Will FF ever get into govt. again?

Sizzler

So FF voters, will you ever vote for FF again in your voting lifetime ?

Yes, we are in the midst of a global recession, one that we probably haven't seen the like of, EVER before and thats a contributory factor for sure....BUT the perpetual scandals and gross mismanagement of the financial industry / public expenditure and general amateurishness of leadership in the country over the last decade on FF'S watch supercedes any such global recessionary epidemic imho.

Without making this into a 'knock Bertie' thread, the fact remains that he was happy to take the plaudits and backslapping from his peers during the boom years without doing anything special or being in anyway prudent or having a grain of foresight.The reality is the lax policies alongside the general economic success of the global economy at the time probably would have meant Ireland would done *OK* with or without Ahern at the helm.

For the football followers amongst you it reminds me of Steve Staunton's first game in charge for Ireland which we won 3-0. He was being hailed as some sort of footballing genius that could make Ireland a force again when in reality he didnt have a clue and was happy to take the plaudits but the result was a fluke and Ireland probably would have won that night with Pat Kenny in charge.

Is this the end of FF as a major political force? I hold my hand up and wil admit to voting them back in, the only thing that stopped me from voting FG last time as Enda Kenny, which I just cant comprehend as Taoiseach, but given the choice then I certainly wouldnt have voted the BIFFO in. If there was a general election next week FF could be decimated if the polls were to be believed.

turgon

This is boards.ie you are posting on. Of course they will.

faceman

I would argue its the death of politics in Ireland in a matter of speaking. We need a form of Politics 2.0. I dont know what it is or who can come up with it.

Personally i think the government should admit defeat and ask for external assistance. Get in consultants/experts from the EU. It would be embarrassing and controversial but you cant have people who have worked in the public sector running the country in a time like this,

The laws should be changed to make corporate mis-doings a great crime. We have seen less than 10 cases of wreckless trading in Ireland since the 60's.

eoin5

The whole party system is pants in ireland. We seem to end up with such misfits heading up our ministerial slots. Maybe a change in the electorial system is in order to get the right people into the right jobs.

Sizzler

turgon wrote: »

This is boards.ie you are posting on. Of course they will.

Whats that got to do with anything

I wouldnt put 1 euro on them getting half the seats back if there was a general election tomorrow.

Yes you might get the likes of Cowen and O'Dea keeping their seats as they are revered and held in some esteem as they are "decent" men in their own constituencies but when the mist clears for the remaining party colleagues....they could be on the backfoot.

thebman

They will because people will still go "sure who else is there".

I hope they won't but they will

I won't vote for them ever unless they go through serious reform.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

ffs, as soon as anyone else gets into power, people will be bitching about them the same way they bitch about FF now. We'll see the exact same hatred a few years down the line only directed towards FG.

tomcosgrave

Until people in general start to learn how the Oireachtas works, how it relates to the Constitution, and until people start to form their own opinions, free from being told how to think by the media who have their own biases and views, then we will never get anywhere. If this is done, it will lead to the ending of something that has been holding us back as a nation for decades - Civil War politics. Nobody cares about the war now - it ended in the 1920's. Yet our political system continues to be defined by it.

In terms of the political machinery of the State, the fundamental problem is our Constitution. It contains some good elements concerning the function of how the country is governed, but it needs to be replaced with a much more modern document.

The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa is a modern constitutional document, dating from 1993. The Constitution of the Federal Republic of Germany is another. Both these documents are huge and detailed. Take a look at them. I am not saying we should copy them - what I am saying is to look at them, look at ours and see how they differ in terms of the level of detail and the level of depth they have compared to ours.

Dannyboy83

Possibly not for a while.

But people are thick.
And Irish people are thick x 2 (all the booze I suspect).

People have short memories.

jmayo

eoin5 wrote: »

The whole party system is pants in ireland. We seem to end up with such misfits heading up our ministerial slots. Maybe a change in the electorial system is in order to get the right people into the right jobs.

No the problem is we get the politicans we vote for or at least some of us vote for them, as a nation we get the ones we deserve .
I love when people say they are all as bad as each other, which is something that FF have managed to get into the heads of people, so that they don't look as bad as they really are.
FG, Lab etc are hung for sins they MIGHT have committed, whereas FF are not made pay for anything they have actually done.

Does it matter if we did have a new party seen as we have those who will vote for local "Soldier of Destiny" candidate just like all their ancestors.
Then you have the ones who vote because the local TD is good for the area, getting things done.
Then you have the ultimate where people vote for someone, becuase he got one over on the system e.g our tax dodging TDs.
These voters fail to realise the system includes themselves :rolleyes:

The Irsh people knew that this crowd were inept, wasteful, arrogant, condescending to public and critisism, lukewarm on ethics and morals.
Yet a lot of paddies voted them in, becuase they just saw themsleves doing alright so why derail the gravy train.

These voters didn't give a cr** that the health service was neglecting and allowing patients to die, that government leader and ex ministers spent more time in tribunals than in Dáil, that the government were wasting billions on pet projects and that they were feathering the nest of their supporters.

Now that they have dicovered the great economy was a sham and that they have been taken for a ride they are getting sanctimonous and want revenge.
Perhpas some people should look in the mirror as to who is at fault.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me :rolleyes:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Pub07

jmayo wrote: »

I love when people say they are all as bad as each other, which is something that FF have managed to get into the heads of people, so that they don't look as bad as they really are.
FG, Lab etc are hung for sins they MIGHT have committed, whereas FF are not made pay for anything they have actually done.

+1

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I

destroyer

Sean_K wrote: »

ffs, as soon as anyone else gets into power, people will be bitching about them the same way they bitch about FF now. We'll see the exact same hatred a few years down the line only directed towards FG.

Thats the whole point though, we are simply not ruthless enough with
our elected reps. If FG are as bad in a few years time vote them out
too, its just not good enough to say the other crowd are as bad.
Our political system is as bad as it is because we keep voting in
the same people regardless of performance. FF supporters are the
biggest culprits in this regard but are not alone.
In reality I would think that less than 10% yhink FF are doing a good job, yet about 30% (at least) will vote for them in the next election

why?

T runner

jmayo wrote: »

Yet a lot of paddies voted them in, becuase they just saw themsleves doing alright so why derail the gravy train.

A small aside. Would you mind not calling Irish people by that name? Calling us "Paddies" is not a remedy for any of our current, past or future woes.
Not having respect for yourself or your family is not a reason for not having respect for others.

Lu Tze

FF will get a minimum of 30% of the Dail at the next general election. We all talk the good talk, but opinion polls don't seem to be worth a damn in this country most fo the time. They were well down before the last election aswell.

thebman

Lu Tze wrote: »

FF will get a minimum of 30% of the Dail at the next general election. We all talk the good talk, but opinion polls don't seem to be worth a damn in this country most fo the time. They were well down before the last election aswell.

That's true but wait until they reduce the dole. Then those people that have time to vote will not be voting for them.

If they go after retired people (which they already did and then turned around on it), they will not vote for them either.

I think they will actually be hurting in the next election. What you have on here is the working class mostly that post that they won't vote for them but then don't vote for anyone so it doesn't have any affect on anything (I know a certain percentage do turn up but you get the idea).

tomcosgrave

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I said nothing whatsoever about length. I did say to look at two particular documents that had depth. The US Constitution is another such document, although, in my view, not as good quality a document.

Muggy Dev

You would think not but when the leader of the labour party walks around with a union card in his pocket while the leader of the opposition carries a comb in his,you would never know.

Lu Tze

thebman wrote: »

That's true but wait until they reduce the dole. Then those people that have time to vote will not be voting for them.

Even though they have the time, i am pretty sure that statiscally they have some of the lowest turn outs during elections (i am speaking generally here, the long term unemployed, lower socio economic status)

turgon

Sizzler wrote: »

Whats that got to do with anything

In Ireland, people just vote the same old option the whole time. Brian Cowen could pull his pants down at every person in Ireland and the old ladies would still hang pictures of him in their rooms.

My nan still has pictures of Ahern and Haughy in her bedroom. Irish people dont seem to care what happens to them. Its depressing.

LostinBlanch

Concentrate on getting them out first and then let's worry about them getting back in. Of course they still haven't fixed the register in order to stop potential fraud which is a major concern.

On a slightly different note: could you imagine the vote they would get if they were actually using Cullens evoting machines?? :eek:

tomcosgrave

Muggy Dev wrote: »

You would think not but when the leader of the labour party walks around with a union card in his pocket while the leader of the opposition carries a comb in his,you would never know.

It's telling that you make a politically charged swipe at one opposition party leader and merely take the piss out of the leader of the other. So what is worse? A political party (FF) beholden to a plethora of corrupt financiers and businessmen who have brought the country to its knees, or a political party (Labour) that was founded by the trade union movement and in receipt of a relatively small amount of money from a minority of trade unions?

You do know, don't you, that Labour is affiliated to the vast minority of the forty or so unions in Ireland - and most of the members of those unions have not voted for Labour in the past - they have voted Fianna Fáíl.

Unfortunately, your invective is empty.

What will happen is that they won't make any real cuts and wont raise taxes. We'll go into the next election pissed off with the shape of the country and the in-your-face-lol corruption of FF.

FG/Lab will get in, make the many necessary cuts, raise taxes and FF will come out and say "Do you not remember how good it was when we were in power?" and every moron in the this country will go and vote for them. The economy will pick back up and FF will reap the benefits of the tough measures brought in by FG/Lab.

I would honestly bet my house on this happening. Mainly because it happened the last time too, or does nobody remember? I can also guarantee that half the people here calling for FF's blood, will be voting for them too.


Sigh..

Muggy Dev

tomcosgrave wrote: »

Unfortunately, your invective is empty.

Labour are anti-levy and are urging the government to return to the social partners.Their only constituency is the public sector unions.Given the public mood,the likelihood is that the next government will get elected on the promise that it does´nt go into coalition with Labour.They drew the line in the sand,not me.

ednwireland

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

What will happen is that they won't make any real cuts and wont raise taxes. We'll go into the next election pissed off with the shape of the country and the in-your-face-lol corruption of FF.


Sigh..

honestly if this happens we'll be under the IMF, but you know what FF just dont have the b*lls for it they never have they've bottled every decision that didnt involve spending money. so IMF it is. the Commebnts from yer man at the EU yesterday werent promising

jmayo

T runner wrote: »

A small aside. Would you mind not calling Irish people by that name? Calling us "Paddies" is not a remedy for any of our current, past or future woes.
Not having respect for yourself or your family is not a reason for not having respect for others.

Oh all right then how about "thick micks" :rolleyes:
FFS, we have a nation that wants to be seen as the drunks of the world, always up for the craic, so we play up to the images that the name "paddy" was often give to as a term of derision.
BTW most of my forebearers were labelled with it, how about yours ?
Political correctness :rolleyes:

BTW if you read some of my posts I say people in this country have absolutely no repsect for anything, including the other people living in this country.
How else would they have voted in a shower of chancers like FF whose policies have contributed to the actual deaths of this country's old, sick and infirmed.

Maybe that is something you should be more concerned about, rather than what label is used for the citizens of this country who don't give jack sh** about the way this state is run and what it has become.

This country became a nation of people with the mindset of "I'm alright so f*** the rest of ye" and most people know it too well.

Rant over, off to buy meself a plastic tricolour hammer and leprechaun hat

lostexpectation

its pisses me off how much the gov are passing the blame 'to the regulator' , the regualtor is hte government and the you only have a regulator as good as the government wants.

Sand

Yes, of course Fianna Fail will get back into government at some point in the future. There is far too many stupid people in Ireland that can be easily bought for that not to be the case. All it takes is for the floating vote to forget their corruption and ineptitude a few years down the line.

They will however lose the next election, hence their avoidance of it at all costs.

tomcosgrave

Muggy Dev wrote: »

Labour are anti-levy and are urging the government to return to the social
partners.

Labour are not anti-levy, per se. However, they are anti this particular levy. They are urging a return to the social partners in order to put together a fairer levy, one that will be more equitable for all.

Muggy Dev wrote: »

Their only constituency is the public sector unions.

No, their only constituency are the citizens of this country, no matter where they work. By the way, if you want to talk about Labour and their union constituency you should at least understand the nature of those unions - only one union affiliated to Labour is a truly public sector union - the CPSU. The rest of the unions affiliated to Labour have more members in the private sector, than in the public sector, particularly in the case of SIPTU.

Muggy Dev wrote: »

Given the public mood,the likelihood is that the next government will get elected on the promise that it does´nt go into coalition with Labour.They drew the line in the sand,not me.

Either you despise Labour so much you have decided to put your head in the sand, or else you didn't see the TNS/MRBI or RedC polls recently. Either way, your claim is untrue. Labour will decide the formation of the next government. Although, if FF and FG decided to end the politics of the Civil War and govern together, that would be fine with me.

P. Breathnach

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

...But people are thick.
And Irish people are thick x 2 (all the booze I suspect)...

Speak for yourself.

nuttz

jmayo wrote: »

Oh all right then how about "thick micks" :rolleyes:
FFS, we have a nation that wants to be seen as the drunks of the world, always up for the craic, so we play up to the images that the name "paddy" was often give to as a term of derision.
BTW most of my forebearers were labelled with it, how about yours ?
Political correctness :rolleyes:

BTW if you read some of my posts I say people in this country have absolutely no repsect for anything, including the other people living in this country.
How else would they have voted in a shower of chancers like FF whose policies have contributed to the actual deaths of this country's old, sick and infirmed.

Maybe that is something you should be more concerned about, rather than what label is used for the citizens of this country who don't give jack sh** about the way this state is run and what it has become.

This country became a nation of people with the mindset of "I'm alright so f*** the rest of ye" and most people know it too well.

Rant over, off to buy meself a plastic tricolour hammer and leprechaun hat

If you resent your fellow citizens so much why don't you do us all a favour and emigrate.

jmayo

nuttz wrote: »

If you resent your fellow citizens so much why don't you do us all a favour and emigrate.

Ah I see your pedaling the old FF solution to our problems again.

I supposed it worked for Dev for a good many years.

Here I have an even better idea, why don't you and that sorry bunch of ff TDs along with the rest of your party faithful sling your hook and do the Irish nation a favour.

nuttz

jmayo wrote: »

Ah I see your pedaling the old FF solution to our problems again.

I supposed it worked for Dev for a good many years.

Here I have an even better idea, why don't you and that sorry bunch of ff TDs along with the rest of your party faithful sling your hook and do the Irish nation a favour.

I didn't pedal anything, I didn't mention any party. I am proud of my country and don't need to listen to little ****s like yourself insulting the people of the country.

nuttz

nuttz wrote: »

I didn't pedal anything, I didn't mention any party. I am proud of my country and don't need to listen to little ****s like yourself insulting the people of the country.

I can understand someone being proud of a country, even though I personally find it incredibly stupid. However, what exactly right now is there to be proud of about?

eoin5

jmayo wrote: »

No the problem is we get the politicans we vote for or at least some of us vote for them, as a nation we get the ones we deserve .
I love when people say they are all as bad as each other, which is something that FF have managed to get into the heads of people, so that they don't look as bad as they really are.
FG, Lab etc are hung for sins they MIGHT have committed, whereas FF are not made pay for anything they have actually done.

Does it matter if we did have a new party seen as we have those who will vote for local "Soldier of Destiny" candidate just like all their ancestors.
Then you have the ones who vote because the local TD is good for the area, getting things done.
Then you have the ultimate where people vote for someone, becuase he got one over on the system e.g our tax dodging TDs.
These voters fail to realise the system includes themselves :rolleyes:

The Irsh people knew that this crowd were inept, wasteful, arrogant, condescending to public and critisism, lukewarm on ethics and morals.
Yet a lot of paddies voted them in, becuase they just saw themsleves doing alright so why derail the gravy train.

These voters didn't give a cr** that the health service was neglecting and allowing patients to die, that government leader and ex ministers spent more time in tribunals than in Dáil, that the government were wasting billions on pet projects and that they were feathering the nest of their supporters.

Now that they have dicovered the great economy was a sham and that they have been taken for a ride they are getting sanctimonous and want revenge.
Perhpas some people should look in the mirror as to who is at fault.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me :rolleyes:

I dont think you got what I was getting at. Isnt there a way that we can get more qualified and better suited people into our ministerial slots without having to choose from a partys locally elected politicians. One example I can think of is Noel Dempsey, hes been the minister for four different things now, cant we have more qualified people making the big decisions?

nesf

nuttz wrote: »

I didn't pedal anything, I didn't mention any party. I am proud of my country and don't need to listen to little ****s like yourself insulting the people of the country.

Do not insult people on this forum. Do it again and it is a ban.

Daithinski

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

And Irish people are thick x 2 (all the booze I suspect).

It could be the booze but...

I suspect that over 150 years of emigration from Ireland, has created a brain drain.

The intelligent ones (mostly) went abroad thus leaving a majority of thick ones behind. :P

The population of Ireland is now 51% thickos.

These thickos have a genetic predisposition that makes them believe politicians.

How else could you explain FF getting voted in time and time again

Dannyboy83

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

Oh dear....

Dannyboy83

Daithinski wrote: »

It could be the booze but...

I suspect that over 150 years of emigration from Ireland, has created a brain drain.

The intelligent ones (mostly) went abroad thus leaving a majority of thick ones behind. :P

The population of Ireland is now 51% thickos.

These thickos have a genetic predisposition that makes them believe politicians.

How else could you explain FF getting voted in time and time again

I'll just say this:
Until 2008, I was making more money as a nightclub bouncer than I was as a qualified and experienced computer science graduate with 2 extra languages.

My former landlord was telling me he was making twice my annual salary per month during 2003-2006. He did a 2 year course in the college of comm.

And then they wonder why people want to be the next X-Factor but don't study maths or science:rolleyes:..................


Regardless, my point still stands, Irish people don't care until you hit them in the pocket. When the crisis passes, the dodos will go back to sleep and the rugby and the booze, and FF will have their day again.

I think it was NESF who posted "winning politics isn't about the actions you take, but the promises you make".
I think the Green party have taken the Litmus test with regard to that one.

There was a fabulous program on the BBC recently about the Great Depression, there was a very old chap who had just started off working in the stock market in the states when the depression kicked off.
His conclusion was that from that depression to this one, people have learned nothing and forgotten everything.