Tractor driver banned for one year for holding up traffic

Gregor Samsa

This could set an interesting precedent:

AN "ARROGANT" farmer who held up a convoy of 20 cars as he drove his tractor home from a cattle mart has been banned for driving for one year.

In what could be an historic prosecution, the farmer, who was called "arrogant and individualistic" by a District Court judge, was told: "You don't have the right to force other people to drive at 15 miles per hour."

Full article here: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/road-ban-for-tractor-traffic-jam-farmer-1635180.html

Seth Brundle

Woo hoo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwEMxYggoKQ

However, cue posts complaining about someone driving at 80km/h in a 100km/h zone!

voxpop

About time!

I heard some old bat on newstalk defending the farmer by first saying that it is too dangerous to pull in and then blaming the cars behind for not overtaking :rolleyes:

Drummerboy08

Not only was he being arrogant, but driving like that is as dangerous, if not more dangerous than driving above the speed limit.

Delighted for him. Sure dont you know he'll still be drivin around the roads in his 93 Izuzu Trooper covered in cow sh*t with is cap on and one arm out the window....:rolleyes:

Mena

voxpop wrote: »

About time!

I heard some old bat on newstalk defending the farmer by first saying that it is too dangerous to pull in and then blaming the cars behind for not overtaking :rolleyes:

Heard the same thing, couldn't believe her attitude. As mentioned above, it's high time something was done about this sort of carry-on.

niceirishfella

Guys hauling Diggers/Dumpers with JCB Fasttracs are just as bad eventhough they have 40k gear boxes. No good if you can't get round them on back rounds and the funkers never seem to pull in.

unkel

Yeah heard that 'aul one too on newstalk :rolleyes:

A Garda formed the opinion that the farmer could have easily pulled in on several occasions. The farmer didn't pull in and the Garda fined him for undue consideration to other road users. The farmer refused to pay the fine, let it go to court and acted the arrogant pr!ck in front of the judge. That obviously made the judge feel particularly unsympathetic towards the farmer so he slapped him with the ban

Lesson learned for all the farmers out there. And I hasten to add that my experience is that most of them are considerate and do pull in when they can do so safely...

BnA

I think that's shocking. He's on the road driving as fast as the Tractor can go.

If he was only doing 15 miles an hour then it would have been p1ss easy to get past him. IMO, it was the gobdaws who were sitting in behind him that should be banned.

I doubt very much that the ban will be held up on appeal.

Cookie_Monster

Does that mean we can now flash and beep every tractor off the road whenever we encounter one

:D:D

Cookie_Monster

BnA wrote: »

If he was only doing 15 miles an hour then it would have been p1ss easy to get past him. IMO, it was the gobdaws who were sitting in behind him that should be banned.

Were you there, do you know the road conditions and oncoming traffic conditions

You can't expect people to overtake dangerously or unsighted just for the sake of it.

seanybiker

BnA wrote: »

I think that's shocking. He's on the road driving as fast as the Tractor can go.

If he was only doing 15 miles an hour then it would have been p1ss easy to get past him. IMO, it was the gobdaws who were sitting in behind him that should be banned.

I doubt very much that the ban will be held up on appeal.

+1

Drummerboy08

BnA wrote: »

I think that's shocking. He's on the road driving as fast as the Tractor can go.

If he was only doing 15 miles an hour then it would have been p1ss easy to get past him. IMO, it was the gobdaws who were sitting in behind him that should be banned.

I doubt very much that the ban will be held up on appeal.

What happens if it was on a windy road, where it was possible to do more than 15mph in a car, but not possible to overtake due to blind corners etc?

Driving at the speed, with a convoy of cars behind you will only encourage someone to try and overtake dangerously and possibly cause and accident.

I think he deserves it. If someone is stuck behind me, i always pull in to let them by, rather than risking them stuck up my hole trying to overtake me.

Common sense - something which this fella obviously had none of.

Zube

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Common sense - something which this fella obviously had none of.

Common sense also says don't stand up and act the mickey in court: judges don't take kindly to it.

Drummerboy08

Zube wrote: »

Common sense also says don't stand up and act the mickey in court: judges don't take kindly to it.

+ 1 on that one.

pburns

BnA wrote: »

I think that's shocking. He's on the road driving as fast as the Tractor can go.

If he was only doing 15 miles an hour then it would have been p1ss easy to get past him. IMO, it was the gobdaws who were sitting in behind him that should be banned.

I doubt very much that the ban will be held up on appeal.

That's culchie bullcrap.

I'm from a farming background and applaud this guy being sanctioned. I remember a few years ago being held up for MILES behind a tractor on the way back from Galway. The roads and volume of traffic in opposite direction meant it took ages for each car in the queue to find safe space to overtake.

mike65

Best thing I've heard on the news today, more commen sense coppering please!

BnA

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Were you there, do you know the road conditions and oncoming traffic conditions

You can't expect people to overtake dangerously or unsighted just for the sake of it.

No I wasn't there, were you...?

If it was a narrow windy road, I find it very difficult to believe that he passed 6 places where it was genuinely possible to pull in a tractor pulling a cattle trailer.

Remember, he did actually pull in, when he found a suitable spot. So he was actually looking out for somewhere to pull in.

To me, it sounds like the Guard was being the arrogant twat, not the farmer.

On a side note, maybe he should get one of these,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w

maidhc

pburns wrote: »

I'm from a farming background and applaud this guy being sanctioned. I remember a few years ago being held up for MILES behind a tractor on the way back from Galway. The roads and volume of traffic in opposite direction meant it took ages for each car in the queue to find safe space to overtake.

I regularly drive a tractor on the road and agree with you. There are too many arrogant, ignorant, and plain thick tractor drivers out there, especially during the silage season when every 16yo in the countryside gets behind the wheel of a €100,000, 10 ton (unladen) projectile.

BnA

pburns wrote: »

That's culchie bullcrap.

I'm from a farming background and applaud this guy being sanctioned. I remember a few years ago being held up for MILES behind a tractor on the way back from Galway. The roads and volume of traffic in opposite direction meant it took ages for each car in the queue to find safe space to overtake.

What did you expect the tractor driver to do ?

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

Drummerboy08

BnA wrote: »

No I wasn't there, were you...?

If it was a narrow windy road, I find it very difficult to believe that he passed 6 places where it was genuinely possible to pull in a tractor pulling a cattle trailer.

Remember, he did actually pull in, when he found a suitable spot. So he was actually looking out for somewhere to pull in.

To me, it sounds like the Guard was being the arrogant twat, not the farmer.

On a side note, maybe he should get one of these,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w

But why would a Guard risk his career to testify in court that the farmer had passed six suitable spots to pull in?

He probably only pulled in after the guards used blues and sirens.

Mena

BnA wrote: »

If it was a narrow windy road, I find it very difficult to believe that he passed 6 places where it was genuinely possible to pull in a tractor pulling a cattle trailer.

You may find it hard to believe, but the Garda gave the evidence and the court believed said evidence. Is it your position that the court was lied to and as such the Garda committed perjury?

Cionád

BnA wrote: »

What did you expect the tractor driver to do ?

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58108838&postcount=12

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote: »

What did you expect the tractor driver to do ?

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

YES HE CAN
Christ - would people stop making it all up as they go along!

vantasic

bet the guard was a c*** anyway, they all are...



..I hope one reads this........c***.......

Mena

vantasic wrote: »

bet the guard was a c*** anyway, they all are...



..I hope one reads this........c***.......

Until you need one...

He was doing his job, rightly so, no cause for gross generalisations.

Drummerboy08

vantasic wrote: »

bet the guard was a c*** anyway, they all are...



..I hope one reads this........c***.......

Thats a nice attitude you've got yourself there.

Seth Brundle

vantasic wrote: »

bet the guard was a c*** anyway, they all are...



..I hope one reads this........c***.......

Goodbye!
Banned for trolling!
If you ever wish to use the motors forums again then PM me and maybe I'll reconsider!

Tipsy Mac

BnA wrote: »

What did you expect the tractor driver to do ?

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

+1
If he was on a motorway and doing that speed theres a law against it. I was under the impression you could drive as slow as you wanted on any road besides a motorway. Whats next a hearse getting pulled over for going too slow.

biko

Yay, Judge Devins I salute you.

BnA

Mena wrote: »

You may find it hard to believe, but the Garda gave the evidence and the court believed said evidence. Is it your position that the court was lied to and as such the Garda committed perjury?

That's a fair point.

But I still find it very hard to believe that on a road there were 6 possible places for a tractor and trailer to pull in but there wasn't one place suitable for a car to pass out a tractor doing 15mph. I think the cars that were behind him have to answer for it too.

And even if, and it's a big if, he did pass 6 places to pull in and there was no available chance for any of the cars behind him to pull out, then one year off the road is way over the top.

He didn't break any specific rule of the road. I know driving with undue car and attention was probably used, but this is very grey. Where do you draw the line with this. What about an aul' granny scutterin' along at 30mph. Should she get a year off the road ? What about a Learner dirver who holds everyone up for 2 minutes at a round about while they grip the wheel in a fit of terror. What should they get.... 2 years ?

mike65

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

+1
If he was on a motorway and doing that speed theres a law against it. I was under the impression you could drive as slow as you wanted on any road besides a motorway

Driving too slow can be considered a hazard.

Whats next a hearse getting pulled over for going too slow

That I'd like to see frankly, sounds harsh but Irish roads are not like 30 years ago (obviously!), a funeral march along an N route is madness and yet still happens.

Seth Brundle

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

+1
If he was on a motorway and doing that speed theres a law against it. I was under the impression you could drive as slow as you wanted on any road besides a motorway. Whats next a hearse getting pulled over for going too slow.

You have to have consideration for all others using the road which this driver clearly wasn't. Common sense would also suggest that if you are doing 15 mph (haven't we gone metric?) you would pull over to let traffic pass. The arrogance shown by the driver within the courtroom was presumably in force when driving his MF 135!

F-Stop

BnA wrote: »

I think the cars that were behind him have to answer for it too.

Answer for what? Being held up by a tractor doing 15mph and not pulling in? Not being able to safely overtake? Not taking dangerous risks?

BnA

kbannon wrote: »

YES HE CAN
Christ - would people stop making it all up as they go along!

No he can't.

He can pull in to let a car off. But if you have ever driven a tractor on a road like this, you would know that this is a waste of time. You pull in to let one off, and you won't get out again.

Victor_M

BnA wrote: »

No he can't.

He can pull in to let a car off. But if you have ever driven a tractor on a road like this, you would know that this is a waste of time. You pull in to let one off, and you won't get out again.

So he can in other words. He just didn't want to as it would inconvenience his progress. I presume you can see the irony in this.

F-Stop

BnA wrote: »

You pull in to let one off, and you won't get out again.

Ah, I see. That would be arrogance they were referring to then.

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote: »

But I still find it very hard to believe that on a road there were 6 possible places for a tractor and trailer to pull in but there wasn't one place suitable for a car to pass out a tractor doing 15mph. I think the cars that were behind him have to answer for it too.

There could have been a number of reasons (solid white lines, bends, etc.). We don't know but this doesn't appear to have been mentioned by the farmer so we can forget about it!

BnA wrote: »

And even if, and it's a big if, he did pass 6 places to pull in and there was no available chance for any of the cars behind him to pull out, then one year off the road is way over the top.

Why? He was obviously a right prick behind the wheel for this to have gone all the way to court! There is too much tolerance of bad driving on our roads - its about time there was some proper enforcement in this area.

BnA wrote: »

He didn't break any specific rule of the road. I know driving with undue car and attention was probably used, but this is very grey. Where do you draw the line with this. What about an aul' granny scutterin' along at 30mph. Should she get a year off the road ? What about a Learner dirver who holds everyone up for 2 minutes at a round about while they grip the wheel in a fit of terror. What should they get.... 2 years ?

The rules of the road are not the law. He broke the law by not driving with due care and attention (by not driving with consideration for others).
A granny (or anyone) driving at 30mph may be grounds if said granny does not show regard for others on the road. Its only fair enough. Conversly, is it appropriate for someone to do 100km/h (but not breaking the speed limit) along a road where there is lots of traffic driving slowly? No- you show due care! As for the learner driver, they should have the sense to not drive in busy traffic if they get into fits of terror. A genuine mistake such as stalling would not incur the wrath of the law.

Robbo

BnA wrote: »

No he can't.

He can pull in to let a car off. But if you have ever driven a tractor on a road like this, you would know that this is a waste of time. You pull in to let one off, and you won't get out again.

Could that possibly be due to creating a long and irate queue of motorists?

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote: »

No he can't.

He can pull in to let a car off. But if you have ever driven a tractor on a road like this, you would know that this is a waste of time. You pull in to let one off, and you won't get out again.

Thats different - you originally said that he wasn't allowed. Now you are saying that he doesn't want to because he may not get out again. make up your mind!

BnA

F-Stop wrote: »

Answer for what? Being held up by a tractor doing 15mph and not pulling in? Not being able to safely overtake? Not taking dangerous risks?

Look. I wasn't there and neither were you.

I am just venturing that I think if there were 6 places big enough to pull in a tractor and trailer then I would think that there were also ample chances to pass him out. In which case, the cars behind him would have to answer for not taking them.

But maybe there wasn't. I don't know the road.

I have often found when driving or rural roads you come up behind a line of cars behind a Tractor and Trailer, the reason it has built up is because some twat has sat in behind the tractor too terrified to pass it out.

Just for the record, I certainly don't agree with don't Troller. I have the utmost respect for the Guards.

Cookie_Monster

vantasic wrote: »

bet the guard was a c*** anyway, they all are...



..I hope one reads this........c***.......

While I in no way agree with what you said it still made me laugh

well done:D

BnA

kbannon wrote: »

Thats different - you originally said that he wasn't allowed. Now you are saying that he doesn't want to because he may not get out again. make up your mind!

No I didn't.

You can pull in to let a vehicle off. But if you do so, in a slow moving vehicle on a busy road, you are not going to be able to retake your proper position on the road safely, so you will end up stuck in the hard shoulder.

I have driven tractors on busy roads, and personally if there's a hard shoulder there, I would always drive in it. But if I was to be involved in an accident, whilst driving there, I would worry about where I would stand.

Cookie_Monster

mike65 wrote: »

That I'd like to see frankly, sounds harsh but Irish roads are not like 30 years ago (obviously!), a funeral march along an N route is madness and yet still happens.

+1 on this point

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote: »

Look. I wasn't there and neither were you.

I am just venturing that I think if there were 6 places big enough to pull in a tractor and trailer then I would think that there were also ample chances to pass him out. In which case, the cars behind him would have to answer for not taking them.

But maybe there wasn't. I don't know the road.

None of us were but the judge felt the garda's evidence was believable so I'm happy with that.
The six possible locations could have been areas in front of a house but at the same time on a twisty road meaning not enough length to pass a tractor but enough area for him to pull in and let people pass safely.

BnA wrote: »

I have often found when driving or rural roads you come up behind a line of cars behind a Tractor and Trailer, the reason it has built up is because some twat has sat in behind the tractor too terrified to pass it out.

Agreed but that doesn't appear to be the case here. A situation like that still doesn't remove a duty from the leading driver to let people pass shoult the possibility arise.

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote: »

No I didn't.

eh, yes you did:

BnA wrote: »

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

BnA

Victor_M wrote: »

So he can in other words. He just didn't want to as it would inconvenience his progress. I presume you can see the irony in this.

You're talking about 2 different things here.

What I said RE pulling in and not being able to get back out on the road was in reference to busier roads with a hard shoulder.

woodseb

BnA wrote: »

And even if, and it's a big if, he did pass 6 places to pull in and there was no available chance for any of the cars behind him to pull out, then one year off the road is way over the top.

He didn't break any specific rule of the road. I know driving with undue car and attention was probably used, but this is very grey. Where do you draw the line with this. What about an aul' granny scutterin' along at 30mph. Should she get a year off the road ? What about a Learner dirver who holds everyone up for 2 minutes at a round about while they grip the wheel in a fit of terror. What should they get.... 2 years ?

i think you're missing the point here, he probably would have got a small censure for the offence but it looks like his attitude to the law and court meant he got a lengthy ban

Cookie_Monster

woodseb wrote: »

i think you're missing the point here, he probably would have got a small censure for the offence but it looks like his attitude to the law and court meant he got a lengthy ban

exactly

BnA

kbannon wrote: »

eh, yes you did:

Let me spell it out again.

1) It is against the rules of the road to drive on the hard shoulder.

2) You are venturing that, it is not against the rules of the road to pull into the hard shoulder to let traffic off.

3) I am telling you, that if you pull into the hard shoulder on a busy road in a slow moving vehicle, you will not be able to re-take your position on the road safely.

4) So that leaves you with 2 choices.

a) Drive continuously on the hard shoulder (See point 1)

b) Drive on the road.

BnA

woodseb wrote: »

i think you're missing the point here, he probably would have got a small censure for the offence but it looks like his attitude to the law and court meant he got a lengthy ban

Well, it certainly does sound like he didn't do himself any favours in there.

But I still think a one year ban is way ott.

roosterman71

BnA wrote: »

What did you expect the tractor driver to do ?

He's not allowed drive in the hard shoulder.

This is a shambles. He was probably going as fast as he could. And does he have to pull in to let people by? It sounds like a shambolic judgment to me.

I, being a farmer, often drive on the roads. I consider myself very courteous to other road users. However, on the main Dublin Limerick road outside of Roscrea, I was stopped by a guard for driving along the hard shoulder. It was a Friday evening and road was busy. I think he expected me to pull in and out of the hard shoulder when cars came behind me. That's just stupid. I got a warning (pre-points days).

On narrow back roads its different. Places to see to pull in might be hard to spot (gates to fields, etc). If he stopped outside a house you can be sure the owner wouldn't be best pleased either.

Common sense should win out here. Banning him for a year is stupid. There's responsibility on all road users in this situation. And some patience wouldn't go astray either.

Slow drivers are next for the chop. Learners on roads crawling at 20kmh too. You don't see these people pulling in if there's a queue forming. Drive any national route and one driver will cause a massive tailback. When are they going to be stopped?