Tile shop wont allow return of tiles

Puteq

Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this - I was getting a bathroom tiled recently, went to a tile shop, gave them the dimensions of the bathroom, and they advised me how many tiles i would need. I went ahead and bought them, but now that the jobs done i find myself with at least 2 mtr squared left over. The tile shop wont buy them back off me because they were some kind of special order tile (supposedly), however thats over 330 quid extra they told me to buy, which i didnt need! (Yes i know they are expensive tiles :eek:).

How wrong is that, i gave the tile shop the exact dimensions, and they are quite a lot over-estimated (and my bathroom is pretty small). it seems to be to be a bit 'convenient' for the tile shop to be able to make mistakes like that, that so happen to work out nicely for them, or am i being unreasonable?

Musha

When i was building a few years ago the policy in the three tile shops i dealt with was if the tile box was full and unopened they would accept returns.

Do the have a website, returns policy on the back of the docket or in store?

niceirishfella

Musha wrote: »

tile shops i dealt with was if the tile box was full and unopened they would accept returns.

+1

There should be NO problem returning full unopened boxes, uncut used tiletrims, border tiles or buckets of adhesive and the like.
And yes, over estimation is the norm. I sold tiles years and years ago, and was always told to do it in the hope most "oversells" will not come back.

But you can return the stuff and you don't have to accept a credit note either. Who is it BTW?
ohhh, and return the stuff soon - they could be gone soon - many are going under these days.

FX Meister

niceirishfella wrote: »

But you can return the stuff and you don't have to accept a credit note either.

You are wrong. They are well within their rights to not refund you or even give you a credit note.

niceirishfella

FX Meister wrote: »

You are wrong. They are well within their rights to not refund you or even give you a credit note.

sorry, you are wrong.

Random

But you can return the stuff and you don't have to accept a credit note either

What is your basis for this? Are you saying because there's tiles involed? Or because the tile shop suggested the amount he would need?

Zeppi

check the T&C regarding returns/ refunds


Zeppi

niceirishfella

It's simple - the tile place got it wrong with their estimate from YOUR measurements. Not your problem.

see the consumer connect website for more -
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Services/breach-of-contract.html

its standard to take boxes back too in the trade, I've done it as a tile seller and returned stuff as a consumer.
No big deal.

the_syco

niceirishfella wrote: »

sorry, you are wrong.

If the goods aren't broken, the shop doesn't have to refund you. They don't even have to give you credit.

Random

Did they suggest the required number of tiles when you requested or say "x amount is required" ?

niceirishfella

Syco, you are wrong too.They over supplied the OP - they do. Call consumer connect tomorrow if you doubt me.
I'm not partaking in this wrong/right gameshow anymore. OP, you know what to do and if in doubt, call consumer connect or see their site. They are quite good and will advise you well.

Random

Whenever you buy goods, you make a contract with the shop or seller who sold them to you. The seller agrees to provide certain goods to you for a certain price, and those goods should be:

* Of "merchantable quality" – this means that they must be of an acceptable standard
* Fit for the purpose they were bought for
* As described. In other words, false or exaggerated claims must not be made by the seller

If the goods fail to comply with any of these criteria - for example, if they turn out to be faulty - you have certain clear rights under consumer legislation. These entitlements are known as the three R's:

* Repair
* Replacement
* Refund

I'm guessing it could loosely fall under "As described. In other words, false or exaggerated claims must not be made by the seller" provided the OP has some proof that the tile shop said this was the exact amount that was required ?

Lollipops23

niceirishfella wrote: »

Syco, you are wrong too

You are legally enititled to a refund or exchange if the goods are not fit for their purpose( they were) and of merchantable quality(they were) and as correspond with samples (sounds like they did). After that it's shop's policy.

OP could have measured his bathroom and figured it out himself(i wouldn't have been arsed tbh!) but chose to ask the shop assistant. I'm not saying i wouldn't be pissed off myself but the shop don't have to do anything!

niceirishfella

Lollipops23 wrote: »

OP could have measured his bathroom and figured it out himself(i wouldn't have been arsed tbh!) but chose to ask the shop assistant. I'm not saying i wouldn't be pissed off myself but the shop don't have to do anything!

Lolli, read the OP's post again - "went to a tile shop, gave them the dimensions of the bathroom"

They over supplied. Its a Services issue: breach of contract
If things go wrong and it's the service supplier's fault, they should put things right.
See this page on the CC site - http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Services/breach-of-contract.html

allthedoyles

I had no problem returning a full box of unopened tiles at a well known outlet in Waterford .
They gave me a full refund .
When I made purchase , they informed me that they would take back any unopened boxes .

FX Meister

niceirishfella wrote: »

sorry, you are wrong.

Nope, you're wrong. That might be how your boss ran the place when you sold tiles but they are not legally obliged to give any form of refund. I don't think you can understand that though so just drop it.

niceirishfella

FX Meister wrote: »

I don't think you can understand that though so just drop it.

ohhh, the irony.:D

Random

niceirishfella wrote: »

Lolli, read the OP's post again - "went to a tile shop, gave them the dimensions of the bathroom"

They over supplied. Its a Services issue: breach of contract
If things go wrong and it's the service supplier's fault, they should put things right.
See this page on the CC site - http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Services/breach-of-contract.html

They were providing a product though, not a service as such. This is why I was wondering if he'd be covered under this.

What is your basis beyond your services link? It really doesn't define services as you're trying to use it from what I can see.

dudara

Posters, stop the right/wrong ping pong

dudara

herya

Lollipops23 wrote: »

You are legally enititled to a refund or exchange if the goods are not fit for their purpose( they were)

Well actually the whole lot that was sold to the OP was not fit for its purpose - it was too large.

Lollipops23

dudara wrote: »

Posters, stop the right/wrong ping pong

dudara

i think people are just(messily!) trying to figure out whether or not the OP is legally entitled to a refund and whether it falls under the merchantable quality/fit for purpose etc etc.

Sam Vimes

imo the op gave the dimensions to the people who are supposed to know how many tiles it takes to cover certain dimensions and they sold him too many so he should be allowed give them back

It'd be like a shop assistant lying by telling you you need a particular add on for a product to work. The extra item works perfectly but you have no need for it even though you were told you did so it was mis-sold

thefinalstage

Sam Vimes wrote: »

imo the op gave the dimensions to the people who are supposed to know how many tiles it takes to cover certain dimensions and they sold him too many so he should be allowed give them back

It'd be like a shop assistant lying by telling you you need a particular add on for a product to work. The extra item works perfectly but you have no need for it even though you were told you did so it was mis-sold

Maybe he gave the wrong dimensions?

Random

thelastangryman wrote: »

Maybe he gave the wrong dimensions?

Assuming he gave the wrong dimensions then it's a case of tough.

Let's assume he gave the right ones for the purposes of this discussion. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts.

K-9

Sam Vimes wrote: »

imo the op gave the dimensions to the people who are supposed to know how many tiles it takes to cover certain dimensions and they sold him too many so he should be allowed give them back

It'd be like a shop assistant lying by telling you you need a particular add on for a product to work. The extra item works perfectly but you have no need for it even though you were told you did so it was mis-sold

thelastangryman wrote: »

Maybe he gave the wrong dimensions?

Yep, that does happen. They also allow for breakages and tiles that have to be cut.

Having said that, they should accept the returns, it usually is the norm as posted by others. Maybe it was an end of line product?

calex71

from my dealings with tile places i would have thought it to be standard practice to accept returns of unopened boxes, i know they dont have to by law but i call bad form on this place, and they should be named and shamed if that is indeed what the op is retuning (unopened boxes)

Random

calex71 wrote: »

from my dealings with tile places i would have thought it to be standard practice to accept returns of unopened boxes, i know they dont have to by law but i call bad form on this place, and they should be named and shamed if that is indeed what the op is retuning (unopened boxes)

They shouldn't be "shamed and named" if they're in the right. Everyones ignoring my post and it's winding me up now. Am I miles off or something? It's all yes / no / maybes and nobody seems to be heeding the posts with actualy content in them.

jor el

Random wrote: »

They shouldn't be "shamed and named" if they're in the right. Everyones ignoring my post and it's winding me up now. Am I miles off or something? It's all yes / no / maybes and nobody seems to be heeding the posts with actualy content in them.

Perhaps you're on everyone's ignore list

If he gave the correct dimensions, then the shop should have been able to calculate the required amount of tiles, and shouldn't really have over estimated by such an amount. Maybe they thought he'd have to cut more tiles than he did, and so by doing it differently than what the shop thought he'd do it, he didn't end up needing as many. This couldn't really be blamed on either side, and I'd doubt it entitles you to any kind of return (by law anyway). As mentioned, they really should take them back. Perhaps he just spoke to the wrong people, need to see a manager maybe.

Most importantly, would be if the OP wrote down the dimensions, and if he got a written quote on how many tiles would be needed to cover that. Without anything in writing, he's fighting an "I said - You said" style battle, and much like the start of this thread, it'll get him nowhere.

Sam Vimes

thelastangryman wrote: »

Maybe he gave the wrong dimensions?

That would be a different story altogether

Joey the lips

Lads just to help you all out, I come from a retail backround and I done consumer law. The shop will protect itself by saying it's the customers responsability to work out tiles needed. Then the shop will up the qty to the nearest box. This is standard practice


If this is what was done as it generally is they are not required to take the good back unless the goods are not fit for their purpose, ie faulty etc

This is the law!

Now if you gave the shop the measurements and the shop has no sign up to say you are responsable for them(Dont point this out to the shop) when you go to consumer relations specify this and thell them that you relied on the shops professional capacity to supply the correct amount!

You might get some where

Lastly

Its not generally the shop its his supplier. There are not many suppliers in ireland and they generally do not take back tiles.

The only place I've ever bought tiles was in Homebase. They were always happy to take them back (provided they were fit to be resold). So if you got them in Homebase, then maybe you just need to get the attention of a manager, rather than a sales assistant?

darc

Its very difficult to answer when very little information has been provided.

What were the measurements given?
Hove many sq yards of tiles were sold?
What percentage did the leftover stock represent of the total order?
Was the tile bought in specially for the OP or was it a stock item?
How many edges are there in the bathroom (this affect the number of off cuts there would be)

If the measurements pan out to be 10% less than the sold quantity, then this is acceptable. - Over 15% and the store could be accused of over selling.

If the left overs represent less than 15% of the total purchase, then its sort of acceptable, as the amount left would depend on how accurate the cutting was.

seamus

A retailer has a responsibility to ensure that goods sold are fit for the purpose for which they're being sold. This would include a customer asking, "Is there enough here to fit my bathroom?", "Will this rain cover, cover my people carrier?", and so forth. If the retailer gets it wrong, then the goods sold are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended and the customer is entitled to return it.

Of course, this is on the edge of that - does the customer have to bring all of the product back, or just the bit which was fit for the purpose. There is also "acceptable wastage" to factor in, as darc points out. Other factors include the size of the tile; If the tile was a 5cm edge, then I'd say that have 2 sq.m. left over (80 tiles) is ridiculous. However, if the tiles are huge 50cm edge, then you only have 8 tiles left over, which probably wouldn't even be a single box and would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

Joey the lips

seamus wrote: »

A retailer has a responsibility to ensure that goods sold are fit for the purpose for which they're being sold. This would include a customer asking, "Is there enough here to fit my bathroom?", "Will this rain cover, cover my people carrier?", and so forth. If the retailer gets it wrong, then the goods sold are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended and the customer is entitled to return it.

Of course, this is on the edge of that - does the customer have to bring all of the product back, or just the bit which was fit for the purpose. There is also "acceptable wastage" to factor in, as darc points out. Other factors include the size of the tile; If the tile was a 5cm edge, then I'd say that have 2 sq.m. left over (80 tiles) is ridiculous. However, if the tiles are huge 50cm edge, then you only have 8 tiles left over, which probably wouldn't even be a single box and would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

Hi Sheamus, The product is not unfit. Check consumer law No the shop does not have to take the goods back.

seamus

Joey the lips wrote: »

Hi Sheamus, The product is not unfit. Check consumer law No the shop does not have to take the goods back.

It's a fine line. "It's a tile, therefore it's suitable for tiling" doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Check the regulations on it - it's up to the retailer to ensure that the product being sold is appropriate for what it's being used for.

To give a slightly relevant example, let's say a guy goes into Halford and picks up a rain cover clearly marked as a rain cover for a sports hatchback car. He tells the retailer that he's buying it for his hi-ace. If the retailer sells the cover and it inevitably doesn't fit, the retailer is obliged to take it back and replace it (or refund it) because the goods sold were not fit for the purpose for which they were bought and the retailer knew this.

This is a slightly different situation, purely because there appears to be an error in calculation either on the OP's side or on the retailer's side. However, if the error is on the retailers side, then the retailer sold goods which were not fit for their specific purpose - i.e. he sold too much of it. But I imagine you would have something of a battle on your hands to get anything out of it because it's such a specific grey case. If it's a box or more of tiles, I'd be surprised that the retailer wouldn't take them back in exchange for something else in the shop. If it's less than a box, throw it in your garage as spares.

vms7ply9t6dw4b

seamus wrote: »

It's a fine line. "It's a tile, therefore it's suitable for tiling" doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Check the regulations on it - it's up to the retailer to ensure that the product being sold is appropriate for what it's being used for.

To give a slightly relevant example, let's say a guy goes into Halford and picks up a rain cover clearly marked as a rain cover for a sports hatchback car. He tells the retailer that he's buying it for his hi-ace. If the retailer sells the cover and it inevitably doesn't fit, the retailer is obliged to take it back and replace it (or refund it) because the goods sold were not fit for the purpose for which they were bought and the retailer knew this.

Does the law not state that the goods must be of merchantable quality and fit for thier INTENDED purpose? I dont remember seeing anywhere that the goods must be fit for what the consumer wants them to do.

i.e. using your example,the cover is INTENDED to be used on a hiace and therefore of merchantable quality and fit for the purpose. The salesman is just dishonest if he tells him its for a hatchback and thats where Caveat emptor comes into it.
It would be a different story if the customer bought a cover for a hatchback and inside the box there was a cover for a hiace... then the goods would be unfit for the intended purpose and not of merchantable quality.

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware..

Lets assume his measurements were correct,

The person who bought the tiles put his trust in the person estimating the amount he would need. They either deliberately or unintentionally got this wrong and unless the person buying the tiles was paying for an estimation service i cant see the tile shop having a legal duty of care to ensure that the estimations are accurate?

The OP should have worked it out himself if he wanted a more accurate estimation on how many tiles he would need but he chose to take the word of sombody else. Nobody in the shop held a gun to his head and forced him to buy x amount of tiles.

People can make thier own minds up as to weather or not the people selling the tiles knew he would have way too much. I think 12 months ago they would have taken them back anyway, its just a sign of the times business is becoming scarce and goodwill comes at too high a price these days.
Its also a sign people need to keep thier wits about them when throwing money around the place, cant see the first post but was it €300 for two boxes of tiles?!:eek:

edit: €165 a square metre on tiles!!?? No recession in your house, or at least not in your bathroom anyway!

seamus

Jayden Victorious Shredder wrote: »

Does the law not state that the goods must be of merchantable quality and fit for thier INTENDED purpose? I dont remember seeing anywhere that the goods must be fit for what the consumer wants them to do.

The goods must be fit for the purpose for which they're being bought, not the purpose for which they were manufactured. The relevant bit is this:

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980, Section 10. 14(4) wrote:

where the seller sells goods in the course of a business and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes known to the seller any particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied, except where the circumstances show that the buyer does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for him to rely, on the seller's skill or judgement.

Which basically means that if the guy tells the retailer what he's using the goods for, the retailer is required to ensure that they are fit for that purpose. So in my example, the guy says he wants a cover for his hi-ace, the retailer is aware that it's not suitable for a hi-ace, so is required to tell him (or take it back when it doesn't fit the hi-ace).

Caveat Emptor doesn't hold the same pedestal in consumer law as it does in business or private sales.

Lets assume his measurements were correct,

The person who bought the tiles put his trust in the person estimating the amount he would need. They either deliberately or unintentionally got this wrong and unless the person buying the tiles was paying for an estimation service i cant see the tile shop having a legal duty of care to ensure that the estimations are accurate?

In light of the above paragraph can you see how the seller may be deemed liable because he may have sold too much tile to the buyer when he knew the buyer wanted less?

Joey the lips

seamus wrote: »

It's a fine line. "It's a tile, therefore it's suitable for tiling" doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Check the regulations on it - it's up to the retailer to ensure that the product being sold is appropriate for what it's being used for.

To give a slightly relevant example, let's say a guy goes into Halford and picks up a rain cover clearly marked as a rain cover for a sports hatchback car. He tells the retailer that he's buying it for his hi-ace. If the retailer sells the cover and it inevitably doesn't fit, the retailer is obliged to take it back and replace it (or refund it) because the goods sold were not fit for the purpose for which they were bought and the retailer knew this.

This is a slightly different situation, purely because there appears to be an error in calculation either on the OP's side or on the retailer's side. However, if the error is on the retailers side, then the retailer sold goods which were not fit for their specific purpose - i.e. he sold too much of it. But I imagine you would have something of a battle on your hands to get anything out of it because it's such a specific grey case. If it's a box or more of tiles, I'd be surprised that the retailer wouldn't take them back in exchange for something else in the shop. If it's less than a box, throw it in your garage as spares.

Hi Sheamus

If you think this the case when dont you go to the shop with the poster I am sure he will split the money returned.

and if you waste the posters time pu your money down and you return it.

But if you dont believe me contact consumer relations.

Sam Vimes

To all the people who are saying they don't have to return it because it's fit for purpose, what about my example of a sales person lying by telling a customer he needs to buy an add on for a product to work? In that case the add on works perfectly and is fit for its purpose but the customer was misled into buying it so should he not be allowed return it?

The law says it should be fit for it's intended purpose but the intended purpose is to cover his room. The tiles he got were meant to cover a much larger room so they are not fit for their intended purpose. It's like telling someone they need a chainsaw to cut paper. They're also not as described because they were described as the number of tiles needed to cover his room

Of course as seamus says it depends on how many boxes were left over. If it's only one or maybe two boxes it could be seen as taking account of odd cuttings and breakages but loads of boxes would be over selling

coco06

OP Providing did you give them the correct measurements for your bathroom. If you post them here we could work it out. Usually you need to add 10-15% for cutting and waste

The shop should have said that because they were special order they couldnt take any returns and make this clear to you. I have come across this before and was happy to accept this.

Usually though if they can resell them they will take them back and charge a restocking fee of 10% (which is rediculus anyway).

You can see where they are coming from, but if they made the mistake and admit it then they should take them back, if not and its not on your t&c's then it looks like you could be stuck with them.

You should always keep some spare incase u need to repair some or move something in your bathroom. Or you could try and sell them?

seamus

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you think this the case when dont you go to the shop with the poster I am sure he will split the money returned.

I never said that I specifically think it's the case, but I think it's a possibility. Why would I put my own money down on it?

See the piece of legislation I've quoted and you'll see why I'm putting it in a possibility.

vms7ply9t6dw4b

seamus wrote: »

Which basically means that if the guy tells the retailer what he's using the goods for, the retailer is required to ensure that they are fit for that purpose. So in my example, the guy says he wants a cover for his hi-ace, the retailer is aware that it's not suitable for a hi-ace, so is required to tell him (or take it back when it doesn't fit the hi-ace).

I dont interpret that to cover quantity though, especially since the customer wasnt paying for it to be quantified. The shop could claim that it was standard practice for them to over estimate by two boxes to allow for breakage and wastage.

I think its bad form on the part of the tile store at wost but I personally dont think the has a legal right to return the tiles but clearly you do and a judge might, there would only be one way to find out OP