Ordinance Survey Maps for Planning Application

littlecbear

Hi

I am putting through an application for planning soon and my architect is charging €100 plus 21.5% VAT for getting ordinance survey maps. I now see that I can order directly and get for €60 inc postage.

Should I go ahead and order them myself or is this something that is generally left to architects to do?

I dont want to go ordering only to find that its not as simple as it appeared.



Any help much appreciated

muffler

Dont see why you cant get your own so long as you inform your architect that you are doing this.

pseudo-tech

Is the planning pack required A4 or A3? Are they supplying 6 copies of both maps? If not does your Architect have an Ordnance Survey License? If not They need 6 of each map, if they do that are probably charging you for the use of the license which they have to pay for!

If you are looking to save €40.00, you may find that you will have to pay an additional charge for any of the reasons given above.

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Is the planning pack required A4 or A3? Are they supplying 6 copies of both maps? If not does your Architect have an Ordnance Survey License? If not They need 6 of each map, if they do that are probably charging you for the use of the license which they have to pay for!

If you are looking to save €40.00, you may find that you will have to pay an additional charge for any of the reasons given above.

The use of a planning pack doesnt require a licence.

Jimbo

Your arcihitect may be ordering the more expensive vector planning pack for use on AutoCAD which makes drawing site layouts a little easier. AFAIK they are ~ €90 + vat.

In the grand scheme of things, I can't see how it's worth the hassle to order them yourself to save €40 when you could order the wrong map.
Let your architect take the responsibility

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

The use of a planning pack doesnt require a licence.

Yes it does if the agen only supplies you with one copy of the 6"- 1mile map as my agent do.

Also as mentioned above by Jimbo78 it could be a digital copy in order to prepare a land transfer map later. An additional map with the planning pack for this purpose with cost an additional €30.00, so no savings there in afraid!

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Yes it does if the agen only supplies you with one copy of the 6"- 1mile map as my agent do.

Also as mentioned above by Jimbo78 it could be a digital copy in order to prepare a land transfer map later. An additional map with the planning pack for this purpose with cost an additional €30.00, so no savings there in afraid!

You see you inserted the word "if". Im taking the OPs request at face value in that he wants maps - that would be maps as we all know them - printed on paper. If a planning pack is bought and used then a licence is not required. The OP wanted a simple answer to a simple question and i really dont see the need to complicate things.

Let him discuss it with his architect if he is not happy with the replies here.

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

You see you inserted the word "if". Im taking the OPs request at face value in that he wants maps - that would be maps as we all know them - printed on paper. If a planning pack is bought and used then a licence is not required. The OP wanted a simple answer to a simple question and i really dont see the need to complicate things.

Let him discuss it with his architect if he is not happy with the replies here.

Yes agreed. Maybe they should have discussed it with their Architect in the first instance! They could have misunderstood the reasoning behind the need for the maps. I always allow for preparing a land transfer map later. Good practice.

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I always allow for preparing a land transfer map later. Good practice.

Always a good idea.

Supertech

That works fine in counties that are not gone to a digital platform lads.

In those where the PRA mapping is digital, the map from your palnning pack doesn't meet the grade - you must supply data on a Land Registry Compliant Map.

The difference - ITM coordinates at the corners rather than just a centre point, and the Title LAND REGISTRY COMPLIANT MAP stamped on top - otherwise exactly the same as your Planning Pack Map.

Rough Cost for A3 Land Reg Compliant Map €40.

Jimbo

Supertech wrote: »

That works fine in counties that are not gone to a digital platform lads.

In those where the PRA mapping is digital, the map from your palnning pack doesn't meet the grade - you must supply data on a Land Registry Compliant Map.

The difference - ITM coordinates at the corners rather than just a centre point, and the Title LAND REGISTRY COMPLIANT MAP stamped on top - otherwise exactly the same as your Planning Pack Map.

Rough Cost for A3 Land Reg Compliant Map €40.

I didn't know that was the case.

Ever since my county went digital, I have only used Land Registry Complant maps but I was unaware they wont take regular planning packs anymore.


Is it not a little unessesary when the planning packs have ITM coords of the centre of the map?

Supertech

Is it not a little unessesary when the planning packs have ITM coords of the centre of the map?

I agree - given that the coordinate system seems to be the issue, it would seem to make more sense to use the ITM Projection for the Planning Maps, and do way with the need for Land Registry Compliant Maps altogether.

littlecbear

Wow thanks for all the replies- quite a debate going on. We are on a tight budget so every penny counts. When I asked the architect if I could order myself he said id have to take a half day off to go up to town and get the maps and then go and get 6 copies made (hmmmm) - thus I assume he would be ordering the paper version.

Have to double check with council whether they need 6 and 1 or 6 and 6 copies of each map and whether they need a4 or a3. Even then there will be a slight saving. Just feel a bit hard done by considering I queried it with him.

We are submitting a change of plan rather then new application, dunno if that makes a difference.

littlecbear

Also as mentioned above by Jimbo78 it could be a digital copy in order to prepare a land transfer map later. An additional map with the planning pack for this purpose with cost an additional €30.00, so no savings there in afraid![/quote]


There will be no transferring of land. The submission is to change the hosue to a smaller and more affordable one.

pseudo-tech

littlecbear wrote: »

Wow thanks for all the replies- quite a debate going on. We are on a tight budget so every penny counts. When I asked the architect if I could order myself he said id have to take a half day off to go up to town and get the maps and then go and get 6 copies made (hmmmm) - thus I assume he would be ordering the paper version.

Have to double check with council whether they need 6 and 1 or 6 and 6 copies of each map and whether they need a4 or a3. Even then there will be a slight saving. Just feel a bit hard done by considering I queried it with him.

We are submitting a change of plan rather then new application, dunno if that makes a difference.

Six copies of all drawings/ maps required for a valid application.

If your Architect needs to make copies, he obviously have a license for doing same, so he may be building that into his price. Also if they prepared the original application for you and have a license they can use the copies of the original maps legitimatley!!

However, don't take a shortsighted view. Your Architect will save you money in the long run.

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

However, don't take a shortsighted view. Your Architect will save you money in the long run.

I wouldnt agree with that. Its a fairly sweeping statement and Im sure not all architects/techs/engineers are immune from "adding on" a little.

Personally I send my clients off to get their own planning pack but thats just me.

archtech

you can buy the maps online in pdf format from osi. it works out slightly more expensive if you don't have an OSI copyright licence, as you have to buy the map twice (only 3 copies permitted under the download copyright licence) however it does mean you have the maps within a few minutes and don't have to travel or wait for postage.

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

I wouldnt agree with that. Its a fairly sweeping statement and Im sure not all architects/techs/engineers are immune from "adding on" a little.

Personally I send my clients off to get their own planning pack but thats just me.

I'm not sure about that. Architectural Services and pricing structures are varied, you send your client of to get the pack obviously others designers do it for their client. Which, is a better service? The answer is subjective.

I have also had experiences with clients who took an extremely shortsighted view (not the OP) where they retain you for planning and not for construction drawings because they perceive that there is a saving in it. However, from experience the client normally gets caught at the other end by the contractor. Also the quality of service provided by different professionals is so varied its frightening. Therefore, a client cannot compare the prices of two professionals!

muffler

Our local council are now agents for OSi so its quite handy to get the maps. Up to last year what I did was give the clients the opportunity of getting their maps from OSi directly or from one of the agents or pay me in advance and I would order them.

What I did was just scan an old map of the area and email it down to the agents in Mayo with a credit card number and I usually had the order in the post the following day.

littlecbear

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Six copies of all drawings/ maps required for a valid application.

[FONT=&quot]checked on the planning application checklist and it says [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]the follwoing is required:
"6 copies of location map of sufficient size to permit identification of the site"
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]futher on it says

"6 Copies of site layout[/FONT]"- This will be drawn by Architect, right?

No mention of required site overview map needed at all.

pseudo-tech

littlecbear wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]checked on the planning application checklist and it says [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]the follwoing is required:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"6 copies of location map of sufficient size to permit identification of the site"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]futher on it says [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"6 Copies of site layout[/FONT]"- This will be drawn by Architect, right?

No mention of required site overview map needed at all.

Dependent on the Local Authority and the location of the dwelling. If the dwelling is is a rural area and the 1:2500 don't show where the site is, the 6" will certainly be needed.

archtech

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Dependent on the Local Authority and the location of the dwelling. If the dwelling is is a rural area and the 1:2500 don't show where the site is, the 6" will certainly be needed.

No requirement for the provision of a 6" map under the planning and development regulations 2000 as amended.

Only supply a 6" now where i need to indicate a large landholding or location of family members and even at that most local authorities will accept copies of the 1:50000 discovery series maps, subject of course to copyright

Jimbo

archtech wrote: »

No requirement for the provision of a 6" map under the planning and development regulations 2000 as amended.

Only supply a 6" now where i need to indicate a large landholding or location of family members and even at that most local authorities will accept copies of the 1:50000 discovery series maps, subject of course to copyright

Cork County Council require a 6" map (6 copies) with all planning applications.
I think some other planning authorities do too.

littlecbear

Well then, it sounds like there is no issue with me telling the architect I will order directly and pay 50% of what he quoted!

pseudo-tech

littlecbear wrote: »

Well then, it sounds like there is no issue with me telling the architect I will order directly and pay 50% of what he quoted!

Be ready to pay for the land transfer map in the future! Best of luck

littlecbear

Why/When would I need the land transfer map

archtech

jimbo78 wrote: »

Cork County Council require a 6" map (6 copies) with all planning applications.
I think some other planning authorities do too.

They may require but they shouldn't/can't invalidate a planning application for not including them. Providing a grid reference to Irish transverse Mercator, as recommended/required on the "standard" planning application form should be sufficient for the local authority to accurately locate the site.

topcatcbr

muffler wrote: »

I wouldnt agree with that. Its a fairly sweeping statement and Im sure not all architects/techs/engineers are immune from "adding on" a little.

Personally I send my clients off to get their own planning pack but thats just me.

Ditto

I used to get them myself but found that most clients dont mind doing a bit of running around. OP if you want to get them do. I dont see any prob with this at all. Get an extra for land transfer.

The architect may have been charging a little for his time. I dont think this would be unreasonable.
Like i said i usually get client to get maps so its not an issue for me but if i did have to get them i would include this in my fee.

archtech

littlecbear wrote: »

Why/When would I need the land transfer map

If one is buying the site it may be necessary, as the site needs to be registered with land registry. (the vender may of course have done this but more often than not its isn't finalise until the hose is complete)

Often too if one has a larger landholding, rather than providing the entire land holding as security with the bank, the house and site would be registered as a separate entity, tax purposes too would be another reason for registering the house and site seperately in a large landholding.

littlecbear

got a definite reply from council

"It is sufficient to send in one 6"- 1 mile map, but you would need to send in 6 copies of the 1:2500 scale map also"

littlecbear

archtech wrote: »

If one is buying the site it may be necessary, as the site needs to be registered with land registry. (the vender may of course have done this but more often than not its isn't finalise until the hose is complete)

Often too if one has a larger landholding, rather than providing the entire land holding as security with the bank, the house and site would be registered as a separate entity, tax purposes too would be another reason for registering the house and site seperately in a large landholding.

All of these are not applicable in my case. Although now Im wishing I was the owner of a "large landholding"!!!

muffler

littlecbear wrote: »

got a definite reply from council

"It is sufficient to send in one 6"- 1 mile map, but you would need to send in 6 copies of the 1:2500 scale map also"

Now you're sucking diesel

muffler

Just for reference lads - Section 22 (2). (b) of the 2006 regs states:

6 copies of a location map of sufficient size and containing details of features in the vicinity such as to permit the identification of the site to which the application relates, to a scale (which shall be identified thereon) of not less than 1:1000 in built up areas and 1:2500 in all other areas, or such other scale as may be agreed with the planning authority prior to the submission of the application, in any particular case and marked so as to identify clearly:

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

Now you're sucking diesel

Boards do not recommend that anyone sucks diesel:D

Scorpio Girl

i got my own maps and it cost me €103. can't remember how many but i know i ended up using them all.

pseudo-tech

Scorpio Girl wrote: »

i got my own maps and it cost me €103. can't remember how many but i know i ended up using them all.

Good example. Maybe the OP should have some faith in their Agent.