The SFIV count down thread!

Kirby

Hell yes, getting it for the PS3

Most people manage it just fine. Perhaps you need to adjust the way you use your hands?

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

you on a stick? sure you can set it to 1 button if you like in the options menu.

I mean its not like FADC is gamebreakingly important at our level. I've yet to facd into ultra during a match and I'm enjoying it and getting on just fine.

The SRK shortcuts are the big problem. They added that to make it easier for people to do srk style inputs but doing so made it harder to do everything else.

main reason i mess up my fadc most of the time is a feckin ex move comes out instead of my ultra.

in case people are confused as to what I'm on about , SRK is done by inputing forward>down to forward again. the short cut is just hitting the diagonal twice.

but if people are doing down forward down forward 3x p for ultras and the 3xp lands at the diagonal forward, instead of a clean forward, the game thinks you just did an srk shortcut.

Same goes for charge characters like bison, as his teleport uses the srk motion, the shortcut applies also and this is why teleports pop out sometimes instead of ultras. (he ended the motion at a diagonal and not a clean forward, or even an upwards diagonal) but in every other sf these things would come out as long as some type of forward was hit. So really , capcom ****ed up there.

That's because in every Street Fighter before this one, as long as it ended in "Forward" of some sort, it would go off. It would work in this game too (Which is why UF works) if not for the short cut. The SHORTCUT is superceding the natural input engine which would normally see a "DF" as a "Down-Forward" and go" "Ah, he wants to do an Ultra, which would end in Forward. I get it. Here you go Dictator, here's your Ultra which you requested, sloppily but ****it, enjoy."

Instead the dumb bitch goes. "Oh, looks like he went Down-Forward again let me summon up an Ultr~... oh wait, I just got this memo here. Uhm, let's see Down-Forward after Back.... a Dragon Punch motion? Well that doesn't make any sense you sure? Hold on a second, where is that num.... ah, ok... yeah Capcom? Oh John wussup? Yeah this guy here seems to have done a sloppy Ultra motion like he's been doing for years and usually I'd giv... yeah i t's about the new short cuts. Yeah.... yeah.... yeah I got the memo says to do a Dragon Punch but I thought that was Forward, then Down... ok.... I see. Well, I think it'd be kind of messed up cuz if I give him the DP he's going to Teleport. Yeah.... Yeah it'd be funny as hell, but it's kind of ****ed up you know? Yeah I know. Well it's not your fault. How the kids doin'? That's good man. Well I'll be seeing ya at the company Christmas party this year right? Ok then. I'll talk to ya la...yeah whatever you bum haha ok, bye. Oh well, here it is, a nice ol Teleport for ya big man. New Capcom policy. Oh ****, there it goes. Damn, KO'd by a scrubby Ken. That's gotta suck."

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181680

Smellyirishman

I just stopped by to let you know that I suck so very very hard at this game.

1 - 11 record so far.

Dreddybajs

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

in case people are confused as to what I'm on about , SRK is done by inputing forward>down to forward again. the short cut is just hitting the diagonal twice.

Forward, down, down-forward is an SRK actually. So if you don't complete the second quarter-circle fully, and you've done qcf leading into down, down-forward, then a SRK is what SHOULD be coming out - this isn't because of that particular shortcut (df, df).

Never had any problems with other moves coming out for Bison instead of the ultra, and the leniency in the system is very useful for other characters (eg. Blanka's KKK hop into ultra).

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Forward, down, down-forward is an SRK actually.

lol you seem to always misunderstand me, thats what I said an srk was I've been entering srks for over 10 years. & I never said anything about the new shortcut system messing up standard srks.

Anyway, in case people are confused I'll try with images=

Srk motion = (or kick if your someone like cammy, or if your doing bisons teleport etc etc)

The new troublesome shortcut =

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Never had any problems with other moves coming out for Bison instead of the ultra

Well the only move that should come out instead would be his teleport (the one where he teleports on the spot) otherwise the motions being done completely wrong. Its an issue effecting a lot of people if not most, even more so when doing a stream of moves before entering the utlra, in any other sf it'd work but in this it wont as the shortcut is read 1st. I would assume its more of an issue with d-pad users however it seems arcade stick users find it annoying too. I see it happen to really high skilled players all the time. Entering in a command that worked fine that way for years now they have to be more careful when entering it cause of a mechanic thats meant to make the game easier for noobs? Retarded.

The only use for the shortcut I've seen would be say, as a anti cross over tool. Other than that its really only handy if your a bad flowchart ken player, and those players will curse the shortcut once they get better at the game lol.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

the leniency in the system is very useful for other characters (eg. Blanka's KKK hop into ultra).

I don't play blanka so I dunno, but by leniency are you saying the 'srk motion shortcut' itself directly helps with this? Or did you mean something else?

noodler

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

lol you seem to always misunderstand me, thats what I said an srk was I've been entering srks for over 10 years. & I never said anything about the new shortcut system messing up standard srks.

Anyway, in case people are confused I'll try with images=

He isn't the only one!

Eh Oh!

Dreddybajs

apologies Cunny, was referring to the bit of your post I quoted, thought you were saying in that that you had to circle back up to f, not df. I getcha though.

And yeah I don't play Bison a whole bunch so it's likely I just haven't been caught by that yet. And nah, I didn't mean the df, df specifically, just the leniency in the system that allows it to happen, as it allows stuff like the EX armor glitches to happen (kara-cancelling an EX move with armor into another one, into ultra).

In previous games what would happen if you fudged Bison's ultra input a little? Would scissor kick have come out instead?

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

noodler wrote: »

He isn't the only one!

Eh Oh!

jesus noodler, don't tell me your still not over that. There is a bit of a difference between a misunderstanding when talking about inputs on a d-pad, to thinking someone had no idea what a particular game is about and what genre it is when in the very same post he says he played the feckin demo...

Dreddybajs wrote: »

And yeah I don't play Bison a whole bunch so it's likely I just haven't been caught by that yet.

You'll spot it happen to others however, watch their ultra meter and if you see them random teleport into the same spot, usually means there going for ultra lol.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

as it allows stuff like the EX armor glitches to happen (kara-cancelling an EX move with armor into another one, into ultra).

Never heard of this before but once again, does this require the short cut to pull off? (asking just cause I really can't see anything positive about the shortcut and think it seriously should be removed from the game)

Dreddybajs wrote: »

In previous games what would happen if you fudged Bison's ultra input a little? Would scissor kick have come out instead?

No the ultra would come out. I'll explain further, but I'm not arsed using pics right now so bare with me.

Bisons ultra motion is this : Down back (DB) (charge) forward-back-forward ->kkk

however a lot of people enter in those commands like this:

DB(charge)-down-DF-F-DF-D-DB-D-DF-F ->KKK (in other words rolling their thumb along the bottom part of the d-pad instead of a clean forward back forward, which would be more realistic to do with a stick)



The problem is that a lot of the time, instead of ending the motion on a clean forward and hitting kkk, kkk would be hit when the motion ends on DF instead. This normally wouldnt be an issue, but now due to the short cut, the game reads the two DF's and see's it as an SRK.

You'll find that even with an SRK motion, on a d-pad it'd normally be DF+P thats picked up, instead of a clean forward. So the ultra will wiff for shoto characters due to KKK or PPP being hit that millisecond too early.

in other words: would result in an ex dragon punch for ryu, instead of a ultra fireball.

To avoid the ex SRK coming out, you have to make sure to do it like this:



which isnt always easy on a d-pad in the middle of a heated battle considering A it worked fine for years that way and B you were always trying to end it on a forward anyway. Dpads tend to still register the diagonals when your rolling your thumb to forward anyway, if your doing it fast that is.

Azza

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Bisons Ultra is down or down/back charge, foward, back, foward+ KKK
But its best to end the input with up foward to decrease the chances of a teleport. However you may end up doing a jumping roundhose but I find this method much more consistent.

Bison can hold charge for his siccors kick, pyscho crusher, headstomp and devils reverse if he teleports backwards but only his devils reverse and headstomp if he teleports foward. Using an ex move like a pyscho crusher or siccors kick will almost certainly stuff whatever the other person is trying to do you when you come out of a teleport.

In Super Turbo Bison did not have a teleleport but likely hood of fudging his Knee Press Nightmare would of been a standard siccors kick or just a regular kick.

Dreddybajs

What I'm saying is that the "shortcut" isn't specifically built into the game separately, it's just a byproduct of the lenient input system. If you have any information showing that it is a deliberate shortcut, do post - and I do agree it would be better were that particular part of the system patched somehow.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmx4RqruYcA - Video showing the EX kara-cancels into ultra for characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7iWYL_22TM&feature=related - Video showing Balrog doing a low EX dash punch, then a straight EX dash punch - thus cancelling both EX fireballs.

The glitch is that the first kara-cancelled EX move won't use meter. I think Balrog could theoretically cancel a third time (as in, low EX dash, straight EX dash, EX headbutt).

This stuff isn't specifically the incomplete dragon punch that you're talking about, but it's all a result of SFIV's leniency in its inputs.

This also helps Blanka, as he can charge DB, then do DF + KKK to hop crossover, then DB, then F+PPP to ultra.

I'm not sure if they could make that one input stricter just for Bison's sake, though if the problem is as bad as you say, then maybe Capcom should be looking into it.

edit: And yeah, that's what I figured would happen in ST Azza.

L31mr0d

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Ok quick question:

Is HP the same as PPP?

I mean if I mapped both HP and HK to PPP and KKK would they be the same? When you tap PPP what punch is it using?

Dreddybajs

HP I'm pretty sure, though I think that'd be a bad idea since you'd do EX special moves instead of HP special moves whenever you used it (as long as you had meter).

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Azza wrote: »

In Super Turbo Bison did not have a teleleport but likely hood of fudging his Knee Press Nightmare would of been a standard siccors kick or just a regular kick.

Not in the example we're talking about here though, in ST if you pressed K when you were on DF the super would still come out. Cause normally as long as any version of forward is pressed, the game accepted it. Thats why up forward works. Its still like this in SFIV its just now theres another move 'in the way' that it'll pick up 1st

Dreddybajs wrote: »

What I'm saying is that the "shortcut" isn't specifically built into the game separately, it's just a byproduct of the lenient input system. If you have any information showing that it is a deliberate shortcut, do post - and I do agree it would be better were that particular part of the system patched somehow.

I'm actually pretty positive the shortcut is a different thing. I dunno your background in SF.(ST player only or 3rd strike too etc) But in terms of the 'lenient' input system this is more to do with timing for special moves and cancels and stuff, or rather the amount of frames the window of opportunity for these things are. For example, 3rd Strike was much more forgiving in these terms compared to ST. I could do for example, low medium kick into hard dragon punch all day with ken in third strike. But in ST and HDR , I enter it the very same way, and found it much harder to pull off (which is understandable as landing that in ST/HDR hit for a ton of damage) SFIV's leniency is around the same as 3s or maybe more in the middle of the two.
However, 3s was far more forgiving for the timing on links compared to SFIV, where linking is much harder on the timing.

As far as I understand it, the shortcut actually IS a totally separate thing. Its in those terms its always discussed as in threads on SRK which is where I get most of my info. Am I 100% sure though? No.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Ok quick question:

Is HP the same as PPP?

I mean if I mapped both HP and HK to PPP and KKK would they be the same? When you tap PPP what punch is it using?

From my experience , when you hit ppp or kkk, the game tries to do whatever normal move is the best. So this would typically mean hard punch or hard kick would come out. However, if a character has a particular special 'normal' in other words forward and a button, it would do that instead.

For example, you play akuma, so if your standing and press ppp, he'll do a HP. But if you press forward and PPP he'll do his medium punch 2 hit overhead chop.

If your ken and press forward and KKK he'll do his HK over head, and if your press back and KKK he'll do his MK overhead. *which used to be a 2 hit move in 3s I miss the 2 hits.

**edit** oh and yes I agree with what Dreddybajs said there. I actually experimented with what your talking about cause I hate using my left hand for pressing the move and the combo for it. But its not a good idea as Dreddybajs pointed out. I just look forward to the PC version so I can map the right stick to 'up' = PPP and 'down' = kkk so I can use my right hand instead.

Dreddybajs

Yeah, the frame window for DPs in ST is ridiculously small - think it was increased in HDR, though. Either way, compared to 3S/IV, the inputs are ridiculously tighter in ST.

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Yes indeed, ST is still the much harder game. Out of all the SF's that I know of anyway. But picture it if it was as easy as SFIV and 3s? With the health bars as they were, matchs would be over waaaaay too fast LOL .

damn we need a fighting game forum

Retr0gamer

I was totally against the idea but I'm actually for it now after getting back into the whole SF series and Samurai Showdown.

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Hell would you be up for a mod for the section if we get it?

Retr0gamer

Well if you can't find anyone else I wouldn't mind.

Retr0gamer

Palyed a good few games of super turbo with azza. Was having a tough time pulling off specials on my fight pad but put it down to the more strict timing in Super turbo. Then had the bright idea of getting off the laptop and playing with my sidewinder on the PC. Well the difference was dramatic. I was back to my old self pulling off specials and whiffing none of them. I've come to the conclusion that the fightpad isn't all that great at all.

I still got my ass kicked by his bison, and well every other character he chose.

K.O.Kiki

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

You mean this beauty?

Retr0gamer

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You mean this beauty?

The very one, aboslutely phenomenal pad, as good as the saturn pad. I love how MS brought out versions of it afterwards that were totally changed and utterly crap. They had less buttons or a crappy d-pad. So for the final version they decided to make the best gamepad they could. The made an exact replica of the first sidewinder except it was usb instead of gameport

It's so good. The d-pad is really tight, stiff and accurate and the centre of the d-pad is recessed so your thumb fits into it so it requires very little movement. Even 270 movements like Zangiefs SPD are easy to pull off. I was wondering why I was so crap at specials until I went back to the sidewinder.

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Interesting, I wonder why they didnt just use that d-pad for the 360.

Ah well , a positive is, at least you can use this if you get SFIV for the PC!

L31mr0d

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Ok quick question about fighting against Vega. When he does that jump that bounces off the wall and then slices above your head, how do you block that? The amount of Vegas online that just spam that move over and over.

Azza

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

What makes Vegas wall dive so deadly is that its a cross up move.

You need to hold the opposite direction to which he is hitting from but that might be the same as the side he jumped off the wall from.


For example your standing on the left side of the screen. Vega does a wall dive and slashes from your right hand side, then you will hold back left to block. If he goes over your head and attacks from the left you hold back right.

However sometimes he attacks from right above your head and you will have to determine which side he is more on and block the opposite way.

Make sure you do a standing block as you can't crouch block it.

However its best not to block it but counter with a netural or backwards air attack. Find out what move stuffs it and use it. For example Bisons jumping medium punch will beat out Vega's wall dive attack.

If you do decide to just block the wall dive Vega can land a throw from his wall dive if he presses the button and the direction towards you when he is right beside you.

Be grateful your not fighting Super Turbo edition Vega who was much faster.
Vega in SF IV is one of the poorer characters. His wall dive and crystal roll are really slow. He does not do alot of damage either.

Jim

Hell yes, getting it for the PS3

I certainly don't wanna play this kid in a ranked match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65S_j_SwI9Q

Azza

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

Impressive better than the vast majority of Ken Flowchart players online anyway.

But in the end that child will pay for not embracing Pyscho Power!

Jim

Hell yes, getting it for the PS3

Azza wrote: »

Impressive better than the vast majority of Ken Flowchart players online anyway.

But in the end that child will pay for not embracing Pyscho Power!

You should start saying to them over voice comm

"Hit the buttons, the buttons, hit the buttons, hit the buttons, oh a throw, nice, hit the buttons"

They might improve.

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

lolz. If I was the one recording that I would have sent the link of the youtube vid to the guy who was playing bison there (assuming it was an online match)

Retr0gamer

If you read it, it was a 5 year old playing bison

Cunny-Funt

Yes but I'm holding out for the PC version.

sssssssssh you, your ruining the funniness

<_<

>_>


:P