Tricks I used to get the CO way way down for the NCT

derry

In your face my reading for my recent a few days ago NCT was

low idle test result was 0.03% and the Max limits are 0.5%
840 rpm HC 0 PPM
high idle test result was 0.02% and the Max limits are 0.3%
2790 high idle HC 20PPM



I had said to the tester I have super tuned the engine and hopefully my reading are very low
He came back after the test and said impressive those are incredible CO reading you reading are more than excellent:pac::pac::pac:

Now I should say I am sure the car would have passed without any tricks as the car is ony 45,000 miles 98 jap thing 3 cyclinder 1000cc serviced regular

But I threw all these tricks at it to see just how far down the scale I could shove the reading

First trick
Try to get a service a few weeks before the test( bit of a no brainer )

Second trick buy Dipane from a motor factors and put some into the tank a week or two before the NCT test day.Taxi drivers swear buy it.
I Did try it as a fuel saver but results 10% saving hard to see but so early in the test so the jury is out on those claims .

Third trick try to take the car for a burn a few days before the test so I went Dublin to Naas at ~60 MPH on the Naas motor way .

That clears any soot accumulations and drive in lowwer gears as much as possible and get the RPM more than 4000 to work the engine and really warm it up


4th trick run the car for a few hours to get engine temp up so let engine idle for an hour before the test

5th trick drive in the lowwesr gear on the way to the NCT test to get engine temp up as in stay at 4000 plus rpm in second gear which eats fuel when you should be in 4th gear to save fuel.The extra volume of fuel going through the cat will make it toasty hot and make it work better for the test


Most cars with good engines will with those tricks have a very good chance to pass the CO test


Those tricks applied to car on the edge of the limits might get it to squeauk past the test

---

The following tricks are at your own risk as the tricks are not recommended by the car manufactuer and can wreck your engine so if you practice this its EXPERMATAL and at your own risk so if you feck your engine dont blame me you been warned

6th trick bump up the amount of fuel type that burn more cleanly

Basically Irish petrol best I can figure is crud rubbish of the EU which wouldnt be allowed to be sold in many countries in the EU

Some brands are marginaly better than others best i can figure but seems as they all come from the same refinery I cant see that difference there is except a few additives thrown in to the individual tanker that delevers to the particular petrol station .Tesco seems to be according the buzz in the forum in other threads suggest it is worst of the worst crap petrol fuel in ROI and many complain loss of MPG when using that fuel.My tests are still ongoing so jury is also out on that issue

To undersatnd how to change the fuel to a cleaner better burning fuel you need to know why Irish petrol is so crappy

First is petrol is made of 200 chemicals .The most important is naptha and naphenes.

The ideal petrols would be closer to 100% naphines but for tecky resons thats to expensive like €10 a liter if they supplied it that pure

So petrol world wide is cut down with other crud to keep prices for fuel lowwer sometimes including 20% kerozene in third world countries and it alters the octane and other factors conspire against using much high naptha fuels.

The petrol in the USA has about 40% of these naptha and naphenes best I can figure
The petrol in the ROI has about 30% of these naptha and naphenes best I can figure


This higher naphtha for USA fuel is due to the sources of the oil mexico south america etc have a oil that contails a higher amount of these chemicals naphines so USA petrol fuel has more ummph and less crap


This results in better MPG per gallon with USA petrol as it has less crap that doesnt burn than irish petrol which has more crud in it and ROI oil is sourced from arab region mostly

Best I can tell of the 200 chemicals in petrol only ten burn totaly properly and 180 are barely burning and burn badly and make all the polution and are just a cheapo way to dump waste oil that refineries cant get rid of for cheap so best to get tail pipes of cars to do the dirty work.

Now you know why the air in Dublin and ROI cities is so wicked crappy
Cats dont catch this crap until they get hot so bucket loads of unburnt petrol goes into the air and creates a toxic haze over the cities

Better than the old days when there was no cats at all but a long way from clean


Thats what the cat does it cleans up the crud in the unburnt fuel thaty comes out the engine so as to reduce the polution.If the fuel is pure petrol cost € 6 a liter which can be bought in the UK mainland not ROI or NI ( You need to specify unleaded with 5% alcohol normal octane .) and with that fuel you could nearly probably pass the NCT test with no cat using this pure petrol as all the fuel would be burnt up more properly.Just be the issue of having a fake Cat on the car otherwise you fail for not having a Cat


So one trick is get a few gallons of that pure fuel from a car racing shop in the UK (make sure its not leaded fuel as leaded fuel wrecks the cats )

I havent tried that trick as its to much trouble to get the pure petrol fuel as they dont send petrol through the post box and costs like €200 to post like 1 gallon as it goes HAZMAT hazardous materials.

You may have to add 5% alcohols if the fuel is 100% petrol unleaded or you would get pinking issues(Not for the average home brew mechanic )

Instead I went into making my own home brew version

First thing is ROI petrol contains ~5% alcohol in it.This actually can vary and be from 3% to 8% and this is legal best I can tell.I suspect depending on the this that and the other like its cheaper than petrol often that when petrol is 1.50 a liter the petrol here can have more like 10% in it and when petrol is cheap like now the amount is more like 3%.Also winter they change it down a tad and summer raise it a tad along with other stuff they put in the fuel.

So we can be fairly sure that the average car is tolerant of ~5% alcohol in the petrol

Basically Alcohol is simple molicule which often tends to burn very cleanly.If you could get a engine modified to run on 100% alchol you could probaly get rid of the cat as the fumes are nearly totally non toxic.However when the engine is cold the alchol is slow to burn and if your running E85 fuel which is 85% alcohol there is wicked strong whiff of brewery as you drive a cold car though your housing estate and the neighbours will have you pegged as a real alco.Alcohol molicules in the air break up into mostly water molicules even if they fall on the exposed earth.Unburnt petrol fuels are more toxic and contain some benzenes a realy nasty crap

It also takes a long time for a car engine to warm up on alchol fuels as it burns cooler.Pure alcohol will tend to never have carbon deposits and have a lot less wear as the heat in the engine will be much lowwer .However the MPG from alchohol fuels is about ~25% less than good petrol like the USA and maybe ~10% with the crappy stuff we got in the ROI best I can figure

When fuel prices were high a while ago I decided to see if my car a non flex fuel car could run on E85 without changing anything and for 6 months I ran it with E85 no issues.Saved a lot of money when petrol was 1.40 and E85 waas $1.00 a liter .I obtrained from the net that a simplex asperated small jap cars often can be tolerant of E85 as the engines are made to run on good fuels in USA to crappy fuel in ROI to real crud which is often have a higher kerozene content in it as is the norm in the third world countries


This means the the tuning is sloppy and is nearly a flex fuel car by default.The more complex cars with injectors sometimes need a gizmo to keep the injectors open longer to supply more fuel when using E85 and E85 kits to modify ordinary cars to run on E85 in ROI cost about ~€600
very complex Turbop charged can be more critical of the fuels and nearly always need E85 kits to use E85 fuels

However running most cars with a E85 kit if it needs it or a E85 fuel if it doesnt need it will often return a 10% to 20% boost in power and is a cheap mans turbo power when the engine has warmed up. Some guys just add 30% E85 to the petrol and get about 5% boost in power


For my car to burn alchol properly I really need to advance timing as the alchol is classed as high octane fuel and this means my timing is too retarded to burn the fuel properly.I dont do that because if I switch back to petrol I would need to retard the timing or risk to get pinking pre detonation from the lower octane petrol.So the engine is tuned to use petrol and when it uses E85 the timing being to retarded only risks not to burn the fuel totally properly and get less MPG but less liklely to cuase engine issues like increased wear and tear or damage .Timing too advanced can easily wreck an engine so most engines are tuned a tad to late or retarded in case the local fuel at the pump is 10% alcohol content or higher octane for otehr resons

So for passing the NCT using pure alchol cost about €4 a liter or only E85 would require to much modifications but if you did that with a suitable kit your reading might even be zero if it was 100% alcohol

So I increased the alcohol content up to ~25% using about ~30% E85 and had ~70% petrol

However that introduces the problem of the engine running to cool and if the engine is cool the strong whiff of a brewery coming out the tail pipe might get the NCT guys to twig something.

So now the problem is how to get more heat back into the engine for the NCT test

So that s where secret ingredient Colemans petrol comes in

Colemans petrol is extremly high naptha and naphines.Used in petrol lights and petrol cookers it burns extremly cleanly as it has like 10 chemicals in it and non of the drud that petrol pump fuel has.
If you run petrol cookers with ordinary pump petrol the cooker becomes black and crappy and gums up .The fumes using pump petrol are also really toxic if its inside a tent or a shed or enclosed space as there is no CAT to catch the crud

Also pump petrol has so many crappy chemicals in it that if you keep it for a few months it makes a gumm in it that gums up a car if you throw that crap into the tank.Petrol from the fuel pump is only garenteed for three months.
Colemans fuel becuase it is a pure petrol fuel can be stored for over twenty years so is popular in Canda outback as back up fuel for generators where the fuel get stored for years .

If you leaving your car alone for long periods like a year drain the tank to reduce risks of gummy fuel gumming the works


However if you threw 100% pure colemans into the petrol tank of the average car you would grill the engine as it burns extremly hot much hotter than pump petrol .A car made and built to run only Colemans fuel would probably get ~100 MPG .However the stuff in ROI costs like ~ €90 euros a gallon .In the USA the stuff is about €15 euros a UK gallon in the hardware store.In ROI in camping shop O Mearas has colemans fuels and 1/2 liter cost €9 or €18 a liter or ~ €90 euros

If someone know cheaper places let me know I need more Colemans and pure petrols for other projects using model engines for model planes cars helicopters and liquid fueled model ram jets and rocket engines


So for pratical purposes adding some colemans fuel to ROI petrol which is missing naphta should improve the burn in the engine

So I ran the tank down to about a gallon and threw in 1/2 liter to that mix of 30% E85 and 70% petrol.This now adds napha which adds heat to the fuel and more of the fuel is similar to better burning USA petrol.Also Coleamns is a low octane fuel about 70 on the octane .Adding a low octane fuel to high octane fuel will bring the octane back down closer to normal petrol octane .This means my timing for the engine is closer to correct foir the NCT test

In your face:pac::pac::pac:


For me it is more evidence that for car owners doing high milage getting a E85 kit and running on pure E85 or high ratios of E85 will help keep the engines running better and longer and lead to less maintinace cost in the long run. Its also more evidence that we need to push the government to make the amount of the fuel that contains alchol higher like Brazil did where most cars use 25% alcohol fuels and lots of cars use even 100% alcohol fuels..It would help keep the air in cities cleaner and give more umph to cars


Derry

Mr Benevolent

Hmmm. I've heard about the high revs trick and I'm sure it works reasonably well. The rest sounds like crap to me.

cuculainn

derry wrote: »

In your face my reading for my recent a few days ago NCT was

low idle test result was 0.03% and the Max limits are 0.5%
high idle test result was 0.02% and the Max limits are 0.3%

I had said to the tester I have super tuned the engine and hopefully my reading are very low
He came back after the test and said impressive those are incredible CO reading you reading are more than excellent:pac::pac::pac:

Now I should say I am sure the car would have passed without any tricks as the car is ony 45,000 miles 98 jap thing 3 cyclinder 1000cc

But I threw all these tricks at it to see just how far down the scale I could shove the reading

First trick
Try to get a service a few weeks before the test( bit of a no brainer )

Second trick buy Dipane from a motor factors and put some into the tank a week or two before the NCT test day.Taxi drivers swear buy it.
I Did try it as a fuel saver but results 10% saving hard to see but so early in the test so the jury is out on those claims .

Third trick try to take the car for a burn a few days before the test so I went Dublin to Naas at ~60 MPH on the Naas motor way .

That clears any soot accumulations and drive in lowwer gears as much as possible and get the RPM more than 4000 to work the engine and really warm it up


4th trick run the car for a few hours to get engine temp up so let engine idle for an hour before the test

5th trick drive in the lowwesr gear on the way to the NCT test to get engine temp up as in stay at 4000 plus rpm in second gear which eats fuel when you should be in 4th gear to save fuel


Most cars with good engines will with those tricks have a very good chance to pass the CO test

---

The following tricks are at your own risk as the tricks are not recommended by the car manufactuer and can wreck your engine so if you practice this its EXPERMATAL and at your own risk so if you feck your engine dont blame me you been warned

6th trick bump up the amount of fuel type that burn more cleanly

Basically Irish petrol best I can figure is crud rubbish which wouldnt be allowed to be sold in many countries in the EU

some brands are marginaly better than others but as they all come from the same refinery I cant see that difference there is excdept a few additives thrown in to the tanker that delevers to the station .Tesco seems to be according the buzz in the forum to the worst of the worst crap petrol fuel in ROI and many complain loss of MPG when using that fuel.

To undersatnd how to change the fuel to a cleaner better burning fuel you need to know why Irish petrol is so crappy

First is petrol is made of 200 chemicals .The most important is naptha and naphenes.

The ideal petrols would be closer to 100% naphines but for tecky resons thats to expensive like €10 a liter if they supplied it that pure

So petrol world wide is cut down with other crud to keep prices for fuel lowwer sometimes including 20% kerozene in third world countries

The petrol in the USA has about 40% of these naptha and naphenes best I can figure
The petrol in the ROI has about 30% of these naptha and naphenes best I can figure


This higher naphtha for USA fuel is due to the sources of the oil mexico south america etc have a oil that contails a higher amount of these chemicals naphines so USA petrol fuel has more ummph and less crap


This results in better MPG per gallon with USA petrol as it has less crap that doesnt burn than irish petrol which has more crud in it

Best I can tell of the 200 chemicals in petrol only ten burn properly and 180 are barely burning and burn badly and make all the polution and are just a cheapo way to dump waste oil that refineries cant get rid of for cheap so best to get tail pipes of cars to do the dirty work.

Now you know why the air in Dublin and ROI cities is so wicked crappy
Cats dont catch this crap until they get hot so bucket loads of unburnt petrol goes into the air and creates a toxic haze over the cities

Better than the old days when there was no cats at all but a long way from clean


Thats what the cat does it cleans up the crud in the fuel.If the fuel is pure petrol cost € 6 a liter which can be bought in the UK mainland not ROI or NI . You need to specify unleaded with 5% alcohol normal octane .With that fuel you could nearly probably pass the NCT test with no cat using this pure petrol as all the fuel would be burnt up more properly.


So one trick is get a few gallons of that pure fuel from a car racing shop in the UK (make sure its not leaded fuel as leaded fuel wrecks the cats )

I havent tried that trick as its to much trouble to get the pure petrol fuel as they dont send petrol through the post box and costs like €200 to post like 1 gallon as it goes HAZMAT hazardous materials.

You may have to add 5% alcohols if the fuel is 100% petrol unleaded

Instead I went into making my own home brew version

First thing is ROI petrol contains ~5% alcohol in it.This actually can vary and be from 3% to 8% and this is legal best I can tell.I suspect depending on the this that and the other like its cheaper than petrol often that when petrol is 1.50 a liter the petrol here can have more like 10% in it and when petrol is cheap like now the amount is more like 3%.

So we can be fairly sure that the average car is tolerant of ~5% alcohol in the petrol

Basically Alcohol is simple molicule which often tends to burn very cleanly.If you could get a engine modified to run on 100% alchol you could probaly get rid of the cat as the fumes are nearly totally non toxic.However when the engine is cold the alchol is slow to burn and if your running E85 fuel which is 85% alcohol there is wicked strong whiff of brewery as you drive a cold car though your housing estate and the neighbours will have you pegged as a real alco.Alcohol molicules in the air break up inot mostly water molicules even if they fall on the exposed earth.Unburnt petrol fuels are more toxic and contain some benzenes a realy nasty crap

It also takes a long time for a car engine to warm up on alchol fuels as it burns cooler.Pure alcohol will tend to never have carbon deposits and have a lot less wear as the heat in the engine will be much lowwer .However the MPG from alchohol fuels is about ~25% less than good petrol like the USA and maybe ~10% with the crappy stuff we got in the ROI best I can figure

When fuel prices were high a while ago I decided to see if my car a non flex fuel car could run on E85 without changing anything and for 6 months I ran it with E85 no issues.Saved a lot of money when petrol was 1.40 and E85 waas $1.00 a liter .I obtrained from the net that a simplex asperated small jap cars often can be tolerant of E85 as the engines are made to run on good fuels in USA to crappy fuel in ROI to real crud which is often have a higher kerozene content in it as is the norm in the third world countries


This means the the tuning is sloppy and is nearly a flex fuel car by default.The more complex cars with injectors sometimes need a gizmo to keep the injectors open longer to supply more fuel when using E85 and E85 kits to modify ordinary cars to run on E85 in ROI cost about ~€600
very complex Turbop charged can be more critical of the fuels and nearly always need E85 kits to use E85 fuels

However running most cars with a E85 kit if it needs it or a E85 fuel if it doesnt need it will often return a 10% to 20% boost in power and is a cheap mans turbo power when the engine has warmed up. Some guys just add 30% E85 to the petrol and get about 5% boost in power


For my car to burn alchol properly I really need to advance timing as the alchol is classed as high octane fuel and this means my timing is too retarded to burn the fuel properly.I dont do that because if I switch back to petrol I would need to retard the timing or risk to get pinking pre detonation from the lower octane petrol.So the engine is tuned to use petrol and when it uses E85 the timing being to retarded only risks not to burn the fuel totally properly and get less MPG but less liklely to cuase engine issues like increased wear and tear or damage .Timing too advanced can easily wreck an engine so most engines are tuned a tad to late or retarded in case the local fuel at the pump is 10% alcohol content or higher octane for otehr resons

So for passing the NCT using pure alchol cost about €4 a liter or only E85 would require to much modifications but if you did that with a suitable kit your reading might even be zero if it was 100% alcohol

So I increased the alcohol content up to ~25% using about ~30% E85 and had ~70% petrol

However that introduces the problem of the engine running to cool and if the engine is cool the strong whiff of a brewery coming out the tail pipe might get the NCT guys to twig something.

So now the problem is how to get more heat back into the engine for the NCT test

So that s where secret ingredient Colemans petrol comes in

Colemans petrol is extremly high naptha and naphines.Used in petrol lights and petrol cookers it burns extremly cleanly as it has like 10 chemicals in it and non of the drud that petrol pump fuel has.
If you run petrol cookers with ordinary pump petrol the cooker becomes black and crappy and gums up .The fumes using pump petrol are also really toxic if its inside a tent or a shed or enclosed space as there is no CAT to catch the crud

Also pump petrol has so many crappy chemicals in it that if you keep it for a few months it makes a gumm in it that gums up a car if you throw that crap into the tank.Petrol from the fuel pump is only garenteed for three months.
Colemans fuel becuase it is a pure petrol fuel can be stored for over twenty years so is popular in Canda outback as back up fuel for generators where the fuel get stored for years .

If you leaving your car alone for long periods like a year drain the tank to reduce risks of gummy fuel gumming the works


However if you threw 100% pure colemans into the petrol tank of the average car you would grill the engine as it burns extremly hot much hotter than pump petrol .A car made and built to run only Colemans fuel would probably get ~100 MPG .However the stuff in ROI costs like ~ €90 euros a gallon .In the USA the stuff is about €15 euros a UK gallon in the hardware store.In ROI in camping shop O Mearas has colemans fuels and 1/2 liter cost €9 or €18 a liter or ~ €90 euros

If someone know cheaper places let me know I need more Colemans and pure petrols for other projects using model engines for model planes cars helicopters and liquid fueled model ram jets and rocket engines


So for pratical purposes adding some colemans fuel to ROI petrol which is missing naphta should improve the burn in the engine

So I ran the tank down to about a gallon and threw in 1/2 liter to that mix of 30% E85 and 70% petrol.This now adds napha which adds heat to the fuel and more of the fuel is similar to better burning USA petrol.Also Coleamns is a low octane fuel about 70 on the octane .Adding a low octane fuel to high octane fuel will bring the octane back down closer to normal petrol octane .This means my timing for the engine is closer to correct foir the NCT test

In your face:pac::pac::pac:


Derry

Alot of information there.................................

But for some one looking to pass the emissions test just the Dipane and a good hard drive in a low gear/high revsto the NCT test center to have the car warm is sufficient!!


Not to many people could be arsed mixing petrol/alcohol etc.........

milltown

:rolleyes:

An awful lot of "best I can tell" and "best I can figure" in there.
Honestly, why would you be arsed if you reckoned at the start of your post that your car would pass anyway.

Cuculainn, why did you feel the need to quote the whole post? You're just wasting the internet.

Robbo

Did you run the electricity off the gas and the gas off the electricity and save £10 a week?

Cosmo K

95% of all cars will pass the emmissions test without that nonsense. If a car fails the emissions test, there is most likely something wrong withe fuel injection system, a dodgy airflow meter for example.

A high CO reading means, your engine is burning too much fuel, which ios costing you money. So, why not get fixed whatever is wrong with your car if it fails the test, and save money in the long run?

P.S

Dipane doesn't work! If your CO is high, because your cat converter is f***ed, Dipane will make no difference whatsover.

You can boost the fuel octane very effectively using toluene. You just need to find the correct mixing ratio for the octane you want to achieve(within reason obviously), no need for race fuel from the UK.

A lad was telling me he did the nct on E85 with no cat at all and he didnt tell them. They were astonished when the machine was giving a CO reading of 0. They thought it was broken, even brought up the next car to check it out. He didnt tell them after either just left them guessing.

L-M

A good service and a good hard drive before it going in for the nct works wonders.

cuculainn

Robbo wrote: »

Did you run the electricity off the gas and the gas off the electricity and save £10 a week?

Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

but43r

Before I brought my car for NCT I filled her up with Biodiesel. The reading for CO was about 10 times lower than maximum allowed. I didn't tell them either so they where checking it about 3 times :D

robtri

milltown wrote: »

:rolleyes:

An awful lot of "best I can tell" and "best I can figure" in there.
Honestly, why would you be arsed if you reckoned at the start of your post that your car would pass anyway.

Cuculainn, why did you feel the need to quote the whole post? You're just wasting the internet.

Cosmo K wrote: »

95% of all cars will pass the emmissions test without that nonsense. If a car fails the emissions test, there is most likely something wrong withe fuel injection system, a dodgy airflow meter for example.

A high CO reading means, your engine is burning too much fuel, which ios costing you money. So, why not get fixed whatever is wrong with your car if it fails the test, and save money in the long run?

P.S

Dipane doesn't work! If your CO is high, because your cat converter is f***ed, Dipane will make no difference whatsover.

a lot of crap here alright....

if your car is high on emmissions as stated, soemthing is wrong, don't bury your head and try to hide it, get it fixed and sort the issue out properly....

Cosmo K

but43r wrote: »

Before I brought my car for NCT I filled her up with Biodiesel. The reading for CO was about 10 times lower than maximum allowed. I didn't tell them either so they where checking it about 3 times :D

No, they didn't. Its a nice story alright, but I don't think they repeated the diesel test 3 times, just because the car passed the first time. Trust me, we have better things to do.

cuculainn

Cosmo K wrote: »

P.S

Dipane doesn't work! If your CO is high, because your cat converter is f***ed, Dipane will make no difference whatsover.

Dipane wont work if your cat is F*ucked....But it does work if your injectors/valves etc need a bit of a clean....a car that does a lot of city driving will accumulate alot of dirt from incomplete combustion.

A good hard drive will prob do the same job though.......


But I had a car that the cat light was coming on saying it was not working efficiently.....garage told me new cat was needed and that there was no way it would pass the test.

Turned off the warning light and threw some Dipane into the fuel and passed the NCT.


This may mean that the dipane worked, but was most likely that the warning light was coming on too soon...ie that the cat was at 95% efficiency or something...but still enough to do the job...

Cosmo K

cuculainn wrote: »

A good hard drive will prob do the same job though........

And cost less;)

Dartz

Or you could just ignore it....

I mean, especially considering anthropegenic global warming is a load of bollox, just because your car emits a little too much CO2... doesnt make it unsafe to drive.

A bolloxed cat is the death of a car of any reasonable age, a car that would otherwise be perfectly serviceable. Now then, would driving your current car for another five years, until it finally does need to be repaired, and replacing it then, be greener than buying a new car the moment your current one fails an emissions test?

You take the big whack of the pollution that goes into building the new car immediately. Of refining and manufacturing the parts. Of shipping them to Malaysia. Of building the car and maintaining the factory. Of shipping it on a container ship halfway round the world, and then driving it to the dealer, before it ever farts out an emission in your ownership.

I'll restate my question.
In overall scale, is it greener to keep a polluting car that is in serviceable condition, or buy a new 'built from scratch' green mobile?

I always laugh at those idiots who junk a 2 year old M-class SUV for a Prius, and call themselves green. You're as green as green paint. Nothing but a veneer of environmentalism.

Either way, any well maintained fuel injected car should meet the unburned hydrocarbon limits. Carburreted cars maybe not, but damn near any fuel injected car would do it provided the fuel and engine systems were clean and in good order.

Which means getting the engine good and hot regularly. As always, short cycles murder engines.

Good post OP

Cosmo K

Dartz wrote: »

Or you could just ignore it....

I mean, especially considering anthropegenic global warming is a load of bollox, just because your car emits a little too much CO2... doesnt make it unsafe to drive.

Good post OP

CO2 emissions are actually not part of the NCT's emissions test. They only check the level of CO or Carbonmonoxide your car produces.

Dartz

My bad...Co2 is what most people talk about.... Ooops. but the rest of the rant still stands.

Mr Benevolent

Carbonmonoxide

To be fair, a hell of a lot of CO is created in the manufacture of a car as well.

Dartz

But from a general resource use point of view. All of the resources that must go into producing the new car, all of the new resources that must be refined, manufactured and shipped. All the emissions and by-products of this, Co2, Co, Any other pollutants which may be released, depending on the process used.

On a worldwide scale, regardless of what measure of pollution is used, holding onto a serviceable car, is greener than buying a newer supposedly greener model. On a local scale, using a greener model may improve local atmospheric conditions, but then you're just shifting the problem elsewhere.

derry

Kolton Long Scaffolding wrote:

You can boost the fuel octane very effectively using toluene. You just need to find the correct mixing ratio for the octane you want to achieve(within reason obviously), no need for race fuel from the UK.

A lad was telling me he did the nct on E85 with no cat at all and he didnt tell them. They were astonished when the machine was giving a CO reading of 0. They thought it was broken, even brought up the next car to check it out. He didnt tell them after either just left them guessing.

Great feed back lads

The E85 without a cat confirmed my guess that if we all ran alcohol cars we save to bother to have a cat and get more power from our cars.A nice side effect would be less polution in the towns and better still less polution inside the car we drive.

Often not well known is air polution inside the car you drive is 7 time higher inside your car than outside in the street.So if your car is using a fuel that is toxic like petrol your exposing youself and family friends whatever to high levels of toxins inside the car .As E85 fuels use less petrol and 85% alchohols which are not toxic in the same way the E85 fuels are probably a lot safer to the car user

The main purpose of the thread is now a lot of us might need to keep the old banger going a lot longer and sometimes we need to squek past a NCT test.Often after passing the test then getting the engine retuend or reworked is economic as there is now a 2 year NCT passed test to make it economicaly worthwhile.

I chose to get the reading as low as possible using the most petrol fuel component as possible to give others who need the info the info what goes on inside the engine

Having worked all over europe and parts of Africa I have gathered lots of info about things that can help cars keep going longer

So the trick here in ROI is if the car is on the edge for the test these tricks might squek you past the test


Now I saw small rust spots starting underside which now I passed the NCT test I might look stop with paints whatever which isnt worth doing if the it failed the NCT


The issue for fuel here in ROI is for the NCT test more or less limited to naphines and the lack of it in ROI fuels .Toulenes is one of the add on component that make low octane fuel like high naphine fuels which suit low compression motors and fuel economy and adding toulene will make the fuel a higher octane which then requires a higher compression motor to work properly.

On the subject of Toulene if you put high octane fuel with a high toulene content in the fuel it will make the fuel slow to burn properly and reduce economy if the car is a economic low compression run about .

The same high toulene high octane fuel in a high compression sports power engine will burn much better give more power but economy will still be lower than low compresion motors with low compression fuels

Another way to make a low octane fuel have a high octane is to add Alchohol to the fuel and also economy suffers but power goes up


If you bump up the octane of the fuel in car you need to advance the timing to burn the fuel better.If you dont adjust the timing the risk is more unburnt fuel with high levels of CO that will exit the tail pipe you risk to fail the NCT test

If you reduce the octane of the fuel you need to retard the ignition and the risk if you dont is the engine might suffer pinking or predetonation which might also create unburnt fuels but more likely wreck the engine

So when I addded the Alcohol and made the fuel higher octane and didnt change the timing I required a way to reduce the octane .As colemans fuel is very low octane this made the octane of the fuel drop down again


For other experment can you Kolton Long Scaffolding supply a source where to buy toulene at a economic price




Derry

cooperguy

People are saying there is no good use for this. What about if you were to import a car, do you not have to put it through an NCT now before you pay VRT? If your emissons are lower than normal can you not bring the cert to the tax office as proof of lower emissions and pay a lower percentage?

Matt Simis

Cosmo K wrote: »

Dipane doesn't work! If your CO is high, because your cat converter is f***ed, Dipane will make no difference whatsover.

You mean Dipetane? What exactly doesnt it work at? I have logged tests of it on two vehicles, what did you test?

Kolton Long Scaffolding wrote: »

You can boost the fuel octane very effectively using toluene. You just need to find the correct mixing ratio for the octane you want to achieve(within reason obviously), no need for race fuel from the UK.

Race fuel from UK, I get "race fuel" from the local Maxol.
Just use E5. Same high octane but lower burning temp, premixed and zero cost over regular unleaded. Toluene's hard to source, expensive and has its own issues. Toluene was the solution we craved before E5.

derry

derry wrote: »

Great feed back lads
The same high toulene high octane fuel in a high compression sports power engine will burn much better give more power but economy will still be lower than low compresion motors with low compression fuels

Derry

Correct. There is no point in adding toluene to a normal car. My experience with toluene is through a friend who bought a highly modified car from the UK which was mapped for 97ron petrol. Here is galway there is nothing above 95ron and his car was knocking(detonation) like crazy on 95ron when running high boost, The addition of toluene solved the problem and he could use all the power without any det.

Matt Simis

Kolton Long Scaffolding wrote: »

Correct. There is no point in adding toluene to a normal car. My experience with toluene is through a friend who bought a highly modified car from the UK which was mapped for 97ron petrol. Here is galway there is nothing above 95ron and his car was knocking(detonation) like crazy on 95ron when running high boost, The addition of toluene solved the problem and he could use all the power without any det.

Did he try the E5 that everyone else with high octane maps is using? I have a E5 specific map on the Allroad.

Maxol have 5 stations in Galway:
http://www.maxol.ie/service-station/asearch-20.html

derry

Matt Simis wrote: »

You mean Dipetane? What exactly doesnt it work at? I have logged tests of it on two vehicles, what did you test?

Dipetane best I can tell solves some problems but not all problems.It probably gets rid of gunge in the pipes and injectors.It might help the cat clean off soot deposits .However if the CAT is totaly fecked I cant see it solving that problem .However if the fuel you use isnt crappy petrol but a clean fuel like natural gas which burns cleanly or Alcohol or E85 as in 85% alcohol 15% petrol then those clean burning fuels might not need any cat to pass the NCT test.

Matt Simis wrote:

Race fuel from UK, I get "race fuel" from the local Maxol.
Just use E5. Same high octane but lower burning temp, premixed and zero cost over regular unleaded. Toluene's hard to source, expensive and has its own issues. Toluene was the solution we craved before E5.

Regular unleaded best I know in ROI is 5% alcohol 95% petrol for all makes of fuel like Maxol,Shell ,Texeco, Topaz ,etc. Its just Maxol calls it E5 and the others call it unleaded but its all the same stuff

What happened is in the past all petrol was 100% petrol with some lead additives. The more lead added the higher the octane so the the higher the compression of the engine could be and therefore the bigger the power but the worse the MPG.

EU and others world wide banned lead additives .A way to solve that issue is 5% alcohol could replace the lead .Having 10% alcohol made higher octane . Having more and more Alcohol up to 85% such as E85 fuels makes even higher Octane. So some guys will buy 50% E5 fuel and then add 50% E85 fuel to make a E40% fuel which will make the car perform with more ommph. But they might not use pure E85 as that might require to many expensive mods to make that fuel work.Thats sorta like a cheap turbo effect for the car without to buy the turbo and might supply 10% more power than E5 fuel would.
I know my car for best MPG and still get more power it prefers about 2/3rds E5 petrol 1/3 E85 and that makes a E25 fuel roughly.For less MPG but max power it prefers 2/3rd E85 and 1/3 e5 which makes roughly a E70 fuel. The car will run on pure E85 but the engine takes along time to heat up and the heater is crap as there isnt the hot petrol to steal heat from so its cold driving the car in the winter if I use pure E85.In winter I prefer toi use more petrol as it burns hotter and make the car heater stronger


In some countries you dial the dail on the petrol pump at the petrol station how much fuel type you want like maybe you dail in E15 and then you get 15% alcohol 85% petrol.That way you talor the fuel to exactly suit what works best for your car .


Derry

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

Did he try the E5 that everyone else with high octane maps is using? I have a E5 specific map on the Allroad.

Maxol have 5 stations in Galway:
http://www.maxol.ie/service-station/asearch-20.html

They dont sell E5 in Galway. He has contacted Maxol about it and they have given him wishy washy answers about when they will have it in Galway. He has since installed a water injection system(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)) which is working very well so he is not too worried at the moment.

Edit: which means he can run the car on 95ron with no det.

Matt Simis

Kolton Long Scaffolding wrote: »

They dont sell E5 in Galway. He has contacted Maxol about it and they have given him wishy washy answers about when they will have it in Galway. He has since installed a water injection system(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)) which is working very well so he is not too worried at the moment.

Edit: which means he can run the car on 95ron with no det.

I had a Water Injection System, self built, in my S4. Worked great but that was the days before E5, its pointless now. Infact Water Injection can be "troublesome" for Throttle Bodies..

Dunno what your local garages are telling you, havent they done the rebranding (ie marketing POS) at the pump there by now? As Derry says, pretty much all fuel here is E5 now.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

I had a Water Injection System, self built, in my S4. Worked great but that was the days before E5, its pointless now. Infact Water Injection can be "troublesome" for Throttle Bodies..

Dunno what your local garages are telling you, havent they done the rebranding (ie marketing POS) at the pump there by now? As Derry says, pretty much all fuel here is E5 now.

The email which was received from maxol on the subject of E5 in Galway a few months ago.

"Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we are not yet in a position to roll out E5 ex Cork or Galway , for the moment. We are reviewing this on an ongoing basis but it is likely to be at least some months before this position will change.

Please check our website for any updates or further information on these developments over the coming months, as all information regarding this matter will be posted there.

Should you have any further queries at this time, please do not hesitate to contact our office.

Thank you for your interest.

Sue McIntyre
Maxol Limited
3 Custom House Plaza
IFSC, Dublin 1
Telephone 01 6076800 Fax 01 6076850"

Matt Simis

Considering the Ethanol they uses comes from Cork, thats a pretty poor show indeed. Their website also lists it as available at "all 150 Service Stations". Maybe the garages there are not counted as part of the Maxol network.

Do they sell E85 there? Its possible to use it as an Octane Booster too.

derry

Kolton Long Scaffolding wrote: »

The email which was received from maxol on the subject of E5 in Galway a few months ago.

"Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we are not yet in a position to roll out E5 ex Cork or Galway , for the moment. We are reviewing this on an ongoing basis but it is likely to be at least some months before this position will change.

Please check our website for any updates or further information on these developments over the coming months, as all information regarding this matter will be posted there.

Should you have any further queries at this time, please do not hesitate to contact our office.

Thank you for your interest.

Sue McIntyre
Maxol Limited
3 Custom House Plaza
IFSC, Dublin 1
Telephone 01 6076800 Fax 01 6076850"

I dont know what Sue McIntyre is talking about but I need some of what she is smoking

The EU rules best I know say all lead addditives must be romved from petrol to make unleaded fuel.
All petrol must be oxygenated of at least 2.5% so as to improve the fuel burn and create less nitros oxide emmisions

What are Oxygenates
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/mtbe.html

quoted from eia.doe.gov for legitimate education requirements

eia.doe.gov wrote:

What are Oxygenates
Oxygenates are hydrocarbons that contain one or more oxygen atoms. The primary oxygenates are alcohols and ethers, including: fuel ethanol, methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE), and tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME).

To think we can end up breathing in that sorta stuff when the cats are cold:eek: EEEKKKKK

Well when you remove lead additives the octane of the fuel drops .So have to add something to bring the octane back up .
You can raise octane with adding toulene or ethanol alcohol or buthanal alcohol or even methanol alcohol or derivitive alcohols like MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether ) and sometimes some complex bizzare strange oil waste products and some other more complex expensive solutions.

Toulene is expensive so less likly solution .MTBE is extremly toxic and in the USA is banned so proably banned in the EU.Oil waste products are cheapest solution and nobody knows for sure outside the oil industry or the silenced government regime test centers if that solution is used to some extent .
Too litle is known about all the complex chemical solutions to cover here but most info suggests it too expensive a solution.The alcohols must not interfer with the rubber plastic gaskets and pipe that cars use .So often Methanol wont work as it eats the gaskets.Ethanol and Buthanol work fine but seems that only Ethanol is used possibly its because its cheaper

Solutions like using toulene or complex chemical solutions often dont oxygenate the fuel .

Alcohols often have 30% to 50% of the molicule as oxygen in the molicule which oxygenates the fuel

So if you add 5% to 7% of alchol to the fuel you oxygenate the fuel and you raise the octane of the fuel to what suits most cars

So best I can tell every petrol in ROI has at least 5% ethanol alcohol added to it and therfore all fuel everywhere in ROI is E5

Now Maxol is the only one who sells very high octane E85 where the fuel is 85% ethanol alcohol and 15% petrol

Cork sells E85 for sure .I think galway also does

if you buy a one gallon can of that E85 and add it to ten gallons of the E5 you will make a ~E10 fuel

Buy adding more of E85 to E5 fuels you can keep raising the octane value of the fuel until you use only E85 fuel

To get more power fitting a ~€600 E85 kit to your car will allow the car to use E85 fuel and give you max power mayby possibly up to 20% more power which can be cheaper than fitting a turbo.

However if you do lots of miles the lowwer MPG from the E85 fuel could wipe out the saving making a turbo a cheaper solution.

If your cat is fecked it seems that fitting a E85 kit to the engine will alloow the car to pass the NCT with a fecked CAT which might be cheaper than buying a new cat .However if you run the car on petrol you will make a lot of pollution as the cat sorta scrubs up alot of the toxic parts of petrol that want to fall out the tail pipe.However all cars until the cat is hot throw out those toxic products for the first few minutes

Maybe Sue McIntyre been smoking too many tail pipes :eek: and her brain is scrambled


Derry

A-Trak

Sorry for barging in lads, could you tell me where the motors forum is?
I'm a bit lost and seem to have ended up in the back to the future/science forum.

Only kidding, is quite interesting although I've had to google a a good load of things
It's true what they say so, google is my friend.

samsemtex

Ive a question. My S40 has the Mitsubishi GDi engine which apparantly has problems in europe because of the low octane fuel and then suffer from sludge build up. Should i run some sort of E85 mixture in it to keep it clean. It was obviously designed for a higher octane so would putting e85 into it damage it?

derry

A-Trak wrote: »

Sorry for barging in lads, could you tell me where the motors forum is?
I'm a bit lost and seem to have ended up in the back to the future/science forum.

Only kidding, is quite interesting although I've had to google a a good load of things
It's true what they say so, google is my friend.

really donkeys years ago nearly all mechanics knew these details and could work a lathe and make spare parts sometimes and even mold them from cast iron

Nowadays many of the younger irish meckanics are just fiiters who know often squat about anything if it hasn't a part number on the computer and cant tune an engine without a computer engine tuner on hand

You still sometimes find a few mechanics who know something but they are now more often than not Irish mechanics but from eastern europe or third world countries who still have to know how to make cars run anything from cocnut oil

http://www.onecountry.org/e151/e15101as_Deamer_profile.htm

to used cofffe beans

http://gas2.org/2008/05/14/a-truck-that-runs-on-coffee-grounds-and-how-wood-gas-powers-cars-with-garbage/

as the fuel supply is interupted from a coup or something

If you dont know everything about fuel the oil companies have you by the b@lls and will sell you the fancy go fast fuel for a high price when in fact you can often make it yourself for a lot less

Look at Diphane thats Irish made.You probably find in the past every mechanic knew how to make the stuff from local components but only one smart arse decided to bottle and sell it and now we all have to buy the stuff.

I figure in less than two years I will crack whats in that bottle and be able to make my own much cheaper simply going on the net and talking to other mechanics world wide and source the witches brew


In the last war WW2 most Irish mechanics could convert cars to run on TBO tractor burning oil basically kerosene /petrol and parrifin/petrol mix and natural gas. Also town gas .Also from wood like the coofee beans solution and from things like cow dung

In fact its possible to make a petrol car run on diesel if you really want to but it wont run so great and probaly wont pass the emmisions test


If there is war again were fecked if we are depending on modern Irish mechanics which is pity as one time Irish mechanics were world leaders

I dont use google anymore as they track everthing you do

I Use ixquick

http://ixquick.com/

which is data compliant and doesnt fill your computer with spy bots trackinng everthing you do

Derry

derry

Here a more modern example of a wood burning Volvo car that usess trees to make it go

cant see it passsing a Irish NCT for emmission but sure is cheap fuel as Sweden where the car is wood is dirt cheap as they got thousand of square miles of Forests


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kG8iR5DRLpw/wood_gas_car_start/

Derry