"Decorative stones" outside house to deter parking on grass

CreepingDeath

Hi,

just wondering does anyone knows the legality of putting a couple of "decorative" rocks on the grass outside my house.
Nothing excessive, just one on either side of my driveway to stop people mounting the kerb and turning it into a mud track.

If someone mounted the kerb and hit it the rock, could they claim for damages ? I reckon not, as I assume that mounting the kerb is illegal.

Other side of the coin is that technically, those patches of grass/land are not mine.

cheers,
CD

Quint

I would assume it's illegal. IF someone was on a motorbike and hit them it would cause them serious damage. Or if someone had to swerve to avoid something and hit them.
But I can understand the frustation of cars and trucks driving in the grass, especially when it's wet

Super-Rush

This is a pain in the ass when driving in the countryside where there is barely enough room for one car. If i do damage to my car because of one of these stones, its going through the front window of the house.

Padraig Mor

Illegal AFAIK. Why would you want to litter public land?

Tech3

In sligo across from the IT on the N16 there was so many cars parking on the grass during the wrc which is planted on the pavement. As it was raining there is no grass to be seen anymore left in all mud. so they are after putting down 3 bars at the start and at the end of the grass so that noone parks there for now on!! :cool:

Guy:Incognito

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Illegal AFAIK. Why would you want to litter public land?

For the same reason people want to destroy said public land with their cars?

Cookie_Monster

Who owns the land?

If it's the council I suggest you ask them. I wouldn't say there is a huge issue with this, you see it everywhere. They have to be painted white so as obvious though? Most seem to be.

You could put the stones there and claim you have no idea how they got there and since it's not your land you at not responsible for removing them...
"fell off the back of a truck":D

mumhaabu

A mate of mine had this problem during the boom as he had quite a wide space outside his wall by the road. It became a pitstop for everything and then a meeting and parking spot where builders would congregate in the morning before taking off in crewcabs for the day leaving their various cars behind. We were talking about it one day and I suggested an ingenius idea, about 4 packets of screws and nails were scattered around the space and we used a yard brush to mash them unto the gravel. All parking stopped after about 3 weeks and several punctures later. One fecker went into the house to complain and got promptly f'd out of it by my mate.

It works, except it snagged his mother in-law in the middle of it and he had to change the spare for her.

Berty

Rocks are now litter. Im confused.

The council put down rocks to stop people illegaly camping in places and you are only protecting their grass by right. I know somebody in a council house who is getting the council to build her a fence because people keep driving on her grass. Not parking but actually driving. Damn council estate tenants. :rolleyes:

Get a big rock and some burly blokes and some black and yellow paint(separate tins preferably) and work away.

chorus

How about putting something down other than rocks, maybe a few small posts( slim ) connected together with some rope. They would break if someone hit them.

maidhc

I don't see why a successful claim couldn't be brought by a driver who damaged their car from one of these stones.

There might also be a planning implication.

-Chris-

I was parking on our front verge, mounting the verge on the neighbour's half and finishing up on mine. It wasn't doing the grass any favours, but I said "sod it, it's only grass" (pun intended ).

One day I came home to find he had 3 decorative rocks on his verge. I immediately stopped driving on his part of the verge and won't do it again.

Put the rocks down! They don't have to be big (so you don't hurt any motorbikers), they're merely there as an unsaid request to "please keep off the grass".

BillyGoatGruff

How about seeing if you can plant a small tree or shrub.

signman12

why not stick out a garden gnome instead of a rock

CreepingDeath

Cookie_Monster wrote:

You could put the stones there and claim you have no idea how they got there

Yep, sounds good to me... "they were there when I bought the house".

maidhc wrote: »

I don't see why a successful claim couldn't be brought by a driver who damaged their car from one of these stones.

There might also be a planning implication.

Well the rock would be nothing heavier than what one man could lift.
I'm not talking about "boulders".

Anyone parking there at the moment are already breaking the law.
You can't mount the kerb and park half on/half off the road.

Basically it's the height of ignorance.
It's damaging the "cosmetic frontage" of someones house.

If someone knocked on my door and said their car was damaged, I'd ask them to call the guards and explain how their car managed to leave the road and mount the kerb like that.

Ah sure I'm not going to act on this immediately... but if I'm wandering around B & Q in the next few months and see a few decent rocks in the garden section I may do it. Safety really isn't an issue if you saw the layout of our cul-de-sac.

cheers for each one of the varied opinions !

raptorman

I thought people owned the property right up to the road verge?

Rowley Birkin QC

I'd imagine the planning authority might have something to say about it too.

Planning Act 2000 wrote:

3.—(1) In this Act, “development” means, except where the context otherwise requires, the carrying out of any works on, in, over or under land or the making of any material change in the use of any structures or other land.

galwaytt

raptorman wrote: »

I thought people owned the property right up to the road verge?

No, not necessarily.

OP - it's illegal. In most cases it is a condition of planning permission for your house that the space outside be accessible for a vehicle to park. If you interfere with that, you're in breach of Planning Law.

Separately, if you put something there that would actually interfere with the safe operation of a vehicle in a (legal) space, you could also be liable either malicious damage to the vehicle and/or damages - including a claim to the person. Ditto for the screws/nails method. If child cycles and falls and impales on a screw/nail - you're in deep ****.

There's a bunch of these near me and I reported them to the Co Co this - week - leaving a double line of blocks as a deterrent ? FFS !!

mumhaabu

Well my mates is certainly his property and owns within 10feet of the road and left another 30 or 40 as the road is eventually due to be widened and why have his stone wall demolished by the council only to be replaced with timber fencing?

He has a sign "private property no parking allowed" yet they continued to park there. So they have no legal recourse as they were trespassing to begin with. People in Ireland have absolutely no respect for private property and generally tend to treat everybody else's property with disrespect.

I owned an apartment very close to a Train station in the commuter belt and very adequate parking is provided with about 3 spaces per apartment which is sort of overkill as alot of the apartments are empty and some of the occupants don't drive. Anyway things got so bad with those spaces being used by the public that we had a meeting of the Estate management committee and had new bigger signs erected and eventually had to get in Private clampers to stop it:mad:. It was like shooting fish in a barrel the first few weeks until eventually it died down. My tenents had threatened to pull out due to not being able to park in their own space. I subsequently sold the apartment and the guy I sold it to says things are still pretty much the same and that the clampers were making a fortune.

Private property is king and the rights of the owner come first before any trespasser or any commuter.

Matt Simis

chorus wrote: »

How about putting something down other than rocks, maybe a few small posts( slim ) connected together with some rope. They would break if someone hit them.

This is a safer and more sensible suggestion than rocks. Sends the message the home owner cares without the danger and ill effects of heavy solid objects that may not even be seen in the dark.

mumhaabu wrote: »

We were talking about it one day and I suggested an ingenius idea, about 4 packets of screws and nails were scattered around the space and we used a yard brush to mash them unto the gravel. All parking stopped after about 3 weeks and several punctures later. One fecker went into the house to complain and got promptly f'd out of it by my mate.

This is madness. What if they drove off on a puncture and it directly or indirectly caused a crash? And people were injured or killed. You two genius's would likely be in jail.
I cannot fathom how you can smugly post about wreckless damage to other peoples property, all for the sake of not-in-my-front-yardness. Do you have that little foresight to see what could have happened?

And yeah, I (thankfully) live out in the sticks too, so I see both sides of the problem.

kingtut

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Other side of the coin is that technically, those patches of grass/land are not mine.

technically?? umm it is either your grass/land or it isn't

If it is yours it is perfectly legal.
If it is not yours it is illegal.

Simple.

Berty

*Ahem

The council wont give a SH*T if somebody complains about somebody else putting 3 rocks in a grass verge someplace somewhere.

Rowley Birkin QC

Berty wrote: »

*Ahem

The council wont give a SH*T if somebody complains about somebody else putting 3 rocks in a grass verge someplace somewhere.

You would be surprised. Might take some time but in any decent local authority it would be checked out.

CreepingDeath

galwaytt wrote: »

OP - it's illegal. In most cases it is a condition of planning permission for your house that the space outside be accessible for a vehicle to park. If you interfere with that, you're in breach of Planning Law.

Maybe I haven't explained the situation clearly.
I've absolutely no problem with people parking outside my house. (I've 2-3 spaces in my driveway)
I've no problem with people parking on the concrete kerb outside my house.
It's just when they go that little bit further and park on the grass which then becomes a mud track/trench and the grass dies.

So I would not be interfering with any legal parking space.
It is a kerbed grass verge.

From the Rules of the Road wrote:

"Park close to and parallel with the kerb or edge of the road except at any
location where perpendicular or angled parking bays are marked out on
the surface of the road."

So they're not parking legally if they park half on / half off the road.

Anyways, no great urgency or I was just sounding out the idea to start with.
See if anyone else had any good or bad experiences of it.

pa990

If you put rocks etc there, knowing that it may cause damage.. you are responsible for such damage.

It would end up in a civil courts

Shocking

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Maybe I haven't explained the situation clearly.
I've absolutely no problem with people parking outside my house. (I've 2-3 spaces in my driveway)
I've no problem with people parking on the concrete kerb outside my house.
It's just when they go that little bit further and park on the grass which then becomes a mud track/trench and the grass dies.

So I would not be interfering with any legal parking space.
It is a kerbed grass verge.



So they're not parking legally if they park half on / half off the road.

Anyways, no great urgency or I was just sounding out the idea to start with.
See if anyone else had any good or bad experiences of it.

Plant some small trees or plants as a deterrent. If you live in an estate then you cannot do much more that that.

Tea drinker

pa990 wrote: »

If you put rocks etc there, knowing that it may cause damage.. you are responsible for such damage.

It would end up in a civil courts

I have some sympathy for a driver that damages their car in such fashion, but should they really be driving on the road at all in that case? If they have such poor control they could easily run over a child on that grass and that would be a far more regrettable incident than "oh the poor car"

GalwayKiefer

Shocking wrote: »

Plant some small trees or plants as a deterrent.

My dad did this up in his estate outside his house (same problem). The Galway corpo (same everywhere else I assume) have a small amount set aside each year for every estate that the resident's committee can apply for to plant trees/shrubs/flowers etc. Concrete bollards, poles, poles with chains connecting them are all no-no's but if you're willing to do the dirty work and plant the bushes or whatever your local authority will pay for them.

The illegal parking has stopped and the area looks nicer too

-Chris-

I'm just thinking of something like this. Surely this can't offend anyone and gets the job done?

McSpud

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm just thinking of something like this. Surely this can't offend anyone and gets the job done?

The motto in the this country is do whatever you want. I have at suggestions it is illegal or some planning issues. People build property without planning & apply for retention so can't see the authorities noticing a few small rocks. There is also 0% chance the guards will intervene. Anyway who could ever prove you put the rocks there?

CreepingDeath

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm just thinking of something like this. Surely this can't offend anyone and gets the job done?

Yep, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of.
The parking equivalent of a speed bump, not likely to rip the bottom out of a fuel tank or cause any malicious damage. ( Okay, maybe to a modded lowered suspension atrosity, but that would deserve it. )

Seth Brundle

bigkev49 wrote: »

I'd imagine the planning authority might have something to say about it too.

You are leaving a stone there, not building a house!

Matt Simis wrote: »

This is madness. What if they drove off on a puncture and it directly or indirectly caused a crash? And people were injured or killed. You two genius's would likely be in jail.

If someone drove off with a puncture, then they have nobody to blame but themselves!

kingtut wrote: »

technically?? umm it is either your grass/land or it isn't

If it is yours it is perfectly legal.
If it is not yours it is illegal.

Simple.

In housing estates and many urban areas, the grass strip belongs to the local authority and the upkeep is left to the resident. In rural areas, you would need to check the land registry records!

CreepingDeath wrote: »

So they're not parking legally if they park half on / half off the road.

If the half off the road is on a path then they cannot park there AFAIK!

pa990 wrote: »

If you put rocks etc there, knowing that it may cause damage.. you are responsible for such damage.

It would end up in a civil courts

One of the first questions asked to the claimant would be "did you see the rocks there?" To answer that they will either have to claim that they did (and therefore willingly drove onto them) or they didn't see them (they were driving too fast for the conditions).

galwaytt

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm just thinking of something like this. Surely this can't offend anyone and gets the job done?

in that case in your pic, I'd wager that's Corpo property and you can't do that. Call the wardens etc and get offending cars ticketed - but that's their job, not yours. You can't just dump stuff (illegally) on Corpo property.

And, the day you come home and you've visitors in the drive, and have to park there yourself.............don't whinge if YOU get a ticket, either !

galwaytt

kbannon wrote: »

One of the first questions asked to the claimant would be "did you see the rocks there?" To answer that they will either have to claim that they did (and therefore willingly drove onto them) or they didn't see them (they were driving too fast for the conditions).

no. If the rocks are placed maliciously, unmarked, the Judge will more likely ask who said you could take traffic enforcement into your own hands, actually........that's what Garda and Wardens are for.........

yellowcurl

I have to say that one of things I have always hated when I'm driving home (to the sticks) to visit the family on college breaks is when the road is so narrow that only one car can fit along it, and then of course another car comes along and definitely won't let you pass safely so you have to push your car up beside the wall of a house in order to prevent yourself from being flattened, and then discover that your wheel has been bent because some sod put a large rock there to make sure their grass/stony extravaganza outside their house doesn't get ruined.

True story. They were fined for maliciously placing obstacles on a piece of land which they did not own. Please don't copy their idiocy, it's dangerous and silly. If you must block up the verge outside your fence/wall, use shrubbery, because then if there is an absolute emergency and someone does need to swerve quickly out of the way there won't be half as much damage done.

Lord Nikon

i would box them in with my car, thats if there is a tree on the verge. They might ask you to move it, but say your busy...

MarkR

In the countryside, I'd put those little bendy plastic ones with the reflectors on them. If you're in a developed area call the parking warden or local station if it's quiet as it's not legal to park on footpaths. Just say you can't get your buggy along the path. €40 parking fine will soon make parking cheaper elsewhere...

furtzy

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm just thinking of something like this. Surely this can't offend anyone and gets the job done?

Everyone around my area has this same set up. They've been there for years and are even outside a house owned by a local Garda.

These together with a couple of shrubs should do the job and brighten up the area

ArphaRima

Personally I'd just park on the road fully or with my wheels on the kerb itself. Id just move the stones if I couldnt....
Then again the only time it's an issue is if I'm at a house party or something like that off-peak. I amn't a daily commuter.

I've no time for all of this "not in front of my house" sh1te.
I'd be calling the Gardai and suing (sp?) for damages if anything were to happen to my vehicle too. Puncturing tyres is absolutely below the belt IMHO.

-Chris-

By parking on the verge you're damaging "their" grass and making their home not look as nice as it should.
If your grass is regularly parked on and you're in any way houseproud, everytime you come home you'll be disappointed to see the muddy grass.


My neighbour put small rocks as a polite "don't park here" request. I respect that.

I would consider anyone who moves the rocks and parks there to be pretty ignorant.

I'd consider anyone who drove into/onto those rocks and caused damage to their car as pretty dumb.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to spread and hide screws and nails in a grass verge on a public road deserves a good shaking.


There may be legal liability issues, and there may be public littering issues, those need to be the focus of this thread.
"I'll park where I want and I'll move the rocks and park outside someone else's house because I want to and you can't stop me" is a less constructive attitude...

ArphaRima

"I'll park where I want and I'll move the rocks and park outside someone else's house because I want to and you can't stop me" is a less constructive attitude...

To be quite fair, I dont see that somebody has the right to stop me parking legally. If I need the parking space, and I see that somebody has denied me it, I'll rectify the obstruction. If something subsequently happened to my car like tyre deflation etc. I would be calling the gardai. That's what I say. Constructive attitudes have nothing to do with it. If the choice is to park or go home; I'll park. Like I said, I'm not a commuter, I'm talking about arriving at a house party in a housing estate.

CreepingDeath

fluffer wrote: »

I've no time for all of this "not in front of my house" sh1te.
I'd be calling the Gardai and suing (sp?) for damages if anything were to happen to my vehicle too. Puncturing tyres is absolutely below the belt IMHO.

Punturing tyres by sprinking nails/screws on the grass is too extreme.

But a couple of rocks, well rounded ones with no sharp edges, would be a simple obsticle which is no more dangerous than a common speed ramp. A bit of a bump that people will tend to avoid when attempting to illegally & ignorantly park on the grass.

fluffer wrote: »

To be quite fair, I dont see that somebody has the right to stop me parking legally.

Nobody said that in this thread.
I have said I've no problems with people parking on the road or even on the concrete kerb.

smash

Surely if it's grass outside your house then it's not your property, it belongs to the council...

ArphaRima

Nobody said that in this thread.

But isnt that the entire point of this thread? "To deter parking on grass". I know most people here dont care about the grass. It is really to stop people parking outside their home.

Matt Simis

kbannon wrote: »

If someone drove off with a puncture, then they have nobody to blame but themselves!

Ive had several screw punctures, they slowly deflate as the screw is embedded and threaded in the hole. I havent seen the issue until hours later when the tyre is visiably flat.

And you are way off, they totally have someone to blame, the giant idiot that purposely hid screws in garden sweepings and planted them around the their tyres and parking space!
How can you defend that behavior!? If this was on the newspaper after some horrible blowout at speed, people here would be the first to criticize the idiot that willingly caused the damage. Someone so blase about it they actually have the gall to brag about their deeds on a public forum.

Would people here defend them if he went out and key'ed their vehicles then ran off to hide in the house with his friends? Thats not even close to issues via dangers caused by damaging tyres.

CreepingDeath

fluffer wrote: »

I know most people here I dont care about the grass.

Fixed your post.

fluffer wrote: »

It is really to stop people parking outside their home.

I don't mind people parking outside my home.
No problems with people parking normally and legally, 4 wheels on the road or even on the concrete kerb.
For me, it's the ruining the grass bit and turning it into a mud track that I'm trying to prevent. It's plain ignorance.

The grass verge/pathways are part of the cosmetic appearance of the cul-de-sac.

mumhaabu

A person has to the right to do whatever they wish on Private Property and this includes spreading nails and screws around. Now however a person does not have the right to park or trespass on someone elses Private Property without their permission. And if a person happens to get punctured while trespassing illegaly then sorry but that is their prerogative and might teach them a lesson to not do it again.

The entire area I was talking about was since tarmac'd and similar problems are happening again. Although one complete stranger went to the door and asked could he park there and my friend said sure no problem and thanked him for asking. The same fella since came to my friend at Christmas with a bottle of Whiskey etc. as a thank you present.

Asking is different but the lemmings who just plonk their vehicles whereever they choose are a different matter.

raptorman

Its illeagle to set traps for tresspassers:rolleyes:

NewApproach

To those who say if someone damages their car on one of these rocks and looks for compo from you...

What is the difference between that and someone crashing into your house and looking for compo because there was a house in the way and not a ploughed field?

The road is for cars, not the grass verge. Surely its their fault as they shouldn't be on the verge?

Victor_M

I can't believe this has gone on for 51 posts, Jesus Christ! OP, put the rocks on the grass verge! people can still park on the road. End Of.

If some A-hole came up to me and pedantically questioned the legality of said rocks on verge they'd be told to F-off and have the door slammed in their face.

Don't even entertain the PC crowd! All they want to do is rant.

Cionád

Decorative stones is one thing, but to spread nails all over the place is malicious and dangerous.

Imagine a walker stepping off the road as cars pass, steps on one of your (possibly rusty) nails. Nice one. :rolleyes:

Land mines would work well, you cant see them either.