Have our Fat Cats done more damage than the IRA ?

Fulton Crown

It's no coincidence that the country suffered a long period of recession in the eighty's coinciding with the the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

The atrocities committed by the IRA and their Loyalist counterparts surely contributed to the economic stagnation and mass emigration of that period.

Now we have the fat cat bankers,golden circle business people and a staggering level of incompetency at senior levels all across the public and private sectors.

The senior lads and lassies at FAS had their snouts firmly in the trough, living the high life at the expense of John Q Taxpayer - report comes out today and it appears nothing can be done ..no heads to roll..except for the clown who crashed an burned on the Pat Kenny show.

These guys are led out in handcuffs in the US - but here they are the untouchables citing "Legal Reasons" for refusing to account for their mis deeds.

These gimps have put THOUSANDS of jobs and livelyhoods at risk by their behaviour and deserve no sypmathy ..but a nice spell in the chokey to cool their heels.

What is wrong with our leglislators..that no leglislation exists to teach these bucks manners ??

An you have a gimp on the radio today saying the bankers are "heros" and created the Celtic Tiger era.

But i guess we are all to blame ...we voted for the tossers in Government....theres more to come my friends ...be afraid...be very afraid....

Terry

I'll say this about the IRA, they may have been brutal murderous bastards, but at least they kept the criminal gangs under control.
Now the drug lords are the ones with the bombs and guns.
A lot more dangerous in their hands.

biko

When the criminals go to the same schools and gentlemen clubs as the judges it kinda makes things a bit different...

Secret handshake ftw

Phototoxin

well its terrorism of a different kind really. Fear of been blown up vs fear of no home.

The likelihood of the latter is more of a reality now that the likelihood of the former ever was.


But heeeeyyy, its a WHITE COLLAR crime, its not a REAL crime.

bleg

Fulton Crown wrote: »

It's no coincidence that the country suffered a long period of recession in the eighty's coinciding with the the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

i'd say it is coincidence

RaverRo808

We are lost without the IRA,we need them more then ever,put it up to some of the death dealing scum out who think they have nobody to answer to

Berty

The IRA went to prison, the fat cats will not.

Eoin

I'd say people will recover easier from losing their job than being blown up while shopping.

thelordofcheese

I don't think that some rotund anthropomorphic felines are capable of causing the same kind of damage as a group of murdering psychopaths.
Unless they were Godzilla sized, or something like that.

Morrisseeee

I smell a revolution, if we were French, we'd start a revolution :eek:
I say we start by NOT paying (defaulting) on our mortgages/loans, whats another couple of billion/zillion onto OUR tax bill !

Tom65

eoin wrote: »

I'd say people will recover easier from losing their job than being blown up while shopping.

Exactly.


I don't know anyone blown up by the "fat cats".

Morrisseeee

I don't know anyone blown up by the "fat cats".

Unfortunatley & Very Sadly worse Tom65.....suicide !!

Degsy

eoin wrote: »

I'd say people will recover easier from losing their job than being blown up while shopping.

No,they'll see to it that you cant afford to go shopping.

Eoin

Degsy wrote: »

No,they'll see to it that you cant afford to go shopping.

And still not get blown up? Still works for me.

Caoimhín

Fulton Crown wrote: »

It's no coincidence that the country suffered a long period of recession in the eighty's coinciding with the the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

The atrocities committed by the IRA and their Loyalist counterparts surely contributed to the economic stagnation and mass emigration of that period.

Maybe it was the economic stagnation that contributed to the escalation of the "Troubles"? Lots of young men out of work and idle..

K-9

Caoimhín wrote: »

Maybe it was the economic stagnation that contributed to the escalation of the "Troubles"? Lots of young men out of work and idle..

YEP, They become Drug dealers now instead of joining the IRA.

Agamemnon

Fulton Crown wrote: »

It's no coincidence that the country suffered a long period of recession in the eighty's coinciding with the the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

The atrocities committed by the IRA and their Loyalist counterparts surely contributed to the economic stagnation and mass emigration of that period.

It's largely a coincidence - the British had to foot the bill for the bulk of economic cost of the Troubles, not us. While there were terrorist attacks in the Republic, they weren't so many that the country was in ruins. While there was increased security on the border, it was nothing like the vast military operation the British were running in the north. People left the Republic because there were no jobs, they were not seeking asylum from the UVF.

AnonoBoy

The comparison is frankly ridiculous.

Poccington

Terry wrote: »

I'll say this about the IRA, they may have been brutal murderous bastards, but at least they kept the criminal gangs under control.
Now the drug lords are the ones with the bombs and guns.
A lot more dangerous in their hands.

But who is it that's supplying the bombs and guns?

Yep, it's our Republican friends.

Terry

Some of them, yes.

The CIRA issued a warning to those selling the bombs.
They know that they are being sold by two families from two Limerick estates.
It's also a known fact that many former members moved to Limerick towards the end of the troubles, so it would be no surprise if those selling the bombs were former members.

Fulton Crown

Agamemnon wrote: »

It's largely a coincidence - the British had to foot the bill for the bulk of economic cost of the Troubles, not us. While there were terrorist attacks in the Republic, they weren't so many that the country was in ruins. While there was increased security on the border, it was nothing like the vast military operation the British were running in the north. People left the Republic because there were no jobs, they were not seeking asylum from the UVF.

I'm not claiming that the Troubles were the cause of the recession in the eighties just that obviously they didn't help !

Strangely enough the huge military and police presence in the North actually bolstered the local economy at a time when there was little inward investment - a lot of building ..re building if you get my drift.

Of the IRA heads that were convicted some were tried by special courts and received long sentences..deservedly.

The fat cat bankers ..different rule for them....no trial ... no conviction ...no long sentences....no nothing...still in their big mansions and driving shiny big cars.....

Why

blackbox

eoin wrote: »

I'd say people will recover easier from losing their job than being blown up while shopping.

+1

Red Hand

Terry wrote: »

I'll say this about the IRA, they may have been brutal murderous bastards, but at least they kept the criminal gangs under control.
Now the drug lords are the ones with the bombs and guns.
A lot more dangerous in their hands.

No. Direct Action Against Drugs/Concerned Parents against drugs (IRA) expelled many criminals from some areas in Dublin....only for these "concerned people" to fill the market niche.

dotsman

Can you please name these "fat cat bankers" and tell us exactly what crimes they have committed?

Can you then please tell us how these "crimes" have caused this recession?

Can you then please tell us what punishments they should receive?

Can you then, finally, explain why you refer to them as "fat cats". To date, the only time I hear/read that phrase it is by some tabloid journalist who doesn't have the first clue about what they talking about and just trying to create a mythical evil monster that everyone can blame their problems on.

P.S. Comparing anyone not involved in the butchering of innocent civilians to he IRA? The IRA? You got to be kidding me.

Red Hand

dotsman wrote: »

Can you please name these "fat cat bankers" and tell us exactly what crimes they have committed?

Can you then please tell us how these "crimes" have caused this recession?

Can you then please tell us what punishments they should receive?

Can you then, finally, explain why you refer to them as "fat cats". To date, the only time I hear/read that phrase it is by some tabloid journalist who doesn't have the first clue about what they talking about and just trying to create a mythical evil monster that everyone can blame their problems on.

P.S. Comparing anyone not involved in the butchering of innocent civilians to he IRA? The IRA? You got to be kidding me.

Hey, it's easier to blame a few "fat cats" rather than look at the entire shaky house of cards, right from the bottom up to the top.

biko

I'm too tired to write so here's a video explaining it
http://vimeo.com/3261363

Lynskey

Well, look at it this way: They both blew the banks, but the IRA did it a little more literally :pac:

SoWatchaWant

Cop on, the bankers didn't kill anyone.

kowloon

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Cop on, the bankers didn't kill anyone.

Yet... I've seen the way they look at me, with their pointy ears and cheeky grins. Be on the lookout for goblins, they lurk within the deepest recesses of our economy. Waiting.

Fulton Crown

dotsman wrote: »

Can you please name these "fat cat bankers" and tell us exactly what crimes they have committed?

Can you then please tell us how these "crimes" have caused this recession?

Can you then please tell us what punishments they should receive?

Can you then, finally, explain why you refer to them as "fat cats". To date, the only time I hear/read that phrase it is by some tabloid journalist who doesn't have the first clue about what they talking about and just trying to create a mythical evil monster that everyone can blame their problems on.

P.S. Comparing anyone not involved in the butchering of innocent civilians to he IRA? The IRA? You got to be kidding me.

Im not going to name specific names but just to help you along.....

The crowd at Anglo who drove their bank into a wall,were alledgedly involved in share price support, paid themselves obscene amounts of money,put the lively hoods of their staff and families at risk and undermined international trust in the entire Irish banking system.

Ditto the guys at IL&P who bed and breakfasted huge amounts of money with Anglo in questionable circumstances.

Ditto the Fas crowd who failed spectacularly to rein in the excesses of senior management.

Ditto the Fin Regulator who failed to regulate and retired with a sh1t load of money and a pension about 5 times the avg industrial wage.

Ditto the guys at AIB and BOI who presided over a catrostropic drop in their companies value.

Ditto the guys in Government for the past 10 years who failed to bring in leglislation to proevent this happening..leglislation which is in place in most "developed" countries.

Getting my drift..... ?

They may not have committed any "Crimes" but some of their actions would be crimes in most countries.

I did not actually say they had committed crimes.

Punishment ? Answering for their actions before the Public Accounts committee would be a start...little spell in the chokey if wrong doing proved...sequestering of their homes and possessions to repay debt as necessary.

Term fat cats is in use well outside the tabloids.

I was not comparing their actions per se to those of the IRA ie I was not trying to say Corporate fraud is better or worse that butchering innocent civilians but to make the point that these fat cats in their quiet way have done more damage to the Irish economy than the highly publicised and sickening IRA campaigns of the 70s and 80s.

Generations will be in hock for the actions of these reckless and greedy bastards.

sneakerfreak

Poccington wrote: »

But who is it that's supplying the bombs and guns?

Yep, it's our Republican friends.

actually most of the time the guns come in with drug shipments from the continent

Terry wrote: »

Some of them, yes.

The CIRA issued a warning to those selling the bombs.
They know that they are being sold by two families from two Limerick estates.
It's also a known fact that many former members moved to Limerick towards the end of the troubles, so it would be no surprise if those selling the bombs were former members.

limericks guns and bombs come from ex provos and also from the cira themselves,they also show lads in dublin how to make pipebombs

Nodin

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, They become Drug dealers now instead of joining the IRA.

People also forget the interest in engineering, chemistry, basement expansion and foreign travel that the provisional movement stimulated.

Nodin

sneakerfreak wrote: »

limericks guns and bombs come from ex provos and also from the cira themselves,they also show lads in dublin how to make pipebombs

The pipebombs manafacturing came from a released "INLA" man, to be precise, not the RA.

994

eoin wrote: »

I'd say people will recover easier from losing their job than being blown up while shopping.

yes, but only a few hundred were blown up, compared to hundreds of thousands of job losses, people dying in underfunded hospitals, etc.

Eoin

994 wrote: »

yes, but only a few hundred were blown up, compared to hundreds of thousands of job losses, people dying in underfunded hospitals, etc.

I am not saying that there haven't been huge trespasses by executives, but to compare them with the actions of terrorist scum is ridiculous to me.

tritium

994 wrote: »

yes, but only a few hundred were blown up, compared to hundreds of thousands of job losses, people dying in underfunded hospitals, etc.

Hmm and the underfunding of hospitals had nothing to do with us

A) voting in a government on the basis of an unsustainably low tax rate
Accepting public sector pay increases without justification ala benchmarking

And the job losses - that wouldn't have anything to do with

C) Ordinary folks milking the property boom to the extent the country relied on construction and we were all "investors"
D) People looking for unsustainable and unjustified wage increases.

All well and good to scapegoat the banks, and I won't pretend for a minute that the goings on at Anglo and friends were acceptable, but to be honest they're just a public face of the sleeven attitude that is endemic to this country.

I remember growing up in the eighties when there was a similar scapegoating mentality. Yes there were the CJH's of this world pulling fast ones on the taxpayer back then, but equally everyone knew someone who was drawing the dole while earning a tax free income on the side. In case people think these are small fry and not in the same bracket, you're wrong. It was just a matter of opportunity, with better connected people having better opportunity.

The current situation is no different. We piss and moan that the bankers have done this terrible wrong to the country while refusing to acknowledge any responsibility we might have for the state we're in. People talk about the banks lending out of control on property but no banker ever held a gun to someones head to accept a mortgage, and to be honest if they hadn't lent that money they would have been subject to the same vitriol for not supporting the boom - talking ourselves into recession and all that. Likewise we have ISME telling us that many viable small business can't borrow money any more: Hate to disappoint them but a hell of a lot of small Irish businesses are not and never were viable, they just happened to set up at a time when making money was easy

Would someone care to admit that the choices we the people made just might have contributed to the mess. Maybe if we'd been happy with a slightly higher tax rate, less throwing away of money on vanity projects and exccessive wage increases, and a more prudent economic management of the nations finances things might not be so bad now.

Eoin

tritium wrote: »

but to be honest they're just a public face of the sleeven attitude that is endemic to this country..

We're not the only country that's suffering either.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

How can you compare the two.

You are comparing a military movement to corruption. You cannot possibly compare them. Fat cats destroyed our economy, IRA fought for our freedom. Now if you mean the provos, it's a differant matter... Still not comparable though.

What economical damage has the IRA caused. Not enough to ruin a whole country.

What military movements have the fat cats made? None...

dotsman

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Im not going to name specific names but just to help you along.....

The crowd at Anglo who drove their bank into a wall,were alledgedly involved in share price support, paid themselves obscene amounts of money,put the lively hoods of their staff and families at risk and undermined international trust in the entire Irish banking system.

Yup, agree with you there. A handful of a$$holes tried to make an easy buck, putting the greater economy at risk in the process.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ditto the guys at IL&P who bed and breakfasted huge amounts of money with Anglo in questionable circumstances.

I'm still undecided on this one. It certainly was wrong for them to do so and it was underhanded (at best). However, I still don't see what they had to gain from this individually and they're intentions may not have been so malicious (i.e. they were doing it to prop up Anglo, for if Anglo was to fail it would have devastating consequences for the economy as a whole)

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ditto the Fas crowd who failed spectacularly to rein in the excesses of senior management.

Yes I agree, again a handful of people have gotten away with wasting the taxpayers money for years.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ditto the Fin Regulator who failed to regulate and retired with a sh1t load of money and a pension about 5 times the avg industrial wage.

Yes, the financial regulator did **** up. To be honest, Neary did a lot of good regarding Consumer Protection etc, but ultimately failed to take control of the credit markets. For that, he should fall on his sword (and not receive his massive pension). However, as a civil servant, he gets his orders from the government, who in turn get their orders from the people (see below).

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ditto the guys at AIB and BOI who presided over a catrostropic drop in their companies value.

I have to disagree here. In hindsight, yes we would love to be able to go back and make a few changes over the past 3 years. But at the time, for the most part, whatever decisions they made, they were good decisions based on the information available at the time. The catastrophic drop in the value of their companies is the same as all over the world and caused, on the main part, by factors outside their control.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Ditto the guys in Government for the past 10 years who failed to bring in leglislation to proevent this happening..leglislation which is in place in most "developed" countries.

Your're forgetting that our government consists of politicians (as most governments are). Politicians, by default, focus on the popular topics and choices. Had the people being asking/demanding tighter regulation, the politicians would have brought it in. However, it was never mentioned in any election campaign or political article/television show. At the time, most people were concerned about their pay increases, tax reductions, welfare increases etc.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Getting my drift..... ?

I think I am, but have to disagree with you and point out to you that you are blaming an entire section of society/industry for the actions of the few. I also believe you are wrong to think that the actions mentioned above are the main cause of the current recession. (sorry:()

Fulton Crown wrote: »

They may not have committed any "Crimes" but some of their actions would be crimes in most countries.

In some countries, and in others they would be perfectly acceptable. We are a democracy. We the people decide what should be crimes and what shouldn't. However, we, the people, had our eye off the ball for a long time focusing on our ever increasing wages and thinking how great we were.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

I did not actually say they had committed crimes.

No but you are comparing them to a criminal (and terrorist) organisation, thus I felt you were insinuating so.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Punishment ? Answering for their actions before the Public Accounts committee would be a start...little spell in the chokey if wrong doing proved...sequestering of their homes and possessions to repay debt as necessary.

Absolutely agree. However, as good and all that that will make us feel, it doesn't fix this economy. So while all the opposition parties and the media are focusing entirely on this story, they're wasting time on the big picture - getting this country back on track. We can go after these fcukers in a year or two. The big priority and sole focus of everybody concerned right now is getting behind this government and kick-starting the economy. Because, let's face it, the current shower in office need all the help they can get:D

If an arsonist sets fire to a house do you form a mob to go after him or do you get everybody to help put the fire out first. Right now everybody seems to be concerned with going after the arsonist, while the whole village burns down around them.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Term fat cats is in use well outside the tabloids.

I typically use this term (and other factors) to determine if the journalist is a sensationalist or not. Therefore, I would say that using this term makes a journalist a tabloid journalist. It is an adjective used to contrive an image of a mythical greedy monster and is used to unjustly blanket-label a whole section of society/industry. Generally any article containing this term fails miserably to deal with the topic in a fair and balanced way and focuses more on BS that sells than concentrating on what the real story is.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

I was not comparing their actions per se to those of the IRA ie I was not trying to say Corporate fraud is better or worse that butchering innocent civilians but to make the point that these fat cats in their quiet way have done more damage to the Irish economy than the highly publicised and sickening IRA campaigns of the 70s and 80s.

But the actions you have mentioned above are only a small part of the economic mess we are in. Due to horrific decisions surrounding pay and social welfare over the past decade, we have put ourselves in a position where we are grossly overpaid, have a large portion of life-long welfare scroungers and a ridiculous sense of grandiose in ourselves. We have wasted a huge opportunity to better our society, but instead allowed: the scum of society grow larger and bolder; our health service to become a maze of bureaucracy and inefficiency; our public transport system to continue to be 20 years behind what it should be; our once excellent education system to falter; and our minuscule public facilities (parks/sports grounds/swimming pools etc) to further disappear from our lives.

I could go on, but I hope you see my point that the actions of a few bankers/politicians/civil servants etc in regard to our financial system is only scraping the surface of the current problem.

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with all citizens of legal voting age over the past 15 years, who continued to support the policies of those elected. The fact is, most of the problems we are faced with now were caused by actions done in the past, be it a year ago or a decade ago. People ignored it, because as long as they felt they were getting richer, they were happy. Everyone was looking to their present situation as opposed to their future and were always just looking out for "what's in it for them" as opposed to what is good for the country as a whole and the long term viability of it's people.

Let's not ignore the wrong-doers, and certainly punish those who acted malicioulsy/illegally. But I really wish people would focus on the future (to me, even the present takes a back seat to the futurte as there is very little we can do to bring immediate relief - and the present only lasts a moment anyway:))

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Generations will be in hock for the actions of these reckless and greedy bastards.

Not if we fix it.

Eoin

Guillermo Worried Supertanker wrote: »

Fat cats destroyed our economy, IRA fought for our freedom. Now if you mean the provos, it's a differant matter... Still not comparable though.

I think it's obvious we are talking about the terrorist group. And if you still think they are no worse than some group of executives, I think you have a very skewed view of things.

ejmaztec

eoin wrote: »

I think it's obvious we are talking about the terrorist group. And if you still think they are no worse than some group of executives, I think you have a very skewed view of things.

Lots of people didn't want to visit the island of Ireland during the troubles, because they imagined that they were going to be blown up. Now they don't want to come in case they get robbed by some guy in a suit.

dotsman

ejmaztec wrote: »

Lots of people didn't want to visit the island of Ireland during the troubles, because they imagined that they were going to be blown up. Now they don't want to come in case they get robbed by some guy in a suit.

But they haven't robbed anyone

ejmaztec

dotsman wrote: »

But they haven't robbed anyone

Who's they?

dotsman

ejmaztec wrote: »

Who's they?

The "guys in the suits"

ejmaztec

dotsman wrote: »

The "guys in the suits"

I refer to them as robbers - what do you call them?

ART6

The directors of a company have legal responsibility for the interests of their shareholders and corporate governance responsibility to the legal system. If they are negligent or incompetent they can be held personally liable. The boards of the main banks have brought the economy to its knees by rash lending and by buying debt that was questionable at very least. A director who presides over a policy that reduces the share value of his company by anything up to 90% is by definition incompetent. When he added to that trading schemes that sought to hide the true value of the company then he is fraudulent.

The IRA never achieved the destruction of the Irish economy, and as far as I am aware never tried to. Their various post 1923 splinter groups killed people for no obvious reason or benefit to their cause, and they got shot or locked up. Their impact on the Republic was relatively small.

So. We lock up or shoot those who bomb and kill what is in reality a tiny percentage of the population, but we don't imprison those who destroy the whole nation's economy. We don't even want to name them. I am most certainly not an apologist for the IRA or any of its offshoots, but I would argue that other countries have faced that sort of terrorism-- Bader Meinhoff in Germany for example. They are all an irritation that can be contained. What has been caused by the banking executives, it is increasingly apparent, cannot.

dotsman

ejmaztec wrote: »

I refer to them as robbers - what do you call them?

I don't call them anything - I don't believe in labelling people:D

But again, I say that they didn't rob anyone so am confused by your reference to them as robbers.

dotsman

ART6 wrote: »

The boards of the main banks have brought the economy to its knees by rash lending and by buying debt that was questionable at very least.

.

I'm not quiet sure what banks you are referring to when you say "buying debt that was questionable at very least".

With regards to the "rash lending". Yes there were some poor decisions, some banks more than others (Anglo anyone?). But on the whole, given the info that was available at the time (especially given that no magic crystal ball existed) many banks made good decisions.

Ultimately, the decision to control the flow of credit comes from the government via the Central Bank and Financial Regulator (the government in turn being controlled by the people via the Opposition parties, media and ultimately by vote). No individual bank can do this alone, nor would it survive if it refused to compete with it's competitors. Take any bank in Ireland. When should they have withdrawn from the lending/mortgage market? 2006? 2004? 1996?

What happened consistently over the past decade+? If anyone was refused a loan/mortgage by their bank, they merely went off to one of the competitors (glad to increase their market share). If any one bank is overwhelmingly stricter than the others, the result is fairly simple - it's customers flee, they make a loss, shareholders either replace the board with one that will compete, or watch the bank collapse.

Only a regulatory body could have imposed lending restrictions (max percentages of loan books per category, interest rate taxes/reliefs for different types of lending etc) to bring about a calming to the market. Instead the government (and people) were delighted with the extra cash and the media were cheering on competition in the market encouraging the "rash" lending.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

eoin wrote: »

I think it's obvious we are talking about the terrorist group. And if you still think they are no worse than some group of executives, I think you have a very skewed view of things.

Yea it's obvious, but people should learn to distinguish between the two. There is a huge differance.

How can you compare two bodies that have no relation? Terrorists and fat cats... Comparing death with theft. It's just not that comparable really.

*EDIT*

I said theft, I should have said greed and careless lending. Should have mentioned the developers too, their lack of care, the politicians greed and lust for power.

holly1

Mr Sean FitzPatrick is dining in sunny spain as the tax payer faces into paying for the banks potential 9bn euro loss.Dining in the Las Brias restaurant in a Marbella Golf Club,he was described as being in "great form .
I for one know where Iwould like to stick a bomb!!!!!!!!!!!

sneakerfreak

Nodin wrote: »

The pipebombs manafacturing came from a released "INLA" man, to be precise, not the RA.

Nice to know you read the news and remembered something Paul Williams and one of his dumbfúck apprentices wrote.

It's I.N.L.A. not "INLA" .

The I.N.L.A. are split into at least three seperate groups with the Dublin,North East and North West groups being run under diffrent structures and fúck knows how the deep South is being run.

Also plenty of ex-members continue to use the name so that if they are locked up they will benefit under the Good Friday Agreement.

There is not one man (situated in Meath if you are to believe the red tops) teaching people how to make and use pipe bombs.

This procedure is being taught by many people (including people who taught themselves by searching the internet) and not just "A released "INLA" man".

The Continuity I.R.A. are the main players in this game,please google for example:

Daniel McFaul Pipe Bomb Coolock

Martin O'Rourke Pipe Bomb M50

5 Men Arrested in Pipe Bomb Factory (Gareth Piggot,Gareth Burn).

By the way pipe bombs are pretty much useless if you want to kill people,unfortunately they would be pretty good at killing children and small animals and causing heart attacks amongst the elderly but in all honesty they are just big fireworks and you can discover how to make them quite easily by searching the internet.

Stop reading Paul Williams' crap and start to watch the news and read books and I guarantee you your intelligence will increase dramatically.