Is this normal practice?

Top Dog

Got done for speeding this afternoon. Nothing abnormal about that I know. Not arguing the fact that I was caught, and not looking to be slated for it either.

The reason behind my thread though, was that I had long held the belief that the Gardai wouldn't typically pull someone for speeding when they were doing an overtaking manouvre. Now obviously this belief was proven wrong today, I'm just wondering if I was alone in having thought this up till now?

I know its the case that I was going that bit too fast for his liking for him to accept that I was doing it simply while overtaking, as he said that normally he'd overlook anyone going as far as 100km/h while overtaking in an 80 zone (I was doing 115 when clocked).

The Garda said it to me that I was doing a pretty reasonable lick of speed when he targeted me, and I answered honestly by saying that when I overtake I try to do it as fast and as safe as possible so as to limit my time exposed to danger. He asked me then if I thought that when overtaking that speed limits could be ignored, which I must admit I had no answer for. And of course it wouldn't be much of a defence in court either.

So what do others think? When overtaking do you put foot to the floor to do it as fast as possible before returning to the posted limit? Do you actually watch your speed while overtaking?

vw4life

what speed were you doing before overtaking and what was the speed limit

Anan1

I tend to overtake at full tilt too. How fast was the car you were overtaking going? Was it a bit of a tight maneouvre or did you have loads of room?

Turner

In my younger years in AGS we used to be sent down the village (by the super) to do speed checks in the 30mph zone.

As people exited the village on a straight stretch and still in the 30mph zone alot would overtake traffic doing the 30mph and get up to 50 or 60mph during the overtake.

Thing was the national school was at the end of the 30mph zone and the reason we were there was because the local headmaster had written a letter to the Super requesting we carry out the speed checks.

Once we explained to people there usually was no agro.

As for overtaking once it is 100% safe with no risk to oncoming traffic and not before one of these or any similar sign even with a broken continous white line i wouldnt have a problem with the speed.

During my advanced driving course i was told to complete the manouvre as quickly as possible, but then again speed limits didnt apply to me

Top Dog

Before overtaking I was doing less than 70km/h (hence wanting to pass the slower moving traffic). Speed limit 80km/h. Passed 2 cars that were constantly jumping on the brakes, and the slow van that was holding them up. Once past I was back down to 80 (yes really this time). And I was actually pulled over when the Garda caught up with me (he had to turn around as he had been facing the opposite direction to the one I was travelling), as my mobile rang.

Oh and there was plenty of space/time for the manouvre. Nice long straight but lower limit due to being non-primary route. Could clearly see for half a mile ahead.

Harcrid

Top Dog wrote: »

Before overtaking I was doing less than 70km/h (hence wanting to pass the slower moving traffic). Speed limit 80km/h. Passed 2 cars that were constantly jumping on the brakes, and the slow van that was holding them up. Once past I was back down to 80 (yes really this time). And I was actually pulled over when the Garda caught up with me (he had to turn around as he had been facing the opposite direction to the one I was travelling), as my mobile rang.

Oh and there was plenty of space/time for the manouvre. Nice long straight but lower limit due to being non-primary route. Could clearly see for half a mile ahead.

How did he know what speed you were doing if he travelling the opposite direction to you?

Top Dog

He wasn't travelling. Like I said - he was facing. He was parked in a sort of lay-by facing the oncoming traffic with his gun

Harcrid

Top Dog wrote: »

He wasn't travelling. Like I said - he was facing. He was parked in a sort of lay-by facing the oncoming traffic with his gun

Ah I see, that makes more sense! :-)

Personally I always put the foot down when overtaking, within reason of course, as I find it safer to get by quickly. I often find myself up to 20k's over the limit at the end of the maneouvre but just ease off back down the limit afterwards. But it's still speeding at the end of the day.

Esel

I might go up to 20% over the limit when overtaking, but 44% was taking the piss, imo.

unkel

I generally overtake as quickly as I can and regularly break the speed limit doing this. If I got caught I'd take the fine and the points and I'd speed again overtaking the next time.

Anan1

unkel wrote: »

I generally overtake as quickly as I can and regularly break the speed limit doing this. If I got caught I'd take the fine and the points and I'd speed again overtaking the next time.

Me too, I suppose.

Mena

unkel wrote: »

I generally overtake as quickly as I can and regularly break the speed limit doing this. If I got caught I'd take the fine and the points and I'd speed again overtaking the next time.

Pretty much this for me as well.

Top Dog

esel wrote: »

I might go up to 20% over the limit when overtaking, but 44% was taking the piss, imo.

Well the Garda who caught me did say he lets up to 100 slide alright, so probably in keeping with your opinion on it.

unkel wrote: »

I generally overtake as quickly as I can and regularly break the speed limit doing this. If I got caught I'd take the fine and the points and I'd speed again overtaking the next time.

Well I have been caught, and I will accept the points/fine. At the end of the day I broke the limit and I'm not going to argue that fact.

Up till now I thought it was reasonably acceptable behaviour where safe. You pull out, floor it, and merge back in as soon as possible. If you happen to have a quick enough car then you will hit a higher speed, but at the same time you'll also be back in the correct lane sooner and back down to the legal limit. Now I'm sitting here wondering if I'm going to be paying more attention to my speedo than the road for fear of going that bit too far over the limit in my effort to reduce the amount of time I'm on the opposite side of the road. As a result of which I wouldn't be concentrating 100% on what I'm doing. It just leaves me feeling that little bit uneasy.

Mena

Top Dog wrote: »

As a result of which I wouldn't be concentrating 100% on what I'm doing. It just leaves me feeling that little bit uneasy.

To be fair, it takes a micro second to glance at your speedo, hardly going to be dangerous during the manoeuvre unless it was sketchy to start with.

This being said, I'd still floor it while undertaking a legal overtaking manoeuvre.

cashmni1

i agree, and i would always drop a gear and floor it when having to pass. Then again I have always driven Diesels (in this country) and generally needed the speed. However, driving a fast car is a different story. You have to watch your speed alright.
To answer your question OP, no, I always knew you could be done for speeding while overtaking.
Unfortunately for you, the guard was on duty and there is nothing he could do really.
If you were back at the speed limit when finished the maneuver, it was probably too late at that stage and the guard had already clocked you and the damage was done.
Sorry for your troubles TD.

Capt'n Midnight

IIRC in California you are have to go over the speed limit for 1/4 mile to get done to allow for overtaking

then again it was a documentary on TV about HPV's so may not be true and we ain't over there.

kermitpwee

Top Dog wrote: »

Before overtaking I was doing less than 70km/h (hence wanting to pass the slower moving traffic). Speed limit 80km/h. Passed 2 cars that were constantly jumping on the brakes, and the slow van that was holding them up.

From this I am taking it that you passed out three vehicles in the one manoeurve. If I am correct in making this assumption combined with the fact that you were 35km/h over the speed limit then it was going to be very difficult to let you off.
One of my mates did the same thing, the garda told him if he hadn't gone to pass the 3rd car out he would have let him of on the speeding charge (he had slowed down afterwards)but he felt taking 3 cars was excessive.

Sorry to hear about your points, i can't admit to been any angel myself.

jimmycrackcorm

The OH got done for speeding when overtaking. The Guard said he could appreciate she was clocked whilst overtaking but still she was over the limit as we passed the speed check.

Rowley Birkin QC

I overtake at full tilt aswell, it's the only way to go.

Nothing worse than seeing someone tipping along at 57mph in 5th gear behind an artic truck and seeing the right indicator coming on with no apparent change in velocity. :mad::mad:

leerdun46

i asked my friend who is a garda about this subject a while back,i thought you could floor it aswell but aperently its up to the garda himself to decide if you were just goin too far over the limit.sympathies OP i do the same myself

Tech3

I would usually floor it to overtake myself but for a c doar in fronting 70kph I wouldnt need to be hitting over 100km/hr to overtake it tbh.

Esel

As I see it, if you feel you have to 'floor it' to overtake, then you don't know how to overtake properly. 'Get past fast' is a good motto, but knowing how to do that correctly and safely is a skill. You should not be close to the vehicle you plan to overtake; rather you should hang back until a safe opportunity presents itself. By being in this position, you are in a much better position to see the road ahead and judge the situation. When you have decided to overtake you accelerate, closing the gap between yourself and the vehicle in question. As you approach the overtaking point, you should already have achieved a sufficient speed advantage to complete the manoeuvre quickly and safely.

However if, at that point, conditions have changed such that the way is not clear to overtake in safety, you can ease off the throttle, possibly braking slightly if necessary, and re-open the gap between yourself and the vehicle in front. The idea is to be in the danger zone for as short a time as possible, without compromising safety. It is definitely not necessary to be travelling at a much higher speed than the vehicle you are passing.

I recommend a book called Roadcraft to anyone who is interested in studying and learning more. It is the manual used by the various police forces in the UK, and has been refined over the years to the point where it is 'state of the art'.

kermitpwee

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The OH got done for speeding when overtaking. The Guard said he could appreciate she was clocked whilst overtaking but still she was over the limit as we passed the speed check.

#
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I know the op was done for speeding but my point is that the op may have not been done if the op only passed out one car. My point is that passing out three cars and been over the limit is taking the piss.

P.s the op still has to say for sure whether they passed out three vehivles in the one go.

Owen

esel wrote: »

I recommend a book called Roadcraft to anyone who is interested in studying and learning more. It is the manual used by the various police forces in the UK, and has been refined over the years to the point where it is 'state of the art'.

That book is excellent, and I've read it cover to cover, and had a training course with the Gards on my bike, but I would still overtake at full tilt no matter what the circumstances. Once you begin an overtaking manouver, you're in the dangerzone, and your objective is to get back into a safe position and speed as soon and as carefully as you can.

OP, as many have said here, they regularly do the same thing. It's just unfortunate that you were caught.

Top Dog

kermitpwee wrote: »

P.s the op still has to say for sure whether they passed out three vehivles in the one go.

I did pass 3 in one go. 2 that were dancing on the brakes constantly but without the sense to overtake, and the one at the front that was causing the low speed in the first place.

Due to the nature of the erratic driving of the other 2 it wasn't a very safe or sensible idea to try one at a time as the gaps between the vehicles were constantly changing.

Considering they were all travelling at less than 70km/h I don't think I was taking the piss to pass all of them in one safe manouvre, and the Garda didn't seem to bothered about the amount of cars I overtook either. To him I had simply exceeded the limit by that bit too much for him to ignore it and let it slide. He never once told me it was a stupid stunt, dangerous or otherwise.

At least I know I'm not alone in thinking/acting the way I do when overtaking. Just happened to be unlucky on this occasion so once the notification arrives through the door it'll be paid and done with.

stealthyspeeder

bigkev49 wrote: »

I overtake at full tilt aswell, it's the only way to go.

Nothing worse than seeing someone tipping along at 57mph in 5th gear behind an artic truck and seeing the right indicator coming on with no apparent change in velocity. :mad::mad:

+1
This is so dangerous, especially when they start off from about 2 cm behind the truck! I would reckon a lot of guards would let you away with it if it was common sense safe (i.e clear road, no schools, good weather etc) but some are more pedantic than others!

OP, to get up to that speed (I assume relatively quickly?) during the overtake, your car must have a bit of power, what car is it?

In terms of overtaking, I would floor it if I was overtaking a car with a clear stretch of road in front of me to be in danger for as little time as possible. If I was over taking more than one car I would not go as flat out because if something unexpected happened on the wrong side of the road I would want to be able to slot back into the left hand side without excessive braking and cutting into another drivers braking distance. (this really gets on my nerves when I could overtake 4 cars individually and safely but they all bunch together because they are going a bit slower than normal making it impossible or suicidal to attempt a long overtaking manouvere!)

Top Dog

MK3 Golf GTI. Not the quickest thing out there, but nippy enough between 60-120km/h as proved yesterday

aquascrotum

Can't imagine it's different in RoI but in the UK (N. Ireland) the emphasis is on spending as little time as possible in the oncoming lane - i.e. boot to the board. (Highway Code 163 - move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in).

In fairness overtaking 1 / 2 cars doing 10 or 15mph under the speed limit will generally mean your only slightly over the limit by the time you're past them, assuming you're not driving a rocketship.

The argument would be made that overtaking 3 vehicles may constitute dangerous driving / driving without due care or something similar, but that would very much depend on the road in terms of your clear line of sight, junctions ahead etc etc, in which case you would be done for that but not for the speeding offence.

This happened a friend of mine in NI in very similar circumstances to the OP - 1 slow vehicle, 2 cars reluctant to overtake ahead. The police argued that the fact the 2 cars refusing to overtake was not sufficient excuse and that he should just sit back and accept his lot and wait for the dickheads in front to spread out so they could be overtaken 1 or 2 at a time (rather than endanger road users etc etc).

Voodoomelon

I was done for speeding overtaking on the M1, was clocked at 149kmph overtaking one of those double container trucks. Again, fair cop, but when I just said "I was overtaking a truck" I was met with "there was no truck" in a condescending manner. Fair enough.

Motorway in this country is a different ballgame though, they Gardaí probably assume that anyone speeding in the overtaking lane is just booting it and not actually overtaking and I wouldn't blame them going by the driving on them.

John R

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I was done for speeding overtaking on the M1, was clocked at 149kmph overtaking one of those double container trucks. Again, fair cop, but when I just said "I was overtaking a truck" I was met with "there was no truck" in a condescending manner. Fair enough.

Motorway in this country is a different ballgame though, they Gardaí probably assume that anyone speeding in the overtaking lane is just booting it and not actually overtaking and I wouldn't blame them going by the driving on them.

there is no reason why it is necessary to speed (certainly not 30kph over the limit) to overtake on a motorway/DC. the overtaking lane is there to allow safe overtaking of slower moving vehicles without having to resort to risky manouveres.

On a two-lane road I would fully agree with the principal of get past ASAP even if it means going considerably over the limit, the wrong side of the road is not somewhere to hang about looking at the scenery.

justsomebloke

I remember this being on the ray darcy show years ago and they had the guards on and basically said you aren't allowed break the speed limit on a road even if it is to overtake and as you were doing 35km/h above the speed limit chances are he was going to get you

Farls

I would also make sure and pass out using say 80-90% of what the vehicle I'm driving is capable of, keeping that bit left over for them useless shower of b******s that put the foot down when they see somebody over taking them!! :mad:

I have to say though if I'm overtaking somebody I haven't a notion what my speedometer is reading as I'm pre-occupied changing gears and watching where I'm going to/coming from. Once I'm back in comfortably then I'll correct my speed

Damomayo

unkel wrote: »

I generally overtake as quickly as I can and regularly break the speed limit doing this. If I got caught I'd take the fine and the points and I'd speed again overtaking the next time.

me too .... its safer imho

Voodoomelon

John R wrote: »

there is no reason why it is necessary to speed (certainly not 30kph over the limit) to overtake on a motorway/DC. the overtaking lane is there to allow safe overtaking of slower moving vehicles without having to resort to risky manouveres.

On a two-lane road I would fully agree with the principal of get past ASAP even if it means going considerably over the limit, the wrong side of the road is not somewhere to hang about looking at the scenery.

Indeed, I wouldn't argue with that, however i wouldn't call 29kmph over the limit on a motorway "risky".