 5 sets of 5.

Before this 8 week period my 5x5 max was 115kg, so I'm happy to have increased this by 7.5kg. I'm worried about going any heavier as my from is breaking down and I don't want to pick up an injury due to rounded back.

Reyman

kevpants wrote: »

I

x5 reps
x5 reps
x4 reps
x3 reps
x2 reps

The next week I might be able to get:

x5 reps
x5 reps
x4 reps
x4 reps
x2 reps

A slight improvement but I'd gradually work up to 5x5. Then it's time for more weight. So basically 5 sets of 5 is a goal I'd rarely hit, and once I did I'd make things heavier.

Maybe this goes against everything 5x5 is about, I've never looked into that approach very deeply.

Kev: What rest period are you taking between sets on this session?

kevpants

BossArky wrote: »

So, next week I should go for 125kg at 5x3?

That was my understanding of it yeah.

BossArky wrote: »

Before this 8 week period my 5x5 max was 115kg, so I'm happy to have increased this by 7.5kg. I'm worried about going any heavier as my from is breaking down and I don't want to pick up an injury due to rounded back.

Do you got "touch and go" with your reps or do you let the weight drop then reset yourself and go again. I'd recommend getting a fresh set up for every rep, don't stand up and get a drink or anything but you know what I mean.

Thing about deadlifts is [whisper]Imperfect form isn't the end of the world[/whisper]:eek:. You know how to deadlift, if you're pushing so hard that the weight pulls you a little out of shape it's ok so long as you keep a tight setup.

Reyman wrote: »

Kev: What rest period are you taking between sets on this session?

I'm not actually doing it, I just kinda made it up but my feeling on rest is take as much as you need, I'm not one for looking at the stopwatch between sets. IMO you'll get more out of taking an extra 2 mins rest and managing an extra rep than you would if you tried to stick to a 2min rest period between every set as a hard and fast rule.

BossArky

kevpants wrote: »

Do you got "touch and go" with your reps or do you let the weight drop then reset yourself and go again. I'd recommend getting a fresh set up for every rep, don't stand up and get a drink or anything but you know what I mean.

Up until 122.5kg last week I kept my hands on the bar throughout the 5 reps. e.g.

Set 1

• rep 1: Up, Down, few lungfuls of air... 5-10 secs rest
• rep 2: Up, Down, few lungfuls of air... 5-10 secs rest
• rep 3: Up, Down, few lungfuls of air... 5-10 secs rest
• rep 4: Up, Down, few lungfuls of air... 30-60 secs rest as getting knackered
• rep 5: Up, Down, few lungfuls of air... 30-60 secs rest, as above

I switch the mixed grip each set, alternating right under / right over.

However, today I couldn't mange to keep my grip and had to switch mid set or else my fingers would have been torn off.

kevpants wrote: »

Thing about deadlifts is [whisper]Imperfect form isn't the end of the world[/whisper]:eek:. You know how to deadlift, if you're pushing so hard that the weight pulls you a little out of shape it's ok so long as you keep a tight setup.

That is the problem. My form isn't holding up enough and the weight is just too much at the moment :mad:

I'm interested to see what other people do in such a situation. It is fine to say "add weight".... but... doing a handful of dodgy reps isn't going to get me too far (except maybe the emergency room).

Hanley

I'd say back down to build up....

How long have you been pulling for without a break? Sounds like a bit of cumulative fatigue has hit you at this stage since you couldn't even get one set of 5 with 2.5kg more.

Maybe go down to something like 110kg, 115, 120 3x5 over the course of 3 weeks, then 125 x5, 127 or 130 x5 the weeks after.

Basically, give your body a break and then push up the weight again.

When you hit a max set of 5, you might want to back down 10kg and do it all again with 3x3 and then 1x3.

It's such a simple but effective concept. All it requires is hard work!

And FWIW, I wouldn't bother with 2.5kg increases, I'd back down a little bit more and push for 5kg. The difference betweent 120 and 122 is almost not existent when you're deadlift, but the fatigue that it creates is significant.

I'm not explaining what I mean too well, but basically if you're able for X on week 5, and only do a little bit more on week 6 thne your body's going to hit a point where the weeks of work have built u p and it'll say no more.

Jumping 5kg per week might only last for 4 weeks, but IMO it's time better spent than 8 weels with 2.5kg only to end up at the same spot.

I would personally rather attempt the following progression (still takes 8 weeks, and still has a max potential increase of 20kg, but you're not working as intensely each week which should allow you to recover that bit more mid way thru and hit PR's in later weeks.)

week 1-4:110,115,120,125
week 5-8: 115,120,125,130

BossArky

Hanley wrote: »

I'd say back down to build up....

How long have you been pulling for without a break? Sounds like a bit of cumulative fatigue has hit you at this stage since you couldn't even get one set of 5 with 2.5kg more.

I have been deadlifting once a week for the past 8 weeks. I do feel a bit knackered from it tbh.

Hanley wrote: »

And FWIW, I wouldn't bother with 2.5kg increases, I'd back down a little bit more and push for 5kg. The difference betweent 120 and 122 is almost not existent when you're deadlift, but the fatigue that it creates is significant.

Jumping 5kg per week might only last for 4 weeks, but IMO it's time better spent than 8 weels with 2.5kg only to end up at the same spot.

Ok. Interesting.

Would you recommend the same approach for squats on a 5x5? I'm currently just bumping them up by 2.5kg per week too.

Hanley wrote: »

I would personally rather attempt the following progression (still takes 8 weeks, and still has a max potential increase of 20kg, but you're not working as intensely each week which should allow you to recover that bit more mid way thru and hit PR's in later weeks.)

week 1-4:110,115,120,125
week 5-8: 115,120,125,130

I shall give this progression a go when I start my next round in a few weeks.

Thanks for the advice - makes sense to get to the point instead of sneaking up too slowly.

Hanley

BossArky wrote: »

I have been deadlifting once a week for the past 8 weeks. I do feel a bit knackered from it tbh.

Ok. Interesting.

Would you recommend the same approach for squats on a 5x5? I'm currently just bumping them up by 2.5kg per week too.

I would say yes to that.

The difference, I feel, between benching and squatting/DL is that you can grind lifts out better with the latter two, so they lend themselves to slightly bigger increase. Ican have a hard 3rd and 4th rep and still get the 5th like. But with benching one hard rep and I'm gone on the next one!

I shall give this progression a go when I start my next round in a few weeks.

Thanks for the advice - makes sense to get to the point instead of sneaking up too slowly.

Exactly!!

Let me know how it goes.

BossArky

Thanks for the clarification.

I'll update this thread in 8-10 weeks with my progress.

Transform

totally agree with Hanley

Back off for a week and build back up - though i would still build it up in small jumps just to extend out the progress.

Some partial deadlifts and 3-4 singles are useful also (with good technique)every 3-4 weeks. Has helped me get 195kg today for singles with no belt, chalk or wraps.

Grip work helps also.