Wales v England (pre/during/post thread)

juvenal

Wales v England
Saturday 14 February 2009 5.30pm (Irish)
Millenium Stadium, Cardiff
Live on RTÉ2, RTÉ.ie, RTÉ Radio 1; BBC1, BBC Radio 5 Live


Wales|No.|England
Lee Byrne|15|Delon Armitage
Leigh Halfpenny|14|Paul Sackey
Tom Shanklin|13|Mike Tindall
Jamie Roberts|12|Rickey Flutey
Shane Williams**|11|Mark Cueto
Stephen Jones|10|Andy Goode
Mike Phillips|9|Harry Ellis
Gethin Jenkins|1|Andrew Sheridan
Matthew Rees|2|Lee Mears
Adam Jones|3|Phil Vickery
Ian Gough|4|Steve Borthwick
Alun-Wyn Jones|5|Nick Kennedy
Ryan Jones|6|James Haskell
Martyn Williams|7|Joe Worsley
Andy Powell**|8|Nick Easter

** Will face fitness tests on Friday to determine availability

Wales Replacements: Huw Bennett, John Yapp, Luke Charteris, Dafydd Jones, Dwayne Peel, James Hook, Andrew Bishop.

England Replacements: D Hartley, J White, T Croft, L Narraway, P Hodgson, T Flood, M Tait.

Referee: Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Alan Lewis (Ireland), Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland)
Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

juvenal

Welsh team will be announced tomorrow (Thursday).

Judgement Day

If the performance against Italy was anything to go by England needn't bother to turn up. They must be really desperate to put that plank Andy Goode out again.

Noopti

This should be Wales game to win, but England could easily spoil things by actually fronting up and disrupting the Welsh rhythm. I personally don't think that will happen (Wales should win by 15-20), but I conversely wouldn't be surprised to see this at something like 9-3 at half time, and a similarily close score at the finish.

juvenal

Cannot see past a Welsh victory, albeit a close, hard match.

I'll predict tomorrow after the Welsh team announcement.

Erin Go Brath

I don't think its a foregone conclusion that Wales will walk this one. I slightly fancy them to do the business but i suspect it'll be a close one. England weren't that awful against Italy, they did beat them comfortably after all. I know Italy messed up with Bergamascos scrum half effort, but i will fully reserve judgement on England until I see how they do this weekend. Interesting game.

skregs

i see wales winning it first half, then spending the second half worryi g aobut getting home in time for neighbours

toomevara

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

I don't think its a foregone conclusion that Wales will walk this one. I slightly fancy them to do the business but i suspect it'll be a close one. England weren't that awful against Italy, they did beat them comfortably after all. I know Italy messed up with Bergamascos scrum half effort, but i will fully reserve judgement on England until I see how they do this weekend. Interesting game.

It seems from the team sheet, and what I've been reading, that England are planning to strangle the Welsh, and try to stop stop them playing...Thats when they seem to flourish (RWC 2007 stylee)...England tend to be at their best when playing negative rugby so who knows, but tbh, under the ELV's and given that the Welsh are at least as fit and athletic in the tight five, if not more so than the English, I can't see past Wales, unless, that is, they suffer some sort of catastrophic implosion....

NickNolte

No matter how hard I try to imagine it, I can't see England beating Wales in any area of play. If they try and strangle Wales, they'll be hammered at every breakdown. In open play, they'll be utterly trounced. The two teams are a different class at the moment.

barnesd

While nothing is guaranteed, I really can't see Wales losing this one. England are in disarray, they were handed most of their points on a gilded platter last weekend, and that was Italy, in Twickenham.

Noffles

Wales should win this, albeit I say should, this tournament has a a history of spoilers! They looked so comfortable playing the game in the first half I've never been so relaxed watching Wales play... second half a different tale but bringing on every sub usually changes things for the worst..

Sadly I was offered 2 x tickets for the Millennium last night... but could I get a hotel in Cardiff..... not a chance!!

NickNolte

Noffles wrote: »

Wales should win this, albeit I say should, this tournament has a a history of spoilers!

Indeed but I'd say if anyone has a chance of spoiling Wales, it'll be France who still going to be reeling from the Ireland defeat.

Noffles wrote: »

Sadly I was offered 2 x tickets for the Millennium last night... but could I get a hotel in Cardiff..... not a chance!!

Go anyway. Someone will give you a floor... or a bar... to sleep on.

Noffles

Noffles wrote: »

Sadly I was offered 2 x tickets for the Millennium last night... but could I get a hotel in Cardiff..... not a chance!!

Get a taxi to bristol and stay in the Hilton. Thats assuming you'd be flying into Bristol.

Noffles

All good suggestions, shame the missus wanted the other ticket I would of gone alone and stayed wherever I ended up... The tickets of been re distributed now anyway... I still have the Wales v Ireland to go to though so I'm not too disappointed!

juvenal

Welsh team has been announced as above. Shane Williams and Andy Powell will both face late fitness tests tomorrow, as doubts still remain regarding their injuries.

No place for Henson, who fails to recover in time, although captain Ryan Jones remains in the back row having overcome a calf strain.

fifth

I missed the italy and england game last week so will be interesting to see this.

Wasn't too impressed with wales against scotland..but despite that, have wales to win by 5-10 points..

Noffles

juvenal wrote: »

Welsh team has been announced as above. Shane Williams and Andy Powell will both face late fitness tests tomorrow, as doubts still remain regarding their injuries.

No place for Henson, who fails to recover in time, although captain Ryan Jones remains in the back row having overcome a calf strain.

Good to Ryan Jones back although he'll have to perform well / better than he is domestically!

Hope Williams and Powell get through, they had equally good games, Williams a tad greedy at times.

Noopti

Williams not playing. He could have done some real damage to England, but I can't see it changing the result!

juvenal

Huge blow for Wales as the current IRB International Player of the Year Shane Williams was today ruled out of the Wales-England match due to injury.

Williams sprained an ankle in the 26-13 victory over Scotland on Sunday, and did not recover in time to face England in Cardiff tomorrow. His place on the wing will be taken by Mark Jones, who returns to action after more than an eight week lay-off due to appendicitis.

Number eight Andy Powell is fit for the match after overcoming a calf strain.

toomevara

juvenal wrote: »

Huge blow for Wales as the current IRB International Player of the Year Shane Williams was today ruled out of the Wales-England match due to injury.

Not really. A shame for the player himself, but the current welsh second fifteen, would imo, comfortably dispatch england tomorrow....,.

juvenal

toomevara wrote: »

Not really. A shame for the player himself, but the current welsh second fifteen, would imo, comfortably dispatch england tomorrow....,.

I think he's a big loss, and Mark Jones coming in after over two months on the sidelines isn't anywhere near as good a replacement.

The last thing Wales want tomorrow is to be dragged into a dogfight with England, who will try and strangle the game and keep it close and tight. Now without Williams (not to say that they still won't win), it's one of the major threats from deep and out wide that England won't have to worry about.

toomevara

juvenal wrote: »

it's one of the major threats from deep and out wide that England won't have to worry about.

Agreed.

Stick_man

Losing Williams is a blow but really can anyone see anything other then a welsh win here? Gatland will use Williams absence as another motivating tool. Roberts and Shanklin will wreak havoc against Tindall and Flutey. Wales by ten at least.

Erin Go Brath

toomevara wrote: »

It seems from the team sheet, and what I've been reading, that England are planning to strangle the Welsh, and try to stop stop them playing...Thats when they seem to flourish (RWC 2007 stylee)...England tend to be at their best when playing negative rugby so who knows, but tbh, under the ELV's and given that the Welsh are at least as fit and athletic in the tight five, if not more so than the English, I can't see past Wales, unless, that is, they suffer some sort of catastrophic implosion....

Spot on analysis. Wales will be relishing this one, especially because its in Cardiff. They could do a number on England today if they set themselves out right.

Diabhal Beag

Shane Williams is a massive blow alright. I think Wales will win by 5 points

juvenal

Glad to see that Johnson insisted the roof be open here - I personally believe that the roof should always be opened one hour before the game, irrespective of the weather, unless there is a danger to the players on the field of play (lightning etc.).

I think England are going to play a very forward orientated game, with the backline of Sackey, Cueto & Armitage living off scraps or the odd turnover. I expect to see a lot of kicking from Goode, and a lot of pick-and-go from the pack. England want to try and drag Wales into a dogfight, as they know that they will not beat them in an open game of free-flowing rugby.

Given the match-up, I expect Wales to be a little nervy perhaps, and they really need leadership and calm from their key players. They'll try and spread the ball wide and run England ragged, and in this respect they'll miss the Shane Williams threat. I still think they've more than enough in the tank to win, and their backrow will be key in how they play overall, but it won't be a roasting. If anything, I can see it being a bit like last weeks match in Edinburgh, without the concussions and errors!

Perhaps something like Wales 23 England 13

NickNolte

Can't wait for this.

• Beer - check
• Extended family sized packet of Tayto crisps - check

Let the game begin.

chupacabra

Hah did i just see Peter De Villiers in the crowd? Shouldnt he be back at home watching his own players in the super 14 today instead of coming all the ways up north for a game that wont really reflect much on their opponents in 2011.

Rattlehead_ie

Can't believe I'm going to say this but aaaaaaaah Come on England!

Trojan

Ditto - g'wan the Chariot.

Sherifu

England being bossed around so far. They need to tighten up their defence.

DS

Anyone got a stream?

juvenal

Yellow card for Mike Tindall. Kaplan not taking any prisoners.

Just sat down a few minutes ago. Is it just me or are Wales using their tactic of taking out tacklers with a decoy runner. Keep an eye out for off the ball contact instigated by Welsh players, it was rife last week in Edinburgh.

Micky Dolenz

DS wrote: »

Anyone got a stream?

http://www.rte.ie/live/index.html

Sherifu

Sin binning for England

juvenal

Halfpenny puts over the penalty from the England 10m line (good for the fantasy team!)

22mins Wales 9 England 0

Rattlehead_ie

Try England.Nice lil chip from goode and sacky up the line to score!That'll help my fantasy team :-)
Missed conversion

juvenal

Try England - Sackey in the corner after Goode's kick ahead. Great break by Flutey to gain yardage, quick ball and nice chip by Goode. Sat up nicely for Sackey (another fantasy pick!)

Goode pulls conversion to the left, poor kick.

25mins: Wales 9 England 5. Great score to get with 14 men.

NickNolte

Good try for England. Terrible missed conversion from Goode. That could cost them.

Sherifu

Very very nice. The Japanese drink gets in!

NickNolte

Sherifu wrote: »

The Japanese drink gets in!

Boo! Get off the stage!

Rattlehead_ie

Goode Drop Goal 1 point in it

juvenal

Fine drop goal from Goode there, England definitely getting into the game and playing decent.

30mins: Wales 9 England 8.

Will the Welsh nerves start to kick in? The crowd are rather subdued now.

Davei141

Engerland Engerland Engerland Engerland Engerland Engerland Engerland Engerland.

I can actually see them nicking this, as **** as they are.

Chucky the tree

Goode should start doing what the 7's players do and take drop goals for his conversions.

Rattlehead_ie

Yes I am biast, but think you can agree he shoulda gone off for 10 for that, he didnt even attempt to go for the ball!

Ref only reffing Wales. Halfpenny should of been spoken too for that, u can't tackle the man when you are lying on the ground.

juvenal

Was it just me or was Sackey absolutely taken out as he went to tackle Phillips over on the far touchline? England's defence is pretty decent so far.

Some of Wales cynical play isn't being picked up by Kaplan at all. He pinged Tindall and gave him 10 for slowing the ball down, and yet there are numerous examples of Welsh players taking out England defenders off the ball, and preventing them tackling the ball carrier - it's almost like an American Football line of scrimmage!

Half-time: Wales 9 England 8

Stev_o

Wales bottling at the moment probably the sign that they aren't as good as they bloody well think (arrogant tossers in my view), Worsley is MoTM material at the moment he's destroying Wales huge runners. Come on England beat them and make them realise they aren't world beaters.

Rattlehead_ie

juvenal wrote: »

Was it just me or was Sackey absolutely taken out as he went to tackle Phillips over on the far touchline? England's defence is pretty decent so far.

Some of Wales cynical play isn't being picked up by Kaplan at all. He pinged Tindall and gave him 10 for slowing the ball down, and yet there are numerous examples of Welsh players taking out England defenders off the ball, and preventing them tackling the ball carrier - it's almost like an American Football line of scrimmage!

Half-time: Wales 9 England 8

Couldnt agree with you more, the same ol cynical (but we'll get away with it) **** from Wales, that'll probably win them the championship again. Wales are still the more dangerous team but if England can hold their defence and pick away at them, it'll be a good game

juvenal

Looking at that again, Armitage already had the ball, so it shows how late Byrne was. He was lucky to stay on the pitch in fairness.

It seems that the fall has to be really spectacular to warrant a yellow card, rather with the potential danger involved in taking a player out in the air. It should be a yellow for taking the player out, irrespective of the subsequent fall or injury. Byrne could've easily gotten out of the way or slowed down there, but wasn't looking up. The onus of responsibility has to be on the player who is second to the ball, otherwise players will be going up and half-anticipating getting taken out in mid-air.

juvenal

And then Sackey gets taken down with a forearm tackle across the neck from the restart!Wtf :eek:

Another sin-binning for England, the refereeing is so one-sided it is disgraceful. Granted, Wales were on the 5m line, but in fairness to Goode he was on his feet for several seconds before someone else put him off his feet. Hardly the crime of the century.