Stronglifts Advanced Programme

AlphaMale 3OO

Hi everyone. Has anyone ever tried this programme? I've started it but when I input my stats into the spreadsheet it seems to get very heavy in week 4, e.g. the highest deadlifts I've ever done for 5 reps which is 202.5kg has to be done for 5x5!:eek: This seems completely ridiculous. I'm going to continue this programme but anyone have any tips from experience as to how you went about avoiding CNS burnout on this? Any help much appreciated.

kevpants

Rippetoe style thread on Mehdi Hadim anyone??

Seriously man, get a new program. That people keep referencing Stronglifts amazes me. Plus I think the guy who runs it sold me a dodgy watch on my hols in Turkey a few years back.

From what you're saying the program specifies you tain the deadlift for 3 weeks and in week 4 you deadlift more than you ever have... 25 times?

AlphaMale 3OO

kevpants wrote: »

From what you're saying the program specifies you tain the deadlift for 3 weeks and in week 4 you deadlift more than you ever have... 25 times?

No. It gradually rises. Just to clarify, its not getting me to do my 1 rep max 25 times, its getting me to do my 5 rep max 25 times. This isn't in the stratosphere in terms of difficulty for me, I'll give it a bash, but I'm just wondering if anyone else has done this programme (which I like for its conciseness) and ran into burnout difficulties. If so how did you manage it?

podge57

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

No. It gradually rises. Just to clarify, its not getting me to do my 1 rep max 25 times, its getting me to do my 5 rep max 25 times. This isn't in the stratosphere in terms of difficulty for me, I'll give it a bash, but I'm just wondering if anyone else has done this programme (which I like for its conciseness) and ran into burnout difficulties. If so how did you manage it?

im doing the bill starr version, where you ramp up to a 5rm for one set

i dont know why that programme is labelled as advanced, in general, newcomers will see good results by doing 5 sets of straight weight, but when you put up heavier numbers, i think burnout is inevitable

Hanley

From now on when anyone mentions Stronglifts this will be my standard response;

Who is Mehdi? Mehdi is author & founder of StrongLifts.com. He’s been training consistently since 10 years.

Best Lifts (all raw, no belt) @ 75kg - as at 1/1/09
* Deadlift: 170kg
* Box Squat: 135kg
* Box Front Squat: 130kg
* Bench Press: 100kg
* clean & press: 65kg

Why people listen to this guy like he's some sort of guru is beyond me.

AlphaMale 3OO

I never said he was a guru. I didn't even know who he was until tonight and I don't care who he is. I'm doing his programme because its structure and simplicity appeals to me and I want to challenge myself and bring my strength to the next level. Thats going to be tough come week 4. I don't really care what people think of the programme, all I was enquiring about was if people had done it and if so had they burnt out prematurely.

Baldie

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

I never said he was a guru. I didn't even know who he was until tonight and I don't care who he is. I'm doing his programme because its structure and simplicity appeals to me and I want to challenge myself and bring my strength to the next level. Thats going to be tough come week 4. I don't really care what people think of the programme, all I was enquiring about was if people had done it and if so had they burnt out prematurely.

I'm doing this workout also. I did it about 6 months ago and got great results. I started it again last week.

I weigh 82kg.

Currently I'm lifting:
Squat 100kg
Bench Press 80kg
Overhead Press 50kg
Deadlift 100

I recently hurt my back so I started off low on the deadlift to work up the strenght in my muscles.

I find this programme easy to follow as well. It's excellent for building up the lifting weight, and I don't giev two craps who Medhi is!

Sorry, i just noticed this thread is for the advanced programme, I'm doing the standard programme. I have it written now so I might as well leave it.

kevpants

You don't care who wrote the program?

What if it turned out to be my mam. Or worse, Mark Rippetoe!

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

You don't care who wrote the program?

What if it turned out to be my mam. Or worse, Mark Rippetoe!

Lol sure who cares who wrote it... People try those ghost written workouts in Flex all the time.

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote: »

Lol sure who cares who wrote it... People try those ghost written workouts in Flex all the time.

Thanks thats really constructive.

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

From now on when anyone mentions Stronglifts this will be my standard response;

Who is Mehdi? Mehdi is author & founder of StrongLifts.com. He’s been training consistently since 10 years.

Best Lifts (all raw, no belt) @ 75kg - as at 1/1/09
* Deadlift: 170kg
* Box Squat: 135kg
* Box Front Squat: 130kg
* Bench Press: 100kg
* clean & press: 65kg

Why people listen to this guy like he's some sort of guru is beyond me.

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

Thanks thats really constructive.

Thanks!!

Mikel

The programming aside, what is his technique instruction like?

kevpants

Mikel wrote: »

The programming aside, what is his technique instruction like?

I saw one of his deadlifts instruction which was "Always pull up and not back.." I stopped reading at that point.

Sangre

Does it really matter who wrote it if it gets results?

AlphaMale 3OO

Thats what I thought. I reckon I'll get huge gains from it, as I usually do on a strength phase but I'm just going to have to correctly manage my loading parameters and was looking for peoples input on this.

Mikel

Sangre wrote: »

Does it really matter who wrote it if it gets results?

It would matter to me if his technical instruction was flawed....
You'd lose a lot of those gains while out injured.

AlphaMale 3OO

Mikel wrote: »

It would matter to me if his technical instruction was flawed....
You'd lose a lot of those gains while out injured.

Why do you think I'd get injured? Obviously the loads jump up too much each week but this is to be approached with caution. People (not all) just criticise without offering a solution to the original problem. I dont give a sh1t what the guy who made the programme lifted, I like the look of this programme and I want to see if I can do well on it.

Mikel

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

Why do you think I'd get injured? Obviously the loads jump up too much each week but this is to be approached with caution. People (not all) just criticise without offering a solution to the original problem.

You could get injured IF his technical instruction was flawed, or at least be a whole lot more likely to

AlphaMale 3OO

Mikel wrote: »

You could get injured IF his technical instruction was flawed, or at least be a whole lot more likely to

So you said. Please elaborate.

Hanley

How can anyone trust someone to write a "strength" program when they can't even make themselves moderately strong?

pcworldsucks

I got bench up to 68kgs with this program. But once you start getting over 70kgs you will need stronger programs as this one is for intermidiates and once you get over 70 which is around bodyweight for most people you are advanced so need to change to a more advanced program. simple stuff really.

pcworldsucks

Hanley wrote: »

From now on when anyone mentions Stronglifts this will be my standard response;

Who is Mehdi? Mehdi is author & founder of StrongLifts.com. He’s been training consistently since 10 years.

Best Lifts (all raw, no belt) @ 75kg - as at 1/1/09
* Deadlift: 170kg
* Box Squat: 135kg
* Box Front Squat: 130kg
* Bench Press: 100kg
* clean & press: 65kg

Why people listen to this guy like he's some sort of guru is beyond me.

this is not mederately strong - this is top class. look at bench 100kg for 75kg bodyweight, that is serious strength, most pussys in the gym cant go over 60kg (I can do 76kg)...the stronglift program is good, i made some nice gains on it.. dont listen to the retards who give out about it without ever trying it.

itsallaboutheL

pcworldsucks wrote: »

this is not mederately strong - this is top class. look at bench 100kg for 75kg bodyweight, that is serious strength, most pussys in the gym cant go over 60kg (I can do 76kg)...the stronglift program is good, i made some nice gains on it.. dont listen to the retards who give out about it without ever trying it.

i can do blah blah blah, dude you really aren't endearing yourself to other forum users by inserting your own massive lift numbers in the middle of every post, or by calling everyone childish names...... not cool

PeakOutput

pcworldsucks wrote: »

this is not mederately strong - this is top class. look at bench 100kg for 75kg bodyweight, that is serious strength, most pussys in the gym cant go over 60kg (I can do 76kg)...the stronglift program is good, i made some nice gains on it.. dont listen to the retards who give out about it without ever trying it.

you kidder you

AlphaMale 3OO

pcworldsucks wrote: »

this is not mederately strong - this is top class. look at bench 100kg for 75kg bodyweight, that is serious strength, most pussys in the gym cant go over 60kg (I can do 76kg)...the stronglift program is good, i made some nice gains on it.. dont listen to the retards who give out about it without ever trying it.

Its not top class really.

kevpants

pcworldsucks wrote: »

most pussys in the gym cant go over 60kg (I can do 76kg)

Aww man you are making my day. Just re-read this line and see what you're actually saying.

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote: »

How can anyone trust someone to write a "strength" program when they can't even make themselves moderately strong?

Maybe he was a sh1t lifter but a good thinker. It seems you rubbish anything that goes outside of your convential norms. I'm going to make gains on this programme. I see your log says 'tackling Sheiko'. Presumably you are doing or once did what I see as a counterproductive approach that I found boring, tiresome and far too long and intense. By your rationale, I suppose that makes it wrong then?

This programme I am doing is the polar opposite of that thus far, short, concise, well layed out and most importantly -enjoyable. So get off your high horse and stop talking down to me, I have lifted successfully for years always making gains even when not following a programme (which is most of the time). From what I can see I can match you on most lifts so either I'm doing something right or you're doing something wrong- only difference is I haven't plastered it all over boards and t-nation. None of this is rocket science - lift and get strong. So what, I'll be squatting 3 times a week-big deal. This is somehow dangerous?

You can keep criticising my approach or you can try and lend a hand, which I doubt is a viable option now so keep criticising.

Hanley

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

Maybe he was a sh1t lifter but a good thinker.

Maybe.

It seems you rubbish anything that goes outside of your convential norms. I'm going to make gains on this programme. I see your log says 'tackling Sheiko'. Presumably you are doing or once did what I see as a counterproductive approach that I found boring, tiresome and far too long and intense. By your rationale, I suppose that makes it wrong then?

I did do some Sheiko training. The log was set up to keep track of it. I didn't particularly like it for several reasons which I've outlined before. I wouldn't call it "sh!t" because it's produced some of the strongest lifters in the world. As a multiyear training program with coaching from Boris himself it's proven to be very successful. Unlike "stronglifts" which seems to take people from weak to less weak/almost intermediate.

Considering your lifts, do you not think it's a bit mad to do a beginners program?

Sheiko's not for me, but I believe if I was to sit down into a 2 or 3 year cycle with it and spend some serious time under the bar I would improve on it,

This programme I am doing is the polar opposite of that thus far, short, concise, well layed out and most importantly -enjoyable.

Enjoyable =/= productive. It might work, but I wouldn't do it because it's "enjoyable" uinless it produced tangible results.

So get off your high horse and stop talking down to me, I have lifted successfully for years always making gains even when not following a programme (which is most of the time).

That's good for you. But if you're making gains now... why bother changing your approach?

From what I can see I can match you on most lifts so either I'm doing something right or you're doing something wrong- only difference is I haven't plastered it all over boards and t-nation.

SRSLY?

What did you say you deadlift... 202.5kg x5?? How's your squat?

None of this is rocket science - lift and get strong. So what, I'll be squatting 3 times a week-big deal. This is somehow dangerous?

Correct, but I never said it was rocket science?

And I never said squatting 3x a week was dangerous. It's been proven to be quite productive (think Smolov/Sheiko).

You can keep criticising my approach or you can try and lend a hand, which I doubt is a viable option now so keep criticising.

To be honest I think I've offered pretty good insights as to what I feel is wrong with your proposed approach. Which is especially generous of me considering you've taunted me in PM's before saying I was unwilling to help because I was afraid of the competition you'd provide.

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote: »

I wouldn't call it "sh!t" because it's produced some of the strongest lifters in the world.

I called it sh1t?

Hanley wrote: »

Unlike "stronglifts" which seems to take people from weak to less weak/almost intermediate.

That remains to be seen from the point of view of my progression. Everyones different after all. Many people have gained on this programme. I'll let you know in 8 weeks time.

Hanley wrote: »

Considering your lifts, do you not think it's a bit mad to do a beginners program?

No. Considering I've only ever followed through on 3 programmes in 12 years, I don't. This gives me some focus on lifts that I enjoy doing.

Hanley wrote: »

Enjoyable =/= productive. It might work, but I wouldn't do it because it's "enjoyable" uinless it produced tangible results.

Again this is YOUR opinion. To me and many other people, enjoyable very much does equal productive. We don't all lift for pure strength reasons. This is how blinkered you are. I lift for strength, aesthetics, self esteem and enjoyment. I also lift among friends. This to me is productive.

Hanley wrote: »

That's good for you. But if you're making gains now... why bother changing your approach?.

Because change is good and it keeps things fresh and interesting.

Hanley wrote: »

SRSLY?

What did you say you deadlift... 202.5kg x5?? How's your squat?

237.5 deadlift, 152.5 bench and 210 squat. I'm not sure how this directly compares to you but from reading just a few pages of your log I know its not a million miles away considering my arcane training methods. I have never lifted equipped just used chalk on my hands at a bodyweight of 95kg. Then again, I'm not a trained powerlifter like you and my training methods leave much to be desired.

Hanley wrote: »

Correct, but I never said it was rocket science?

No you didnt. You'd swear that it was though, the way your going on.

Hanley wrote: »

And I never said squatting 3x a week was dangerous. It's been proven to be quite productive (think Smolov/Sheiko).?

No you didn't but somebody who has yet to explain themselves (Mikel?) thinks I'll get injured on this programme.

Hanley wrote: »

To be honest I think I've offered pretty good insights as to what I feel is wrong with your proposed approach.

Not really. You just quoted a load of lifts the maker of the programme did and asked how one could get strong lifting on a programme so bad as this. You never attempted to answer my original question.

Hanley wrote: »

Which is especially generous of me considering you've taunted me in PM's before saying I was unwilling to help because I was afraid of the competition you'd provide.

Well why didn't you help then? I was always respectful and it wasn't meant as a taunt. Twice I asked and you blanked me both times, all after offering to help in the first place without my asking. Thanks.

Anyway. This is just going round in circles and I don't have the time to argue with you. Unless feel like you want to help out, please don't comment any more.

DM-BM

Hanley wrote: »

Unlike "stronglifts" which seems to take people from weak to less weak/almost intermediate.

Even if this is the case Hanley, is that such a bad thing?

I mean, you believe that most people, if they train right over a long period of time, can reach an elite level. So surely this has to be done step by step, and going from weak to less weak/almost intermediate is one step on the way. No?

What sort of routines did you do to go from weak to where you regarded yourself as an intermediate.?

I realise the OP isn't a novice, so i'm asking those questions in general terms.Sorry OP if i'm going off topic.

kevpants

From my perspective Alpha, Stronglifts just sets off my bullsh1tometer in a big way. It just smacks of a marketing ploy with bits copied and pasted from other training designs.

I'm sure you'd weigh in on a Sheiko discussion with your negative feedback and you'd be right to.

No one is attacking you, you have some good numbers there but if you want advice on it take a look at the forum on Stronglifts. It's noob central and you aren't a noob! Everyone who puts up decent numbers either:

1. Doesn't contribute to their forum
2. Gave up on Stronglifts
or
3. Never considered it in the first place.

That's why I rubbished it.

If you're set on it why don't you do up a log? Be interesting to see how it goes. There are already Sheiko, Westside, 5x5, DC, Oly Lifting, 5/3/1 logs but I don't think there's an advanced Stronglifts one.

Hanley

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

I called it sh1t?

Nope.

That remains to be seen from the point of view of my progression. Everyones different after all. Many people have gained on this programme. I'll let you know in 8 weeks time.

Make sure you do.

Again this is YOUR opinion. To me and many other people, enjoyable very much does equal productive. We don't all lift for pure strength reasons. This is how blinkered you are. I lift for strength, aesthetics, self esteem and enjoyment. I also lift among friends. This to me is productive.

You asked about peoples results from the program? Is it really such a leap to assume you were talking about the strength increases get from a strength[/] program?

237.5 deadlift, 152.5 bench and 210 squat. I'm not sure how this directly compares to you but from reading just a few pages of your log I know its not a million miles away considering my arcane training methods. I have never lifted equipped just used chalk on my hands at a bodyweight of 95kg. Then again, I'm not a trained powerlifter like you and my training methods leave much to be desired.

You only pull 202.5kg x5 but do 237.5kg x1? That's some nice carryover.

I seem to remember you claiming a 160kg bench a while back??

I haven't maxed out raw in quite some time so I wouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions based off training numbers. And believe me, training is A LOT different that lifting in a comp. Ask Kevpants or Podge, they'll confirm how much more difficult it is.

No you didnt. You'd swear that it was though, the way your going on.

How?

Well why didn't you help then? I was always respectful and it wasn't meant as a taunt. Twice I asked and you blanked me both times, all after offering to help in the first place without my asking. Thanks.

Believe it or not, I have a life. And a pretty busy one at that. I don't always have free time to sit around helping other people. I spend enoguh time doing that while I'm trying to train. It might take me a while to reply to PM's at times, but 99% of time I do.

Anyway. This is just going round in circles and I don't have the time to argue with you. Unless feel like you want to help out, please don't comment any more.

Best of luck. I look forward to lifting against you.

Hanley

DM-BM wrote: »

Even if this is the case Hanley, is that such a bad thing?

I mean, you believe that most people, if they train right over a long period of time, can reach an elite level. So surely this has to be done step by step, and going from weak to less weak/almost intermediate is one step on the way. No?

Sounds like a logical enough progression alright....

What sort of routines did you do to go from weak to where you regarded yourself as an intermediate.?

Something like stronglifts could work, if you're a beginner. But the OP is not.

I realise the OP isn't a novice, so i'm asking those questions in general terms.Sorry OP if i'm going off topic.

In general, it can be useful. But the majority of his stuff is ripped off from Bill Starr's original template, and Mark Rippetoe. And that annoys me greatly. IMO, not only is he weak (relativel), but he's also a rip off merchant.

AlphaMale 3OO

DM-BM wrote: »

Even if this is the case Hanley, is that such a bad thing?

I mean, you believe that most people, if they train right over a long period of time, can reach an elite level. So surely this has to be done step by step, and going from weak to less weak/almost intermediate is one step on the way. No?

What sort of routines did you do to go from weak to where you regarded yourself as an intermediate.?

I realise the OP isn't a novice, so i'm asking those questions in general terms.Sorry OP if i'm going off topic.

No problem.

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote: »

You only pull 202.5kg x5 but do 237.5kg x1? That's some nice carryover.

Whatever. I dont need you to validate my lifts. 202.5kg for 5 last June, 237.5kg for 1 last December. Yeah i see where you're coming from, completely impossible.....

Maybe next time i max deadlift for 5 I'll do more than 202.5?

Hanley wrote: »

I seem to remember you claiming a 160kg bench a while back??

I dont remember saying that. Wish I could bench that.

Hanley wrote: »

I haven't maxed out raw in quite some time so I wouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions based off training numbers. And believe me, training is A LOT different that lifting in a comp.

Yeah thanks, I dont really care anyway.

Hanley wrote: »

Believe it or not, I have a life. And a pretty busy one at that. I don't always have free time to sit around helping other people. I spend enoguh time doing that while I'm trying to train. It might take me a while to reply to PM's at times, but 99% of time I do.

Really? With the amount you post here I wouldn't have thought you had a life at all, let alone a busy one. Posting while at work, wow you must be run off your feet....And if you didn't want to reply to me by PM you should never have told me to PM you. Nice one.

Hanley wrote: »

Best of luck. I look forward to lifting against you.

To be fair I can't see that happening. Priorities change.

Stop hijacking my thread. Thanks.

iregk

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

Whatever. I dont need you to validate my lifts. 202.5kg for 5 last June, 237.5kg for 1 last December. Yeah i see where you're coming from, completely impossible.....

Maybe next time i max deadlift for 5 I'll do more than 202.5?

Yeah alright lads, my d**k is bigger than yours, yeah but mines better because it lasts an extra 2 thrusts...

Relax the heads. Alpha if you like the prog and your making gains go with it. Hanley you have your prog and lets be honest, your way too experienced and familiar around these parts to get bogged down in this tit for tat BS.

This is getting like the soccer forum so lets relax and keep it all nice and sparkly.

Mikel

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

No you didn't but somebody who has yet to explain themselves (Mikel?) thinks I'll get injured on this programme.

No, somebody asked about the quality of technical instruction on his website, I wasn't implying it was incorrect.
I'm less concerned with programming than with correct form, but I'm not a competitive lifter and I have been injured a lot through various things.

Hanley wrote:

I haven't maxed out raw in quite some time so I wouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions based off training numbers. And believe me, training is A LOT different that lifting in a comp. Ask Kevpants or Podge, they'll confirm how much more difficult it is.

I always assumed it was the other way around because of the adrenalin and maybe taking a risk that you wouldn't in the gym. Interesting

Hanley

Mikel wrote: »

I always assumed it was the other way around because of the adrenalin and maybe taking a risk that you wouldn't in the gym. Interesting

When you have to sink in your squats, pause your benches and not hitch your deadlifts you get a lot of newbs being very surprised.

If you train like you compete, you should lift more in comp cos of adrenalin etc, but if you lift like most people do in the gym, you'll take a nose dive.

That being said, 3 heavy squat attempts can kill your bench. And more often than not you're out on your feet by the time the deadlift rolls around.

You can't discount the effect a 12 hour day has on you. At this years single lift champs guys weighed in at like 8-9am, squatted at 11 or 12, benched at 3 or 4 and were only deadlifting at 7 or 8pm. It's a long day and if you dont plan ahead with lots of food and water it's even more difficult.

AlphaMale 3OO

I didn't want to bother typing a log every day so I've just decided to give a halfway point update on the programme for those that are interested. So far I'm really enjoying it and going well. I came off a very severe keto diet straight into this programme so my strength was well down as I started. To offset my initial fears of the strenuous loading parameters (my 5 rep max x5 in week 3), I followed the exact programme for two weeks and thereafter scaled it down by around 10% to a more manageable load. So instead of deadlifting 200 for 5, I deadlifted 180 for 5. This seems to have allowed me a more gentle return to my previous strength levels as I am once again following the exact format of the programme in terms of loading parameters in week 5. Sets have been reduced from 5x5 to 3x3 and squats which were performed three times a week have been reduced to twice a week as per the programme. Just as well, as my knees were beginning to cause me slight discomfort which they never previously have. Testing my strength this week, I equalled my best ever bench and surpassed my deadlift by 2.5kg so the initial criticism of the programme to me, seems harsh. I didn't test squat. So far things are going well but I'll reserve judgement until the end. If anybody is thinking of doing this programme despite its perceived ineffectiveness, base your 5 rep max's on your current strength levels, not your all time scores. This is one mistake I made at the beginning which is why I had to scale back the weight in week 3. I'm confident that with proper rest and nutrition, I'll break all my records in 4 weeks time.

kevpants

Good goin.

What are you hitting on the 3x3's and what is your 1RM out of interest? If you see my log it's based on similar rep ranges so I just want to compare the setup.

What do you do after 4 weeks? Is it a cycle? Will you recalculate your %'s based of a your new max or will you just add a certain % to everything... or will you just move on to something else?

AlphaMale 3OO

kevpants wrote: »

Good goin.

What are you hitting on the 3x3's and what is your 1RM out of interest? If you see my log it's based on similar rep ranges so I just want to compare the setup.

What do you do after 4 weeks? Is it a cycle? Will you recalculate your %'s based of a your new max or will you just add a certain % to everything... or will you just move on to something else?

Sorry for the delay. This past week, the 3x3 have been:

Bench 110kgx3, 125kgx3, 137.5kgx3 (Monday) and 125kg 3x3 (Friday)
Squat 160kg 3x3 (Monday) and 137.5kgx3, 150kgx3, 170kgx3 (Friday)
Deadlift 197.5kg 3x3 (Wednesday)

Bench Max 152.5kg and Deadlift 240kg. Squat-?

The bench was good and felt really easy but I'm dissapointed because I raised my ass a little when I had no need to do so whatsoever as the bar was well fast and I never struggled. I'll have to go again.

After 4 weeks you "deload" from 5x5 to 3x3. Just a volume change really as you continue to pile on weight if you can. You also go from 3 days of squats to 2. I wont be recalculating my % as I've only equalled one and beat another by just 2.5kg. I dont see the need. By the last week you're expected to lift equal to or above your max for 3 reps anyway so that would represent progress either way. Hope that helps.