Anyone gotten a bigger than usual esb bill?

Susannahmia

A couple of different friends of mine have been recently complaining that they have gotten huge estimated esb bills.

One friend in particular pays on average of 120 euro but was charged 450 even though they hadn't been there all Christmas. They rang esb about five or six times before they would state that the bill was estimated and agreed to cancel it and read the meter.

The strange thing is I have heard several people complaining that they were overcharged by a lot. Is it just a coincidence or is there something going on with esb? I know that charges have gone up recently and Christmas has to be taken into account but it still seems ridiculous and unfair for people that are already finding times a little tough.

Cabaal

costs have gone up, read this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055473511

Already covered by numerous threads

Sleipnir

Do people not get those little cards saying "we came to read the meter but you were out"?
I do and it has a number on it so you can call in your meter reading so you don't get an estimated bill. It they underestimate for several months (or years) you can end up being hit with a huge bill once they do get an accurate reading.

Oh, you'll be pleased to know where the extra is going to. Average ESB worker earns €76,000 and the average worker in Poolbeg earns €125,000!
And they're about to get a 7% bonus payment too!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/esb-risks-new-storm-over-7pc-pay-bonuses--for-senior-staff-1639914.html

Sleipnir

Sleipnir wrote: »

Do people not get those little cards saying "we came to read the meter but you were out"?

I've never seen one of those, didn't even know they did that.

Sleipnir

hellboy99 wrote: »

I've never seen one of those, didn't even know they did that.

I thought everyone got one if they can't read the meter. Nobody's in my house during the day so they can never get it. I got one yesterday for the gas too and called in the meter reading.

doolox

I have said this before on other threads if you have real power you can command real wages. This recent 3% rise by the ESB wages is proof of this.While the average worker has to survive on 30k they can double that by being the Man Who Can Pull the Plug and using that political power.
I's love to be in that position.
What is really needed is a tough regulatory system to encourage competition and give them something to be afraid of, like what happens to other workers.
Same applies to doctors and consultants who can ask what they will for treatment, the more worried the patient the more they will pay.
Those in non-essential sectors of employment, who can easily be replaced, haven't a hope of commanding the same wage.

Wishbone Ash

hellboy99 wrote: »

I've never seen one of those, didn't even know they did that.

They usually do it when the meter is inside the premises. If your meter is outside, you won't get a card.

(I got one onetime saying that my parked vehicle prevented the meter box from being accessed).

Sleipnir

You can submit your meter reading online also. You just need your account and MPRN number and the meter reading. You can see your bills etc also.

Highsider

doolox wrote: »

I have said this before on other threads if you have real power you can command real wages. This recent 3% rise by the ESB wages is proof of this.While the average worker has to survive on 30k they can double that by being the Man Who Can Pull the Plug and using that political power.
I's love to be in that position.
What is really needed is a tough regulatory system to encourage competition and give them something to be afraid of, like what happens to other workers.
Same applies to doctors and consultants who can ask what they will for treatment, the more worried the patient the more they will pay.
Those in non-essential sectors of employment, who can easily be replaced, haven't a hope of commanding the same wage.

Jesus. Wish i could be an "average" worker and pull down 30k a year...Yes for the record i've noticed my ESB and Gas bills shoot up to almost double the amount i was paying this time last year. i've been told even the guys who go door to door to read your meter earn 60k+ a year...:mad:

Arciphel

Only a complete cynic would suggest it had something to do with the fact that energy prices are going to fall in the short term - when you buy units of electricity now for 10% more than what they'll cost in two months time due to an overestimated bill, it's money in the bank for the ESB!

Sam Kade

My last bill was estimated and was double the amount of my previous bill. My meter is inside but I don't get a card as the meter reader only calls about 3 times a year.

dudara

They rang esb about five or six times before they would state that the bill was estimated and agreed to cancel it and read the meter

You can read your meter yourself and submit it online, no need to call the ESB and/or get someone sent out to read it.

Do people not get those little cards saying "we came to read the meter but you were out"?

TBH, I haven't seen one of those cards in donkey's years. The onus has shifted to the customer to make sure that their bills are correct.

Everytime I get a bill, I get the meter key and I go outside and read the meter for myself. I've been doing this for years. Our bills are actually much the same as last year - and we're not making any huge effort to conserve. I think that it's the fact that I regularly read the meter and submit any differences that means our bills are regular.

foggy_lad

the esb say that they read meters at least 4 times a year but this is simply not the case as over the last year my meter was read only twice! and i have noticed in the past that they do not read meters just after an increase then they can estimate the bill wildly exaggerating the reading thus earning themselves an extra few euros from each houshold.

jimmmy

doolox wrote: »

I have said this before on other threads if you have real power you can command real wages. This recent 3% rise by the ESB wages is proof of this.While the average worker has to survive on 30k they can double that by being the Man Who Can Pull the Plug and using that political power.
I's love to be in that position.
What is really needed is a tough regulatory system to encourage competition and give them something to be afraid of, like what happens to other workers.
Same applies to doctors and consultants who can ask what they will for treatment, the more worried the patient the more they will pay.
Those in non-essential sectors of employment, who can easily be replaced, haven't a hope of commanding the same wage.

hear hear. The ESB man is on a lot more than double the average wage in this country, though, unfortunately. That is why we have the second most expensive electricity in Europe, and one of the most expensive in the world.

Musha

If the bill is estimated does it always have the 'E' beside the reading?

Cabaal

foggy_lad wrote: »

the esb say that they read meters at least 4 times a year but this is simply not the case as over the last year my meter was read only twice! and i have noticed in the past that they do not read meters just after an increase then they can estimate the bill wildly exaggerating the reading thus earning themselves an extra few euros from each houshold.

given that its in your interest why don't you read it yourself?

Davy

Musha wrote: »

If the bill is estimated does it always have the 'E' beside the reading?

Yes, it does
'C' is corrected if you submit a reading within 8days
Nothing but the reading - done by a meter reader

dudara

Musha wrote: »

If the bill is estimated does it always have the 'E' beside the reading?

It should have the 'E'. But it's no harm to get into the habit of checking every single bill against the meter. Who knows, maybe the meter man transcribed a number incorrectly?

cycling is fun

If the bill is estimated does it always have the 'E' beside the reading?


the above is not always the case l had an estimated bill recently and there was no e beside it, it had no letter beside it which would suggest that meter reader had read the meter l knew before l looked at meter that it was estimated as my meter is internal l live alone and had not seen meter reader for months and he generally anounces himself in advance by either beeping the horn on his car even before he gets to my house or by knocking on my front door continously and trying to gain entry himself

Davy

cycling is fun wrote: »

If the bill is estimated does it always have the 'E' beside the reading?


the above is not always the case l had an estimated bill recently and there was no e beside it, it had no letter beside it which would suggest that meter reader had read the meter l knew before l looked at meter that it was estimated as my meter is internal l live alone and had not seen meter reader for months and he generally anounces himself in advance by either beeping the horn on his car even before he gets to my house or by knocking on my front door continously and trying to gain entry himself

Well it should have the 'E' beside it. Must happen at certain times where it doesnt i guess

anotherlostie

There have been a lot of complaints where I live on neighbours.ie about the size of the ESB bills sent out this week. My advice to people is that if they want to run storage heaters on a thermostat at 25C all the time and use the washer/drier and dishwasher in the evenings, then they are going to get these bills. I reduced my thermostat from 22 to 20C and had a lower bill this year than this time last. And if it was very cold like last week (post bill of course), I'd throw a rug over my legs to stay toasty!

Sponge Bob

The ESB increased all their estimates by 50% in recent weeks to make up for a big shortfall in cashflow caused by dramatically increased non payment of bills since the summer and also because it was cold

It is a good reason not to use DD with the ESB because they can gouge you when they feel like it

Sofiztikated

anotherlostie wrote: »

There have been a lot of complaints where I live on neighbours.ie about the size of the ESB bills sent out this week. My advice to people is that if they want to run storage heaters on a thermostat at 25C all the time and use the washer/drier and dishwasher in the evenings, then they are going to get these bills. I reduced my thermostat from 22 to 20C and had a lower bill this year than this time last. And if it was very cold like last week (post bill of course), I'd throw a rug over my legs to stay toasty!

I do know that a lot of people around where my OH's mothers house have gotten bills that are ~€200 over what they were expecting. And that included the extra for the cold. Mine is due is next month, and I swear they'll be in for an earful if they try that crap.

Davy

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I do know that a lot of people around where my OH's mothers house have gotten bills that are ~€200 over what they were expecting. And that included the extra for the cold. Mine is due is next month, and I swear they'll be in for an earful if they try that crap.

They charge you for the amount you use, no point in giving them an earful if you use more units.

fabbydabby

And that included the extra for the cold. Mine is due is next month, and I swear they'll be in for an earful if they try that crap.

Damn straight, there's nothing like getting on the phone and verbally assaulting whoever it is that answers the customer calls for ESB to let off a bit of steam. Any time anything is wrong with any of my banking, phone or electricity I ring customer services and let them have it!

Who cares that it's not their fault, and that they are just doing their job, and that they have to listen to cantankerous assholes abusing them all day long? They bloody well DESERVE it.

Davy

fabbydabby wrote: »

Who cares that it's not their fault, and that they are just doing their job, and that they have to listen to cantankerous assholes abusing them all day long? They bloody well DESERVE it.

Glad i dont work in a call centre :rolleyes:

Joe Public

I don't know if this type question has been asked already but here goes anyway.

E.G - My latest bill is estimated and a number of units are charged at 0.1597 Euro and a number at 0.1640 Euro. I don't know when the increase to .1640 came in but it must have been since mid Nov 2008.

My question is, how did they decide how many units to charge at the new higher rate?
Depending on the answer to this I might have more questions.

Davy

Joe Public wrote: »

I don't know if this type question has been asked already but here goes anyway.

E.G - My latest bill is estimated and a number of units are charged at 0.1597 Euro and a number at 0.1640 Euro. I don't know when the increase to .1640 came in but it must have been since mid Nov 2008.

My question is, how did they decide how many units to charge at the new higher rate?
Depending on the answer to this I might have more questions.

They would take the amount of units from previous bills and usage and average them per day then multiply it by the amount of days on both rates giving you the bill you got.

Joe Public

davton wrote: »

They would take the amount of units from previous bills and usage and average them per day then multiply it by the amount of days on both rates giving you the bill you got.

Thanks Davton - when did the last price increase kick in?

Davy

Joe Public wrote: »

Thanks Davton - when did the last price increase kick in?

Think it was jan 1st

Joe Public

davton wrote: »

Think it was jan 1st

Then it probably works out for my bill from 14th Nov to Jan 14th, a 60 day period, that the last 14 days are calculated at the higher rate. I'm guessing then ~ 25% of my usage is on the higher rate as 14 is almost 25% of 60. Looking at the bill 737 units are at the lower rate and 216 are at the higher rate which more or less matches the above guesstimate.

The units are estimated above what I used for the period so ESB will actually lose a little when they eventually adjust to the correct reading.
I'm assuming any future adjustment will be at the latest price per unit.
If they had read the meter and got the correct reading there would have been less units charged at the lower rate. On the other hand they are getting a free loan by overcharging based on their higher than normal estimates.

darc

One of the main reasons for the increase in bills for the last 2 monbths has been the exceptionally cold weather.

Normally ground temps are at an average of 6 - 8 degrees but for the second half of december & all January ground temps have been at multi year lows (sorry, but I watch farming weater too often) of near freezing.

This means that the cold water temperature coming into your house needs a lot more electricity to heat it - anything from Kettles, to washing machines, to dishwashers to showers.

In the summer, "cold" water coming into your house is at approx. 12 degrees, so with average water temp of 40 degrees for washing / showers the cold weather effectively uses 30% more electricity to heat your water.

Sorry to burst the ESB conspiracy bubble.

RoundyMooney

Sleipnir wrote: »

Oh, you'll be pleased to know where the extra is going to. Average ESB worker earns €76,000 and the average worker in Poolbeg earns €125,000!
And they're about to get a 7% bonus payment too!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/esb-risks-new-storm-over-7pc-pay-bonuses--for-senior-staff-1639914.html

Wow, only took three posts for this misinformed bleating to kick off. 10% of the bill from your energy provider *at a push* may be attributable to staff costs. Now take 3.5% of that 10%...

hellboy99 wrote: »

I've never seen one of those, didn't even know they did that.

Yep. May be easier to submit the reading online if you wish. Most out of kilter bills are as a result of estimates, or estimate corrections. If smart metering gets off the ground (and it will), these anomalies will become history, as will the erstwhile meter reader (who I'll agree, we don't see often enough-the fact that most houses these days are empty during working hours doesn't help either).

doolox wrote: »

I have said this before on other threads if you have real power you can command real wages. This recent 3% rise by the ESB wages is proof of this.While the average worker has to survive on 30k they can double that by being the Man Who Can Pull the Plug and using that political power.
I's love to be in that position.
What is really needed is a tough regulatory system to encourage competition and give them something to be afraid of, like what happens to other workers.
Same applies to doctors and consultants who can ask what they will for treatment, the more worried the patient the more they will pay.
Those in non-essential sectors of employment, who can easily be replaced, haven't a hope of commanding the same wage.

More uninformed knee jerking. Bet you didn't know that the reason your bill is so high is because our electricity prices are held artificially high to make it viable for competitors to sell electricity! ESB actually want to reduce the price to a more reasonable level, but its competitors and the regulator are opposed!

The company also threw €300m into the pot last year, to lessen the blow to consumers. They could do this, because the returns to ESB Customer Supply are too high in proportion to the cost to the company to provide that electricity to the customer.

Blame the regulators, they and they alone have screwed the country, from taxis to banks.

dudara wrote: »

Everytime I get a bill, I get the meter key and I go outside and read the meter for myself. I've been doing this for years. Our bills are actually much the same as last year - and we're not making any huge effort to conserve. I think that it's the fact that I regularly read the meter and submit any differences that means our bills are regular.

Indeed. I suspect had many of the callers to last weeks LoiveLoine done the same, then their bills would not have been so varied.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The ESB increased all their estimates by 50% in recent weeks to make up for a big shortfall in cashflow caused by dramatically increased non payment of bills since the summer and also because it was cold

Absolute bullcrap.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is a good reason not to use DD with the ESB because they can gouge you when they feel like it

A bill is a bill, whatever the payment method.

Joe Public

I've never been underestimated on an ESB bill which means they have been getting free loans from me for years. I'd imagine this is the norm and a handy way of pulling in extra millions when needed. Is there any other service company that has this power.( pardon the pun )

Joe Public

darc wrote: »

One of the main reasons for the increase in bills for the last 2 monbths has been the exceptionally cold weather.

Normally ground temps are at an average of 6 - 8 degrees but for the second half of december & all January ground temps have been at multi year lows (sorry, but I watch farming weater too often) of near freezing.

This means that the cold water temperature coming into your house needs a lot more electricity to heat it - anything from Kettles, to washing machines, to dishwashers to showers.

In the summer, "cold" water coming into your house is at approx. 12 degrees, so with average water temp of 40 degrees for washing / showers the cold weather effectively uses 30% more electricity to heat your water.

Sorry to burst the ESB conspiracy bubble.

A large % of homes have central heating using oil or gas which in turn also heats the water which is used to feed washing machines and dishwashers.
Hot water for baths and sinks would also be dependent on the central heating. Water for kettles and showers would usually be sourced from a cold supply ok.
In summer when central heating is not used more people tend to use electric immersion heaters to heat the water.

highdef

fabbydabby wrote: »

Damn straight, there's nothing like getting on the phone and verbally assaulting whoever it is that answers the customer calls for ESB to let off a bit of steam. Any time anything is wrong with any of my banking, phone or electricity I ring customer services and let them have it!

Who cares that it's not their fault, and that they are just doing their job, and that they have to listen to cantankerous assholes abusing them all day long? They bloody well DESERVE it.

My friend who is sitting here beside me and worked in a call centre said that when he or his fellow worker came across an asshole like you and he tried to resolve your problem and there was no helping as you you were just out to abuse and make his job more stressful than it already was, he would have just hung up on you. Being a prick gets you nowhere. If you're intelligent enough to be courteous and realise that it is not their fault and they're also the lowest paid in the company. They will probably feel sorry for you and help you but assholes like you deserve to wait another 15 minutes trying to get through the automatic answering system only to be hung up again because the next person couldn't be arsed listening to you abuse them leaving you more frustrated. Management in the call centres encourage you to advise customers if they are being abusive and their call will be terminated but can oversee a click of the mouse (that accidentally) terminates the call, if deserved. Enjoy holding!!!!

darc

Joe Public wrote: »

A large % of homes have central heating using oil or gas which in turn also heats the water which is used to feed washing machines and dishwashers.
Hot water for baths and sinks would also be dependent on the central heating. Water for kettles and showers would usually be sourced from a cold supply ok.
In summer when central heating is not used more people tend to use electric immersion heaters to heat the water.

Most Diswashers & Washing machines are normally fed from cold water inlet only as are most electric showers.

fabbydabby

Hidef, you should probably check out

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

Cabaal

Joe Public wrote: »

A large % of homes have central heating using oil or gas which in turn also heats the water which is used to feed washing machines and dishwashers.
Hot water for baths and sinks would also be dependent on the central heating. Water for kettles and showers would usually be sourced from a cold supply ok.
In summer when central heating is not used more people tend to use electric immersion heaters to heat the water.

This is very much incorrect,

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Joe Public wrote: »

A large % of homes have central heating using oil or gas which in turn also heats the water which is used to feed washing machines and dishwashers.
Hot water for baths and sinks would also be dependent on the central heating. Water for kettles and showers would usually be sourced from a cold supply ok.

Wrong. Most houses use a cold feed to washers. It's more economical to let the machine heat the water than using oil or gas. The water used still has to be re-heated by your cenral heating system.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Joe Public wrote: »

I've never been underestimated on an ESB bill which means they have been getting free loans from me for years. I'd imagine this is the norm and a handy way of pulling in extra millions when needed. Is there any other service company that has this power.( pardon the pun )

Firstly I've often had under-estimated bills so your theory is shot. I've also heard many a complaint that people got large bills because previous ones were under-estimated for some time. Why do we always get these crackpot theories?
Secondly, has it ever occured to you that rather than getting "free loans" from you, you are actually paying ESB in arrears for a product you consumed up to 2 months earlier? In fact two and a half months when we allow for the 14 day payment term.

Joe Public

Cabaal wrote: »

This is very much incorrect,

why?

Joe Public

Selah Howling Eraser wrote: »

Wrong. Most houses use a cold feed to washers. It's more economical to let the machine heat the water than using oil or gas. The water used still has to be re-heated by your cenral heating system.

Washing machines less than 10 years old have a cold feed only while older ones have both hot and cold. A large % of washing machines are older than 10 years. In winter time there is a better chance of having spare hot water, heated by gas or oil, in the cylinder thus saving on electricity.

Joe Public

Selah Howling Eraser wrote: »

Firstly I've often had under-estimated bills so your theory is shot. I've also heard many a complaint that people got large bills because previous ones were under-estimated for some time. Why do we always get these crackpot theories?
Secondly, has it ever occured to you that rather than getting "free loans" from you, you are actually paying ESB in arrears for a product you consumed up to 2 months earlier? In fact two and a half months when we allow for the 14 day payment term.

My bills are always over-estimated, at least any I have checked against the meter. It's more normal to pay for a service after you get it.

ongarite

I got the Efergy energy meter mentioned in another ESB thread and its an addictive device to use. Some of the findings so far are very interesting, well worth the €42 if you are interested in lowering bill.

Quick boil kettle=2.5kW
Immersion=3kW
Storage Heating=2.7kW
PC=120W
TV=120-270W depending on picture

Cabaal

Joe Public wrote: »

Washing machines less than 10 years old have a cold feed only while older ones have both hot and cold. A large % of washing machines are older than 10 years. In winter time there is a better chance of having spare hot water, heated by gas or oil, in the cylinder thus saving on electricity.

Really, you might want to tell the last 6 houses and 6 new washing machines I've seen then, all cold only

So basically your statement is inaccurate, maybe not 100% incorrect but certainly misleading and inaccurate to people reading it.

Joe Public wrote: »

My bills are always over-estimated, at least any I have checked against the meter. It's more normal to pay for a service after you get it.

Whats stopping you submitting your meter reading to the ESB instead of relying on estimated bills?

Cabaal

ongarite wrote: »

I got the Efergy energy meter mentioned in another ESB thread and its an addictive device to use. Some of the findings so far are very interesting, well worth the €42 if you are interested in lowering bill.

Quick boil kettle=2.5kW
Immersion=3kW
Storage Heating=2.7kW
PC=120W
TV=120-270W depending on picture

Its certainly the way to go alright, makes you alot more aware of whats using the most power. Spot lights are a killer imho

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Joe Public wrote: »

It's more normal to pay for a service after you get it.

Just on a point of order. It is a product you are consuming not a service!:rolleyes:

Sleipnir

Cabaal wrote: »

Spot lights are a killer imho

Put them on a dimmer.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Joe Public wrote: »

Washing machines less than 10 years old have a cold feed only while older ones have both hot and cold. A large % of washing machines are older than 10 years. In winter time there is a better chance of having spare hot water, heated by gas or oil, in the cylinder thus saving on electricity.

You quote "a large %" very easily. A large % of washing machines are not over 10 years old and I had cold water only feed back in 1985. The argument that you are using spare hot water doesn't (forgive the pun) hold water. You do not have spare hot water as any used will be replaced by burning fuel. If you have spare hot water then you have wasted enery heating it. Oh dear look at all the hot water going to waste lets do a wash???

LIS

sorry to but in on your thread,not sure if this is the place to post...sorry in advance.
just got my bill 342.00 euro.usually our bill is 160.00 to 180.00.i realise there has been a recent increase in prices.my house is next to my dads house.he is retired always at home(minding grandchildren).me and my wife work all day.his bill was 172.00 euro this time.the meter reading is right.i just think there is something wrong.is this possible???????thanks in advance for info:)