WANTED:Irish hearse/coachbuilders info.

junkyard

Well I've been putting it off forever but I'll have to start someday........... I'm looking for info and photos of old hearses and limos that were built in Ireland. I know a lot of old American cars were landed in Cobh, where I live, from the liners in the 60's and 70's and a lot of these ended up as hearses. All the local undertakers in my town had at least one american hearse over the years and I remember as a kid finding a field full of old cars dating back to the 40's as far as I can recall, behind a family friends farmyard. This stash of cars was used as a parts supply for the local undertakers and taxis. I found a few old Packards in some other farmyards over the years but sadly they're all gone now. There's one Packard still in the basement of a house locally to me, one side is intact but the other is rotten. I'd really like to hear of any "homemade" hearse and the people who built them and photos would be great too, thanks in advance.
I'll start with a one owner Austin I restored for the same family recently, based on a 1961 Austin A55 van, extended and converted by a company named Callow and son, Dublin.

carchaeologist

Great idea for a thread Junkyard,i have more than a passing interest in this stuff too,the classic hearse register http://www.hearseclub.co.uk/ list these as irish coachbuilders.
Irish Funeral Vehicles
C A B Motors
William Denby & Sons
Fahy Bros Coachbuilders
Wilton of Belfast
Pierce Ltd
Mangans of Edenderry
McKinley Ltd
Fearghas Quinn
Byrne Coachbuilders
Duffy Coachbodies
Charles Hurst Ltd
Callows of Dublin
J Kenny Coachmakers
Griffith Roberts Ltd

Anyone else have info on this?

carchaeologist

I reckon these are irish built..

1969Mk4 Ford zodiac

1974 Ford MK1 Granada

1982 Ford MK2 Granada
And as PanhardPL pointed out,this was owned by his father as a car before being converted by a guy in Abbeyfeale in limerick,you can see the roof where it was cut and the new piece added on


And this DS420 had a 1981 Kerry reg,was ran by Gleasures of tralee,but i think it was an import at some stage.

junkyard

The first two look like they were built by Hugo Drew, I had a Zodiac just like the one in your photo and a local undertaker had an identical Granada mark 1 hearse. The newer looks like a John Pierse built hearse, although it could be a Fergus Quinn. DIE222 looks like a home-made conversion, the DS420 is a Stratton or McNeillie (same company anyway)

peltor

the third one is built by john pierce,i remember it as a car after bringing it to johns yard wit the consaw ticking over waiting to be cut,will ask him if he has any old photos

junkyard

That would be great thanks, he's built some fine hearses over the years. Some photos would be great too.

carchaeologist

Thanks peltor,i would appriciate that too.

carchaeologist

As already posted in another thread,wonder who built this one!


http://cgi.ebay.ie/Classic-Austin-18-Hearse_W0QQitemZ120378851355QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item120378851355
And remember the 30s Dodge in irish vintage a few months back,think it was in Galway.

junkyard

Were you involved in building hearses yourself peltor? Here's a picture of my Daimler Majestic hearse. Lots of work to do but well worth it in the end.

L-M

Lads I must admit, I didn't know there was a scene for hearses (until recently). Must keep an eye on the thread, it's interesting me for some reason lol!

I'm sure all of ye know the lad out the Tipperary road with excessive amounts of old hearses parked in his drive.

carchaeologist

And some wrecked ones.. http://members.tripod.com/rollingstart/hearses/index.htm

This one was called a Ford Dorset,apparently it was a one of a kind built using a Ford Transit chassis,if you look closely you can see it had Transit side doors too,it was an enormous thing that had space for something like four coffins.There is more info on it some where,cant find the site at the moment though
http://members.tripod.com/rollingstart/hearses/image19.htm

carchaeologist

Coachbuilding has a long history which probably came to a peak with the hand built automobiles of the early 20th century. Many early cars were little more than horseless carriages right into the 1920’s, The scope for coachbuilt vehicles was enormous. However, with the advent of mass production of cars coachbuilding took a back seat, relegated to specialist vehicles, buses and commercial vehicle bodies.
However, one area of the automobile sector where coachbuilding survived and has seen a renaissance of sorts is in the development of limousines and hearses. Formerly the preserve of names such as Rolls Royce, Bentley and Daimler, with vehicles bodied by Mulliner and Park Ward amongst others, increased demand for limousines and hearses to serve the British Isles funeral profession has seen the market grow to the point where it can accommodate both these established brands and new imported ones.

Manufacturers now active here include Coleman Milne, Wilcox, MacNeillie, Startin and Coway to name but a few, with Fearghas Quinn in Co. Antrim across the Irish Sea and Duffy in Eire proper south of the border. However, hearse and limousine building is not exclusively a UK craft, and given the finite size of some home markets it comes as no surprise to find many continental coachbuilders actively selling across national boundaries. So alongside Binz GmbH, we now have companies such as Pollman Karosserie, Rappold Karosserie and Welsch in Germany, Blaugaum in Spain, and Pilato in Italy.

All of these firms produce European style limousines and sometimes hearses too. However, the ostentatiousness of the New World cannot be ignored, and the UK market today is flooded with American limousines from companies such as the Eagle Coach Company and Krystal to name but two.

Of the ‘old-school’ UK coachbuilders, Coleman Milne was founded in 1953 by Roderick Milne and his partner, John Coleman. Initially the Company built horseboxes but quickly moved into the development of limousines and funeral hearses. Today, after several changes of ownership, including bus builders Plaxton, the company is now under the holding of Woodall Nicholson Limited. Woodall Nicholson itself being one of the original inter-war coachbuilders, and one of the key manufacturers of the Daimler DS420 hearse.

Links to an earlier era also underpin Wilcox, is another of the current suppliers of hearses and limousines. Wilcox supplies vehicles manufactured by another illustrious name in coachbuilding, Eagle Specialist Vehicles, not to be confused with the American manufacturer Eagle Coach Company.

To make things more confusing, the Wilcox name is also borne by Wilcox Coachbuilders, manufacturers of horseboxes and livestock trailers – though the two are completely separate companies. Wilcox offers a range of Daimler, Vauxhall & Jaguar hearses and limousines.

Tracing the history of some of these business can be fascinating. Take the Birmingham firm of Thomas Startin Ltd. It was a long-standing Austin (and Rover) dealer, but the company also had a commercial coachbuilding arm. Originally established in 1840, its coachbuilding output was by the 1970s concentrated on hearses. Their main business consisting then of producing a couple of designs based on the Daimler DS420, although they had previously converted a small number of Austin FL2s. In the late 1980s Startins turned their attention to the Rover 800, producing matching limousine and hearse conversions at their new premises in the Witton area of Birmingham.

But by the end of the 1990s Startins' coachbuilding division had been bought by S MacNeillie & Son, specialists in the armour protection market. MacNeillie transferred production of the 800 based vehicles to their own premises at Walsall in the West Midlands. MacNeillie in turn has been in the coachbuilding business for over 85 years and the company covers a whole range of products from police conversions to minibuses.

But as safety and emissions legislation, concerns over product liability and customer expectations work towards making the automobile ever-more sophisticated, is there room for the traditional coachbuilder’s art any more? For the answer, we have perhaps to look at what is going on at one of the newer brands on the UK market, Binz UK Ltd.

BINZ & Co. Coachworks in Lorch/Germany was founded by Michael Binz in 1936. Today BINZ is synonymous for first class innovative special purpose vehicles - from rescue vehicles to stretched limousines. Companies like Daimler AG, Volkswagen and others rely on the BINZ’ know-how and closely cooperate with the company.

BINZ engineers transform good automobiles into even better ones. By extending, enlarging and creating new designs or installing special purpose equipment they create extended limousines which are unparalleled the world over. Due to intelligently organized production processes which are documented in detail, expertly taken care of and stringently controlled, BINZ not only holds DIN EN ISO 9001 certification, but also the most prestigious VDA 6.1; a quality standard used by some large main stream motor vehicle manufacturers, and especially in this case :- Mercedes-Benz (Daimler AG).

By maintaining a widespread sales network it is possible to deliver BINZ ‘Made in Germany’ quality products directly to their customers on all five continents. Limousine services, car rentals or government representatives can be sure to find what they are looking for with Binz.

Three essentials determine the BINZ view of the future: First of all, permanent improvement of product quality and safety parameters of rescue vehicles and stretch limousines. Secondly, striving for continuity and positive development of the business, and last but not least, to keep on building special purpose automobiles with top-level technology.

In the British Isles, Binz products are marketed by Binz UK, previously distributors of a long line of Volvo authorised and fully Type Approved Volvo limousines and hearses. Though starting out with the same working practices and design methods that were then commonplace in the coachbuilding industry in the late 1970s, the company progressively embraced newer technologies in both design and manufacture, in order to guarantee the engineering integrity of each new generation of vehicles.

Although a new company Nilsson S.E with different ownership & management has lead to the re-appearance of the Volvo S80 based funeral vehicles - the product currently available to the funeral market has no Volvo produced heavy duty chassis or direct product support and is not connected with Nilsson UK (Peter Smith & family) who continue to support the original official products which were sold into the UK funeral market over a 20 year period.
http://www.binzuk.com/coachbuilding_heritage.htm

peltor

junkyard wrote: »

Were you involved in building hearses yourself peltor? Here's a picture of my Daimler Majestic hearse. Lots of work to do but well worth it in the end.

No but a family of undertakers by trade !!

carchaeologist

peltor wrote: »

No but a family of undertakers by trade !!

Any pics/info/regs of previous machinery?
These versions of the MK1 Granada seem to have been quite popular back in the day,i must scan a few pics in of one or two iv seen before.I like the way the original Granada rear end was worked into the design.



This is a MK2 Granada converted by Woodhall Nicholson,the work that went into the building of this one was amazing,virtually everything from the base of the screen pillars was newly built from what i was guessing was ash,or a similar hard wood,aluminium roof and side panelling.See how the doors were raised too and new glass installed.It had seating for four.
The only thing that looked anyway cheap was the fact they used MK2 Escort rear light lenses,it didnt cut it:p.It also had a type of hydraulic rear suspension that could be operated from the back door.
How much did these things cost when new over and above the cost of buying the donor car....

carchaeologist

And to lighten the mood...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImOS-7vWLWA

:D

peltor

I love it i love it i love it,such a pity most new hearses are Fwd except merc of course,hhmmm lookin to build on a lexus 450 next wonder would it drift,def lightens the mood,still laughin

carchaeologist

Another irish one...

Reg is March 1976

junkyard

carchaeologist wrote: »

Another irish one...

Reg is March 1976

I'm sure that hearse was in the showgrounds in Cork a few years ago, one of the storemen in CAB owned it and offered it to me, it was in good condition then.

carchaeologist

junkyard wrote: »

I'm sure that hearse was in the showgrounds in Cork a few years ago, one of the storemen in CAB owned it and offered it to me, it was in good condition then.

I would nearly bet it has been banger raced now.I saw it on a banger site.

junkyard

carchaeologist wrote: »

I would nearly bet it has been banger raced now.I saw it on a banger site.

Those f*ckers have wrecked some beautiful hearses over the years. It takes me back a few years ago I found a Vanden Plas 4 litre R hearse in a yard in Fermoy and when I went in to enquire about it the owner told be it was going to be banger raced that weekend and preceeded to break the windows as I stood there admiring it, you can imagine the mentality your dealing with here, this hearse was early 60's and in mint condition with a Rolls Royce engine and I offered to pay him well for it, f*cking idiots the lot of them.:mad: It's fair enough if the hearse is rotten and any good parts are salvaged.

carchaeologist

junkyard wrote: »

Those f*ckers have wrecked some beautiful hearses over the years. It takes me back a few years ago I found a Vanden Plas 4 litre R hearse in a yard in Fermoy and when I went in to enquire about it the owner told be it was going to be banger raced that weekend and preceeded to break the windows as I stood there admiring it, you can imagine the mentality your dealing with here, this hearse was early 60's and in mint condition with a Rolls Royce engine and I offered to pay him well for it, f*cking idiots the lot of them.:mad: It's fair enough if the hearse is rotten and any good parts are salvaged.

Yes..alot of rare and unusual stuff has gone that way,and its not money,its the glory of wrecking something rare.
Must have gone to england,havnt heard of a 4litre R getting raced here.A good share of mk1 and 2 Granadas were destroyed in rosegreen,and a Ds420 or two,but nothing very unusual that i can think of offhand.
To go slightly off topic...
There was a shadow raced..

And an irish Mk1 Granada.

carchaeologist

Were any DS420s converted by irish coachbuilders,though were they all factory built maybe??

junkyard

No DS420 hearses were factory built, the chassis and cab, so to speak, were sold to coachbuilders such as Strattons, MacNeillies and a few others and built to their own designs. If you look closely some have lower roof lines than others and you'll see the different designs quite clearly after a little while. Here's a Mercedes 600 being banger raced, f*ckers should be shot!!! And a Dinky Zodiac hearse!

G Luxel

Did any undertaker in Ireland own a hearse like this? American built Cadillac?



Thought you might be interested to know that there was a unique Rover P5B hearse in a commercial yard in Sligo. Its the only known Rover P5B hearse ever built. Another very unusual hearse I spotted a few years ago was a Ford Cortina Mk111 hearse.

junkyard

G Luxel wrote: »

Did any undertaker in Ireland own a hearse like this? American built Cadillac?



Thought you might be interested to know that there was a unique Rover P5B hearse in a commercial yard in Sligo. Its the only known Rover P5B hearse ever built. Another very unusual hearse I spotted a few years ago was a Ford Cortina Mk111 hearse.

I remember seeing a photo of a Rover P5B hearse in a fiels somewhere in Ireland in the discovered pages of an English classic car mag a few years ago. There was another one in England caught fire recently on the way to a show, not sure if it was a write off. Some pub had a hearse like your one in Dublin a few years ago, used it as a delivery wagon I think.

carchaeologist

I know where there is a hearse based on a MK5 Cortina P100,its an 84,built by a crowd called Canterbury.Must try and get pics.

junkyard

carchaeologist wrote: »

I know where there is a hearse based on a MK5 Cortina P100,its an 84,built by a crowd called Canterbury.Must try and get pics.

Like this one? It's a bit of a misfit of a thing tbh, there was one based on a Mazda pick-up around Limerick for a while, hidious looking thing.

Kevin_Herron

A guy I know has a series 1 XJ6 hearse!

It was sold at one of the classic car auctions in Freshford years ago.

carchaeologist

Aye,thats her,right down to the hubcaps,yes,quite an awkward looking thing,the rear end was lenghthened to take the extra length for the coffin and the height didnt suit the lines of the car.2litre pinto and standard 4 speed manual box,must have been hard trying to keep at crawling speeds when at work.

carchaeologist

Kevin_Herron wrote: »

A guy I know has a series 1 XJ6 hearse!

It was sold at one of the classic car auctions in Freshford years ago.

Any pics kevin,that sounds interesting(well,to me and junky anyway:p)

carchaeologist

1976 Holden Statesman DeVille(In NZ)Very long aint it!!

junkyard

Kevin_Herron wrote: »

A guy I know has a series 1 XJ6 hearse!

It was sold at one of the classic car auctions in Freshford years ago.

I remember seeing that one there, a fairly crude looking one with lovely plastic flowers in the back, i think I remember seeing photos of it in a classic car mag too somewhere.

galwaytt

We've got an '80's Granada hearse in the yard at work, doing nothing. What's with the pump-up seats ?

2cv

I'd love an old hearse... i'd use it to get to work, just to freak out my colleagues :-)

G Luxel

There is or was a collector of hearses in Tipperary town and his collection was featured in Practical Classics about ten years ago.
Last week, at a scrapyard gate entrance in Co Waterford was a 92 Rover 800 hearse with Woodall Nicholson bodywork.
Even more unusual, about 10 years ago, was an Austin A60 Cambridge hearse with chains in the interior......
In West Cork, there is an early Opel Rekord hearse lying in a garage which appears not to be have been used for a few years. The interior is full of junk

carchaeologist

G Luxel wrote: »

There is or was a collector of hearses in Tipperary town and his collection was featured in Practical Classics about ten years ago.

Yes,he always has a big selection of limos and hearses at his yard anytime iv driven past.

Last week, at a scrapyard gate entrance in Co Waterford was a 92 Rover 800 hearse with Woodall Nicholson bodywork.

Wonder was it being scrapped,seems quite new still?

Even more unusual, about 10 years ago, was an Austin A60 Cambridge hearse with chains in the interior......

How do you mean?
http://www.atozofbangerracing.co.uk/Austin/A60Hearse/index.html

In West Cork, there is an early Opel Rekord hearse lying in a garage which appears not to be have been used for a few years. The interior is full of junk

There was one of these raced in a demolition derby in rosegreen about 16 years back,the very same version as this(except it was a hearse)

junkyard

There was an Opel like this one with the bubble back window used as a hearse up to about ten years ago in Fermoy and I remember seeing another one in Nugents scrapyard in Lismore a few years ago too, it could have been the same one.

carchaeologist

An unusual one..

Mk3 escort...???:eek:

And a modified one(59 chevy impala)

And the Austin Princess..

I like the way the rear lights have been recycled..

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leichenwagen.de/bilder/Princess763.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hearse.de/pics8.htm&usg=__mB1zcCRo8dLKfxzN9gRg_eRhvjA=&h=342&w=443&sz=56&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=-vUMqAKyGZPsfM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dirish%2Bhearse%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4FUJC_en-GBIE287IE287%26sa%3DN
And more info on others here..
http://www.hearse.de/pics.htm

junkyard

Here are a few more.

junkyard

And some more...........

carchaeologist

Mk4 Ford Zephyr,raced in rosegreen 1994

Mk1 granada GXL,July 2001,was in rosegreen,but not sure why,i reckon it was being sold on to another racer


Mk2 Granada December 2004

Mk1 Granada,April 1998


Mk4 Zephyr,April 1998

Mazda B200(i think)2004

Mk2 Granada,December 2004

carchaeologist

Mk2 Granada 2005

Mk2 Granada 2005

Mk2 Granada 2004

MK2 Granada 2004

Mk1 Granada 2003


Daimler DS420 1999


MK2 Granada minster,see the longer rear doors.

junkyard

Ffs, that's depressing, the Mazda looks like the one that was in Limerick. It's a pity so few people are interested in old hearses here, some of them are works of art.

carchaeologist

MK1 Granada 2004

carchaeologist

Any idea on the builders of any of the above junkyard?

carchaeologist

For anyone who is interested...which i doubt...:p



The minster was Coleman milnes shortest limousine,it had longer rear doors/wheelbase(10" stretch i think)and a diversion/bulkhead.
You would hardly spot it,but it must have been a nice bit of work for them to build first day as the entire car had to be cut.


Grosvenor,based on the coupe

Then there was this version,also Grosvenor or Dorchester,depending on spec,with the Grosvenor being the most expensive.
The names carried over to the MK2 range

carchaeologist

The Vauxhall Quest based on the carlton(Rekord)

Quest II

Eagle statesman(senator)

Eagle statesman(omega)

Coleman Milne Warwick(montego....)

Eagle Daimler 4.0

Coleman Milne Jag

Coleman Milne Saab 9000

Rover 75,built by mcneilies

Range rover built by Jankel

Rapport Excelsior

Lexus LS400 by Jankel

Jankel Presidential

Jankel Royale 46 inches longer and 6 inches higher than the regular car

Jankel Antibies,10" stretch behind the rear doors.

carchaeologist

Some more....
Built by Trasco

Merc SEC

Built by ABC

And the 6 door

W123 by GFG

and another type

Treser Largo(audi200)

---

Citroen DS

Saab


Polski fiat 125P

Volvo 245 transfer

Volvo 960 Royale(15"stretch)

Volvo 960

Volvo 264 Te

carchaeologist

Lombardi President(fiat2300)

Also availible in 1800 and 1500 Flavours

Just one version of this was made,it was delivered to the vatican,but not used by the pope.

It had either a convertible top,or plexiglass hardtop

Two more citroens

Based on the 15CV

carchaeologist

And one for corktina..a Taunus:D

G Luxel

carchaeologist wrote: »

G Luxel wrote: »

Yes,he always has a big selection of limos and hearses at his yard anytime iv driven past.

Wonder was it being scrapped,seems quite new still?

bear in mind it was only last week but it was parked outside Nugents scrapyard so maybe it is/was at journeys end:P

The Opel Rekord I spotted was a B, not the C as in the picture, but there are
a few of those C rekords with Bubble rear screens. The reg of the Fermoy car
was KIN 325. It was sold around 2002 to a collector but no idea where it went.

Finally the Cambridge is the same as the picture. It was based in Mitchelstown and also in the same area was a Vauxhall Cresta/Viscount from the late 60s. They were both advertised for sale about 10 years ago.