How did Chopin learn piano?

pkumohideeile

years and years ago, I wonder how did people learn the piano. Did the likes of Mozart and Beethoven compose very easy pieces that people could use to practise from a beginners level?

I'm looking to pick up the classical piano and dive straight into 'real' classical music and not just some beginnners easy frills and kindie passages. Any suggestions? How can I find out the skill level of a piece? It seems the world of the classical piano doesn't seem as easy to navigate through than other genres of music would be. I've learnt music theory before so apart from being slow to place the notes to keys i'm good to go.

Any advice is appreciated people. Thanks if so.

Doshea3

Find a teacher who's willing and able to help you progress into playing well at a good pace, by choosing appropriate music balanced with technical exercises. There is nothing worse than seeing someone with a faulty technique playing big Chopin or Liszt pieces, but it happens because people are so willing to launch into playing what is not suited to their level of ability. Just because someone who has recently come to learning can play "La Campanella" doesn't mean they have well-rounded technique—it just means they have practised that one technique ad nauseam and they probably can't play anything else well, even simple pieces. It happens, and I have seen it. I have seen relative amateurs butchering works I would never dream of playing, and I am a fairly "advanced" pianist (whatever that means).

I have a relatively new pupil who sounds like you, who was interested in playing real classical music and who could already read music and had a good knowledge of theory, and who is already playing preludes by Chopin and Bach.

I think background knowledge is an important thing. If you're already well-up on things like theory, you can concentrate completely on learning technique and "real" music. Of course, you also need a hell of a lot of practice, but if you really want to do it you will. It's one thing I really believe in as a teacher. If someone really wants to get straight into playing real music, it's perfectly possible. But the main thing is that you find a teacher who believes this and is willing to help and encourage you, because unfortunately most old-fashioned piano teachers are very closed-minded about this. The important thing is to approach music only when you know you are entirely capable of playing it from a technical level, and never allow yourself to just "play at" the music, as this is where bad technical habits begin.

How did Chopin learn? Not sure to be honest. But Liszt learned from Czerny and practised about twelve hours a day. Fill those twelve hours with scales, arpeggios, trills and Czerny studies and you'll be a wizard in no time.

Doshea3

Having read your post again, to answer your questions more directly...

pkumohideeile wrote: »

Did the likes of Mozart and Beethoven compose very easy pieces that people could use to practise from a beginners level?

Most of Mozart's easy music is deceptively difficult, and the music he wrote as a child is not very stimulating to play (including several piano concertos!). Beethoven has some easier works, though mostly dull pieces which he wrote to make money. However, there are sonatinas by each which are interesting. Particularly Mozart's Viennese sonatinas, and even Beethoven's easier sonatas (op. 49 comes to mind). These may not be the most profound works in the repertory, but are very good for learning how to play Classical music before you tackle say, a Mozart sonata. Sonatinas by Clementi, Diabelli etc. are also useful for this, but very much in the world of "piano lesson repertoire"!

pkumohideeile wrote: »

How can I find out the skill level of a piece?

From the graded exam system that exists in this part of the world we have developed a false idea of what level and standard pieces are. In truth, I have started talented pupils playing what would be considered Grade IV standard and who may quickly progress to Grade VI pieces and beyond. This is because there is really no such thing as a system of classification of difficulty. Each piece has its own difficulties, and in grade exams the principal difficulties of much of the repertoire are very basic ones such as note-reading and not actually technical problems. If one actively studies different aspects of technique they will progress much quicker than by following the exam syllabus. So my short answer to how do you find out the level of the piece is just ask a good teacher is the piece appropriate for you. There's no easier way to define it.

pkumohideeile wrote: »

I've learnt music theory before so apart from being slow to place the notes to keys i'm good to go.

Sounds like you're in an ideal position then. Just find a good teacher, even if you only have sporadic lessons. Stories of self-taught pianists abound, but you'll find the best self-taught ones had advice along the way from masters. Plus, a good teacher will show you how to work without developing bad habits, which take years to break and which always hinder progress.

Good luck! Any other questions feel free to ask, and I will try my best to help.

Sandwich

Doshea3 wrote: »

Most of Mozart's easy music is deceptively difficult

Often wondered how true this old chestnut ("easy to play, difficult to play well" etc.) is. Pet theory is that they are in fact as easy as they look. Its just a desire to invest them with greatness beyond their station that forces great pianists to 'struggle' to find the difficulty that isnt really there in the first place - by its nature, an impossible task.

Just one man's 2c.

Doshea3

Sandwich wrote: »

Its just a desire to invest them with greatness beyond their station that forces great pianists to 'struggle' to find the difficulty that isnt really there in the first place...

The reason Mozart's piano music is deceptively difficult is this. There are few notes on the page, and the apparent lack of technical problems (say, compared to Beethoven sonatas) makes it appear to be simple on the surface. However, the very lack of notes creates exposed textures the like of which are found nowhere else (not even in the piano music of Haydn). Mozart's manner of piano writing is quite idiomatic for his instrument, but on our modern pianos it is much more difficult to strike the correct balance in such exposed textures. The difficulty is principally in basic technical matters and interpretation. Just look at any below average pianist play Mozart and you can see how difficult it is to make it sound good—whereas playing, say, Liszt studies is easy once you master the technical side. I don't think anyone has ever said Mozart's piano sonatas are "difficult music"—they are wonderfully accessible.

The Mad Hatter

Doshea3 wrote: »

The reason Mozart's piano music is deceptively difficult is this. There are few notes on the page, and the apparent lack of technical problems (say, compared to Beethoven sonatas) makes it appear to be simple on the surface. However, the very lack of notes creates exposed textures the like of which are found nowhere else (not even in the piano music of Haydn). Mozart's manner of piano writing is quite idiomatic for his instrument, but on our modern pianos it is much more difficult to strike the correct balance in such exposed textures. The difficulty is principally in basic technical matters and interpretation. Just look at any below average pianist play Mozart and you can see how difficult it is to make it sound good—whereas playing, say, Liszt studies is easy once you master the technical side. I don't think anyone has ever said Mozart's piano sonatas are "difficult music"—they are wonderfully accessible.

I'm going to second you on this one - I'm slightly scared of playing Mozart because it's so exposed, though I'll take pretty much anything else on...

Doshea3

I know plenty of excellent pianists who won't touch Mozart for the same reason. There is nothing easy about his piano concertos either—they are full of horrendous technical pitfalls. I have two pupils at the moment who are learning Mozart sonata first movements—the so-called "Sonata Facile" in C major K. 545 (which is not anything near as easy as its title may suggest), and K. 330 in C major, which is in my repertoire and which I assure you took me many long and painstaking hours trying to refine it into a playable shape. If you don't invest a lot of time and effort in Mozart's sonatas, then they are going to come out just sounding boring.

dossing@work

I recently wanted to know the same thing myself, and found this at UCD library (Sorry, I still have it checked out!): Chopin : pianist and teacher as seen by his pupils / Jean-Jacques Eigeldinger

Goes through letters of students to find Chopin's methodology. I found it extremely informative, both for techinical/stylistic reasons, and for reasons of what to practice/what did Chopin practice.

He really liked Bach's 48 preludes and fugues, as well as Clementi's Preludes et Exercise'. I got the Bach 48 and also John Field's (a Dubliner!) Nocturnes (which influenced Chopin to write Nocturnes).

Anyway, hope that helps. From an avid student of Chopin.