Would you support it?

drunkmonkey

did anyone else read it or hear Gerry Adams speech, I think he had some clear agendas and good ideas....

extract.."I want to invite all potential allies to come together to forge a stronger, more united progressive and democratic movement for our country - one that aims to meet the needs of all citizens.
And I include parties like Labour, the Greens - if they can survive the fall-out from their participation in this"


What would you think of the coalition of the willing?,

I'd be prepared to give it a go as apposed to the alternative....


full text here...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0221/breaking32.htm

Dob74

Count me in. FF & FG stand for the same thing. We need a change, this country is rotten to the core. If there was a lab/sf/green coalition, FG & FF would probably merge. Something that should of happened after the civil war

BroomBurner

I would be up for a coalition so long as Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Sinn Fein and any independents that were once members of those three parties were not involved.

Zynks

I would support this coalition provided it is not headed by SF. Anyone else than SF.

Iwasfrozen

I would never for any reason support SF in goverment.

turgon

BroomBurner wrote: »

I would be up for a coalition so long as Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Sinn Fein and any independents that were once members of those three parties were not involved.

Thats like saying you want a maxed out salad sandwich without lettuce cucumber, tomato or onion. It just cant be done, the numbers dont add up.

yoshytoshy

thought gerry adams gave it his all and was in his element.
BUT ,he could keep his mouth shut just as good about things and thats why I wouldn't vote for them.

BroomBurner

turgon wrote: »

Thats like saying you want a maxed out salad sandwich without lettuce cucumber, tomato or onion. It just cant be done, the numbers dont add up.

Yeah, I know, sad but I don't trust any of them.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

is_that_so

Seeing as SF want to be a part of it it would nice if they could come, up with bit more than "join us" and come up with their own viable proposals. As I've posted elsewhere I don't think SF have any genuine policies that make them electable. They can certainly be a protest party but they're up against the SWP on that side of the spectrum.

Labour are hoping to get back to the Spring tide days of 30 seats and may do so. Labour are also determined to stay out of any alliances. So it is hard to see where the benefit to Labour is. A party with 4 seats inviting them to join an alliance? Much as people might hate FF or FG they would be needed to get the votes needed to elect a government. On the basis that FF will lose seats badly and FG will not countenance SF in government the whole idea is doomed from the start.

stakey

Realistically the 'alternative' coalition ideas aren't really a runner, on the outside chance I could see Labour squeezing Fine Gael into second place and as such being the bigger party in such a coalition. To make up the numbers I could see them bringing in the Greens and independants. I don't see any political party in Ireland being associated with Sinn Fein for a long time, the peace process is too fresh and anything that Sinn Fein may be associated with in Northern Ireland would only be dragged into the Dail too. No Irish political party wants to be associated with that.

Duiske

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He had the law applied to himself, and served his time.

yomchi

stakey wrote: »

Realistically the 'alternative' coalition ideas aren't really a runner, on the outside chance I could see Labour squeezing Fine Gael into second place and as such being the bigger party in such a coalition. To make up the numbers I could see them bringing in the Greens and independants. I don't see any political party in Ireland being associated with Sinn Fein for a long time, the peace process is too fresh and anything that Sinn Fein may be associated with in Northern Ireland would only be dragged into the Dail too. No Irish political party wants to be associated with that.

Is this going to be another 'I'd never vote for Sinn Féin but I don't really know why thread'? - 'and when I don't know why, I'll bring up the big bad IRA who have been on cessation nearly 12 years now' -

The highlighted sentence above clearly outlines that you have it wrong. For many years now 'Irish' political parties have been working hand in hand with Sinn Féin, not only at council level but Oireachtas level also. In the Oireachtas at the moment SF have agreements and working relationships with certain oppostion parties and independants in order to increase opposition speaking time and motions etc. Sinn Féin have also worked with Labour and Fianna Fáil at local govt level since 1985, at a Dublin level anyway. Seeing as though we are talking about 'Ireland' - Sinn Féin initiated the peace process with the SDLP and have worked with the UUP and are now working with the DUP, they have also worked closely on community relations with the PUP - So what party exactly will not work with Sinn Féin or be associated with them?

Seeing as SF want to be a part of it it would nice if they could come, up with bit more than "join us" and come up with their own viable proposals. As I've posted elsewhere I don't think SF have any genuine policies that make them electable. They can certainly be a protest party but they're up against the SWP on that side of the spectrum.

The SWP????
Are you sure you have that correct~? The SWP are MINISCULE! or are you mixed up?
As for viable proposals, they have viable proposals. Adams speech touched on them without having to get into the minutia of it. Policies are there for all to see via their website.

yomchi

Duiske wrote: »

He had the law applied to himself, and served his time.

Incorrect.
Gerry Adams was interned WITHOUT trial. He was locked up with hundreds of Irish men for simply being Irish or having nationalist views. Gerry Adams was never convicted of anything in a court of law.

Duiske

Jon wrote: »

Incorrect.
Gerry Adams was interned WITHOUT trial. He was locked up with hundreds of Irish men for simply being Irish or having nationalist views. Gerry Adams was never convicted of anything in a court of law.

I stand corrected. I recall hearing though that during the 70's Adams was sentenced for an offence committed while he was interned. Protest or attempted escape I think. Anyway, it just legitimized his internment, or attempted to. I'll try to find a link.

Liam Byrne

To answer the thread title in a word, no.

And for the same reason as I wouldn't support FF......because (a) I don't trust them and (b) their double-standards and (c) they don't represent my ethical views.

Koloman

Jon wrote: »

Is this going to be another 'I'd never vote for Sinn Féin but I don't really know why thread'? - 'and when I don't know why, I'll bring up the big bad IRA who have been on cessation nearly 12 years now' -

The highlighted sentence above clearly outlines that you have it wrong. For many years now 'Irish' political parties have been working hand in hand with Sinn Féin, not only at council level but Oireachtas level also. In the Oireachtas at the moment SF have agreements and working relationships with certain oppostion parties and independants in order to increase opposition speaking time and motions etc. Sinn Féin have also worked with Labour and Fianna Fáil at local govt level since 1985, at a Dublin level anyway. Seeing as though we are talking about 'Ireland' - Sinn Féin initiated the peace process with the SDLP and have worked with the UUP and are now working with the DUP, they have also worked closely on community relations with the PUP - So what party exactly will not work with Sinn Féin or be associated with them?



The SWP????
Are you sure you have that correct~? The SWP are MINISCULE! or are you mixed up?
As for viable proposals, they have viable proposals. Adams speech touched on them without having to get into the minutia of it. Policies are there for all to see via their website.

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

yomchi

Duiske wrote: »

I stand corrected. I recall hearing though that during the 70's Adams was sentenced for an offence committed while he was interned. Protest or attempted escape I think. Anyway, it just legitimized his internment, or attempted to. I'll try to find a link.

You'll probably find it was the burning of the cages.

yomchi

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

Good point chara re the northern leadership, SF are working towards building a serious southern leadership based around Mary Lou McDonald. However lets not be partitionist about it, but it has been noted that Gerry Adams isn't the most briefed on southern economic issues, you'll find Mary Lou will be streets ahead.
As for it being a slow suicide in a national government, well time will tell when the country is unified and a national governement is elected by all the people of the island.
But to answer your point, why would you think it would be a slow suicide? I think the mainstream right wing parties who have brought this state to it's knees economically are more to blame for any slow suicide, i'd be interested to hear your views.

Nodin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would you support it?

I would indeed, though I'm not keen on the Greens.

Dob74

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

I dont understand why people have a problem with SF. FF & FG where bombing killing people in the early 20's and they went to government almost right away. Gerry Adams has meet the last two Presidents something Dev was denied in 1919.




Well, I understand if you are a drug dealer and dont want to be knee-capped.

LordSutch

Oh yes, Adams is very articulate, enchanting, charming, dangerously clever, and even presedential 'to his Republican flock', with his well trimmed beard and his newly coiffed hairdo > but in reality he is full of vacuous soundbites (just like Mary Lou), He also states the bleedin obvious, he makes vague & sweeping statements, but he is still unable to grasp southern economic matters, and he still leaves 90% + of the southern electorate cold.

What would you think of the coalition of the willing?

Yes, provided it didnt include SF.

jmayo

Jon wrote: »

Good point chara re the northern leadership, SF are working towards building a serious southern leadership based around Mary Lou McDonald. However lets not be partitionist about it, but it has been noted that Gerry Adams isn't the most briefed on southern economic issues, you'll find Mary Lou will be streets ahead.
As for it being a slow suicide in a national government, well time will tell when the country is unified and a national governement is elected by all the people of the island.
But to answer your point, why would you think it would be a slow suicide? I think the mainstream right wing parties who have brought this state to it's knees economically are more to blame for any slow suicide, i'd be interested to hear your views.

Mary Lou, ahh Mary Lou.
What was her career description again at one stage, peace negotiator or something ?
How many parties did she try until she finally got to run for election ?

I guess all those buying their fuel in the South and their beer in the North would gladly welcome united Ireland :rolleyes:
And besides what would the guys in South Armagh do ?

SF policies will only sell to the unemployed and people on very basic income.
Saying that their consituency is increasing all the time :mad:

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would never for any reason support SF in goverment.

enlighten us. please.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

I dont understand why people have a problem with SF.

bbc.co.uk wrote:

Detective Jerry McCabe was killed and another officer wounded during an attempted robbery at Adare in County Limerick in June 1996.

Four men were later convicted of his manslaughter and Sinn Fein has been calling for their release under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

yomchi

jmayo wrote: »

Mary Lou, ahh Mary Lou.
What was her career description again at one stage, peace negotiator or something ?
How many parties did she try until she finally got to run for election ?

I guess all those buying their fuel in the South and their beer in the North would gladly welcome united Ireland :rolleyes:
And besides what would the guys in South Armagh do ?

SF policies will only sell to the unemployed and people on very basic income.
Saying that their consituency is increasing all the time :mad:

Roll out the ignorance, cheap shots and revisionism all the ingredients needed to make the big 'I've no idea what i'm talking about' cake.

Why don't you tell us how many parties Mary Lou was a member of and for how long. Do you know?

LordSutch

But the woman speaks in soudbites. I listened to her for all of ten minutes on the TV last night and I heard nothing new, apart from "People have a right to be free" > "Everybody's vote should be equal" > "My vote is no more important than your vote" > "Let me be perfectly clear about this" > "The Government should work for all the people" > "We will do away with poverty & seperatisim" > "We will do this & we will do that, we also demand this & that" etc etc etc :rolleyes:

If you listen closely to her, she actually says nothing new!

the_syco

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

If SF got in and applied a higher corpo rate, it'd be a quick suicide.

Dob74 wrote: »

Well, I understand if you are a drug dealer and dont want to be knee-capped.

The 'RA only knee-capped you if you didn't pay protection money.

djpbarry wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

Agreed.

=-=

Would never support SF in government. They seem to be out of touch with how f**ked we'd be if they increased the tax for foreign corpo's, and as I work in one, I ain't voting them in. They do great work up the north, I won't deny that, but they should think of staying up there.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Leaving aside any bias regarding their past and the many unanswered questions Gerry Adams remains deaf to. The speech was hackneyed, and trite. He played to his audience and never once proposed anything concrete. I would never vote for any government involving SF as they have never come up with a single proposal that demonstrated any iota of understanding of how an ecomony works. They just knock what others propose or come out with generalisations that suggest they think Tax Tax and Tax are the only way forward. If I didn't know better I'd think they have Maxist Leninist tendancies.
As regard a governemet of "National Unity" there are argumnets that we need an opposition to keep our system of Government honest. (Hard to imagine it less honest but the argument still holds.

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

Anyway this is going way OT

Some support SF, some dont, some support FF, some dont and so on.

As for who to put in the next Government, god knows.

One things for certain though, a change a needed.

Liam Byrne

rarnes1 wrote: »

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

Here we go again.......is anyone asking us to vote for the Shankill butchers ?
So the above is completely and utterly irrelevant.

A perfectly valid reason was posted for not voting SF, and you reply with an equally valid reason for not voting for someone else ? :rolleyes:

Is that somehow supposed to negate the 100% validity of the earlier reason ?

Imagine this one:

Mick : "Bertie's dodgy, so I'm not voting for him"
Paddy : "Well, Joe down the road is dodgy too...."
Mick : "Really ? Guess I'll vote for Bertie so."

:rolleyes:

HydeRoad

There's only one thing worse than a government party funded by builders, developers, bankers, and brown envelopes.

That would be a government party funded by bombers, murderers, smugglers, extortionists and their ragbag apologists.

No thanks.

road_2_damascus

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

...its easy to have your view-point if you did not grow up under the yoke of the British regime, which in itself, was criminality protected by government, first under Heath and continued under Thatcher

LordSutch

road_2_damascus wrote: »

...its easy to have your view-point if you did not grow up under the yoke of the British regime, which in itself, was criminality protected by government, first under Heath and continued under Thatcher

Ah yes Gerry, the excuses because of the British Regime, Queens has a lot to answer for

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Here we go again.......is anyone asking us to vote for the Shankill butchers ?

At this stage we might be as well to bury the carving knife and give them a go. Cuts are needed after all.

Camelot wrote:

Ah yes Gerry, the excuses because of the British Regime, Queens has a lot to answer for

Well, it wasn't because of Lichtenstein, or Portugal, (which is a shame..imagine if paddys day was like this....

djpbarry

rarnes1 wrote: »

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

I don't care. The case of Jerry McCabe illustrates the utter hypocrisy of Sinn Féin. I will allow John Minihan to explain:

John Minihan wrote:

The IRA statement on the day was that none of its volunteers or units was in any way involved in the incident in Adare, that there was absolutely no IRA involvement. Mr. Adams denounced the killing of Jerry McCabe as totally and absolutely wrong. He indignantly attacked those who sought to link Sinn Féin to the killing. Two days later, the IRA admitted responsibility. Having done so, it then set about undermining the justice system in the State by intimidating witnesses. One witness served 18 months in prison for contempt of court rather than give evidence. We should not forget this.

I have a difficulty with the fact that Pearse McAuley, who was involved in this incident, was only 12 months out of Portlaoise Prison at the time. Those involved have shown absolutely no remorse for their actions on that day. One of the first steps in reconciliation is a show of remorse. What we have is the glorification of the act and the manufacturing of bodhráns signed by the McCabe killers for export to the United States. Sinn Féin Members of the Oireachtas have posed with the killers for photographs.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=SEN20040519.xml&Dail=29&Ex=All&Page=9

rarnes1 wrote: »

The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

The Shankill butchers were scum too. Happy now?

rarnes1 wrote: »

Anyway this is going way OT

This is not off-topic. We're talking about the (remote) possibility of Sinn Fein in government and I am explaining why they will never enjoy my support.

yomchi

Another thread ruined.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

O'Morris

I think Sinn Fein has a bright future in the 26 counties but I'm not sure about Gerry Adams' Sinn Fein. I think there'll be a split in the party in the next few months over the issue of immigration. The emergence of an anti-mass-immigration party is almost inevitable in the current climate but I don't think it will be a right-wing, anti-Sinner party. I can see it coming from the nationalist working-class Sein Feiners who make up most of the party's front-line activists and from whom they get most of their support. I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn. An anti-mass-immigration version of Sinn Fein would be almost certain to get a huge level of support among working-class voters in both parts of the country.

Of course the provos could prevent this happening by changing their attitude to mass immigration. They could look at changing their policies so that they better reflect the views of their voters. If they did that they would see a massive increase in their share of the vote. I can't see it happening though. Gerry Adams is too much of a left-winger.

yomchi

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me or my views, you've missed the point. A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin. Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance. Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

As for Nationalistic Socialist views - are you insinuating I'm a fascist?

I don't see the need for you inverted comma's on the term national government - what about that deserves your Sics??

Also FYI, the word Chara means Friend in our national language. Don't be afraid of it, I prefer to use it instead of such titles as 'bud' - 'buddie' or 'mate' -

ceart go leor chara?

I repeat - another thread ruined.

yomchi

O'Morris wrote: »

I think Sinn Fein has a bright future in the 26 counties but I'm not sure about Gerry Adams' Sinn Fein. I think there'll be a split in the party in the next few months over the issue of immigration. The emergence of an anti-mass-immigration party is almost inevitable in the current climate but I don't think it will be a right-wing, anti-Sinner party. I can see it coming from the nationalist working-class Sein Feiners who make up most of the party's front-line activists and from whom they get most of their support. I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn. An anti-mass-immigration version of Sinn Fein would be almost certain to get a huge level of support among working-class voters in both parts of the country.

Of course the provos could prevent this happening by changing their attitude to mass immigration. They could look at changing their policies so that they better reflect the views of their voters. If they did that they would see a massive increase in their share of the vote. I can't see it happening though. Gerry Adams is too much of a left-winger.

I commend your attempt to talk policy chara, or is mate better suited?

However you are a trillion miles off the mark. There will be no split based on the immigration policy. Also the front line activists are by and large are not simply nationalist, especially in the south. The front line activists are very much a left wing bunch.
Tragically, racism is around in abundance and it should be confronted head on. I can assure you SF will not changing it'a policies to appease some sort of half educated rascist bloc that exists on building sights, or any where for that matter.

Nodin

O'Morris wrote: »

I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn.

Personally, I'd take that as a ringing endorsement. Anyone who thinks Republicanism is about whinging at immigrants, 'they tuk de jabs' and 'dem nijeerians an tha free cars' is badly mistaken. Thats the kind of thing we don't want.

Liam Byrne

Jon wrote: »

A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin. Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance. Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

The politics of Sinn Fein are not contained in soundbytes and speeches; they are contained in their actions, which unfortunately include everything mentioned above.

So we ARE discussing what they stand for, ergo their politics.

Having Gerry Adams and his party talk about justice and criminality - while still doing the above - is like having FF talk about accountability and open-ness. :rolleyes:

If Gerry & Co - or Cowen & Co, for that matter - don't like our views of their actions, then they need to change their actions and excuses.

Simple as.

djpbarry

Jon wrote: »

A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin.

Go ahead – discuss them. Beyond the whole ‘United Ireland’ malarkey, I don’t think Sinn Féin have any concrete policies. They’re a one-trick pony.

Jon wrote: »

Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance.

You might point out the inaccuracies in what I said. A party’s support of murderers is a perfectly valid reason for myself (and others) not to support said party.

Jon wrote: »

Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

Do Sinn Féin realise that? Checked out the merchandise in their shop lately, have ya?

yomchi

djpbarry wrote: »

Go ahead – discuss them. Beyond the whole ‘United Ireland’ malarkey, I don’t think Sinn Féin have any concrete policies. They’re a one-trick pony.
You might point out the inaccuracies in what I said. A party’s support of murderers is a perfectly valid reason for myself (and others) not to support said party.
Do Sinn Féin realise that? Checked out the merchandise in their shop lately, have ya?

LOL Touché

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

O'Morris

Jon wrote:

I commend your attempt to talk policy chara, or is mate better suited?

Sean Buachail! Nil fhios agam an focal gaeilge le "chum" ach is feider leat "sean chara" a usaid.

Jon wrote:

However you are a trillion miles off the mark. There will be no split based on the immigration policy.

I don't think it will be a major split. The party membership will remain mostly the same. I think it will be similar to what happened in the 1980s with republican sinn fein only with less publicity i.e. no major walkout. A small breakaway group of disgruntled Sinn Fein supporters will eventually regroup as a political party with the words "Sinn Fein" in their name. In time that party will grow and it will overtake the provos in the 26 counties and possibly in the 6 counties as well.

Jon wrote:

Also the front line activists are by and large are not simply nationalist, especially in the south.

They are nationalists though and I think many of them would not be happy about the direction the country is heading in. I think many of them can see the contradiction of a nationalist party like Sinn Fein being big fans of mass immigration.

Jon wrote:

I can assure you SF will not changing it'a policies to appease some sort of half educated rascist bloc that exists on building sights, or any where for that matter.

It's not about appeasing a half-educated racist bloc. It's not racist to be concerned about the short-term economic consequences and the long-term cultural consequences of mass immigration.

donegalfella wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Did you not do Irish for the leaving cert? How could you not know that the word chara means friend.

I bet even djpbarry knew what it meant.

yomchi

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

riiiiight.... :rolleyes:

If thats the best you can come up with. Pathetic really.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

yomchi

O'Morris wrote: »

Sean Buachail! Nil fhios agam an focal gaeilge le "chum" ach is feider leat "sean chara" a usaid.




I don't think it will be a major split. The party membership will remain mostly the same. I think it will be similar to what happened in the 1980s with republican sinn fein only with less publicity i.e. no major walkout. A small breakaway group of disgruntled Sinn Fein supporters will eventually regroup as a political party with the words "Sinn Fein" in their name. In time that party will grow and it will overtake the provos in the 26 counties and possibly in the 6 counties as well.




They are nationalists though and I think many of them would not be happy about the direction the country is heading in. I think many of them can see the contradiction of a nationalist party like Sinn Fein being big fans of mass immigration.




It's not about appeasing a half-educated racist bloc. It's not racist to be concerned about the short-term economic consequences and the long-term cultural consequences of mass immigration.




Did you not do Irish for the leaving cert? How could you not know that the word chara means friend.

I bet even djpbarry knew what it meant.

Ah maith go leor, an focail 'sean chara' = old friend.

Just about the highlighted paragraph. I disagree, I can't see that happening at all to be honest. In 1986, the split occured when the Adams leadership pushed through a dropping of abstentionism from Leinster house and a handful followed Ruari O'Bradaigh out of the Árd Fheis to set up RSF. They are a stagnent and ageing group!

Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I seem to remember an attempt at a similar alliance of convenience between the Zionist "Stern Gang" and the Nazis. Likewise one might point to the unlikely alliance of American demorcrats seeking aid from French monarchists and other unlikely bedfellows throughout history. In the rush to try and score a point, these things tend to be missed, it seems.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You'll find the constitution disagrees with you.

Amazing the sneers and jibes that accompany the use of ones native tongue.