Ireland vs England

bleg

O kelly out

http://planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3551_4963080,00.html

Boots09

I wonder will Casey get into the 22 now? I for one would like to see him there especially seeing as he would know a lot about the English pack!

ScholesyIsGod

Its about time he didnt deserve to be in the squad in the first place, Bob Casey has been outstanding for Irish all season he deserves a place on the bench.

Noopti

Boots09 wrote: »

I wonder will Casey get into the 22 now? I for one would like to see him there especially seeing as he would know a lot about the English pack!

He doesn't need to be in the match day 22 to impart knowledge on Kennedy though.

I would rather the bench spot went to Ryan, or at least someone who is more of an impact player.

murphym7

Not a big Mal fan anyway. I don't think he is up to that standard anymore.

Serenity Now!

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

Its about time he didnt deserve to be in the squad in the first place, Bob Casey has been outstanding for Irish all season he deserves a place on the bench.

Being good enough for Reading 'Irish' doesn't mean he's good enough for Ireland.
If the management thinks he's good enough, they'll pick him.

ScholesyIsGod

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Being good enough for Reading 'Irish' doesn't mean he's good enough for Ireland.
If the management thinks he's good enough, they'll pick him.

So being captain of a team who are challenging for the Guinness Premiership and who made the semi finals of last years Heineken Cup doesnt make him good enough to play for Ireland?

Along with Kennedy he's the best second row in England.

ScholesyIsGod

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

So being captain of a team who are challenging for the Guinness Premiership and who made the semi finals of last years Heineken Cup doesnt make him good enough to play for Ireland?

Along with Kennedy he's the best second row in England.

Exactly,shows how poor the 2nd rows are in England.


I like Bob though and it would be cruel and stupid to drop Mok to pick Mod,when Casey is younger and better.

bleg

quinnie on the bench perhaps? had a great game on sat, definitely an option is all i'm saying.

sm.org

bleg wrote: »

quinnie on the bench perhaps? had a great game on sat, definitely an option is all i'm saying.

Yeah swap one dinosaur for another, I've heard better ideas.

chupacabra

Slightly OT but who else thinks this would be a great match to start Reddan, or at least bench him. He has more knowledge of the english game and players than any other player on the team, bar G. Murphy, and plays with/against these guys week in week out. Not to mention the good game he had with the 'A' team, one of the best players on the field imo.

ScholesyIsGod

He did well against Scotland A but they were poor, O' Brien and Muldoon were brilliant in that game too but i doubt it will have much influence on the squad for Saturday. I think O'Leary is doing well his box kicking needs to improve but other then that he has done a good job. If anything id say Stringer has the strongest case to come in to the team if TOL was to be benched he was excellent when he came on against Italy

Serenity Now!

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

So being captain of a team who are challenging for the Guinness Premiership and who made the semi finals of last years Heineken Cup doesnt make him good enough to play for Ireland

I'd say Dec Kidney and Gert Smal would know, wouldn't they?

ALH-06

I'd stick with O'Leary's physicality against England. Main question is Wallace or Darcy?

When is the team being announced?

Noopti

ALH-06 wrote: »

I'd stick with O'Leary's physicality against England. Main question is Wallace or Darcy?

When is the team being announced?

Thinking about it I wouldn't change the team at all.

TOL is physical enough to combat the inevitable English attacking around the fringes and we can bring Stringer on later in the game when it has opened up more and his quick pass could prove the difference.

Wallace has had a rough ride of late, but I wouldn't drop him to the bench. Play him, give him the proper chance he deserves and we can always bring on D'Arcy if the need arises and to add some impact.

Being able to bring on Stringer, D'Arcy and Leamy when there are some tired English players out there is fantastic as these guys can really make a big impact on the game. Hopefully by that stage we are in a good position, but even if we aren't those players are game changers.

Serenity Now!

ALH-06 wrote: »

I'd stick with O'Leary's physicality against England. Main question is Wallace or Darcy?

When is the team being announced?

Wallace should start with d'Arcy on bench. I'd say Mick O'Driscoll will be the only change.

Team announced as usual at lunchtime today probably. (always on the tuesday before the game)

Persiancowboy

While i welcome O'Kelly's ommission - the guy has been in neutral gear for the last year or so - replacing him with Mick O'Drick does nothing to strengthen the squad. Mick has never shown he has what it takes to make a positive difference at international level. He is at best 3rd choice in Munster and gets little regular gametime in the Heineken.

Not sure if his selection on the bench tells us more about Deccy's conservative nature or (and more worryingly) the dearth of international class 2nd rows available to us right now.

handsomecake

i think england will win this one guys. on paper they shouldnt but i have a feeling we will get turned

bamboozle

MOD has been 4th choice 2nd row for Munster this season, and is a worse player than Mal, Donncadh Ryan & Bob Casey. MOD has never stepped up to the plate at international level and irrespective of his connections with Kidney he should be nowhere near an international squad.


If it was me i'd have Ryan as sub or Casey. Time for O'Kelly to step aside, however lets try bring through some youth and let Ryan experience being round the squad.

Serenity Now!

bamboozle wrote: »

MOD has been 4th choice 2nd row for Munster this season, and is a worse player than Mal, Donncadh Ryan & Bob Casey. MOD has never stepped up to the plate at international level and irrespective of his connections with Kidney he should be nowhere near an international squad

Declan Kidney isn't the only selector of the squad. There is an Sth African, a Leinster man and an Aussie as well as the captain and asst captain.

Otacon

handsomecake wrote: »

i think england will win this one guys. on paper they shouldnt but i have a feeling we will get turned

Why? What has changed in the last two weeks? While England improved their game against Wales, who certainly weren't spectacular anyway, they were still well behind what they should be. What gives you the impression that Ireland will buckle and England will up their game further?

I think its more likely that Ireland will continue a good run and England will also improve. I think the result will be closer than most people think, but I still think Ireland have the talent and confidence to get the win.

juvenal

Ireland V England
Saturday 28 Febuary 2009 5.30pm (Irish)
Croke Park, Dublin
Live on RTÉ2, RTÉ.ie, RTÉ Radio 1; BBC1, BBC Radio 5 Live

Ireland|No.|England
Rob Kearney|15|Delon Armitage
Tommy Bowe|14|Paul Sackey
Brian O'Driscoll|13|Mike Tindall
Paddy Wallace|12|Ricky Flutey
Luke Fitzgerald|11|Mark Cueto
Ronan O'Gara|10|Toby Flood
Tomás O'Leary|9|Harry Ellis
Marcus Horan|1|Andrew Sheridan
Jerry Flannery|2|Lee Mears
John Hayes|3|Phil Vickery
Donncha O'Callaghan|4|Steve Borthwick
Paul O'Connell|5|Nick Kennedy
Stephen Ferris|6|James Haskell
David Wallace|7|Joe Worsley
Jamie Heaslip|8|Nick Easter

Ireland Replacements: Rory Best, Tom Court, Mick O'Driscoll, Denis Leamy, Peter Stringer, Gordon D'Arcy, Geordan Murphy.

England replacements: Dylan Hartley, Julian White, Tom Croft, Luke Narraway, Danny Care, Andy Goode, Matthew Tait.

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: Christophe Berdos (France), Peter Allan (Scotland)
TMO: Giulio de Santis (Italy)

juvenal

As expected, an unchanged team, with the only squad change being Mick O'Driscoll coming in for Malcolm O'Kelly on the bench.

I feel that Darcy and Stringer offer a lot more coming off the bench with their experience and impact than their respective positional rivals. Both have made significant impacts coming off the bench in the two games thus far, and while they may feel hard done by to miss out on a starting berth, it's a 22 man game now, and they are top class impact players to have. That could be key when we see them coming on with 25 minutes or so to go. Happy with the team, and looking forward to a great match.

Otacon

Don't agree with the MOD decision but hey, so far so good from DK, so I'll continue to trust him.

sock puppet

Lets hope those mean old referees don't bully England.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/borthwick-calls-for-fair-play-in-croker-1650776.html

bamboozle

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Declan Kidney isn't the only selector of the squad. There is an Sth African, a Leinster man and an Aussie as well as the captain and asst captain.

irrespective of who is 'assisting' in squad selection, MOD has played 2nd fiddle to Donncadh Ryan this season, has not started a game of note apart from the All Blacks match for Munster, so how can he be showing form worthy of selection on the Internationl Squad?

Mal, Casey, Ryan, Caldwell, Tonar, Hogan, Cullen have all played more HC rugby than him this season, he's over 30, i just dont see any reason to justify his selection.

Podge_irl

While I understand dropping Mal, it seems a bit odd to then bring in MOD. He hasn't played a single minute of HEC rugby this season. I realise Ryan and Cullen are unavailable, but surely it would be worth taking a risk on Caldwell or just giving Casey the bench spot.

sm.org

Podge_irl wrote: »

While I understand dropping Mal, it seems a bit odd to then bring in MOD. He hasn't played a single minute of HEC rugby this season. I realise Ryan and Cullen are unavailable, but surely it would be worth taking a risk on Caldwell or just giving Casey the bench spot.

Are we honestly going to focus on this after two fine performances by the team and near perfect selections from Kidney in the match 22 so far.

Caldwell is a fine player but gives away a ridculous amount of penalties and can anyone HONESTLY say they've been impressed by Casey for either LI or the A team this season and not just basing their opinion of him on what the British press.

I'm going to give DK the benefit of the doubt on this one and reserve judgement till sunday.

stevire

bamboozle wrote: »

he's over 30, i just dont see any reason to justify his selection.

I think you answered your own question, I'm personally more a fan of Casey and Ryan. But i think its his experience that DK was after. If the scores were tight I think he'd be the right man to bring on to close the game out.

You could agree that Casey has just as much experience, but with a Munster driven pack I think MOD was the better choice. Casey hasn't been around the international scene with this team either. The likes of MOD, MOK has. MOK is well past it, but brings experience and stability. It's like for like.

Podge_irl

sm.org wrote: »

Are we honestly going to focus on this after two fine performances by the team and near perfect selections from Kidney in the match 22 so far.

Caldwell is a fine player but gives away a ridculous amount of penalties and can anyone HONESTLY say they've been impressed by Casey for either LI or the A team this season and not just basing their opinion of him on what the British press.

I'm going to give DK the benefit of the doubt on this one and reserve judgement till sunday.

There's nothing else to discuss!

Caldwell's discipline has gotten a better of late, and while I'm not a big fan of Casey I would hardly claim to have been impressed by MOD either. Not that there has been much opportunity for me to, seeing as he hasn't played any HEC rugby.

If he was brought in for his experience then I think its silly. He's probably not going to be used anyway, England are playing like **** and its not like Casey is an 18 year old.

sm.org

Podge_irl wrote: »

There's nothing else to discuss!

Caldwell's discipline has gotten a better of late, and while I'm not a big fan of Casey I would hardly claim to have been impressed by MOD either. Not that there has been much opportunity for me to, seeing as he hasn't played any HEC rugby.

If he was brought in for his experience then I think its silly. He's probably not going to be used anyway, England are playing like **** and its not like Casey is an 18 year old.

So an arguement for the sake of an arguement :pac: fair enough.

Shows the progress Ireland are making. This time last year we didn't know where to begin the discussion.

andrewh5

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

If anything id say Stringer has the strongest case to come in to the team if TOL was to be benched he was excellent when he came on against Italy

I agree with that. I would rather Strings was on than TOL. He played far better against Italy than TOL did IMHO.

gearstick

Have to say bit disappointed with the overall selection. cant say ive been disappointed with the performances of late but i was under the impression DK intended on "building a squad" in this tournament, and over the next few years..

Have his priorities changed now because we are in with a very slight chance of winning a gs?? and i no people will say if it ain't broke...... but at the very least he could introduce some of the younger players to the bench. just my oppion anyway

velocirafter

experience would show that DK doesnt really go for sweeping changes, he's more slow and steady. I'm sure over time new players will be introduced.

Colm_OReilly

gearstick wrote: »

Have to say bit disappointed with the overall selection. cant say ive been disappointed with the performances of late but i was under the impression DK intended on "building a squad" in this tournament, and over the next few years..

Have his priorities changed now because we are in with a very slight chance of winning a gs?? and i no people will say if it ain't broke...... but at the very least he could introduce some of the younger players to the bench. just my oppion anyway

I'd say after the French game we said - Cool, let's try win this thing, so strongest foot forward. The tour to Canada/USA will be the selection tour I think, then we'll see about the AIs. But right now, we can win it, and damn it, I've bought my tickets and my jersey, I want to win it!

ALH-06

andrewh5 wrote: »

I agree with that. I would rather Strings was on than TOL. He played far better against Italy than TOL did IMHO.

Stringer is far more effective off the bench as an impact sub - that much was clear against Italy.

TOL is a strong solid player with good footballing skills and great pace - definitely a more complete player.

andrewh5

ALH-06 wrote: »

TOL is a strong solid player with good footballing skills and great pace - definitely a more complete player.

A lot of his kicking against France and Italy was way off the mark though. Far too much long kicking into dead space just for the opposition to scoop up & run back with - just what the froggies love BTW. Strings is a far better kicker in that regard.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

While I understand dropping Mal, it seems a bit odd to then bring in MOD. He hasn't played a single minute of HEC rugby this season. I realise Ryan and Cullen are unavailable, but surely it would be worth taking a risk on Caldwell or just giving Casey the bench spot.

If you are picking the form players

MOD had a very good game in the win against Edinburgh (partnering Quinlan at the last minute instead of Ryan) last weekend - he also captained Munster.

I only half watched it, but didn't Caldwell come on for Ulster against the Dragons, was a bit too anxious and gave away a penalty which lost Ulster the game?

Casey - hasn't really been around the international squad enough - he also missed some training time in the autumn because he wasn't released by his club) and game will known byopposition. (same could be said for Reddan).

POC & DOC are both playing well and will only be replaced in the last few minutes. MOD is there for injury cover - not impact.

I'm a big D'Arcy fan, but I'm glad Paddy Wallace got another chance (hopefully he doesn't get injured again). D'Arcy has had a huge impact.
Having Stringer, G Murphy & Leamy as impact players isn't too shabby either.

Great to see Kidney turning Ireland into a 22 man game, but not giving out cheap caps.

ALH-06

andrewh5 wrote: »

A lot of his kicking against France and Italy was way off the mark though. Far too much long kicking into dead space just for the opposition to scoop up & run back with - just what the froggies love BTW. Strings is a far better kicker in that regard.

You're right, it was. But kicking it back to France was in the game plan I reckon - TOL wasn't the only one doing it. But I've seen TOL box kick very effectively as well. Stringer's never been known for his ability to kick.

sock puppet

thehighground wrote: »

If you are picking the form players

MOD had a very good game in the win against Edinburgh (partnering Quinlan at the last minute instead of Ryan) last weekend - he also captained Munster.

I only half watched it, but didn't Caldwell come on for Ulster against the Dragons, was a bit too anxious and gave away a penalty which lost Ulster the game?

Casey - hasn't really been around the international squad enough - he also missed some training time in the autumn because he wasn't released by his club) and game will known byopposition. (same could be said for Reddan).

POC & DOC are both playing well and will only be replaced in the last few minutes. MOD is there for injury cover - not impact.

I'm a big D'Arcy fan, but I'm glad Paddy Wallace got another chance (hopefully he doesn't get injured again). D'Arcy has had a huge impact.
Having Stringer, G Murphy & Leamy as impact players isn't too shabby either.

Great to see Kidney turning Ireland into a 22 man game, but not giving out cheap caps.

Caldwell didn't really lose them that game. It was just typical Ulster falling off in the second half. Though you'd expect as much considering they've a few players missing. The one penalty was hardly the biggest mistake in that match.

I agree. I doubt MOD will be sprung off the bench at all unless there's an injury. I still would have preferred to see Caldwell though. Doubt it'll make a difference in the end.

thehighground

sock puppet wrote: »

Caldwell didn't really lose them that game. It was just typical Ulster falling off in the second half. Though you'd expect as much considering they've a few players missing. The one penalty was hardly the biggest mistake in that match.

I agree. I doubt MOD will be sprung off the bench at all unless there's an injury. I still would have preferred to see Caldwell though. Doubt it'll make a difference in the end.

Not blaming Caldwell for losing the game (I actually didn't see it all - just the last few minutes) ... but when a cool head was needed, he blew it. You wouldn't worry about MOD doing something like that in the last minute. Caldwell will get his chance in a less important game first of all.

As a matter of interest, how did Ian Humphreys do? Anyone think he should be on the bench for Ireland?

corny

gearstick wrote: »

Have to say bit disappointed with the overall selection. cant say ive been disappointed with the performances of late but i was under the impression DK intended on "building a squad" in this tournament, and over the next few years..

Have his priorities changed now because we are in with a very slight chance of winning a gs?? and i no people will say if it ain't broke...... but at the very least he could introduce some of the younger players to the bench. just my oppion anyway

I'd say it's a distinct possibility not 'a very slight chance'.

thomond2006

Jeez, Bob Casey must be wondering if he's cursed, how good does he have to be playing to get a shot with Ireland.

Personally, I would have put BOD at 12 and Keith Earls at 13, drop P. Wallace altogether and keep D'Arcy on the bench as an effective impact sub ( I am probably gonna get roasted by you guys for even suggesting this:(:()

outwest

why drop paddy. he actually been unlucky. he got busted open one eye in one game. and got the other eye in the other game. earls should not be in squad cos he hasnt played much in the last few weeks.

wallace is on the last chance saloon. needs a good game. also needs rog to pass him the ball :)

coylerwhaa

MOD why, there are 3 better 2nd rows, casey, o'kelly & ryan around the squad. I have yet to see MOD offer anything at international level, he's a handy enough squad member at provincial level but thats it.

Peter B

Anyone know whats up with Ryan and Cullen?

Crash

Cullen still recovering, apparently back in time for the QF. Ryan apparently (hearsay by the way) didn't play at the weekend as he had to attend a funeral, hence Quinnie coming in. No idea if that ones true or not.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

If you are picking the form players

MOD had a very good game in the win against Edinburgh (partnering Quinlan at the last minute instead of Ryan) last weekend - he also captained Munster.

I only half watched it, but didn't Caldwell come on for Ulster against the Dragons, was a bit too anxious and gave away a penalty which lost Ulster the game?

I didn't see the Ulster game so I can't comment, but MOD playing well against a depleted Edinburgh is hardly a ringing endorsement. I can't imagine MOD is even going to get on the pitch and if he does he's not going to lose Ireland the game or anything, but it is indicative of one of the flaws in Kidney's style. He does tend to rely on players he knows a bit too much (think Anthony Horgan). Casey has been playing well all season (or so I'm told, i'll admit I havent seen much of him) and Caldwell is quite promising. None of the options are really good enough for this level, but putting Munster's fourth choice lock there over two first teamers is a bit odd (and sends a bad signal imo).

Ryan's bereavement was mentioned by the Setanta commentators (not that that necessarily means its true!).

dreamer_ire

thehighground wrote: »

I'm a big D'Arcy fan, but I'm glad Paddy Wallace got another chance (hopefully he doesn't get injured again). D'Arcy has had a huge impact.
Having Stringer, G Murphy & Leamy as impact players isn't too shabby either.

Great to see Kidney turning Ireland into a 22 man game, but not giving out cheap caps.

I'm also pleased to see Wallace get another chance though I think he needs to play incredibly well to start the final two matches. He's had a run of bad luck in the last two matches and is capable of a whole lot more.... here's hoping it's third time lucky for him.

ScholesyIsGod

Theres no doubt that Micko wont leave the side down if called upon but Bob Casey is the in form Irish lock outside of POC and DOC, what was the point of playing him and Caldwell in the A game and then calling O'Driscoll in ahead of both of them its a strange call.

bleg

Going Waterforward wrote: »

Ryan apparently (hearsay by the way) didn't play at the weekend as he had to attend a funeral, hence Quinnie coming in. No idea if that ones true or not.

http://munsterrugby.ie/9254.php


A family bereavement has forced Donnacha Ryan to withdraw from the Munster starting XV for the Magners League game against Edinburgh this evening at Musgrave Park.
His place goes to Alan Quinlan who will partner captain Mick O'Driscoll in the second row with Tommy O'Donnell coming onto the bench in place of Quilan.