Hot2def and Léan - You're in the well!

Star Lord

Hot2def and Léan are two members of our little community here that are actually in the piercing and tattooing industry respectively!

This thread is for genuine serious questions that you would like to ask of our experts! So drop a couple of questions down the well to them!

My questions to both of you:

1) Is there anything that you have done an 180 change of opinion on since starting working?

2) What in particular gives you the biggest job satisfaction?

Note: - While a sense of humour is always accepted here, any messing/piss taking/insulting will not be tolerated.
Anything stated is the opinion of the respondees, so no sniping either

hot2def

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

1) Is there anything that you have done an 180 change of opinion on since starting working?

2) What in particular gives you the biggest job satisfaction?

1) I used to think tattooing was Art, with a capital A. Now I think it is occasionally art, but more a craft than a "fine art", because you realistically be working to a brief, not doing whatever you feel like as an artist. I also wish more tattooists paid attention to that...


2)I can tune the world out completely when I tattoo. There is nothing other that what I am doing. Its so high stress, that it dulls everything else.


IMHO

Will

hot2def & lean - maybe a lil background about yourselves would be interesting.

hot2def - I know on the tattoo site you've linked before you started out as a grafitti artist. How much has this affected your style in your work?

hot2def & lean - What do you think of all the rock star attitudes out there in the industry? Who do you think is to blame (for want of a better word) the artists themselves, or the clients who just accept it and carry on anyway?

Hellrazer

Heres one for you hot2def.

Do you think shows like Miami ink etc are good or bad for tattooing?

Gauge

for hot2def:

How often would you get people coming in looking to get copies of other peoples tattoos/designs without permission, and how do you deal with it?

blackbox1

This maybe your thoughts. Not all of us feel the same way. The more years you put in the easier it gets. You become more confident with your work. People seek you out for your style. Portfolios ,conventions,social networking and tattoo magazines are a great way to promote yourself. If someone works in a flash studio/street shop then your under pressure to make money for the owner and it's not really about art.

Will

Blackbox1 - hot2def clearly stated they were her own opinions. I'm presuming you're in the business. If you would like to take part that is great, but please don't derail a thread. We can set up another thread for you in time if you would like where you can air your own views.

Star Lord

Note at the top edited in light of blackbox1s post

Diceicle

Hot2def: Do you feel ethically obliged to advise people on placement of tattoos? Is it something that you feel artists consider when a 'tattoo noob' approaches them?

hot2def

blackbox1 wrote: »

This maybe your thoughts. Not all of us feel the same way. The more years you put in the easier it gets. You become more confident with your work. People seek you out for your style. Portfolios ,conventions,social networking and tattoo magazines are a great way to promote yourself. If someone works in a flash studio/street shop then your under pressure to make money for the owner and it's not really about art.

maybe those are your thoughts - but not all of "us" feel the same way.


Its nothing to do with how many years I have/haven't been working - so don't pull that. My opinion on this comes from formal training in fine art. Tattooing is rarely fine art in the sense that modern/post modern art is, becuase no matter what happens - no CUSTOMER is ever a blank canvas. Even if they seek you out for your work, not even if they say "I love your work do whatever". You still have to be mindful that someone else is going to live with your artistic decisions. Its not all about you.


Now, I say tattooing is more a craft - and its a compliment. Any eejit can use a handy cam to flim a blurry two mintues of the back of a bus - and thats post modern art. Crafts have traditions, conventions, apprenticeships, established techniques, peers and practitioners working on common themes. Art has these less frequently, and almost not at all atm,,, with all the focus placed upon celeb artists and their personal view of life. I hope tattooing doesn't slide far in that direction.

hot2def

Will wrote: »

hot2def & lean - maybe a lil background about yourselves would be interesting.

hot2def - I know on the tattoo site you've linked before you started out as a grafitti artist. How much has this affected your style in your work?

hot2def & lean - What do you think of all the rock star attitudes out there in the industry? Who do you think is to blame (for want of a better word) the artists themselves, or the clients who just accept it and carry on anyway?

background:
I'm a 27 year old American ex-pat. I went to a private girls school, did a year of Classical Studies and Philosophy in Trinity, before leaving to study Fine Art in DIT. I like Sci-Fi, a bit of metal and lots of 60s/70s psychedelia. I like hamsters.

I used to work in celestial ring. I expect I have met most of you at some point, either there or in Fibbers.



as a graffiti writer:
I started writing graffiti 12 years ago. I don't really know how much its influenced my tattooing - it definitely has not imparted that twisted nu-skool look that people expect of graffiti writers. My graffiti is pretty off beat. In fact, an older writer in Belfast pointed out to me a few weeks ago that insteadof the usual pattern of a writer making graffiti influenced tattoos, I've been a tattooist making tattoo influenced graffiti.


re rockstars:
I thinkI have made my views on this clear repeatedly, possibly in this thread I think it is thoroughly innappropriate in this industry. And tattooists/customers play into it too much

hot2def

Hellrazer wrote: »

Heres one for you hot2def.

Do you think shows like Miami ink etc are good or bad for tattooing?

I get crazy sick of people expecting that tattooist wil draw up a half sleeve in 15 minutes while they wait, becuase they don't realise that the show is staged/edited.


I do like how it shows people the range of sizes/styles/colors/themes available to them.

So good, I suppose, if annoying.

hot2def

Gauge wrote: »

for hot2def:

How often would you get people coming in looking to get copies of other peoples tattoos/designs without permission, and how do you deal with it?

All the time.

I flat won't do it. I am happy to say to people that its the wrong thing to do. I explain that having a custom tattoo draw costs nothing extra. I also explain that, in addition to stealing this person's tattoo, they should bear in mind that perhaps hundreds of other people worldwide may have done the same thing.


I have, in the past, done the beckham angel. I'd rather not do it again

Raze_them_all

Hot2def : whats the piece you've most loved so far done by yourself and done by another?

Lean Do you get embarrassed doing genital piercings? What is your favourite piercing to do/see?

hot2def

Diceicle wrote: »

Hot2def: Do you feel ethically obliged to advise people on placement of tattoos? Is it something that you feel artists consider when a 'tattoo noob' approaches them?

Sure. I won't do hands, face, fingers, front or sides of the neck.

I might be moved to do sides of the neck, if the person is 30+ and already has work there.

You'd be suprised how often someone gets in my face about it, about how they are a customer and they can get whatever they like. they are so busy getting self-righteous that they don't see me turning away money on ethical grounds - I am just a spoil sport.

I also tell people all the time that the piece in question may not fit the body part they choose. Its no big deal, usually just needs tweaking.

shenanigans1982

Hot2Def....do you feel the tattoo industry is too hard to break into in this country?

hot2def

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Hot2Def....do you feel the tattoo industry is too hard to break into in this country?

no. In fact, I think its too easy. There are people tattooing all over the country with no training of any sort. There is no regulation at all in Ireland, you could open a shop tomorrow if you wanted to.


Most of the people who tell me how hard it is to get into are in their late teens. Its like any career job, you should build up the best CV possible whilst aiming for a position. finish school, go to college, take courses, be a receptionist. Don't expect to get a position right away.

blackbox1

I'm sorry if you have taken offence. As i did not mean that you we're inexperienced. Just you had posted that it was highly stressful. And was only explaining that it does get easier.
Sorry

hot2def wrote: »

maybe those are your thoughts - but not all of "us" feel the same way.


Its nothing to do with how many years I have/haven't been working - so don't pull that. My opinion on this comes from formal training in fine art. Tattooing is rarely fine art in the sense that modern/post modern art is, becuase no matter what happens - no CUSTOMER is ever a blank canvas. Even if they seek you out for your work, not even if they say "I love your work do whatever". You still have to be mindful that someone else is going to live with your artistic decisions. Its not all about you.


Now, I say tattooing is more a craft - and its a compliment. Any eejit can use a handy cam to flim a blurry two mintues of the back of a bus - and thats post modern art. Crafts have traditions, conventions, apprenticeships, established techniques, peers and practitioners working on common themes. Art has these less frequently, and almost not at all atm,,, with all the focus placed upon celeb artists and their personal view of life. I hope tattooing doesn't slide far in that direction.

hot2def

blackbox1 wrote: »

I'm sorry if you have taken offence. As i did not mean that you we're inexperienced. Just you had posted that it was highly stressful. And was only explaining that it does get easier.
Sorry

I didn't realise that. cool.


But I doubt it will get any easier for me personally. I am a highly strung person. High stress is my natural state. If I were a hamster, it would be necessary to stick a picture of a snake facing into my cage - just to kep me functioning at my optimum level.

shenanigans1982

hot2def wrote: »

There are people tattooing all over the country with no training of any sort.

But wouldn't that be because its so hard to properly get involved in tattooing? (Actually should have phrased the initial question better).

Most tattooists I have talked to have told me how they had to train abroad or became tattooists because of family members. For the ordinary person who wants to get involved and has absolutley no connections the chance of getting training is almost zero leaving them no option but to pursue it through their own way.

How do you feel about people who start out like this?...do you feel it shouldn't be allowed or is it a nessacery step on the road to becoming a tattooist?

hot2def

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

But wouldn't that be because its so hard to properly get involved in tattooing? (Actually should have phrased the initial question better).

Most tattooists I have talked to have told me how they had to train abroad or became tattooists because of family members. For the ordinary person who wants to get involved and has absolutley no connections the chance of getting training is almost zero leaving them no option but to pursue it through their own way.

How do you feel about people who start out like this?...do you feel it shouldn't be allowed or is it a nessacery step on the road to becoming a tattooist?

I really think an apprenticeship is the way to go. I amn't related to anyone involved in the industry. I am very patient though.

the_syco

hot2def: how long were you scratching before you started tattooing? Also, where you scrathing yourself, pig skin, or what? A few I know started by scrathing themselves, before doing a few friends.

hot2def

I tattooed a few oranges.


I was a full year into my apprenticeship before I tattooed myself. I was very careful to keep within the realms of what I could do without ruining it.

I still have the tattoos - I wouldn't cover them. I don't know if I would describe them as scratches - I have seen worse from commercial tattooist.

Will

Thanks for answering the questions thus far

Mellor

To both of you.

How open are you to somebody coming to you with a Design, and I mean a reasonable complete design that you can put your style on as opposed to ideas and images.
Do you feel its a compliment that a person chose you to carry out their design, or do you feel restricted by such a tight brief.

Léan

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

1) Is there anything that you have done an 180 change of opinion on since starting working?

2) What in particular gives you the biggest job satisfaction?

Hi di ho.

1). Yes.

Tongues are gross and people don't stick them out far enough (well, mostly people don't stick them out far enough).

2). The finished product Best buzz is when everything goes perfectly (i.e. all marked up perfectly and no messing around with jewellery) and the look on someones face when they see their new piercing

Will wrote: »

hot2def & lean - maybe a lil background about yourselves would be interesting.

hot2def & lean - What do you think of all the rock star attitudes out there in the industry? Who do you think is to blame (for want of a better word) the artists themselves, or the clients who just accept it and carry on anyway?

I'm probably one of the very lucky cases around here.
I did my Leaving Certificate last year and was very very lucky enough to be taken on under a local studio in the area and train under a great piercer. I started last June and have been there since then

I'm in UCC studying Music and Arts, I play piano too (for the last 12 years or so). Huuuge interest in music of all sorts.

I'm very lucky in that i'm still able to do piercing while in College .


As regards to the rockstar thing, can't say i've come across many so I can't really say. I do know of one or two people though that think they know more then actual piercers or tattooists that have been in years in business and it's a head wreck to try and get through to them.
Really annoying also are young kids who have inflated opinions about their knowledge about piercing (learning BME off by heart) and think they know better... I could really go off on a rant about this so i'll stop

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Lean Do you get embarrassed doing genital piercings? What is your favourite piercing to do/see?

I'm yet to do a genital piercing . Although i've witnessed some. So i'l get back to you with that. Can't say many people come in asking for them in my experience anyway. Think people are afraid.

I don't really know if you could class it as a piercing per-say, but I loooove watching micro dermals being done, they're so interesting!

My favourite piercing to do is probably a surface piercing atm (except the marking, that's a balls tbh xD).

hot2def

Mellor wrote: »

To both of you.

How open are you to somebody coming to you with a Design, and I mean a reasonable complete design that you can put your style on as opposed to ideas and images.
Do you feel its a compliment that a person chose you to carry out their design, or do you feel restricted by such a tight brief.

Either way is fine. I have no problem with working to a tight brief. However, it very rarely happens that a customer would come in with a completed (or near complete) design they drew themselves. and those that do, are rarely to a standard that would be a decent tattoo. In that case, I tell them as much, and re-draw the design. Its not that anything is really removed or added, its correcting proportions/curves/lines/perspective. They can still see that its the design they made - just drafted better.


More frequently, people come in with a verbal description of what they want - I go off and get reference material and put something together. And alter it as many times an necessary to get it as they want.

FTA69

hot2def wrote: »

Sure. I won't do hands, face, fingers, front or sides of the neck.

Do you have a problem doing those areas full stop or does it depend of the customer?

Also, do you have issues doing touch-ups on other tattooists work?

hot2def

FTA69 wrote: »

Do you have a problem doing those areas full stop or does it depend of the customer?

Also, do you have issues doing touch-ups on other tattooists work?

i have a problem doing those areas full stop. I would prefer to impose a blanket ban on doing them myself altogether, rather that get involved in any grey areas pressure to make exceptions for friends or customers who see themselves as "in the know". Like I said, I might make exceptions for sides of the neck, if the area is already tattooed. Maybe.


And no, I have no problem touching up other tattooists work. why would I?

Dancor

hot2def: Do you have a website or SN site with some of your work?
I would love to see it

hot2def

http://www.wickedskin.ie/artistserinkirk.html



I would post a few pieces, but I don't want to get in trouble for advertising on boards...

Sweenox

hot2def: Do you get many people coming to the studio asking you for an apprenticeship?

FTA69

hot2def wrote: »

i have a problem doing those areas full stop. I would prefer to impose a blanket ban on doing them myself altogether, rather that get involved in any grey areas pressure to make exceptions for friends or customers who see themselves as "in the know". Like I said, I might make exceptions for sides of the neck, if the area is already tattooed. Maybe.

Why is that though? For instance many Maori elders get a moko done on their face for cultural reasons etc; likewise I've met a few tattooists which would have no problems doing hands or neck (provided the customer isn't very young)

And no, I have no problem touching up other tattooists work. why would I?

I've no idea, but I've had one tattooist tell me he doesn't like working on any other artists tattoo for whatever reason.

hot2def

FTA69 wrote: »

hot2def wrote: »

Why is that though? For instance many Maori elders get a moko done on their face for cultural reasons etc; likewise I've met a few tattooists which would have no problems doing hands or neck (provided the customer isn't very young)



I've no idea, but I've had one tattooist tell me he doesn't like working on any other artists tattoo for whatever reason.

Well, AFAIK, a hefty chunk of the brain is dedicated to recognising and reading faces, and we don't really understand how it works. Its a whole different thing to tattooing anywhere else - even tattooed people will never see you the same. I believe it will hamper ones ability to relate to other human beings. I respect other people's right to do what they want with their skin - but I do not want to be involved.

Perhaps if I were working in another place/time with a different client base, I might be swayed on the hands issue, but it hasn't happened to date.

And to compare afluent western urbanite's facial tattoos to Maori traditional tattoos is pointless, they are lightyears apart.



I have heard of tattooist refusing to work on other people's work, but I have no issue with it. the skin belongs to the customer, not the tattooist.

hot2def

Sweenox wrote: »

hot2def: Do you get many people coming to the studio asking you for an apprenticeship?

No, I don't get asked. Most customers assume I am the receptionist, probably because of my gender and stature.

A handful of particularly tactless customers have asked me am I dating the owner (in a few different shops I might add), or whether I am old enough to be tattooing :rolleyes:


A friend asked me to apprentice him. I refused.

Kersmash

@Hot2def: Have you or would you ever refuse to do a certain tattoo because it has your name and reputation attatched to it? For example if a customer wanted something stupid, silly, offensive, obscene etc. would you refuse to do it simply because you will be associated with that Tattoo?

hot2def

Kersmash wrote: »

@Hot2def: Have you or would you ever refuse to do a certain tattoo because it has your name and reputation attatched to it? For example if a customer wanted something stupid, silly, offensive, obscene etc. would you refuse to do it simply because you will be associated with that Tattoo?

I was once forced by circumstance to do a design i thought was a bad idea (and no, I won't say what it was). I will never let it happen again, I should have walked out.


I will not do racist or violently political. I try not to get too snobbish about things being silly or stupid - thats a matter of opinion usually. I think the blink182 logo is a stupid tattoo - but I have a portrait of David Gilmour from Pink Floyd so.....


but as a rule, if I amn't comfortable with something, i amn't doing it. end of. I have to live with it too.

the_syco

Hot2def: this is a general question, not aimed at you, but I'd prefer to get an answer from yourself rather than a random boardsie.

If I have a tattoo in mind, should I get it done now, or wait until my arm is built a bit (muscle wise)? Do tattoos on the elbow stretch well, or not? I'd be putting two specific types of wing side by side, if that makes a difference.

hot2def

I don't think anything will really change about your elbow if you bulk up - that will realy be above and below the joint.


the elbow proper is not a great spot for heavy coverage - it'll get patchy very easily. Depends on placement.

Toots

What about the opposite, skin shrinking? I've a tattoo I'd love to get across my lower back, but I plan on losing a good bit of weight for my wedding, so would I be better off waiting til the weight is gone in case it looks all weird?

hot2def

you'd want to be losing a phenomenal amount of weight for that to become an issue, i think. i have never seen an example of a tattoo distorted by weight loss myself. I think you have to lose so much wieght (and, for that matter, have that much weight to lose at all...) that you had visible excess hanging flesh (gross, but you know what I mean...).

My own weight has yoyoed 4 stone since first getting tattooed, without any visible effect on my own tattoos. if you are worried, avoid the lower stomach, you'll be grand.


edit, that first tattoo i got was on my lower back, as it happens

Toots

Sweet thanks hot2def!! I am currently out of 'thanks' for the day, but as soon as I get more, there's one on it's way to you

edit: there we go!

Will

okie doke... hmm other questions

hot2def - how do you see the industry evolving? The tattoo gun (from what I know) hasn't really changed since it's original design way back when, there is a new design out, some electrical one. Think it will last?

Kanji, tribal, stars - what's the next big tattooing fad?

Léan - next big piercing development? skin divers? microdermals?

hot2def

Will wrote: »

okie doke... hmm other questions

hot2def - how do you see the industry evolving? The tattoo gun (from what I know) hasn't really changed since it's original design way back when, there is a new design out, some electrical one. Think it will last?

Kanji, tribal, stars - what's the next big tattooing fad?

While the design of tatoo machines hasn't changed a lot, the quality of the parts has skyrocketed since they were originally invented. This means a much greater level of adjustment and fine tuning is possible.
I assume you are refering to those little pneumatic machines. I personally don't like them, I find them way too light. Their website and ads boast that there is no maintainence or adjusting required. I can't see how a tattoo machine you cannot adjust you the was you work can be a good thing...

but thats just me.

I hope the next big thing here is american neo traditional, its a big thing over the water, and its lovely. knowing my luck though, it'll be that hideous abstract stuff they like in france. ack

Star Lord

Hot2def: What would you say would be the styles that you are not so good at, and how do you strive to improve in those areas? Do you ever get frustrated with designs/design requests that people come to you with?

Léan: Are there any piercings that you particularly hate doing, or refuse to do, and if so, what are the reasons? Do you ever have to deal with customers with an attitude because you refuse to pierce them?

hot2def

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Hot2def : whats the piece you've most loved so far done by yourself and done by another?

by myself atm


by someone else, something by Kore Flatmo, I couldn't find a great deal online.

dancor wrote: »

hot2def: Do you have a website or SN site with some of your work?
I would love to see it

I got the go-ahead (cheers will)

hot2def

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Hot2def: What would you say would be the styles that you are not so good at, and how do you strive to improve in those areas? Do you ever get frustrated with designs/design requests that people come to you with?

I have never done a portrait. I have no trouble drawing them, but I don't feel its time yet. I have seen a lot of appalling portraits. I do draw them a fair bit thugh, I'll know when it's time.

When I don't feel up to something, I recommend an artist to the customer, there's no shame in that.

I get frustrated all the time, either because I feel the customer isn't making the best use of the space, or because I can't quite capture what they are imagining in the design

Will

hot2def -Are you a talker when you tattoo or are you all out quiet and concentrating 100% on the job at hand?

lean and hot2def - how do you deal with people who are nervous? I suppose bedside manner comes with time and it develops. Any horror stories?

Hellrazer

hot2def wrote: »

I assume you are refering to those little pneumatic machines. I personally don't like them, I find them way too light. Their website and ads boast that there is no maintainence or adjusting required. I can't see how a tattoo machine you cannot adjust you the was you work can be a good thing...

but thats just me.

I hope the next big thing here is american neo traditional, its a big thing over the water, and its lovely. knowing my luck though, it'll be that hideous abstract stuff they like in france. ack

You ever try out the "neotat" machines?You know the linear ones that are supposedly fully clavable?

And yeah that American Neo-tat stuff is amazing.
That hideous abstract stuff your talking about wouldnt be by the likes of Waldi and Osa?I actually like it but a lot of people who Ive shown it to hate it.Suppose what I like about it is that theyre trying something new and different.

hot2def

Will wrote: »

hot2def -Are you a talker when you tattoo or are you all out quiet and concentrating 100% on the job at hand?

lean and hot2def - how do you deal with people who are nervous? I suppose bedside manner comes with time and it develops. Any horror stories?

I will not shut up. I am sort of like that anyway. I'll shut up if I get the impression that the customer is one of those "in the zone" people that doesn't speak at all while being tattooed - I'm like that myself when I get tattooed.


Everyone I tattoo is told that if they need to stop, at any point, all they have to do is tell me. Other that that, all I can do is try to engage people is fairly involved conversation to distract them, it usually works. I've had a off-beat sort of life, I have stories that can distract anyone.

I do have horror stories, but I couldn't repeat them. the customer is always mortified if they aren't well while being tattooed.

missannik

Lean and Hot2def- Where do you see yourself professionally in 5-10 years? Do you have any professional goals to achieve in that time frame?