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Was Jesus a real person?

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    #32
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    My interest in the intricacies of biblical scripture is minimal, so I've no idea if the parts posted here are relevant to the thread.

    Fanny, if you think they aren't ignore then stevencarrwork. stevencarrwork, if you think they are, maybe someone else will talk to you but stop bleating for a response from Fanny Cradock if there's already a thread in Christianity about it.


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    #33
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Dades wrote: »
    My interest in the intricacies of biblical scripture is minimal, so I've no idea if the parts posted here are relevant to the thread.

    Read Romans 10 and see what you think. :pac:

    bush_salute.jpg

    Cheers, Dades. I'll drop out of this now and lie in wait...


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    #34
    Saruman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    I was under the impression that the Romans documented the crucifiction of Jesus so there is documentation that has nothing to do with the Bible. I have never seen it but that is what i have heard.

    Also its not like he was made up by Christians, he is documented in at least two other religions. Muslims and Jews both acknowledge he existed. Obviously not proof but at the end of the day, do you care?

    I do not care as i do not believe any more so whether he existed or not does not have any affect on me at all.


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    #35
    stevencarrwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭stevencarrwork


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    Romans 10 as nothing to do with this thread. You just hopped in with something that you clearly feel is of pressing importance. If you really want to discuss a certain passage then take it up in the Pauline thread you have already stared.

    I already pointed out why Romans 10 is incredibly relevant to this very thread.It shows whether or not Paul thought Jesus was a human being known to exist.

    According to Paul, nobody had ever heard of Jesus, apart from Christian preachers preaching about him.

    This is the most amazing attempt by FC to get around the Biblical evidence - simply declare it off topic.

    Then you don't have to answer!


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    #36
    stevencarrwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭stevencarrwork


    Saruman wrote: »
    I was under the impression that the Romans documented the crucifiction of Jesus so there is documentation that has nothing to do with the Bible. I have never seen it but that is what i have heard.


    You heard wrongly.

    Unless you mean Tacitus, who never mentions any 'Jesus'.

    He does mention a Christ, but no Roman sources would have claimed that Christ had been crucified, just as no pagan sources would ever claim that the Prophet of God left Mecca to travel to Medina.

    So Tacitus must almost certainly have got his information from Christians of the time, or from his friend Pliny the Younger, who did get information by interrogating Christians.


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    #37
    darjeeling
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭darjeeling


    Saruman wrote: »
    I was under the impression that the Romans documented the crucifiction of Jesus so there is documentation that has nothing to do with the Bible. I have never seen it but that is what i have heard.

    Apt.


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    #38
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    stevencarrwork wrote: »

    This is the most amazing attempt by FC to get around the Biblical evidence - simply declare it off topic.

    Its nothing to do with the topic.


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    #39
    stevencarrwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭stevencarrwork


    Nodin wrote: »
    Its nothing to do with the topic.

    SO the fact that Paul declares that nobody had heard of Jesus, apart from the preaching of Christians about him, has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus of Nazareth existed?


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    #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    stevencarrwork wrote: »
    SO the fact that Paul declares that nobody had heard of Jesus, apart from the preaching of Christians about him, has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus of Nazareth existed?

    Start another thread.


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    #41
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    These "there may have been a chap called Jesus" answers always confuse me. It's like asking if 'Jack' as in 'Jack and the beanstalk' existed, and answering yes by saying that there was certainly a man once called jack who grew beans.

    Surely to accept that "Jesus was a real person" you have to accept that the major events described in the bible happened.

    Otherwise, it seems to me, it's a bit like saying yea Jack existed, just not that magic bean stuff and the giant.


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    #42
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,170 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    pH wrote: »
    These "there may have been a chap called Jesus" answers always confuse me. It's like asking if 'Jack' as in 'Jack and the beanstalk' existed, and answering yes by saying that there was certainly a man once called jack who grew beans.

    Surely to accept that "Jesus was a real person" you have to accept that the major events described in the bible happened.

    Otherwise, it seems to me, it's a bit like saying yea Jack existed, just not that magic bean stuff and the giant.


    Not necessarily, myths can be based on fact but the actual events can be exaggerated over time, like stories of Queen Meabh or the High Kings of Tara.....


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    #43
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    fitz0 wrote: »
    I'm doubtful of whether there was a man called Jesus. Until Im shown evidence thats not a bible or any sort of holly scripture Ill continue doubting.

    Well this guy Josephus historian and roman citizen did so.Is he good enough or do you have some objection here too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

    What are your views on Julius Caesar


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    #44
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    CDfm wrote: »
    Well this guy Josephus historian and roman citizen did so.Is he good enough or do you have some objection here too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

    What are your views on Julius Caesar
    Im not sure what you're getting at here. What did he do? Doubt the existence of Jesus? If you are referring to the Testimonium then its authenticity is doubted. Were its authenticity confirmed then the case for there being an actual man called Jesus would be much stronger. Like Ive said before it doesn't matter anyway whether he was real or not.

    And where does Julius Caesar come into this?


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    #45
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    fitz0 wrote: »
    Im not sure what you're getting at here. What did he do? Dout the existence of Jesus? And where does Julius Caesar come into this?

    You asked was the existance of Jesus confirmed in any other source and I am pointing you in this direction. I am hardly going to look it up for you.

    If you decide to reject Josephus as a source you are just arguing gratuitiously.

    So if you dont believe Jesus existed -you might as well disbelieve in Julius Caesar too -its just logical.


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    #46
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    CDfm wrote: »
    You asked was the existance of Jesus confirmed in any other source and I am pointing you in this direction. I am hardly going to look it up for you.

    If you decide to reject Josephus as a source you are just arguing gratuitiously.

    So if you dont believe Jesus existed -you might as well disbelieve in Julius Caesar too -its just logical.

    Ah you replied while I was editing :o

    I do not reject Josephus just question the authenticity of that particular passage as do many scholars.

    There is much more unbiased evidence for Julius Caeser than for Jesus.


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    #47
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    fitz0 wrote: »
    Ah you replied while I was editing :o

    I do not reject Josephus just question the authenticity of that particular passage as do many scholars.

    There is much more unbiased evidence for Julius Caeser than for Jesus.

    In fairness Julius Caesar had a bigger prestige job and wasnt in the carpentry or preaching business in Galilee.


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