Casein protein- worth swapping whey for at night?

shamblertine

is it worth changing from whey to casein protein at night or would the difference be minimal?

rubadub

The price difference is not minimal!

Some just add milk to normal whey at night which slows absorption and so mimics the effect.

EileenG

Casein is much slower digesting than whey, so it's better as a meal replacement, where whey is better immediately after lifting. If you are going to take protein at night, then casein is a better bet. Mind you, I think cottage cheese is excellent.

Khannie

+1 on the cottage cheese front. Cheap in lidls too (59c a tub).

Hanley

rubadub wrote: »

The price difference is not minimal!

Some just add milk to normal whey at night which slows absorption and so mimics the effect.

+1

50g of whey and a pint of supermilk's your only man before bed!

cozmik

Practical uses of whey and casein

The science unequivocally shows that the digesting rate of protein is an important regulator of protein balance. Whey provides a quick burst of protein synthesis while casein makes an ideal protein supplement to sustain long periods of an anabolic environment for muscle growth. Based on these different characteristics, whey and casein can be used alone and in combination to exploit their unique biologic effects.

For example, whey protein can be very effective before and after a workout and first thing in the morning. But since the benefits of whey after exercise are short-lived, you should consume a meal containing protein 20-60 minutes after drinking a post-workout whey protein shake. In one study, 30 grams of whey protein were provided in a sequence of 13 small meals given each 20 minutes.1 This was found to be far superior for muscle anabolism compared to a single meal of whey or casein.

Alternatively, a combination of whey and casein (20 grams) could be consumed one hour before and immediately after exercise for a sustained benefit on protein balance. Casein is a perfect protein for a shake before bed because it promotes a sustained anti-catabolic environment while you sleep.

http://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=787

Richie..Galway

I am taking casein before bed as this is the longest time you will be without protein so the slow absorbtion works best, i train at 9.15 am and hit the whey straight after.

the drifter

Khannie wrote: »

+1 on the cottage cheese front. Cheap in lidls too (59c a tub).

and aldi!!!

also freakishly nice mixed with peanut butter....

connundrum

the drifter wrote: »

and aldi!!!

also freakishly nice mixed with peanut butter....

How did you even... never mind

I was gonna ask this question so might as well tag it on here.

I've switched up my workouts as I've decided to go headlong into Sprint Tri's and Duathlons.

Most nights I'd have 50g pure whey with 500ml milk and find that my muscle ache is reduced unbelievably the next morning /day as compared to what I felt like 2 or 3 years ago (pre-my whey discovery)

Am I ok to continue in this fashion? I ask as very few Tri or Running magazines promote whey.. or protein in any form from what I can see??

Is there something better to be doing?

Khannie

I'd say head to the supplements sticky. First thought is that 50g of whey + the protein in milk is too much in one go.

Magic Eight Ball

+ whatever on the cottage cheese.
500g before bed does the trick for me.

I get the lidl and aldi brands but I prefer the tesco brand the best (more creamy) + 100g more and only 95c.

billyhead

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

+ whatever on the cottage cheese.
500g before bed does the trick for me.

I get the lidl and aldi brands but I prefer the tesco brand the best (more creamy) + 100g more and only 95c.

How much casein should you relaly take before bed in terms of grams. I usually take 35gs. Is this enough to build muscle? I am on a bulk as well by the way

digme

the drifter wrote: »

and aldi!!!

also freakishly nice mixed with peanut butter....

totally dude awesome

Armedocr

I use casein only. The aminos in casein and whey are absorbed by your body at the same time the only difference is with casein you are getting a steady trickle of aminos for 4-5 hours instead of a huge dump of them in an hour or two with whey.

There is a big thread over on ironaddicts.com stating why he things whey sucks and I've got to agree.

Hanley

Armedocr wrote: »

The aminos in casein and whey are absorbed by your body at the same time the only difference is with casein you are getting a steady trickle of aminos for 4-5 hours instead of a huge dump of them in an hour or two with whey.

Explain that.. If you're taking the same quantity of both, how can they be absorbed at the same rate, but one's absorbed over 4-5 hours and the other over 1-2?

Richie..Galway

Armedocr wrote: »

I use casein only. The aminos in casein and whey are absorbed by your body at the same time the only difference is with casein you are getting a steady trickle of aminos for 4-5 hours instead of a huge dump of them in an hour or two with whey.

There is a big thread over on ironaddicts.com stating why he things whey sucks and I've got to agree.

thats why i suppose you should be eating protein every 2-3 hours, if you take casein you would need to eat less frequently yes? i think a good mixture of both is all thats needed.

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

Explain that.. If you're taking the same quantity of both, how can they be absorbed at the same rate, but one's absorbed over 4-5 hours and the other over 1-2?

I read through that thread over on ironaddicts. The guy says that the amino's hit your bloodstream at the same time just not at the same rate. It's like turning on two taps at the same time, one slowly trickling (casein) and one going fast (whey). They're both still on.

It's an interesting idea. Mostly I never have whey on its own anyway (mostly I use it in those pancakes in the morning tbh) but I'm somewhat convinced by the logic.

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

I read through that thread over on ironaddicts. The guy says that the amino's hit your bloodstream at the same time just not at the same rate. It's like turning on two taps at the same time, one slowly trickling (casein) and one going fast (whey). They're both still on.

As in you take 50g of each and...
-50g of whey's hitting you at a rate of 25g per hour or .4g per minute (say)
-50g of casein hits at a rate of 10g per hour or .16g per minute (say)

If that's the case, isn't that what everyone's always said about caesin and the poster just muddled the waters with poor wording?

Khannie

Well, there's a further (small) differentiation which is what I think has confused the issue. If I ingest casein and you ingest whey we will both have some amino acids in our system within the same amount of time. It may have been perceived that whey's faster rate of total absorption might lead to it hitting the bloodstream faster from the time of ingestion. The poster is saying that this isn't the case.

I'm probably not wording it great myself but I think you get the picture.

Armedocr

Hey guys lol ye get the picture of what I was trying to say. For some reason I was having a hard time trying to explain the concept.

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

Well, there's a further (small) differentiation which is what I think has confused the issue. If I ingest casein and you ingest whey we will both have some amino acids in our system within the same amount of time. It may have been perceived that whey's faster rate of total absorption might lead to it hitting the bloodstream faster from the time of ingestion. The poster is saying that this isn't the case.

I'm probably not wording it great myself but I think you get the picture.

I'm gonna try and simplify it down further because I'm pretty sure we're saying the same thing....

Whey is absorbed quickly after ingestion, within a 1-2 hour period

Caesin is absorbed more slowely, over a 4-5 hour period but a certain quantity of it is initally absorbed over a 1-2 period as well, just a smaller amount than that of whey?

Parsley

the english language is too complicated to convey the ridiculously simple concept i'm pretty sure yer both talking about, from different angles. does anyone here speak maths?? :pac:

:edit: I'll have a stab...

Whey - 50g absorbed over 2 hours. 25g per hour. 25/60 = .42g absorbed per minute. every minute over the 2 hours you're absorbing .42 grams.

Casein - 50g absorbed over 5 hours. 10g per hour. 10/60 = .17g absorbed per minute. every minute over the 5 hours you're absorbing .17 grams.

Different rates, but they both start at the same time. After the 1st minute, you'll either have .42g of whey absorbed or .17g of casein absorbed. bingo bango.

note: not experimental data, just an example to explain the concept.

Khannie

We're all on the same page.

Today I bought a lot of cottage cheese (10 tubs! :eek:).

TommyKnocker

Khannie wrote: »

We're all on the same page.

Today I bought a lot of cottage cheese (10 tubs! :eek:).

LOL. I go through 8 x 225g tubs a week myself. Use EileenG recipe and make a mousse like thing. Swapped out yogurts from my diet and replaced it with this. Mmmmmmmm:)


M

Boss_eye

Ya Gotta Try Nutrition X's ZMA Pudding, great slow release formula before going to bed, tastes mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :P

Esse85

Unless your looking to compete, whey and milk will be fine or alternatively CC.

No point in getting the casien unless your loaded or a pro bodybuilder, the above are more than adequate.

Khannie

Boss_eye wrote: »

Ya Gotta Try Nutrition X's ZMA Pudding, great slow release formula before going to bed, tastes mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :P

I've had this. Pretty tasty gear alright. Not mad about the idea of having the ZMA mixed in with that much calcium though.

EileenG

The Vitamin Shops in Aungier Street and Moore Street have "Night Protein" which is casein and which mixes to fairly decent pudding. I sometimes carry some with me to eat as dessert if everyone else is pigging out on profiteroles or something tempting.