Social Welfare Ireland / UK

darc

Just so all the "rip off" moaners can see where the extra charges go, here is a direct comparison of the 3 main social welfare payments between UK & Ireland. Currency rate = €1.15 / £1

Unemployment benefit
UK = €69.75, Ireland = €204.00

Childrens Allowance
UK = €23 / week 1st child, €15 a week subsequent children
Ireland = €39 per week first & second children, €46 / week subsequent children.

Pensions
UK = €105 / week contributary pension
Ireland = €219 / week pension.

Don't forget you only get a reduction on your council tax & must pay water rates in full.


Anyone for moving to the UK for saving 10% - 20% on their shopping ???????

I used to live there (til 2003)- NEVER ever ever again!

ch750536

Naa, you're trying to reason with people who don't give a damn. Look at the fella moaning about how he has to pay VRT on his new car every year.

I'm alright Jack, got my cheap goods without supporting the local economy.
:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

ch750536 wrote: »

Naa, you're trying to reason with people who don't give a damn. Look at the fella moaning about how he has to pay VRT on his new car every year.

I'm alright Jack, got my cheap goods without supporting the local economy.
:rolleyes:

Does buying stuff from Maplin in the UK count as supporting your local economy?:P

Jaysoose

darc wrote: »

Just so all the "rip off" moaners can see where the extra charges go, here is a direct comparison of the 3 main social welfare payments between UK & Ireland. Currency rate = €1.15 / £1

Unemployment benefit
UK = €69.75, Ireland = €204.00

Childrens Allowance
UK = €23 / week 1st child, €15 a week subsequent children
Ireland = €39 per week first & second children, €46 / week subsequent children.

Pensions
UK = €105 / week contributary pension
Ireland = €219 / week pension.

Don't forget you only get a reduction on your council tax & must pay water rates in full.


Anyone for moving to the UK for saving 10% - 20% on their shopping ???????



I used to live there (til 2003)- NEVER ever ever again!

All this highlights is that the irish govement cant do maths as they dont have enough money to maintain this level of welfare payments. I personally know people on the dole in the north and the south, the difference being down here they are happy to "pass go and collect €200" every week.

ch750536

ejmaztec wrote: »

Does buying stuff from Maplin in the UK count as supporting your local economy?:P

Not talking about the occasional purchase here, €100 out of the country is no major issue.

The people getting vans to load up from the north has a big impact on the economy.

Latchy

Wages / social welfare payments / pensions were always better in Ireland than UK but cost of living was also higher in Ireland.However with this recession probably hitting UK harder than most EU countries ( uk statistics) , food prices and other esentials rising and current downturn in Irish Economy ,it remains to be seen were best to live / shop for bargins .Obiously people will continue to shop up north regardless of their circumstances .Patriotism doesnt come into it in most peoples lives were getting a bargain is concerned ,north or south including brits going over to france to stock up on ciggies / booze .

richiepoorman

darc wrote: »

Just so all the "rip off" moaners can see where the extra charges go, here is a direct comparison of the 3 main social welfare payments between UK & Ireland. Currency rate = €1.15 / £1

Unemployment benefit
UK = €69.75, Ireland = €204.00

Childrens Allowance
UK = €23 / week 1st child, €15 a week subsequent children
Ireland = €39 per week first & second children, €46 / week subsequent children.

Pensions
UK = €105 / week contributary pension
Ireland = €219 / week pension.

Don't forget you only get a reduction on your council tax & must pay water rates in full.


Anyone for moving to the UK for saving 10% - 20% on their shopping ???????

I used to live there (til 2003)- NEVER ever ever again!

Other than the social welfare payments/council tax we are been ripped off in nearly every other aspect in this country,
Examples include, anything to do with motoring, insurance costs, annual road tax, maintance/servicing, dont even start me on VRT, even petrol prices are closer to each other now than ever.
Everyone knows about weekly shopping prices, what about magazine's, lack of competion between utility companies, postage/delivery cost's, price's and quality of public transport, not sure but I think they pay less tax than us and have greater tax free allowances, cheaper broadband and telephone charge's, Sky TV.....etc,
I could go on and on but i think you get my point
I lived there for years as well , but came back in 2006.

craichoe

richiepoorman wrote: »

Other than the social welfare payments/council tax we are been ripped off in nearly every other aspect in this country,
Examples include, anything to do with motoring, insurance costs, annual road tax, maintance/servicing, dont even start me on VRT, even petrol prices are closer to each other now than ever.
Everyone knows about weekly shopping prices, what about magazine's, lack of competion between utility companies, postage/delivery cost's, price's and quality of public transport, not sure but I think they pay less tax than us and have greater tax free allowances, cheaper broadband and telephone charge's, Sky TV.....etc,
I could go on and on but i think you get my point
I lived there for years as well , but came back in 2006.

You are sorely mistaken,
Lets take your examples:

My insurance in Ireland TPF&T
520

Holland - Same car:
780

Road tax Ireland:
528 euros / year

Road tax Holland:
1120 euros / year

Congestion tax Ireland:
None

Congestion Tax Holland:
180/year (Also 70 of that is for Nordrhein Westfalen in Germany since I travel there)

Cost of a service on my car in Ireland (Indy mechanic):
120 euros

Cost of a service in Holland(Indy Mechanic):
160 euros

*rate of labour was the same for both mechanics 20/hour and I bought my own parts !*

VRT ... Its called BPM here, roughly around 30% on an Import (depending on Co2 emissions)

Petrol was 1.28/L this week, I got my Diesel for 94c/Litre , was 1.08 in Neuss (Near the border) this week

The two words you mentioned that I agree with as being inadequate is "public transport, thats about it"

The rest, well you were living in la la land for the last 10 years, its only going to get worse, things may get cheaper but thats only because your spending power will be reduced.

So give me a break, Ireland is not the rip off the Irish people think it is, it people moaning comparing it to a Neighbouring contries prices but conveniently leaving out all of their EU neighbours.

richiepoorman

craichoe wrote: »

You are sorely mistaken,
Lets take your examples:

My insurance in Ireland TPF&T
520

Holland - Same car:
780

Road tax Ireland:
528 euros / year

Road tax Holland:
1120 euros / year

Congestion tax Ireland:
None

Congestion Tax Holland:
180/year (Also 70 of that is for Nordrhein Westfalen in Germany since I travel there)

Cost of a service on my car in Ireland (Indy mechanic):
120 euros

Cost of a service in Holland(Indy Mechanic):
160 euros

*rate of labour was the same for both mechanics 20/hour and I bought my own parts !*

VRT ... Its called BPM here, roughly around 30% on an Import (depending on Co2 emissions)

Petrol was 1.28/L this week, I got my Diesel for 94c/Litre , was 1.08 in Neuss (Near the border) this week

The two words you mentioned that I agree with as being inadequate is "public transport, thats about it"

The rest, well you were living in la la land for the last 10 years, its only going to get worse, things may get cheaper but thats only because your spending power will be reduced.

So give me a break, Ireland is not the rip off the Irish people think it is, it people moaning comparing it to a Neighbouring contries prices but conveniently leaving out all of their EU neighbours.

I was comparing cost's between Ireland and the UK, not Holland, Ireland is a rip off compared to the UK. I have never lived in Hollland, if what your saying is true well then Holland is also a rip off ???:)

darc

richiepoorman wrote: »

I was comparing cost's between Ireland and the UK, not Holland, Ireland is a rip off compared to the UK. I have never lived in Hollland, if what your saying is true well then Holland is also a rip off ???:)

And if you were living in the uk with exactly the same job as you have in Ireland you would have take home pay approx. 30% less than what you get here plus then you have to pay council tax & water charges (average £2500 non tax deductable.) Also public transport is WAY higher priced in UK than Ireland.

Shop around in Ireland and you will find value.

craichoe

darc wrote: »

And if you were living in the uk with exactly the same job as you have in Ireland you would have take home pay approx. 30% less than what you get here plus then you have to pay council tax & water charges (average £2500 non tax deductable.) Also public transport is WAY higher priced in UK than Ireland.

Shop around in Ireland and you will find value.

Indeed its all relative, in comparison the UK looks like a ripoff compared to Germany, but the take home pay is quite low there, depending on where you live of course.

CamperMan

darc wrote: »

Just so all the "rip off" moaners can see where the extra charges go, here is a direct comparison of the 3 main social welfare payments between UK & Ireland. Currency rate = €1.15 / £1

Unemployment benefit
UK = €69.75, Ireland = €204.00

Childrens Allowance
UK = €23 / week 1st child, €15 a week subsequent children
Ireland = €39 per week first & second children, €46 / week subsequent children.

Pensions
UK = €105 / week contributary pension
Ireland = €219 / week pension.

Don't forget you only get a reduction on your council tax & must pay water rates in full.


Anyone for moving to the UK for saving 10% - 20% on their shopping ???????

I used to live there (til 2003)- NEVER ever ever again!

even working in the UK, you have no money at the end of the week to treat yourself.

anyway, we live here in the South and shop in the North, best of both worlds

mcwhirter

darc wrote: »

And if you were living in the uk with exactly the same job as you have in Ireland you would have take home pay approx. 30% less than what you get here plus then you have to pay council tax & water charges (average £2500 non tax deductable.) Also public transport is WAY higher priced in UK than Ireland.

Shop around in Ireland and you will find value.

What public transport? In Ireland that is....

mcwhirter

ch750536 wrote: »

Not talking about the occasional purchase here, €100 out of the country is no major issue.

The people getting vans to load up from the north has a big impact on the economy.

Maybe the government should charge us to cross the border into northern Ireland, that would stop us trying for cheaper goods in our vrt infested cars.

ejmaztec

I'd say that twenty years ago, the UK paid higher benefits than Ireland. It's only in recent years that amounts here have sky-rocketed.

In the not too distant future, I think the situation is going to go back the other way, as the Irish government will not be able to sustain anywhere near the present level.

ch750536

mcwhirter wrote: »

Maybe the government should charge us to cross the border into northern Ireland, that would stop us trying for cheaper goods in our vrt infested cars. propping up a foreign economy to the detriment of our own.

Corrected you there mate, hope you dont mind.:D

Tipsy Mac

CamperMan wrote: »

anyway, we live here in the South and shop in the North, best of both worlds

+1

Red Sleeping Beauty

darc wrote: »

Just so all the "rip off" moaners can see where the extra charges go, here is a direct comparison of the 3 main social welfare payments between UK & Ireland. Currency rate = €1.15 / £1

Unemployment benefit
UK = €69.75,
!

Are you sure about that ?

mcwhirter wrote: »

Maybe the government should charge us to cross the border into northern Ireland

There's people rollin' in their graves at that suggestion of yours there...

mcwhirter

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are you sure about that ?



There's people rollin' in their graves at that suggestion of yours there...

I have a dry sense of humour, it was a sarcastic comment:D

L.R. Weizel

You do realise that 70 euros wouldn't even cover the rent of most places here? And if you get rent allowance, would only just about cover food? That is pretty insane if it's true. I think you get other kinds of benefits in the UK though.

How much is disability in the UK?

Red Sleeping Beauty

They've different levels of disability as far as I know in the UK.

And indeed 70 Euros wouldn't cover a week's shopping, travel and anything else to facilitate searching for a job.

L.R. Weizel

As far as I can tell disability isn't much either. That's nuts. I was considering moving to the UK because it's more diverse socially, but I'm still on disability(currently on a National Learning Network course to do something about getting back to work, but I'm only going to be doing part time jobs for a while, even if the economy turns around in a year or so).

Still if you do have a half decent job, I can't see any reason to live in Ireland over the UK.

The Irish government needs to work on bringing down prices so they can bring down the dole. The UK needs to raise it's dole... but of course it won't be able to.

Red Sleeping Beauty

The Govt. won't try and bring down prices. Not a hope in hell. This Govt. is powerless and useless against BBIIIIIIG Business!

The UK's disability might be rubbish but they've a far better health system - with the NHS for instance you only pay about £7 for your prescription regardless of what's on it. The NHS has more holes than a block of swiss cheese and it's in a bad way and they do some nasty things - like address lottos were only say 2 people per area are allowed have a certain operation - but in comparisson with ours, it's miles ahead.

It's also worth noting that the minimum wage in the UK is pathetic, utterly pathetic. It's about £4.50 for <17 year olds, then there's a seperate min wage for 18-24 year olds and then for 25+

Or something like that

ch750536

L.R. Weizel wrote: »

You do realise that 70 euros wouldn't even cover the rent of most places here? And if you get rent allowance, would only just about cover food? That is pretty insane if it's true. I think you get other kinds of benefits in the UK though.

How much is disability in the UK?

£68 per week, most of your rent paid though if in sheltered accom.
Car allowance of £1100 per year I think.

ch750536

They are changing the system in the UK though, bills being passed soon I think. Rather than doctors saying you are disabled they have to state what you can do.

For example, my dad who cant walk can type.

Therefore he is not disabled, just limeted to certain types of work.

Not sure how this will work out in practice though,.

L.R. Weizel

£68 a week wouldn't even cover food and travel for me, possibly even in the UK. You don't get a free bus pass either. Does the UK government think people should be happy to simply exist?

For example, my dad who cant walk can type.

Therefore he is not disabled, just limeted to certain types of work.

That's barbaric and nobody that should be considered a human being could have suggested it. My disability is mental/social and I currently can't do ANY work. The whole routine and idea of the workplace is enough to give me a fit every couple of months(as it did last time).

I know they were considering getting people to "work" for their dole, when they get next to nothing to begin with. These kind of right wing extremists should be locked up and never let out.

I think my mind is made up, I'll move to Sweden. They have a "Welfare state" that actually works. Though that said by the time I do I'll probably be working anyway - I just prefer to live in a country that's not run by sociopaths.

ch750536

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/welfarereform/

Terrifying.

L.R. Weizel

There really is no need to force potentially unstable people to work in this day and age.

Notice how countries like Sweden which have welfare up the wazoo don't have any more of an economic problem than Ireland, because they're well-managed and people don't moan about their "hard earned cash" going to people who aren't working.

ch750536

Rates
Disability Living Allowance is in two parts - the care component and the mobility component. You may be able to get just one component or both.

Care component-Weekly rate
Highest rate-£67.00
Middle rate-£44.85
Lowest rate-£17.75
Mobility component-Weekly rate
Higher rate-£46.75
Lower rate-£17.75

and they want to reduce this?

Red Sleeping Beauty

It is scary how both the Irish and UK governments seem set on running down the welfare system. They can dress it up all they like but it's quite clear what they're trying to do.

It's a bit shocking... both countries welfare systems will resemble America before we know it

Social Welfare's definitely going to get hacked in Cowen's April Fools Day budget.

Xterminator

Alan Rouge wrote: »

It is scary how both the Irish and UK governments seem set on running down the welfare system. They can dress it up all they like but it's quite clear what they're trying to do.

It's a bit shocking... both countries welfare systems will resemble America before we know it

Social Welfare's definitely going to get hacked in Cowen's April Fools Day budget.

Of course it will. and it has to.

where do you think the money comes from? The tooth fairy?

Less workers paying tax, and double the number claiming the dole = cuts.
i'm not blaming the unemployed, nor excusing the fact that public sector wage bill have increased 50% since 2004, or the bankers or anyone.

BUT we have to live within our means, ie we cant pay the people who are unemployed more than we can afford to. Its a cold hard fact. It wont change no matter whos in government, if we cant afford it, we cant afford it.

irishbrain

Originally Posted by Alan Rouge
It is scary how both the Irish and UK governments seem set on running down the welfare system. They can dress it up all they like but it's quite clear what they're trying to do.

Social Welfare's definitely going to get hacked in Cowen's April Fools Day budget.




By how much do you all think the social welfare will get reduced by? Are we talking a few Euro p/w or dramatic reductions?

ch750536

It cant really go down in the UK to be fair, it is a joke already. I expect in Ireland there will be exclusions, single people living with parents will lose money I expect.

darc

I think there will be a 2% levy on ALL income whether its social welfare or employment and then higher levies for those over €60k, €100k and a super levy of 10% for those on 150k +

IF its done this way, I can't see much complaint especially as the 10% levy would hit ministers, judiciary & those people in financial instutions whose titles rhyme with the old Irish currency.

ejmaztec

There are definitely parts of the whole "welfare" system being milked and bled by some claimants. There are the ones who can barely live on what they get, and then there are these other people making a profession of taking the system for everything that they can get their greasy hands on. With carer's allowance, "dubious" disability claims, rent allowance, travel and God knows what allowance, some people are really taking the piss.

I would surmise that, if the "high-earners" were investigated, and the legal loopholes plugged, the system would probably not be forced into reducing what the average honest claimant gets.

The only problem now is finding people to carry out these investigations, as the huge increase in people signing on has the relevant departments up to their eye-balls dealing with the new influx.

Shelflife

One of the main problems with our welfare system is that we allowed so many to remain on the register during full employment, this was the time to weed out all those on disability that didnt deserve it and those "jobseekers" that were too fussy, currently a young girl who used to work for me gets over €22000 a year in payments while another girl who still works for me earns €20280 a year and does a 39 hr week.

the difference is one has 2 kids whereas the other has none , one works a full week while the other does nothing,

i get to see lots of people drawing dole and disability and its a laugh to see people collecting money that they are clearly not entitled to.

its time to bite the bullet and nail the spongers for once and for all, it shouldnt be as easy to get these handouts , but those that do get it should get a fair amount.

im not allowed to report these people due to confidentiality clauses in my contract, otherwise i would.

Lobelia Overhill

ejmaztec wrote: »

With carer's allowance, ... some people are really taking the piss.

Please explain how I am taking the piss on Carer's Allowance (single rate) while looking after two elderly/disabled parents?



I was under the delusion that the government was taking the piss out of me, paying me <€1.40 per hour for a 168 hour week, with no holiday or sick leave. Home Helps get a minimum of €15 an hour and it costs a minimum of €100 a day to keep someone in a Home.

In order to get Carer's you have to get the caree to sign a form that a doctor also has to sign, stating that this person is in need of constant care and attention, with a list of problems the person has and how severe the problem is - it's not (AFAIK) reviewed at any point in time should the caree become more debilitated (such as someone becoming senile, or developing double incontinence due to their age among many other things).

If the caree won't sign tough ****. You get nothing.

If the doctor fills out the medical report stating that the person has full use of their limbs and is mentally competent (when spending more than five minutes in their company will tell you otherwise) tough ****. If you're married to someone who's earning over X, tough ****. You get nothing.

Your friends abandon you, people patronise the **** out of you, your family sit back and leave you to get on with it...

Oh yeah I'm really taking the piss here aren't I?

:mad:

ejmaztec

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

Please explain how I am taking the piss on Carer's Allowance (single rate) while looking after two elderly/disabled parents?



I was under the delusion that the government was taking the piss out of me, paying me <€1.40 per hour for a 168 hour week, with no holiday or sick leave. Home Helps get a minimum of €15 an hour and it costs a minimum of €100 a day to keep someone in a Home.

In order to get Carer's you have to get the caree to sign a form that a doctor also has to sign, stating that this person is in need of constant care and attention, with a list of problems the person has and how severe the problem is - it's not (AFAIK) reviewed at any point in time should the caree become more debilitated (such as someone becoming senile, or developing double incontinence due to their age among many other things).

If the caree won't sign tough ****. You get nothing.

If the doctor fills out the medical report stating that the person has full use of their limbs and is mentally competent (when spending more than five minutes in their company will tell you otherwise) tough ****. If you're married to someone who's earning over X, tough ****. You get nothing.

Your friends abandon you, people patronise the **** out of you, your family sit back and leave you to get on with it...

Oh yeah I'm really taking the piss here aren't I?

:mad:

If you examine my post, you will see that I split people into two categories. You obviously don't fall into the category of people milking the system.

It seems to me that honest people don't do very well out of the system, which is what I discovered on my arrival here 20 years ago - to my detriment. Apparently, if you tell them a pack of lies, or nothing at all, you can live comfortably at the tax-payers' expense until you reach the grave.:(

doolox

I'd say the girl having two kids has a full time job already, minding the kids.
Unless we get into legislating for limiting child numbers and fertility like the Chinese do I don't see any way of avoiding paying her in order to keep the kids in a decent standard of living.

It wasn't their fault being born.

By the time she had paid a childminder to look after the two kids she wouldn't have much change left out of €20,280 pa.

People will look at the marginal benefit of choosing to do work. If there isn't a big enough difference they won't do the work.

Short of educating people not to have children until the have the money to afford them, I can't see what the government can legally do to stop people having children when they are in modestly paid employment and cannot afford the childminding in order for them to pursue a full-time job.

ch750536

It's a funny old world and sometimes things work much more backward than you would think.

Like the fact that after '911' more people died from choosing to drive rather than fly than did in the towers. <possibly a complete lie, heard one of Hook's guests stating this the other night>

Anyway, people on excessive benefits guarantee a level of spending in the country as this is the worst case.

These people do not use up a job at the same time. They generate kids for the future much more easily.

I actually think in a depression it is healthy to waste lots of money on people through the welfare system. My issue is that when you need them to work (in a boom) thats when the welfare should be cut to entice them back.

Wierd eh.

Shelflife

doolox wrote: »

I'd say the girl having two kids has a full time job already, minding the kids.
Unless we get into legislating for limiting child numbers and fertility like the Chinese do I don't see any way of avoiding paying her in order to keep the kids in a decent standard of living.


Yes but if the girl working had two kids and was married then she wouldnt get anything from the state, yet because the other girl is unmarried she gets €20k +. how can that be fair??

alex2710

As one of the many people who have recently been made unemployed, I have to say that I am struggling to make ends meet on the social welfare that I am receiving for my daughter and I. Like others, I am extremely concerned about providing for my daughter and myself. I have always paid my taxes and did not waste money. There are lots of people like me who are hardworking who are distraught by their current circumstances. I do not like receiving money for nothing and definitely do not like being defined by my unemployment status. Work for me is more than about earning money to pay the bills, it is about self respect, doing a worthwhile job and about my identity. I am a single parent and my commitment at work has never been questioned. My problem is now that a full time job will now involve considerable more than the standard 40/45 hour week and based on my calculations it is unlikely that I will able to afford the childcare in light of current salary levels in my field.

I think that the current recession is going to force women like me out of the workforce.

ch750536

Alex, feel for you mate, chin up.

A few suggestions.

1. If you rent a property, go get the rent reduced. The markets advertised rates is not what people are paying. If your LL wont come down, move house to somewhere that is cheaper.
2. Make all your own food, it will halve your food bill. If you don't know how then learn, its not hard at all.
3. Buy smart. Most markets are cheaper at the end of the day. Haggle for stuff. Always works.
4. Charity shops for clothes are really good. You will be amazed what you can pick up in them, books & stuff too.
5. Keep all your receipts and take stuff back that is not good enough or not suitable. I bought 10l of milk the other day and am returning it on the weekend as it is off.
6. Know what you can claim form the system.
7. Earn extra cash by minding other peoples kids.

It's not the end of the world losing your job you know. Enjoy some family time. Make a decision early on whether you can sit this one out or if you will be continuing to look for a job.

If I lost my job right now I would not bother looking. Wood plat veggies & stuff, do some work on the side to get cash in my pocket and with for things to get better.

You would be amazed on how little you need to get by.

Best of luck.

K-9

L.R. Weizel wrote: »

You do realise that 70 euros wouldn't even cover the rent of most places here? And if you get rent allowance, would only just about cover food? That is pretty insane if it's true. I think you get other kinds of benefits in the UK though.

How much is disability in the UK?

As you get other benefits here. Rent allowance is above the €200 per week, he's being consistent and fair with the comparison.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

The Govt. won't try and bring down prices. Not a hope in hell. This Govt. is powerless and useless against BBIIIIIIG Business!

The UK's disability might be rubbish but they've a far better health system - with the NHS for instance you only pay about £7 for your prescription regardless of what's on it. The NHS has more holes than a block of swiss cheese and it's in a bad way and they do some nasty things - like address lottos were only say 2 people per area are allowed have a certain operation - but in comparisson with ours, it's miles ahead.

It's also worth noting that the minimum wage in the UK is pathetic, utterly pathetic. It's about £4.50 for <17 year olds, then there's a seperate min wage for 18-24 year olds and then for 25+

Or something like that

Indeed, you get a medical card here on the dole, free doctor visits and free prescriptions.

On the minimum wage, the same differences on age apply here. No tax or PRSI on it here, until the recent 2% levy. Interestingly, the UK is normal by international standards, we are the ones that are out of place!

L.R. Weizel wrote: »

There really is no need to force potentially unstable people to work in this day and age.

Notice how countries like Sweden which have welfare up the wazoo don't have any more of an economic problem than Ireland, because they're well-managed and people don't moan about their "hard earned cash" going to people who aren't working.

YEP, you should look at the tax and National Insurance rates that pay for their system.

Rancidmaniac13

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is just a myth. Ireland's welfare payments are very low as a percentage of the GDP compared to other welfare states. Even less than the USA!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

Nation ↓ Welfare expenditure
(% of GDP)
omitting education ↓ Welfare expenditure
(% of GDP)
including education[23] ↓ GDP per capita (PPP US$) ↓
Denmark 29.2 37.9 $29,000
United Kingdom 21.8 25.9 $24,160
United States 14.8 19.4 $34,320
Ireland 13.8 18.5 $32,410

Danno

2001 figures there lad when the dole was around €100 pr week...

K-9

Danno wrote: »

2001 figures there lad when the dole was around €100 pr week...

Would be interesting to see up to date figures considering we have upped our SW payments substantially in the interim.

shoegirl

The reason UK welfare rates are so pitiful is that they were cut under the new deal in 1997 when the Labour government got in, and basically increases were held at the lowest possible rate of inflation, which was lower than anything Ireland had at that time.

It was ostensibly designed to "starve" people into jobs and punish those who were perceived as being work-shy. The rates on offer are pitifully below what the reasonable minimum rate to live with dignity are, and do not include a "housing element" which the Irish rates do.

I have been arguing for years that welfare raises were quite simply too high. If you look back around 1999/2000, the Irish and British rates were fairly close. What happened in Irish was that so-called social partners demanded high rates of increase well over and above both the then rates of inflation. In reality, from about 2002 to 2007, welfare rose at more than twice the rate that the minimum wage was increasing at. This doesn't even account for changes in supplementary payments which also increased. I expect this is why the actual numbers of claimants never fell beneath a certain level - it really wasn't attractive for them to seek work while payments were escalating rapidly.

Of course UK don't have powerful lobby groups like CORI, who are happy for you to pay for welfare, but also want you to subsidise 90% of their abuse claims from years of systematic rape and torture of children in "care" homes.

The UK rates will plunge somebody into critical poverty, and I have personal experience of that. Irish rates do provide a better level of protection, but that will depend on what you originally earned. If you were on 800 a week and came out with 600 after tax, things will be tough, but on the other hand, if you were only earning 300-400, you could actually end up better off if you are entitled to any subsidary payments.

shoegirl

doolox wrote: »

Short of educating people not to have children until the have the money to afford them, I can't see what the government can legally do to stop people having children when they are in modestly paid employment and cannot afford the childminding in order for them to pursue a full-time job.

Ah realistically there is. We could make lone parent allowance conditional on contraceptive implants in cases where the parent is judged to be vulnerable.

My personal favourite though, is front-loading welfare, so people get slightly higher rates to start off and then it is gradually reduced to a lower level, which will discourage long term dependency. Say give people 350 a week for 3 months, then 300 for the next 3 and so on. It would at least give people who might only be out of work for 2 or 3 months a better cushion while pushing people to try to get work before their payments drop.

But I do feel that also rates should be reduced pro-rata where earners were lower to start off. For example, somebody losing 400 euro a week would be on a high incentive to get a job. Somebody losing 50 ...or possibly ending up better off.... is not - so why not pay them less? I know it sounds cruel, but I do know of cases where lone parents have gone out to work for less than they got in welfare. So why not limit total cash values of welfare so that it does not exceed previous earnings in the first place? If you look at the people who stay on the dole or other forms of welfare in the long term, its those who may never have much earning capacity, people who are likely to only get the minimum wage or a little more.

Childcare definitely needs revisiting for all parents, its a serious issue that was sorely neglected in the tiger years. Housing is another issue too. Its ridiculous to subsidise rents so that the market rate climbs. Especially if the housing is chronically substandard.

eth0_

Unemployment benefit in Ireland is an absolute joke. You could live quite comfortably on it if you're a single person with no mortgage and many MANY people choose to do so rather than get a job.

I know several people who strategically quit their jobs, went on the dole for 6 months and then applied to go back to uni, because the social welfare will continue to pay their rent AND give them €200 a week for nothing! The Irish benefits system positively encourages spongers!

In the UK they'll pay your rent and council tax, and you get £61 a week which is enough to pay for food and bills - why should you expect anything more?

Resi12

Threads like this infuriate me!
Why must everything in Ireland money-wise be compared to the UK?!

You cannot just simply put up the UK amount for SW and then compare them to Irelands and say it is a rip off..
Since when did the UK set the standard of living for us?!
And you act like Ireland has the biggest amount of SW in Europe or something, It is actually ranked low enough. Somewhere between 10-20 I think. With France, Denmark and Spain outranking us by almost €400 extra a week.

The living cost is much higher in Ireland especially with the Euro so how the hell can you compare two different countries with different currencies therefore different cost of life and say it is unfair we get more?!