Financial Regulator gets 600K payoff.

JonathanAnon

Just listening to Pat Kenny there. Has Shane Ross on with him at the moment.
Turns out that the Financial Regulator Pat Neary got 200K payoff to step down, and additional 600K golden handshake, with a pension of 140K every year for the rest of his life. Is there no end to this lunacy, does the government realise that ordinary people have to work for years to put this money into the state ????

mike65

*shruggs*

A clip round the ear would be cheaper and yet would be a criminal offence, while Pat Neary has of course done nothing wrong

jmayo

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Just listening to Pat Kenny there. Has Shane Ross on with him at the moment.
Turns out that the Financial Regulator Pat Neary got 200K payoff to step down, and additional 600K golden handshake, with a pension of 140K every year for the rest of his life. Is there no end to this lunacy, does the government realise that ordinary people have to work for years to put this money into the state ????

Jonathan how long have you lived here, all you life perhaps ?
Haven't you figured it out yet ?
We don't do responsibility, especially at our top levels be it in public or lately in private sector financial institutions.
It doesn't matter how much you screw up, you deserve your lump sum payment and your fat pension. It is the rules.

Perhaps you even get another public salary along with your fat pension if you were a good boy and didn't screw up.
It is our role as taxpayers to make sure they have the money to give to these departing employees.

Tis a great little country we have :rolleyes:

ednwireland

jmayo wrote: »

Tis a great little country we havehad :rolleyes:

fixed that for you
great when i came here in 1997 ruined in 11 years by FF

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

*shruggs*

A clip round the ear would be cheaper and yet would be a criminal offence, while Pat Neary has of course done nothing wrong

Nothing "wrong", maybe, but he didn't do his job - what he was paid to do!

So he should be fired, with no payoff and a miniscule pension at best.

Darsad

Cowen should be seen to stand up and publicly state that we cannot afford to pay him this money regardless of Nearys contract.
Was Cowen not the one who said everything was for renegotation , let Neary sue the state if he feels hard done by he apparantly still has his €140,000 a year pension. Cowen would getr more support from the public if he was seen to stand up take take some decisive action.

yop

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Nothing "wrong", maybe, but he didn't do his job - what he was paid to do!

So he should be fired, with no payoff and a miniscule pension at best.

That is the crux of it, he was appointed to do a job of oversee the financial institutes. Did he do this job??

I dont think he did his job. So why does he get a pay off?
Why does his pension need to be so high?

This place is a fking joke. It gets worse and worse by the day.

Liam Byrne

jmayo wrote: »

Perhaps you even get another public salary along with your fat pension if you were a good boy and didn't screw up.

"Fixed" that there for you, jmayo......that last bit doesn't even come into it! :mad:

marcsignal

yop wrote: »

This place is a fking joke. It gets worse and worse by the day.

+1

honesty is the road to poverty, it would seem :mad:

gurramok

As well as having a 'crackdown' on excessive bank boss bonuses, there should be a clampdown on regulator bonuses as well, not just the financial one but the likes of Comreg and electricity one comes to mind.

Sounds like an old boys club, you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours.

jimmmy

yop wrote: »

This place is a fking joke. It gets worse and worse by the day.

I agree. Its very disheartening for the ordinary person who has worked hard, maybe 60 hours a week, and taken calculated risks, and is now left with damn all income, no pension....
Its not fair.

PeakOutput

yop wrote: »

That is the crux of it, he was appointed to do a job of oversee the financial institutes. Did he do this job??

I dont think he did his job. .

and your qualified to judge that how exactly?

he messed up in a fairly big way but the amount of attention he is getting is a joke. he did his job well for years in the banks and then he was offered this job he would not of taken a contract that was not beneficial to him (no1 would) the governement gave him the contract they should honor it

as i said in another thread the banks were one(admittedly) big part of his job insurance companies were the other and he has done a very good job regulating the insurance industry so should he be given no recognition for this? maybe if it was judged that 50% of his job was banks and 50% was insurance he did crap with banks good with insurance so he should gethalf his payoff? would you be happy then?

600K is nothing in the grand scheme of things. he did not help any of the under hand ealings that were going on happen he was not directly involved himself. as has been saidnumerous timeswhat he i getting stick for(these loans) are not illegal so even if he knew about them would he be able to do anything about it? they just happened to come to light because of the state the banks were in and he is now a convenient scapegoat for everyone to vent their frustration on imo

gurramok

PeakOutput, a devastating housing bubble which has crippled the banking system occurred under his watch and he did nothing since the day he was appointed to prevent that.

Thats the source of justified anger.

PeakOutput

gurramok wrote: »

PeakOutput, a devastating housing bubble which has crippled the banking system occurred under his watch and he did nothing since the day he was appointed to prevent that.

Thats the source of justified anger.

banking systems world wide are crippled did he cripple those too?

people should be angry yes but focusing on this one person is a joke he is symptom not the cause

yop

PeakOutput wrote: »

banking systems world wide are crippled did he cripple those too?

people should be angry yes but focusing on this one person is a joke he is symptom not the cause

Focusing on the man who was in the position to monitor the institutes who have ruined our Country.

As for been qualified, my dog can see that this man did not do his job,

Have a look at their site:
http://www.financialregulator.ie/frame_main.asp?pg=%2Fabout%5Fus%2Fau%5Fwelc%2Easp&nv=%2Fabout%5Fus%2Fau%5Fnav%2Easp

"The Financial Regulator is responsible for the regulation of all financial services firms in Ireland. It also has an important role in the protection of the consumers of those firms."

By allowing banks to lend stupid money to builders and not seeing the carry on in Anglo Irish then he has failed in his role.
The lack of protection by the regulator now means us, the consumers, are now going to be laden with his lackings.

I am not going to justify it to be honest, look at any job, its spec'd out and if you dont do it you get sacked or get a serious slap on the hands.

You are not allowed to resign keep an immoral pension and get an immoral pay off.

markpb

PeakOutput wrote: »

people should be angry yes but focusing on this one person is a joke he is symptom not the cause

No-one is saying he is single handedly responsible but he is _responsible_. His job was to watch the banks to make sure they behaved. They didn't therefore he didn't do his job (in this instance). If he wasn't willing to accept responsibility, he shouldn't have taken the job. You can't have it both ways, people at the top in Ireland think you can.

highgiant1985

gurramok wrote: »

PeakOutput, a devastating housing bubble which has crippled the banking system occurred under his watch and he did nothing since the day he was appointed to prevent that.

Thats the source of justified anger.

but what could he have done?

gurramok

I do not think you understand. the Irish housing bubble is a domestic issue which has crippled our banks, its been(and has been) exacerbated by the international financial crisis.

From memory Patrick Neary was appointed in 2003. It was about from that date onwards that the worst practices of reckless lending to developers/homebuyers occurred in the Irish banking system and nothing was done.

The latest Anglo Irish saga of hiding director loans forced the issue and the man resigned in disgrace.

gurramok

highgiant1985 wrote: »

but what could he have done?

Regulate bad lending practices?

As in my post above, nothing was done to stop the banks(all of them) over exposing themselves to property lending hence the mess we are in.

markpb

highgiant1985 wrote: »

but what could he have done?

He could have put tighter controls over lending by the banks, stopped them giving out 8x or 10x for mortgages or stopped them including expected bonuses, payrises, etc in the salary calculations. This would have kept prices lower because people wouldn't be able to borrow larger amounts.

Willie O'Dea said on the radio this morning that a light regulation approach was what we adopted and, with hindsight, that was wrong. It wasn't hindsight - banks are critical to our economy and having self regulation as the only regulation was negligent and naive.

Documents suggest that his office knew about the loans to the chairman of Anglo several years before they became public knowledge. If his office had been run properly, those loans would have been disclosed earlier.

Pat Neary in his position as regulator was weak and ineffective
Pat Neary in his position as the head of the office of the IFSRA was ineffective.

jmayo

I always laugh now when I see TV ads or hear radio ads for some financial package or other, when at the end they state "they are regulated by the IFSRA".

They might as well just say we are regulated by Mickey Mouse while Donald Duck is on holdiays. It would make as much sense.

Pure joke of an entity at this stage.
Were most of their staff on secondment from Anglo by any chance ?

nesf

gurramok wrote: »

I do not think you understand. the Irish housing bubble is a domestic issue which has crippled our banks, its been(and has been) exacerbated by the international financial crisis.

It's debatable whether AIB and BoI could have not needed Government intervention if not for the international crisis in the money markets.

Darsad

Dan Boyle Berties boy sorry senator & unelected member of government thinks its a disgrace too !


http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/?c=ireland&jp=mhsnidojqley

Nodin

Johanathonanon wrote:

Just listening to Pat Kenny there. Has Shane Ross on with him at the moment.
Turns out that the Financial Regulator Pat Neary got 200K payoff to step down, and additional 600K golden handshake, with a pension of 140K every year for the rest of his life. Is there no end to this lunacy, does the government realise that ordinary people have to work for years to put this money into the state ????

What kind of unsustainable socialist-communist-manifesto talk is that, Johnathan? He's quality people. They don't suffer consequences.

PeakOutput wrote:

600K is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Thats true. However, to us ordinary folk, who can get fecked out for not doing our job, and would not be getting paid off for the privelege, its an awful lot. Its an even larger amount, considering the events unfolding as mentioned in this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055467603

I don't think he's to blame for everything, and indeed there'll have to be an examination of the remit of the office, to make sure that it could have prevented some of the practices that went on. But paying that amount out in the face of abject failure is just taking the piss.

Sand

but what could he have done?

He could have done the job he was paid to do. He didnt. And yet, hes not held accountable. When there is such outrages about bonuses in the private sector, heres a man who should have been *sacked*.

But that doesnt matter. When you get to those jobs its pure cronyism and jobs for the boys, all at the publics expense.

The scary thing is there has been no change in outlook - Anglo Irish and Irish Permament have colluded to decieve the government, the market and the shareholders of Anglo Irish by "fixing" the books of Anglo Irish - bulking up the balance sheet for a few days to make things look better than they were in actuality.

And this is not a problem apparently. This is how terrible the financial regulator is. And this message is communicated to the international market and terrifies them - how can they trust the books and figures of any major Irish financial institution when Irish banks are colluding in wilful deceit of shareholders and the financial regulator doesnt do anything about it? This is killing Ireland and Irish business. Killing it because no one is going to pump money into a business when theyre effectively being lied to as regards the true position. The financial regulator and the government ought to be crucifying the people responsible to communicate to everyone that this isnt acceptable in Ireland, that it isnt business as usual in Ireland. Fianna Fails typical cronyism is the worst possible response.

So yeah, the financial regulator should shamed and its an absolute disgrace that he was allowed to retire, a disgrace hes getting this golden parachute whilst others are getting the sack or taking pay cuts and it will be a disgrace if Fianna Fail - who have done absolutely nothing to demonstrate they actually grasp whats going on - are ever elected into power in Ireland again.

J.S. Pill

Headline on Independent today: Bank watchdog gets €630k secret payoff.

See here

My question is what exactly made this payment secret?

This appears to be their reasoning

wrote:

"in his resignation statement, Mr Neary made no mention of the fact he would be paid for the outstanding time remaining on his contract."

The payment may have been morally unjust but to suggest it was underhanded on the front page of a national newspaper is stretching it a bit.

nesf

J.S. Pill wrote: »

The payment may have been morally unjust but to suggest it was underhanded on the front page of a national newspaper is stretching it a bit.

Pfft but the full truth never sells newspapers..

JonathanAnon

I've read through the comments, and I'm not naive in my original question. I just find it very frustrating that in such hard times people are being rewarded for poor performance and there have been a few very high profile cases of this recently.

I feel more like jumping off a bridge than working another day to put money back into the state to waste on Pat Neary's payoff and pension, Rody Molloy's payoff and pension, paying for Beverly Flynn's court costs from her failed case against RTE (they should have bankrupted her), paying for Bertie appointed senators like Eoghan Harris, Sean Fitzpatrick's shenanigans... I will leave this list open... Man, I'm depressed, can I claim back the VAT on Zoloft?

Nodin

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I've read through the comments, and I'm not naive in my original question. I just find it very frustrating that in such hard times people are being rewarded for poor performance and there have been a few very high profile cases of this recently.

A world wide phenomena. Seemingly the first thing you do when you get to the top level is to negotiate a contract that 100% guarantees a soft landing.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I feel more like jumping off a bridge than working another day to put money back into the state to waste on Pat Neary's payoff and pension, Rody Molloy's payoff and pension, paying for Beverly Flynn's court costs from her failed case against RTE (they should have bankrupted her), paying for Bertie appointed senators like Eoghan Harris, Sean Fitzpatrick's shenanigans... I will leave this list open... Man, I'm depressed, can I claim back the VAT on Zoloft?

Don't jump off a bridge unless you're sure to land on one of the above.

DARKIZE

yop wrote: »

That is the crux of it, he was appointed to do a job of oversee the financial institutes. Did he do this job??

I dont think he did his job. So why does he get a pay off?
Why does his pension need to be so high?

This place is a fking joke. It gets worse and worse by the day.

Neary actually got exactly what he was entitled to as a public-service employee after 40 year's service; lump-sum based on his final salary (75% I believe), pension based on final salary and linked to future increases in his grade, and a "sweetner" of 8 months salary as compensation for chucking in 2 year's early (dunno why he got that bit though). Pay & pensions are not linked to performance in the PS, so his entitlement is in no way compromised by his incompetence.

Be interested to see if the PS unions come out now and suggest that pensions should be capped, or pay linked to performance. Is there a blue moon tonight ???

Liam Byrne

highgiant1985 wrote: »

but what could he have done?

Whatever he was being paid a fortune to do. Presumably he's the expert, if he's on that kind of money ?

Liam Byrne

DARKIZE wrote: »

Pay & pensions are not linked to performance in the PS, so his entitlement is in no way compromised by his incompetence.

Unfortunately not, but in a scenario where all normal people who have paid into pensions are watching them evaporate, seeing one of the idiots involved - and one who was specifically paid to help stop that happen - get a guaranteed, fixed-amount pension is sickening. :mad:

aassddff

Seems he knew about the €7bn in deposits by Irish Life & Permanent into Anglo Irish Bank just before the end of that bank's accounting year.

Surely he should be held to account in some way for not informing his handlers on this one

Darragh29

The guy should be marched up to the top floor of the Central Bank building and f*cked off the highest brick on Dame Street with his 600K golden handshake strapped to his ankles...

Tony Broke

He should be doing time, this is sickening.

Darragh29

Tony Broke wrote: »

He should be doing time, this is sickening.

It's an absolute f*ckin disgrace, the man wake up in the morning to a cop car outside his house and be carried out of the house in handcuffs...

nesf

Guys, calm it down.

thebman

This is exactly what needs to change in Irish politics and I think there are enough people focusing on it for it to happen at last so hopefully we can actually this change in Irish politics, we just need to keep applying pressure via the media and any other outlet that kind of behaviour is wrong and unacceptable.

lostexpectation

lenihan said hte regulartor was going to report this... when, this happened a months ago.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

Guys, calm it down.

nesf, I think the big problem is we are too calm.
As mentioned on another thread recently, no wonder it took 700 odd years to kick the English out if this is what we are like.

The sooner Irish people start chasing a few of these people out of office and down the street the better for our country. And I do literally mean chasing.
Instead they get a pay off from the Exchequer, a fat pension or get to saunder around playing golf with their buddies.

Anyone know how treason is defined in this country of ours ?

If somebody does say we take action like that, all we get is the inevitable reply that we shouldn't be ruled by tabloid headlines and degenerate into mob rule.
Well maybe a bit of mob rule is what is needed at this stage.

Our parliamentary democracy is now a sham.
The government consult interest groups when making decisons rather than democratically elected public representatives.
The government and ruling parties do not divulge to the people when gross misconduct has been carried out and they set up bills to affectively cover tracks of misconduct.

This government was not given mandate to divert huge chunks of our future tax revenue to affectively saving a financial institution run by it's supporters and friends, in order to save more of it's supporters who happen to be developers.

How many more revelations are going to come out about incompetence in the higher ranks of public services?
How many more golden parachutes for the Molloys, the Nearys of this country's public services ?

How many more revelations are going to come out that one bank helped another bank manipulate their end of year figures by moving large sums of money around ?
How many more bankers like Fitzpatrick, Drumm etc are going to saunder off after leaving the Irish taxpayers picking up the pieces for their deceit, insider dealings (as defined by laws in US etc) and manipulation of share markets ?

thebman wrote: »

This is exactly what needs to change in Irish politics and I think there are enough people focusing on it for it to happen at last so hopefully we can actually this change in Irish politics, we just need to keep applying pressure via the media and any other outlet that kind of behaviour is wrong and unacceptable.

We need to start doing more than just phoning up talk shows and posting on forums about our displeasure and annoyance.

I think we are reaching the point where we need to take to the streets and show the world that the Irish people are not a nation as defined by Messers Fitzpatrick, Drumm, Neary, Clowen, Lenihan and Ahern.

Yes I am angry and I think it's about time we all got angry.

As Yeats would have said we are still fumbling in a greasy till, except it is no longer for halfpence or pence but now for billions.

P. Breathnach

jmayo wrote: »

nesf, I think the big problem is we are too calm... Well maybe a bit of mob rule is what is needed at this stage.

I'd sooner have the present lot than the mob, especially if the mob is anything like the people in this forum who seem to think ranting is a substitute for acting. And I really don't like the present lot.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but we are seeing a lot of destructive criticism in this forum.

There is some point in ranting, if it enables people to let off steam. But once the ranting has been done, it is best followed with something along the lines of: "Okay, I've got that off my chest now; now let's have a cool-headed look at what needs to be done."

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd sooner have the present lot than the mob, especially if the mob is anything like the people in this forum who seem to think ranting is a substitute for acting. And I really don't like the present lot.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but we are seeing a lot of destructive criticism in this forum.

There is some point in ranting, if it enables people to let off steam. But once the ranting has been done, it is best followed with something along the lines of: "Okay, I've got that off my chest now; now let's have a cool-headed look at what needs to be done."

Grand, how do we stop job losses then??? How to we move to a position where next month, there are ZERO job losses??? This is the mission, how do you suggest that we achieve this objective???

jmayo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd sooner have the present lot than the mob, especially if the mob is anything like the people in this forum who seem to think ranting is a substitute for acting. And I really don't like the present lot.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but we are seeing a lot of destructive criticism in this forum.

There is some point in ranting, if it enables people to let off steam. But once the ranting has been done, it is best followed with something along the lines of: "Okay, I've got that off my chest now; now let's have a cool-headed look at what needs to be done."

Right then what do you, as a former public servant who is on defined benefit pension, think needs to be done ?

Why could the Financial Regulator have not been FIRED ?
FIRED for incompetence, let him go to labour court.
Why is he on an "Exclusivity payment" for the next few months ?
Who the hell else would want his services, Mugabe perhaps ?

Here is a suggestion, why not immediately enact a law that states former public servants MUST appear in front of Dáil Committees and ministers to answer questions ?

Why has the Fraud Squad and/or CAB not been investigating the dealings in Anglo ?
Why does the minister conveniently pass that option off by saying that the government cannot send them in to investigate as it is outside their control. Once again a government minister appears helpless and passes the buck.

To anyone and everyone, bar of course bankers themsleves, the dealings appear to have been misleading the owners (i.e. shareholders) and possible owners (i.e. investors).
The dealings appear to be bordering on fraud, but of course they were not illegal it appears by Irish law.

You appear to be of the mindset we should just calmly move along, let the government make a few suggestions about changes, all the while the public and the world's investors are wiating for the next scandal to come out.

If we do nothing to root this out, and to most of us that is what it appears the government's plan is, then we will not send out a message to our own future bankers/regulators and to the world that we, as a nation, do not condone this sh***.

The problem with the cooled headed approach is we just move along and here comes another drip feed of more shady goings on and then we move onto the next.
Remember the tribunals and one could ask how could FF be voted back in after all the revelations there.
Eventually the public just loose interest, unless of course maybe as in this case they are loosing their jobs and taking pay cuts.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

Grand, how do we stop job losses then??? How to we move to a position where next month, there are ZERO job losses??? This is the mission, how do you suggest that we achieve this objective???

I'm not going to get sucked into a silly argument, especially when it is a silly argument about something very important. I have taken part in several discussions about how we address our economic problems: my views are easily ascertainable.

There is no reasonable prospect that we can have zero job losses next month.

A good rant can have some therapeutic value; that apart, it achieves nothing.

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm not going to get sucked into a silly argument, especially when it is a silly argument about something very important. I have taken part in several discussions about how we address our economic problems: my views are easily ascertainable.

There is no reasonable prospect that we can have zero job losses next month.

A good rant can have some therapeutic value; that apart, it achieves nothing.

That's the type of defeatist attitude that simply doesn't survive in the end of the private sector that I am engaged in. How come I can create 10 new jobs over the next three months but you say that there is basically nothing that can be done about this economic situation???

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

That's the type of defeatist attitude that simply doesn't survive in the end of the private sector that I am engaged in. How come I can create 10 new jobs over the next three months but you say that there is basically nothing that can be done about this economic situation???

I suppose it doesn't matter that I didn't say that. Just keep on ranting.

Dannyboy83

Banking Supervision
Credit Institutions should address queries related to supervision to
E-mail: bsdadmin@financialregulator.ie
Tel: (01) 410 4184
Fax: (01) 671 1370





Do you think those emails actually go anywhere?


Probably going into a blackhole

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

nesf, I think the big problem is we are too calm.
As mentioned on another thread recently, no wonder it took 700 odd years to kick the English out if this is what we are like.

Comments about throwing people off the top of buildings will not be tolerated here. This is a forum for debate, not the kind of rants that encourage violence against people.

thebman

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd sooner have the present lot than the mob, especially if the mob is anything like the people in this forum who seem to think ranting is a substitute for acting. And I really don't like the present lot.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but we are seeing a lot of destructive criticism in this forum.

There is some point in ranting, if it enables people to let off steam. But once the ranting has been done, it is best followed with something along the lines of: "Okay, I've got that off my chest now; now let's have a cool-headed look at what needs to be done."

Great step one.

Political donations are poison to our system. Why do we tolerate them?

The government is doing everything in its power to bend over to the will of developers who have given them money and it is now seriously damaging the future of the country.

Why are we letting invested interests tell out government what to do?

There is no reason why political parties can't run on taxpayers money even if that means increasing taxes to cover the costs. There are a few problems you'd need to iron out but nothing that we couldn't overcome.

The current system is legal corruption.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

Comments about throwing people off the top of buildings will not be tolerated here. This is a forum for debate, not the kind of rants that encourage violence against people.

Did I state anywhere we should throw anyone off the tops of buildings ?
Although now that you mention it

BTW do you have children ?
Becuase if you do they ain't going to have much of a future in this country with the way things are going.

As I stated already we have this drip drip of squalid actions, with our government telling us they can either do nothing about the situation, it is not their fault or they are working really hard on this and it seems deserve gratitude :rolleyes:
They so damm well paid it is time they earned it.

Yet we see nothing but scandal after scandal coming out, added to the fact the ones that have dragged our entire ecomony to the brink of disaster are not sanctioned, but infact rewarded .

Do you think that other countries' populations would take this sh*** ?

It will take years for Ireland to recover form this.
The reputation of this country as a place to invest is shot to sh**.
And not one person involved in all this has the balls to stand up and say sorry I fu**ed up.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

Did I state anywhere we should throw anyone off the tops of buildings ?
Although now that you mention it

Nope, but if you read the post two posts up from my request for people to calm down you'll see someone doing just that.

jmayo wrote: »

BTW do you have children ?
Becuase if you do they ain't going to have much of a future in this country with the way things are going.

Yes I do have a kid. My personal politics are one of fiscal conservatism precisely because I don't believe we should leave a large public debt for our kids to clean up after us. It also motivates why I think we need major pension reform and an increase in the age where you're automatically entitled to draw the State pension.

But my views are unusual in this country and there is no party which holds such fiscal restraint as a core tenet and none have convinced me that they'd actually stand up to the unions in this country and batter our public expenditure back to a reasonable level vis a vis our tax take.