Golden Circle Named

Pride Fighter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781014.ece
4 of the 10 golden circle have been named in this article. Scoundrels the lot of them.

Pride Fighter

Taken from above

Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly, Seamus Ross and Jerry Conlan are four of the businessmen who secretly bought 10% of Anglo Irish Bank with the bank’s own cash

gman2k

Well spotted Pride Fighter

mike65

Exactly the names and in the line of business one would expect.

AlekSmart

I presume that can be prefaced with the word......."allegedly"...

Profiler

It also suggests that a founder of a property company in Belfast might also be one of the 10

thebman

Great, hopefull the rest are named and shamed.

Oh I forgot, they are heroes :rolleyes:

Exactly who you'd expect the government to support. Disgusts me TBH.

Pride Fighter

It gets intersting

Conlan is the least well-known of the four. He sold 400 acres of land he co-owned in Naas, Co Kildare, known as Millennium Park, for €340m. He used much of the proceeds to found the Mount Carmel Medical Group which owns a maternity hospital in Rathfarnham, south Dublin. Mount Carmel has been appointed by the Health Service Executive to build private hospitals on the grounds of public hospitals as part of the co-location strategy.

This Jerry Conlon is involved in private hospitals being co-located. What slime, Harney should resign ASAP

thebman

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It gets intersting



This Jerry Conlon is involved in private hospitals being co-located. What slime, Harney should resign ASAP

One of the first things I noticed too.

If they get away with this, I'll be so fooking mad I may kill one of the fookers.

24. Gannon Homes
Location: Dublin
Turnover: €107.9 million (Dec 31, 2004)
Profit: €6.38 million
Last year’s position: 34 Gannon Homes was founded in 1984 by owner and current managing director Gerry Gannon, who is one of the biggest landowners in Dublin.
Gannon paid €105million for a 208 acre Belcamp College site in Dublin in 2004 and is planning a major development on the site. The company is building several major residential schemes in north Dublin, including the Robswall development in Malahide and the Capital North project in Dublin 13. These projects have a combined end value of more than €1 billion

1. John Sisk & Sons
Location: Dublin
Turnover: €799.34 million (Dec 31, 2004)
Profit: €38.68 million
Last year’s position: 1
Sisk’s turnover of almost €800 million is more than double that of its nearest competitor and the company’s profit's are among the highest of any construction firm. The company built the Dundrum Town Centre for Castlethorn Construction and also built Croke Park for the GAA. It is expected to win the contract to build the next phase of The Square shopping centre in Tallaght, Dublin.

first two from this link, article entitled:
Property boom fuels €7bn turnover for Top 50
http://businesspro.ie/pressreleases/press_2006_02.htm

LONGFORD-BORN builder Seamus Ross and his wife Moira own Menolly Homes, the country's largest housebuilding firm. Their son Seamus Ross Jnr is also involved in the firm which specialises in developing large housing sites in Dublin's suburbs.

In 2003, Mr Ross made the headlines when he told the Planning Tribunal that he paid former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor €40,000 in 1996 to get the postal address of a housing site changed from Clondalkin to Lucan. The change enhanced the value of his homes by up to €5,000 per house.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/builder-moving-into-hospitality-1341281.html

* The Mount Carmel Group, formerly the Harlequin Healthcare Group, is headed by Jerry Conlan from Kildare.

He set up Harlequin in 2003 and it owns St Joseph's in Sligo, Aut Even in Kilkenny and Mount Carmel in Dublin. The group also includes businessman Philip Lynch, who is the chairman of the development board for the new national children's hospital to be built on the Mater site.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/developers-who-won-the-contracts-993535.html

Under the Finance Act 2001, substantial tax exemptions are allowed for the building and refurbishment of buildings used as private hospitals. In practice, this means a top-rate taxpayer investing 1m qualifies for a tax break of 410,000 over seven years.

"There's a number of schemes marketing these investments in private hospitals to highincome individuals like lawyers and consultants, " says Labour Party spokeswoman on finance Joan Burton. "Potentially, we are building up to 30 hospitals with a hundred beds or less in each of them. If you take it that they cost 30bn, the tax write-off, at 40%, comes to more than 1.2bn. A lot of the very rich people who benefited from the car-park tax reliefs are going to benefit from this too.

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/sep/30/what-happens-when-our-healthcare-becomes-dependent/

Just some quick quotes from google searches for these peoples names with the appropriate links to the sites I got the quotes from. I think these people would have got on fine without average Joe public bailing them out TBH but hey I'm not friends with them, maybe there is something I don't know about them.

The Raven.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It gets intersting

This Jerry Conlon is involved in private hospitals being co-located. What slime, Harney should resign ASAP

And the plot thickens. At the end of the Wiki article I cited in the other golden circle thread, it states the following.

Worringly [sic], McEvaddy is very closely associated with Ireland's current Minister for Health and Children, Ms. Mary Harney TD, and has been influential in her privatisation agenda for the highly dysfunctional and inequitable Irish health service.

He is also described as 'one of the main contributors' to Libertas.

xOxSinéadxOx

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It gets intersting



This Jerry Conlon is involved in private hospitals being co-located. What slime, Harney should resign ASAP

harney should just resign anyway

old boy

lets not let them get away with any more ****, we have been rode two often. we have to stand up,

dave-higgz

Does anyone know the sources for this article. I'm a bit sceptical.

1) They're a British Paper. Why isn't the Irish Media reporting this first??

2) Who supplied these names to the times and why?

3) Why are only 4 of the names leaked and not the 10. I always thought 10 was too even a number to have. Maybe there's only 4??

thebman

Could be any number of reaons.

If I had to guess I'd say that they accused one sayin they had evidence and he agreed to give the names of 4 others but not the lot as if he gave the names of the other 9, it would be kind of obvious who gave the names :P

stakey

dave-higgz wrote: »

Does anyone know the sources for this article. I'm a bit sceptical.

1) They're a British Paper. Why isn't the Irish Media reporting this first??

2) Who supplied these names to the times and why?

3) Why are only 4 of the names leaked and not the 10. I always thought 10 was too even a number to have. Maybe there's only 4??

1) Good chance of getting sued under Irish law.

2) Local journo's not able to publish the names in an Irish paper.

3) Sell more papers, get more readers for 6-10 on Monday.

NewDubliner

dave-higgz wrote: »

They're a British Paper. Why isn't the Irish Media reporting this first??

Irish media owners part of the Golden Circle?:eek:

Diogenes

dave-higgz wrote: »

Does anyone know the sources for this article. I'm a bit sceptical.

1) They're a British Paper. Why isn't the Irish Media reporting this first??

The article is in the Sunday Times, The Irish times is amalgemated with the British Times on a Sunday. Never noticed that theres no Irish Times on a Sunday?

:rolleyes:

joolsveer

I don't know that there is a connection between the Sunday Times and the Irish Times.

jprender

These guys got 30mill worth of shares and were only exposed to 25% of this if things went t1ts up. Right or wrong, I know I would have taken that gamble.
On the face of it, I don't think this golden shower did much wrong. They were offered a super deal and they jumped at it. It was business to members of the Golden Circle, nothing more. If they pay the 25% that they had risked, I don't see a problem with what they have done.

IMO it is the powers at Anglo who came up with that scheme that need to be punished.
The financial regulators who just let it happen need to be punished.
The Govt who bailed out this bank and have now exposed the taxpayer to huge losses need to be punished.


And who do you think is being punished at the mo? The real "heroes", ordinary joes like you and me.

NewDubliner

jprender wrote: »

These guys got 30mill worth of shares and were only exposed to 25% of this if things went t1ts up. Right or wrong, I know I would have taken that gamble.

I think it was more like 475m in total?

The reason the 'investors' risk exposure is so low was the use of nominee companies. Given that the whole transaction was artificial and highly questionable in terms of the Companies Act. I think that any limitation on liability afforded to the investors by the Companies Act should be set aside and these 'investors' be made personally liable for full amount they guaranteed.

I think we're too easily accepting that the government will write off the 300m.

While the culprits probably have their assets well protected in mazes of trusts and companies, making them personally bankrupt and seizing their trophy homes would send the right message to both the financial boyos and to the general public. It would remove any doubt that the transaction was inspired by the government itself.

jprender

NewDubliner wrote: »

I think it was more like 475m in total?

Sorry about that, it's hard to keep up with all of the figures flying around at the mo.


Did these guys do anything illegal ? If so, then definitely they should pay in spades and I retract my earlier statement.

I still believe though that the bank/regulator/govt need to be hammered on this. How about the board of Anglo and the (ex)regulator cough up the shortfall?

Live by the sword, die by the sword I say.

NewDubliner

jprender wrote: »

Did these guys do anything illegal ?

It would be unwise to say so unless it comes to court and you're the judge whose job it is to decide.

But, it must be fair game to speculate on the motivation of those involved. I can think of only two reasons for the transaction to exist. One is that privileged customers were being given a low-risk, no-cost chance to own part of what seemed to be a very successful bank. The other is that these guys were complicit in manipulating the bank's share price out of some sense of corporate patriotism. Now, why would they want to do that?

Rod & Reel

What you say Dubliner sounds great for the people but i think what JP above you is more to the fact than any of us care to think.

Anglo set this up in order to keep there market price high in the stocks. They needed a couple of million to do this. they borrow you me or whoever the money to buy the shares and tell us that if it goes wrong down the line we only need to pay back 25% if it goes good, you me or whoever is in for a windfall.

Now tell me if you or anyone else here went to tesco's and got E100 of food vouchers from the manager and tells you, you only need to pay me back E25 if Tesco's close. ye would'nt take arm and all.

Do not think for 1 second i condone this sort of behaviour because i dont. But this country was a awash with so much speculated money it was hard to think it would ever end.

But again i think what the ten did was just business. Big Business. 45 million (10%) is prob a lot to a lot of people on here but to then its just prob same as 4500 Euros to us.
e4500 wouldnt break us and we would be ok if we lost it. we wouldnt like it but we could get on with it.

IMO

Regards Rod

Sad Professor

Diogenes wrote: »

The article is in the Sunday Times, The Irish times is amalgemated with the British Times on a Sunday. Never noticed that theres no Irish Times on a Sunday?

No. The Irish Times and The Sunday Times have nothing to do with each other.

NewDubliner

Rod & Reel wrote: »

Do not think for 1 second i condone this sort of behaviour because i dont. But this country was a awash with so much speculated money it was hard to think it would ever end.

If they were in it for profit, then they should also be liable for the downside risks. Isn't that how the private-sector, free market works?

The other issue is how this special offer with was made available only to carefully selected 'investors'.

It's not too late for the government to strip the protective layers of nominee companies away from the 'investors'.

Diogenes

joolsveer wrote: »

I don't know that there is a connection between the Sunday Times and the Irish Times.

You're right my apologises I made a mistake, the Irish Times just doesn't publish a Sunday Edition, However the Sunday Times (news Corp) does publish an Irish Edition, exclusive to Ireland, where many articles are included that do not appear in the British Edition.

Mela Culpa.

As to the the whole "why is a British Paper Publishing this" Well it's not because of Libel, if you recall Albert Reynolds pursued his libel action against the Sunday Times in English courts rather than Irish courts, because he favoured the outcome there.

It'll be one of these stories to watch, if the ST is confident of their source (and they'd bloody better be) they've no fear of libel.

If I was hopelessly cynical (and I should point out I've worked in news media for about four years) I'd point out (and this is only coming to me) the ST is one of the few Irish papers without a property section. Perhaps the Indo/IT/Examiner et all were worried about naming and shaming some very big advertisers and leaked it to a paper that doesn't have anything to worry about in that respect.

Rod & Reel

NewDubliner wrote: »

If they were in it for profit, then they should also be liable for the downside risks. Isn't that how the private-sector, free market works?

The other issue is how this special offer with was made available only to carefully selected 'investors'.

It's not too late for the government to strip the protective layers of nominee companies away from the 'investors'.

NB what good would this do. They would still only be liable for 25% of the loan value. That is what they signed on the dotted line to do.

If the goverment was to go ahead and try and get the full amount back from the 10 this could create a massive dominoe affect around the country.
If these 10 are among the 10 richest in the country they would be employing a lot of people, both generating revenue which is badly needed and keeping people in thier homes at a time when the other banks are reposseing houses.
So if Brian and Co did go ahead the cost of strippimg these people of there assests would be far greater than 451 Million in the long run.

Regards Rod

Davo D

No journalist or politician in Ireland wanted to be involved in giving up the names. The names were always going to be leaked by someone at the top.

The question is now, where do we go from here?

Sleipnir

Rod & Reel wrote: »

NB what good would this do. They would still only be liable for 25% of the loan value. That is what they signed on the dotted line to do.

If the goverment was to go ahead and try and get the full amount back from the 10 this could create a massive dominoe affect around the country.
If these 10 are among the 10 richest in the country they would be employing a lot of people, both generating revenue which is badly needed and keeping people in thier homes at a time when the other banks are reposseing houses.
So if Brian and Co did go ahead the cost of strippimg these people of there assests would be far greater than 451 Million in the long run.

Regards Rod

So we should just let it slide because they employ a lot of people and generate revenue? That's a great civilisation you have there!
I do understand your reasoning but all these dirty deals are why we're in the mess we are.

irishbran77

A friend reported to me yesterday that the protests in Dublin made the national television news in the US with footage of the city. They claimed 150,000 marched ont he streets. BBC said it could have been 120,000 up to 200,000. Organisers themselves claimed the figure was 200,000 while the Gardai put the number of marchers at 120,000.

RTE used the words 'tends of thousands' and later said 'up to a hundred thousand' marchers were present... Why do we put up with these corrupt 'journalists'?

I just thought it might explain why the Irish papers are less than hesitent to cover these scandels in our country beyond the bare minimum necessary.

mike65

RTE is just inept much of the time, someone looked out the window and filed a report, being the weekend nobody was around to update it for hours.

Newstalk are refusing to name the "Sunday Times Four"

Capt'n Midnight

jprender wrote:

On the face of it, I don't think this golden shower did much wrong. They were offered a super deal and they jumped at it. It was business to members of the Golden Circle, nothing more. If they pay the 25% that they had risked, I don't see a problem with what they have done.

AFAIK share support schemes like this are illegal in the UK and US. Many countries have laws that allow prosecution of their citizens for crimes against their laws even if commited abroad.

If any of the golden circle are non-residents for Irish tax purposes then we should check to see if they broke the laws where they are resident and if they are liable to prosecution there.

mike65

RTE are avoiding naming as well, Add Today FM to that.

The broadcast meeeja are clearly scared of a visit to the high courts.

darc

Gee, wow. Everyone is up in arms about a group of poeple that did a side deal to keep the value of their private bank up. - This is a MINOR story.

Anglo was a bank that operated for a group of approx. 100 customers. These probably represented abut 80% of their business. - They are in fact still profitable and the potential losses mentioned in the gutter press will never come about.

The scandal which seeems to be forgotten is how all banks were allowed to operate the way the did and why did so many people get into so much debt without checking out the reality of things.

Everyone has to take blame for the current situation and everyone needs to pay to clean the mess up. -

Why did people fork out 700k for a 3 bed semi in south Dublin.

Why did people threathen to move their banking elsewhere if they did not get an over the top mortgage?

Why did so many people put in their mortage application that they were renting out a room - knowing that this was false.

Why did Irish "investors" create such a bubble in house prices in Poland & Latvia & Bulgaria and in the process cause problems for locals?

In reality it was Joe Public who went and bid the prices higher, Joe Banker who gave him the money & Joe Builder who willingly took the money. - All to blame - all to pay.


So instead of looking for who to blame for spilt milk, we should be implementing strict prodedures & regulations immediately so that people who can buy houses, can do so, & healthy business can obtain funding for expansion.

mike65

Well duh!

Nodin

jprender wrote: »

These guys got 30mill worth of shares and were only exposed to 25% of this if things went t1ts up. Right or wrong, I know I would have taken that gamble.
On the face of it, I don't think this golden shower did much wrong. They were offered a super deal and they jumped at it. It was business to members of the Golden Circle, nothing more. If they pay the 25% that they had risked, I don't see a problem with what they have done.

The problem is that Anglo financed the buy of its own shares. It told the Government that it had found investors, but neglected to mention that it was the one giving them the money to invest. The reason theres so much interest in the names is in case they're linked to Fianna Fail. The ones looking very (allegedly) fvken guilty are the few in Anglo who organised this.

nice_guy80

I always knew that those tax breaks for PRIVATE hospitals were designed to allow profiteering for people close to Fianna Fail and the PDs

and also explains why Harney is so insistant on them being built - despite the fact that it will push up private healthcare costs

NewDubliner

Rod & Reel wrote: »

NB what good would this do. They would still only be liable for 25% of the loan value. That is what they signed on the dotted line to do.

What kind of loan can you get where you're only liable to pay back 25%? This sounds more like a share option scheme.

Rod & Reel wrote: »

If the government was to go ahead and try and get the full amount back from the 10 this could create a massive dominoe affect around the country.

You mean that a debt is not a debt? That people who owe money don't have to pay it back? Tell that to the taxpayers. Tell that to ordinary 'Bronze Circle' business people whose loans are being foreclosed.

The message to business and to international observers would be very valuable: that we don't tolerate bad business practices. If the privilege of limited liability is being abused, we need to change it.

As to the workers you suggest are effectively held hostage by the investors, if the businesses are viable they should be allowed to continue, but the profits should go to the taxpayer who now owns the debt.

P. Breathnach

darc wrote: »

Gee, wow. Everyone is up in arms about a group of poeple that did a side deal to keep the value of their private bank up. - This is a MINOR story...

I almost agree. It's a relatively minor story. In normal times, it would be a huge scandal.

People are being deflected from the bigger problems by focusing on relatively smaller ones. But I don't believe the people should escape speeding fines on the grounds that there is an unsolved murder somewhere -- nor do I think the speeding fine should be splashed on the front pages of the newspapers.

ionix5891

dave-higgz wrote: »

3) Why are only 4 of the names leaked and not the 10. I always thought 10 was too even a number to have. Maybe there's only 4??

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59125510&postcount=105


on another note im not surprised Libertas is connected

the donators to them need to be named and shamed as well

i cant believe how corrupt this country is

I M Wright

GREAT ARTICLE!

thebman wrote: »

One of the first things I noticed too.

If they get away with this, I'll be so fooking mad I may kill one of the fookers.





first two from this link, article entitled:
Property boom fuels €7bn turnover for Top 50
http://businesspro.ie/pressreleases/press_2006_02.htm


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/builder-moving-into-hospitality-1341281.html



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/developers-who-won-the-contracts-993535.html


http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/sep/30/what-happens-when-our-healthcare-becomes-dependent/

Just some quick quotes from google searches for these peoples names with the appropriate links to the sites I got the quotes from. I think these people would have got on fine without average Joe public bailing them out TBH but hey I'm not friends with them, maybe there is something I don't know about them.

thebigcheese22

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I always knew that those tax breaks for PRIVATE hospitals were designed to allow profiteering for people close to Fianna Fail and the PDs

and also explains why Harney is so insistant on them being built - despite the fact that it will push up private healthcare costs

Well I hate Harney as much as most people, but she probably insisted on them being built coz its part of her warped idealogy.

She left Fianna Fail because of its corruption, I just don't think she'd engage in the same kind of bull****.

Don't get me wrong, she is incompetent and idealogical-driven but I dont think she's corrupt.

Could be wrong tho...

yoshytoshy

Some people are saying this is ok ,I don't understand ?

The bank has falsely generated business ,it has decieved it's own creditors.
This is the very thing that drove house prices up and got us in this mess in the first place.

D.S.

jprender wrote: »

On the face of it, I don't think this golden shower did much wrong. They were offered a super deal and they jumped at it. It was business to members of the Golden Circle, nothing more. If they pay the 25% that they had risked, I don't see a problem with what they have done.

IMO it is the powers at Anglo who came up with that scheme that need to be punished.
The financial regulators who just let it happen need to be punished.
The Govt who bailed out this bank and have now exposed the taxpayer to huge losses need to be punished.


And who do you think is being punished at the mo? The real "heroes", ordinary joes like you and me.

+ 1 here..I am sorry but on the face of it, if all these guys did was take a speculative investment because Anglo came calling, then this was common practice during the boom. These guys were offered super deals. It appears that Anglo behaved dispicably, the regulator was asleep, and the Government had inadequate controls to ensure the regulator was doing his job.

NewDubliner wrote: »

The reason the 'investors' risk exposure is so low was the use of nominee companies. Given that the whole transaction was artificial and highly questionable in terms of the Companies Act. I think that any limitation on liability afforded to the investors by the Companies Act should be set aside and these 'investors' be made personally liable for full amount they guaranteed.

Again I am not sure about this, there doesn't appear to be any clear evidence that there was intent to perform an illegal act on behalf of the Golden 10??

jprender wrote: »

Did these guys do anything illegal ? If so, then definitely they should pay in spades and I retract my earlier statement.

Bingo, + 1. There is no clear evidence they did.

They should be absolutely liable for any loans to Anglo. Regardless of whether there is viable collateral with the bank, the bank should still pursue these outstanding debts to the full.

However, that been said, does anyone else not notice that alot of the reporting seems to be trying to incriminate these 10 guys purely because:

1) we don't know who they are (and we seem to want the Government to spill the beans regardless of any client confidentiality rights they have)
2) they are extremely wealthy and everyone Irish will begrudge anyone with a few pound.

We have not one concrete report that any of these 10 are refusing to pay back their outstanding debt?? So therefore, where is the illegality? What was the exact illegality of the original investments on behalf of the investors??

Perhaps, more dirty laundery will come out in the next few weeks that we are not currently aware of now. However, I am sick to death of 1) the unbelievably sensationalist, inaccurate, witch-hunt reporting which the Irish media continues to get away with and 2) the general public attitude that we MUST have someone to blame for this mess.

This cause of this mess is EVERYONE's fault. If Anglo hadn't existed as a bank, we'd still be bailing out the other institutions, we'd still have ridiculous exchequer borrowing. Absolutely, Anglo is a shambles. A joke institution that has embarassed the nation, and killed our Credit Rating internationally. But they are a sideshow. We are so hellbent on blaming these guys for everything we are ignoring we are in a serious mess. This nation (and we were warned) were overburdened with personal loans, credit card debt, mortgages, and hire purchase finance. We accepted high prices and we went on a property binge both home and away. No bank manager but a gun to any punter's head and forced him/her to take out all this credit. We accepted and tolerated a lazy Government who wasted 10 years of a boom. Voter turnouts were abysmal and so inadequate change and investment never came. Our Government fueled a property boom through incenives like mortgage relief and stamp duty relief. Developers and banks followed by maximising business and profit in this area and in turn our economy became over reliant on one sector. We had no diversification, no where else to go when things went bad.

Sorry for the rant, but Anglo and the Golden 10 are a sideshow. Lenihan and Cowen (presuming they don't get ousted) need to focus on cutting public sector spending, increasing credit flows, bringing stability and regulation to the banking sector, diversifying the economy in the long term, bringing new foreign direct investment, getting exchequer borrowing back in line.

There's a lot to be done. And the media/public are focusing their energy, and in turn the government's attention, on a blame game. We risking taking the Government's eye off the ball. We should be screaming bloody murder for quicker reform in banking, health, public sector spending, long term capital investment, education etc etc. We should be marching against the 100,000 public sector workers because at the end of the day, the government need to make the hard choices..

But no, we just wanna talk about a couple of v rich investors who may or may not have done anything wrong.

mike65

The Golden Circle are of interest cos of who they are, who they know and what they represent. They do have questions to answer - about colluding with a Bank to boost its market valuation.

yoshytoshy

If I'm to work for the next twenty years or so ,I want to know exactly were my money is going.

It's not fair that a handful of people with such short lives ,get a countries wealth through deals like this.

D.S.

mike65 wrote: »

The Golden Circle are of interest cos of who they are, who they know and what they represent.

Not unless they have done anything wrong and we have concrete evidence. They are not public representatives. They have a right to privacy unless there is evidence to suggest they've done something wrong.

mike65 wrote: »

They do have questions to answer - about colluding with a Bank to boost its market valuation.

Absolutely, they may have questions to answer. All we know right now is that they have had dealings with Anglo. Definitely they should be expected to deal with all investigations. My point simply is the reporting and public attitude is prejudging the situation. We have no facts, just insinuations.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It's not fair that a handful of people with such short lives ,get a countries wealth through deals like this.

I don't really understand this comment. There is no evidence that the Golden 10 got anything from the country, or that they are refusing to pay back their debts???

yoshytoshy

D.S. wrote: »

I don't really understand this comment. There is no evidence that the Golden 10 got anything from the country, or that they are refusing to pay back their debts???

Thats not the issue I'm talking about ,this deal is one of many that has been going on for years.

When we see our economy doing well the last ten years ,some of it was driven by deals like this.
Projects got the go ahead on the strenght of bank and v rich friendship.
This is why we are one of the worst affected countries now and not because of young couples looking to start a life together.

dhorgan3

Where do you teach DS? Or am I wrong in thinking you like to correct people:pac:

Ronan|Raven

Useless bit of information #128 A certain current Taoiseach opened a hotel owned by Gannon in this persons town a few years back.

D.S.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Thats not the issue I'm talking about ,this deal is one of many that has been going on for years.

When we see our economy doing well the last ten years ,some of it was driven by deals like this.
Projects got the go ahead on the strenght of bank and v rich friendship.
This is why we are one of the worst affected countries now and not because of young couples looking to start a life together.

We're not the worst affected. Everyone is in the doghouse - Iceland, England, Germany, U.S. to name but a few in serious trouble.

Deal will always be driven by friendship. You won't do a deal for millions of euro with someone you don't know or trust. What do you expect? Banks always forge relationships with successful people? That's actually something banks do well and should continue you to do well.

The problem is that Banks took too much risk. Anglo has c*cked up rightly with the Golden 10 because the collateral was the shares themself, rather than property, or bonds etc.

Just becuase you are a young couple looking to start a life together, doesn't make you a sound reason to get a loan. Banks messed up here too, giving people of all ages too much credit on property which was overvalued and liable to fall in value in the future.

Serious reform is needed with regards to lending practices and risk management.

Good banking relationships though, I'd argue, are fundamental to successful banking.