Can religious teachings effect mental imbalances?

mickeydevine

I think we've all read about the woman who killed her daughter cause "Mary" told her to and the bus driver stabbed with garden shears as he was possessed by the devil.

Now obviously these people we're insane (schitzo) but I'm wondering does the personification of good and evil and the teachings of these myths (IMO) as fact be a causation in "weak" minds doing terrible deeds. When being taught things not based in reality I think that people with mental problems see forces that just aren't there and more often than not these are religious figures. Is it due to our young minds being fed with fantasy?. Would these acts still have happened in an atheist society? I think they probably would have, maybe "Cucullan" made me do it. Any thoughts?

Rev Hellfire

Do you not think that such a person would have found another concept to latch onto, say homer told me to kill someone because they where really mister Burns.

Religion provides a nice story into which their delusions can mount themselves, but I'm sure other ideas/stories would work as well.

mickeydevine

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Do you not think that such a person would have found another concept to latch onto, say homer told me to kill someone because they where really mister Burns.

Religion provides a nice story into which their delusions can mount themselves, but I'm sure other ideas/stories would work as well.

I do think your correct that they'd latch onto something else but religion has such powerful imagery, like the personification of good and evil and these being taught as facts. For a paranoid schitzo to think that theres someone watching them and judging them constantly then this could be very unsettling and accentuate underlying problems. I'm not sure if they can differentiate between homer the cartoon caracter and a supernatural being who they've been taught all their lives is real, but I haven't heard of any slayings in homers name. It's usually always religious figures.

Galvasean

religion is just one of the many things that 'made me do it' along with Tv, video games, movies and literature.

Rev Hellfire

mickeydevine wrote: »

For a paranoid schitzo to think that theres someone watching them and judging them constantly then this could be very unsettling and accentuate underlying problems.

I hear dades is watching us all the time, but I've got my tinfoil hat so I'm safe...

Dades

Zombrex

mickeydevine wrote: »

I think we've all read about the woman who killed her daughter cause "Mary" told her to and the bus driver stabbed with garden shears as he was possessed by the devil.

Now obviously these people we're insane (schitzo) but I'm wondering does the personification of good and evil and the teachings of these myths (IMO) as fact be a causation in "weak" minds doing terrible deeds. When being taught things not based in reality I think that people with mental problems see forces that just aren't there and more often than not these are religious figures. Is it due to our young minds being fed with fantasy?. Would these acts still have happened in an atheist society? I think they probably would have, maybe "Cucullan" made me do it. Any thoughts?

Again, like a lot of this stuff, I think it is the other way around.

Religion, and the religious ideas of good and evil and good and evil agents in the world acting for and against us come out of the human mind, rather than inspiring the a human mind to imagine them.

Religious ideas are a reflection of the way our mind works. It is not surprising that minds that are faulty will come up with extremes of these concepts.

MatthewVII

mickeydevine wrote: »

I think we've all read about the woman who killed her daughter cause "Mary" told her to and the bus driver stabbed with garden shears as he was possessed by the devil.

Now obviously these people we're insane (schitzo) but I'm wondering does the personification of good and evil and the teachings of these myths (IMO) as fact be a causation in "weak" minds doing terrible deeds. When being taught things not based in reality I think that people with mental problems see forces that just aren't there and more often than not these are religious figures. Is it due to our young minds being fed with fantasy?. Would these acts still have happened in an atheist society? I think they probably would have, maybe "Cucullan" made me do it. Any thoughts?

People who suffer from schizophrenia have imaired reality testing. This means that they are unable to filter through information and extract things which are relevant, things which are irrelevant, what is real and what is not. This impairs their ability to arrive at rational conclusions and make rational decisions.

Religion doesn't necessarily "trigger" any schizophrenic activity any more than any other charged event with high expressed emotion would. However, considering the very powerful themes involved, it could well be an appreciable risk associated with "religious emotion" such as very deep and sincere prayer or perhaps a sincere confession

When something like the events you described (murder for mary etc) happen, this is due to a different mechanism. The delusional perception of someone with schizophrenia takes form in hearing of voices (often commanding) or sometimes seeing significance in everyday things (such as seeing a certain colour car and thinking it means they have to take a shower or such - this ties in with their reality testing impairment - being less able to process information rationally). These delusions will often take the form of something which is familiar to the patient. In the case of religious people, it can very often take the form of religious experiences (hence the typical "I think I'm God" or "I talk to God" presentation). The point is, if it wasn't a religious delusion driving them, it would be something else (common ones are Government and Secret Service related delusions), so while it might seem as if religion is behind it, it's just one manifestation of schizophrenia which could easily have been something else

So to recap -

Mary has abnormal perception, is hearing voices etc
Mary is a religious person
Mary's mind tries to rationalise the experience by accepting it as religious
Mary does something uncharacteristic as she believes a religious force is commanding her.

Religion could just as easily be the government forcing her to wear a lampshade to avoid bugging or believing her family has been replaced by imposters forcing her to stab them.

bluesguitar

any intensive brainwashing has to effect the brain be it Christian, Muslim of even aethism I'm sure! Most people are very forcefull in their beliefs its hard not to be! Some people are happy to grab the first thing they see and believe in that. some people are not and educate themselves outside it untill they find something that makes sense to them! Can't be healthy for anyone to be forced into believing anything

postcynical

affect or effect? (not being smart, the difference is considerable)

IMO affect - probably. effect - possibly but very rarely. As others pointed out unbalanced people would likely find other sources to provoke outlandish and unhealthy behaviour.

Latchy

I have always felt that the teachings of the catholic church was responsible for a lot of mental illness /imbalances / depression /suicide .Any organisation that takes over ( or trys to take over ) an individuals right to think for themselfs as in mind control, is no different to any other organisation / religion who does same .

CDfm

mickeydevine wrote: »

I think we've all read about the woman who killed her daughter cause "Mary" told her to and the bus driver stabbed with garden shears as he was possessed by the devil.

When being taught things not based in reality I think that people with mental problems see forces that just aren't there and more often than not these are religious figures. Is it due to our young minds being fed with fantasy?. Would these acts still have happened in an atheist society? I think they probably would have, maybe "Cucullan" made me do it. Any thoughts?

People use religion as a belief system and to kill is wrong.

Could it happen in an atheist society. Look around you plenty of people murder and kill people without the need to justify their actions. Common sense should tell you that the mentally ill have a skewed version of reality and if they explain their actions using religous phenomona thats because it as close as the can come to explaining it.

pH

postcynical wrote: »

affect or effect? (not being smart, the difference is considerable)

IMO affect - probably. effect - possibly but very rarely. As others pointed out unbalanced people would likely find other sources to provoke outlandish and unhealthy behaviour.

OP goes on to mention causation, meaning he could have meant to use 'effect' in the way it was written, though as you say, people very rarely use 'effect' as a verb correctly and nearly all probably did mean 'affect'.

[/pedant]

CDfm

latchyco wrote: »

I have always felt that the teachings of the catholic church was responsible for a lot of mental illness /imbalances / depression /suicide .Any organisation that takes over ( or trys to take over ) an individuals right to think for themselfs as in mind control, is no different to any other organisation / religion who does same .

Bollox - you might as well say that because atheists dont believe in God and that as christians suicide is a sin then supporting atheism you are making suicide acceptable.

Where is your evidence.

pH

CDfm wrote: »

Where is your evidence.

ROFL

CDfm

pH wrote: »

ROFL

well i made a case for the link between atheism and suicide as atheists have no code to tell them suicide is a sin.

so it just seems you are spouting anti-religous stuff just for the sakle of it.

Rev Hellfire

CDfm wrote: »

so it just seems you are spouting anti-religous stuff just for the sakle of it.

Welcome to the A&A forum

CDfm

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Welcome to the A&A forum

Ty:)

Latchy

CDfm wrote: »

Bollox - you might as well say that because atheists dont believe in God and that as christians suicide is a sin then supporting atheism you are making suicide acceptable.

Where is your evidence.

LMAO .

Evidence? I dont need any evidence .I am not defending myself in a court of law .I am stating what I believe from expierence. From seeing with my own eyes what religion has done to ' some people ' ,consumed them to the point that everything the say is right and everybody who does'nt agree with them wrong. . I know some people who hide behind the facade of being religious ,regular church goers .The assumtion being that they are good people when in reality are the biggest B'stads under the sun .Which Is not anti religion or anti atheist rant .But the person shoving religion down your throat can be just as irritating as the guy spewing on about his atheist beliefs .

CDfm

latchyco wrote: »

LMAO .

Evidence? I dont need any evidence .I am not defending myself in a court of law .I am stating what I believe from expierence. From seeing with my own eyes what religion has done to ' some people ' ,consumed them to the point that everything the say is right and everybody who does'nt agree with them wrong. . I know some people who hide behind the facade of being religious ,regular church goers .

So sucide rates have doubled in Ireland since the 1980s and church attendence has dropped of. Doesnt that say anything to you. The annual suicide figures for young men exceed those killed in road deaths.

Why cant you at least acknowledge that atheism is a silent deadly killer?

gramlab

CDfm wrote: »

So sucide rates have doubled in Ireland since the 1980s and church attendence has dropped of. Doesnt that say anything to you.

It says going to church makes you want to commit suicide??

CDfm

gramlab wrote: »

It says going to church makes you want to commit suicide??

you are ignoring the evidence and the scientific proof of the lethal affects of atheism.

Mickeroo

CDfm wrote: »

you are ignoring the evidence and the scientific proof of the lethal affects of atheism.

Thats ridiculous,it takes more than a belief system or lack thereof to drive sommeone to suicide. Cop on to yourself. Thats not scientific proof you're spouting just your own interpretation of meaningless statistics.

CDfm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Thats ridiculous,it takes more than a belief system or lack thereof to drive sommeone to suicide. Cop on to yourself. Thats not scientific proof you're spouting just your own interpretation of meaningless statistics.

You cant seriously believe that I would make that stuff up.

Mickeroo

CDfm wrote: »

You cant seriously believe that I would make that stuff up.

I have no doubt the statistics are real. It's your interpretation of two unrelated sets of statictics. Church numbers go down, suicide goes up. It's undoubtedly true,but you can also say church numbers have fallen and the amount of people receiving university degrees has gone up. Does that mean everyone who received a proper education stopped going to church?

Húrin

I think that suicide rates increased because of declining community spirit in Ireland generally.

CDfm

Mickeroo wrote: »

I have no doubt the statistics are real. It's your interpretation of two unrelated sets of statictics. Church numbers go down, suicide goes up. It's undoubtedly true,but you can also say church numbers have fallen and the amount of people receiving university degrees has gone up. Does that mean everyone who received a proper education stopped going to church?

I am just commenting on the affect of religous teachings.

There are positives and negatives but atheists often want to gloss over the positives and ignore the consequences of actions as mere collateral damage.

Latchy

CDfm wrote: »

So sucide rates have doubled in Ireland since the 1980s and church attendence has dropped of. Doesnt that say anything to you.The annual suicide figures for young men exceed those killed in road deaths.

You cant equate People comitting suicide with drops in religious attendences unless your saying that once sombody loses their faith in religious leaders ( priests ) or church , suicide is the only option left open to them .The scandals involving the catholic church are probably more reason why church attendences have dropped .I could understand somebody wqanting to comitt suicide if he/she was the victim of sexual abuse involving religious organisations.

Why cant you at least acknowledge that atheism is a silent deadly killer?

If that is the case then more atheists are prone to sucide .Is that what your saying

Valmont

While we are all throwing around correlations, here's mine (plagiarized of course)- As Global warming has increased, so to have the number of pirate attacks in the Indian ocean. Causality? Definitely.

Dades

CDfm wrote: »

Why cant you at least acknowledge that atheism is a silent deadly killer?

Why doesn't your god help those people who lives are so bleak they resort to suicide?

MrPudding

CDfm wrote: »

Where is your evidence.

God told him. I am sure that is good enough evidence for you CD.

Dades wrote: »

Why doesn't your god help those people who lives are so bleak they resort to suicide?

Duh. You aren't allowed to test him. Also, they will receive happiness in heaven.. oh wait, suicide is one of the mortal sins isn't it. Ah well. They are sh1t out of luck.

MrP