No change given at Carlow train station

oxygen_old

Hey

I have an annual travel ticket for the commuter train from Carlow to Dublin. They have added a new parking ticket machine, which is fine. Usually I get there a little early on a Monday, and pay for a weekly ticket. €8, as opposed to €2 a day.

However this morning I got in early and saw I had only notes. I joined the ticket queue to get change of a tenner, since the machine only takes notes. When I got to the top I asked for changed and the guy behind the desk said “I don’t have any”, and I said “The trains outside, I don’t have change for the machine, can you take my reg and not clamp my car, I can fix up with you tomorrow.” He said “No, if the car is out there without a ticket it will be clamped.”

As a result, I missed my train, (consider the cost, the ticket works out at about a 10 a day for the train). I had to take a bus a quarter of an half hour later to Dublin, which made me an hour late for work, and added an extra 15 euro travel cost.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is there anypoint in making a complaint, or looking for a refund?
If the expect you to pay with coin, I presume they need to provide change? What about people buying tickets, Im sure they must need change for them.

penexpers

The guys in the station have nothing to do with the car parking - it's completely run by NCPS now.

Rawr

I don't know if you'll have any grounds for refund. It is a poor show on the car park operator's count. I feel there really should be a way to get some coins (especially if the station is far from shops)

For myself, the big plus for getting a season ticket is that it removes the need to carry chunks of change for any reason, thus I can relate to the predicament you found yourself in.

Most likely the operators choose coin-only no-change machines, because they require less management. I used to work in car parks when I was younger, and our biggest challenge was keeping the Note-accepting ticket machines stocked with coins for change. Refills would have to be done often, and one machine was kept as 'Coin-Only' so we could use it to get more change.

The operator may have gone for the easiest and cheapest way of managing the car-parks...but that doesn't make it right for there to be no way to get change. The IE ticket agent probably had change he could have given you, but didn't, to make his change last. Some sort of separate change-machine might be an idea.

godtabh

What did you expect him to do if he had no change to give?

Colm R

This is an interesting problem alright. Notes are legal tender. I remember something similar coming up years ago about vending machines. I have no clue what it was about, but there was talk of making a legal requirement on vending machines/parking machines, that if the price of any one product was greater than £2 (long time ago), then the machine has to be capable of accepting notes.

FibbersON

I can understand your frustration, but it' yourself you should be mad at, you knew it was a coin only machine, you arrived with not enough time to get your car sorted.

The only person I think you could be mad at is the train driver, if he left early.

Cookie_Monster

Isin't there no legal requirement to give change?

oxygen_old

kearnsr wrote: »

What did you expect him to do if he had no change to give?

If they really had no change to give, he should have wrote down my car reg and allowed me to fix up tomorrow.

FibbersON wrote: »

I can understand your frustration, but it' yourself you should be mad at,

You think Im mad at myself? You must be cracked. I was extremely putout by this. The train operator can not wash their hands of car parking requirement, just as larger retail stores such as cinemas or supermakets cant open without adequate parking facility. And what about anyone else who bought a ticket? Was he saying to them "Sorry no change, even notes only today". No he gave them change. This is an issue directly related to CIE.

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Isin't there no legal requirement to give change?

That is correct. The onus is solely on the purchaser to tender the correct amount of money to cover the bill in question. That said, I don't know how legal it is to insist on specific notes and coins as payment once it isn't 50 coins in the transaction.

Ham'nd'egger

oxygen wrote: »

If they really had no change to give, he should have wrote down my car reg and allowed me to fix up tomorrow.

Not to doubt your integrity but is there any genuine practical reason why you should have gotten the service of parking for free today?

oxygen wrote: »

You think Im mad at myself? You must be cracked. I was extremely putout by this. The train operator can not wash their hands of car parking requirement, just as larger retail stores such as cinemas or supermakets cant open without adequate parking facility. And what about anyone else who bought a ticket? Was he saying to them "Sorry no change, even notes only today". No he gave them change. This is an issue directly related to CIE.

Your gripe ought to be with yourself for not having the means to pay today or NCPS who run the car parks and the machines. The clerk in the ticket booth may well have been low on coins or not have had the time to serve you when he has to issue tickets to train passengers; they needed to be served as well as you.

oxygen_old

Hamndegger wrote: »

Not to doubt your integrity but is there any genuine practical reason why you should have gotten the service of parking for free today?



Your gripe ought to be with yourself for not having the means to pay today or NCPS who run the car parks and the machines. The clerk in the ticket booth may well have been low on coins or not have had the time to serve you when he has to issue tickets to train passengers; they needed to be served as well as you.

Because I had a prepaid ticket, on a contract that runs a year, costing me over €200 per month. That makes me a very good customer. This should be basic customer service. Airlingus wouldn't sell you a flight, if there was pedestrian access to the airport only. This wouldnt be an issue if CIE were privatised. Virgin trains in England are much more focused on customer service.

And, btw, I had the means to pay, absolutely legal tender, when did a wallet full of notes become non legal tender. If you are in a bar, and you want smokes, the bar man wouldnt hestiate to give you change. The only difference is that CIE is a state company, so the service is terrible and that is accepted.

Ham'nd'egger

oxygen wrote: »

Because I had a prepaid ticket, on a contract that runs a year, costing me over €200 per month. That makes me a very good customer. This should be basic customer service. Airlingus wouldn't sell you a flight, if there was pedestrian access to the airport only. This wouldnt be an issue if CIE were privatised. Virgin trains in England are much more focused on customer service.

And, btw, I had the means to pay, absolutely legal tender, when did a wallet full of notes become non legal tender. If you are in a bar, and you want smokes, the bar man wouldnt hestiate to give you change. The only difference is that CIE is a state company, so the service is terrible and that is accepted.

Your beef ought to be with the car park machine or you for not being able to pay and not the guy in the ticket office. It isn't his fault you didn't have change when you know you needed coinage to pay for same, it isn't actually his job to hold up other passengers to suss you out for same and it certainly isn't his job to keep sketch on your car because you didn't pay for a car parking ticket today.

godtabh

oxygen wrote: »

If they really had no change to give, he should have wrote down my car reg and allowed me to fix up tomorrow.

That's like me going to Tesco and saying I've a club card but no money to pay for my shopping but take my reg and I'll sort it out. That just doesn't happen. your argument is very weak

it always seems to be the same. Blame some one else for your own actions

oxygen_old

Hamndegger wrote: »

Your beef ought to be with the car park machine or you for not being able to pay and not the guy in the ticket office. It isn't his fault you didn't have change when you know you needed coinage to pay for same, it isn't actually his job to hold up other passengers to suss you out for same and it certainly isn't his job to keep sketch on your car because you didn't pay for a car parking ticket today.

It isnt my job to know that I will need a two euro coin to catch a train I have all ready paid for. I have an agreement with CIE to travel on their train , and as a travel company, they need to allow for car parking. I dont know the legal issues, but any retail store, or large work organisation, generally provides parking, whether it be free or not. CIE were not providing me the option to park. They would not accept my money.

Mr. Presentable

oxygen wrote: »

And, btw, I had the means to pay, absolutely legal tender, when did a wallet full of notes become non legal tender. If you are in a bar, and you want smokes, the bar man wouldnt hestiate to give you change. The only difference is that CIE is a state company, so the service is terrible and that is accepted.

I think you are entirely missing the point here. Irish Rail do not operate the car park. You are in no position to criticise their employee for not affording you change for the benefit of another company. On the other hand, if the new car park situation came into being overnight with no notice you might have grounds to complain to the operator, but I doubt that happened.

oxygen_old

kearnsr wrote: »

That's like me going to Tesco and saying I've a club card but no money to pay for my shopping but take my reg and I'll sort it out. That just doesn't happen. your argument is very weak

it always seems to be the same. Blame some one else for your own actions

What? This is a completely different situation. I have already paid for the service from CIE. If anything its like tesco's not changing a tenner for me to allow me to park in their car park. Do tesco's turn people away who just want change. No, they dont. I have often gotten change for trolly's and stuff. in tesco's. Your argument is very weak.

And I am blaming someone else. Im blaming CIE. I was prepaid to travel, its why I pay out a considerable amount for travel each month, so I can travel with them.

Ham'nd'egger

oxygen wrote: »

It isnt my job to know that I will need a two euro coin to catch a train I have all ready paid for. I have an agreement with CIE to travel on their train , and as a travel company, they need to allow for car parking. I dont know the legal issues, but any retail store, or large work organisation, generally provides parking, whether it be free or not. CIE were not providing me the option to park. They would not accept my money.

If it takes €2 to pay for parking then it most certainly is your trouble to have €2 when you park there.

oxygen_old

Hamndegger wrote: »

If it takes €2 to pay for parking then it most certainly is your trouble to have €2 when you park there.

I had €2. I had 5 of them in a ten euro note, and I was ready to pay their (or whoever's) charge. It was them who wouldn't allow me to pay the ticket, by insisting at 7.25am that I have 2 euro in change.

Cookie_Monster

oxygen wrote: »

I had €2. I had 5 of them in a ten euro note, and I was ready to pay their (or whoever's) charge. It was them who wouldn't allow me to pay the ticket, by insisting at 7.25am that I have 2 euro in change.

If I have a tenner on me I can't get the bus because they don't take notes. I damn well make sure I have the change before turning up at the busstop and it's noone's fault but my own if I don't.


Does this train station exist in complete isolation to the rest of the universe too? Could you not have gone to a Centra/whatever and bought a coffee to get the change you needed?

oxygen_old

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If I have a tenner on me I can't get the bus because they don't take notes. I damn well make sure I have the change before turning up at the busstop and it's noone's fault but my own if I don't.


Does this train station exist in complete isolation to the rest of the universe too? Could you not have gone to a Centra/whatever and bought a coffee to get the change you needed?

If your getting the bus, that’s the only charge you have to pay. The reason Dublin bus don’t give out change is a security issue. Up until a couple of years ago they did.

If you went to the cinema, and you had no change, would you expect the cinema to not give you change for a parking machine, thus stopping you seeing a movie? No, of course they would give you change, cause they want you in the door, cause there a private company, and have some idea of customer service.

And no, In Carlow at 7 am there isn’t spar’s and Centra’s open for me to be driving off to and get change for the train station car park cause there not giving out change today. I don’t get up a half hour earlier to allow for the fact that the train station aren’t giving out change.

paulm17781

oxygen wrote: »

And no, In Carlow at 7 am there isn’t spar’s and Centra’s open for me to be driving off to and get change for the train station car park cause there not giving out change today. I don’t get up a half hour earlier to allow for the fact that the train station aren’t giving out change.

The train station and car park are not the same thing. The train station is under no obligation to give you change. You may as well blame the guy who parked beside you for not paying your fare. He has as much to do with the car park as Irish rail do.

Car park = NCPS
Station = Irish Rail

Irish Rail != NCPS

Ham'nd'egger

oxygen wrote: »

I had €2. I had 5 of them in a ten euro note, and I was ready to pay their (or whoever's) charge. It was them who wouldn't allow me to pay the ticket, by insisting at 7.25am that I have 2 euro in change.

Did the machine take this new paper 5x€2 coin?:D

godtabh

oxygen wrote: »

What? This is a completely different situation. I have already paid for the service from CIE. If anything its like tesco's not changing a tenner for me to allow me to park in their car park. Do tesco's turn people away who just want change. No, they dont. I have often gotten change for trolly's and stuff. in tesco's. Your argument is very weak.

And I am blaming someone else. Im blaming CIE. I was prepaid to travel, its why I pay out a considerable amount for travel each month, so I can travel with them.

CIE dont run the car park.

Does that have to be spelt out to you?

oxygen_old

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If I have a tenner on me I can't get the bus because they don't take notes. I damn well make sure I have the change before turning up at the busstop and it's noone's fault but my own if I don't.


Does this train station exist in complete isolation to the rest of the universe too? Could you not have gone to a Centra/whatever and bought a coffee to get the change you needed?

paulm17781 wrote: »

The train station and car park are not the same thing. The train station is under no obligation to give you change. You may as well blame the guy who parked beside you for not paying your fare. He has as much to do with the car park as Irish rail do.

Car park = NCPS
Station = Irish Rail

Irish Rail != NCPS

Do Irish Rail have a sign up saying they wont provide change for Car Park? No

Do Irish Rail have three big external sign’s up in the car park, instructing that without payment of car parking a charge, cars will be clamped, with the Irish Rail logo on the very top of the sign? Yes

Does the guy beside me have three big external sign’s up in the car park, instructing that without payment of car parking a charge, cars will be clamped, with the guy beside me’s logo on the very top of the sign? No

And as is happened the man(well woman) beside me offered me the two euro to park my car. Hence offering better customer service than Irish Rail. And before anyone starts, as kind as it was, I’m not going to take a strangers money to park my car.

If Irish Rail want to distance themselves from the 3rd party car parking soo much, stop putting their logo on top of signs.

paulm17781

Do Irish Rail run the car park? No

patrickc

oxygen wrote: »

And no, In Carlow at 7 am there isn’t spar’s and Centra’s open for me to be driving off to and get change for the train station car park cause there not giving out change today. I don’t get up a half hour earlier to allow for the fact that the train station aren’t giving out change.

theres plenty of shops open in Carlow at 7am, grant it the trainstation shop would not be open at that time.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

People seriously need to educate themselves as to what legal tender actually is because it comes up so often here and no one has a clue. It's ridiculous.

oxygen_old

paulm17781 wrote: »

Do Irish Rail run the car park? No

Do Irish Rail indicate this in any way? No
Do Irish Rail instruct on the clamping charges with Irish Rail branded signs? Yes

patrickc wrote: »

theres plenty of shops open in Carlow at 7am, grant it the trainstation shop would not be open at that time.

Im not at the train station a half hour early waiting for trains. I get there for about 5 minutes before the train leaves at. I don’t live my life by a worst case scenario basis, and I’m not on my own in doing this. The closest open shop is a 5 minute drive from the train station. Not to mention time allotment for parking at the shop and going in to get the change.

patrickc

oxygen wrote: »

Do Irish Rail indicate this in any way? No
Do Irish Rail instruct on the clamping charges with Irish Rail branded signs? Yes



Im not at the train station a half hour early waiting for trains. I get there for about 5 minutes before the train leaves at. I don’t live my life by a worst case scenario basis, and I’m not on my own in doing this. The closest open shop is a 5 minute drive from the train station. Not to mention time allotment for parking at the shop and going in to get the change.

statoil is about 2 mins drive, but that neither here nor there, i see your point about the change thing

Victor

oxygen wrote: »

Because I had a prepaid ticket, on a contract that runs a year, costing me over €200 per month. That makes me a very good customer. This should be basic customer service. Airlingus wouldn't sell you a flight, if there was pedestrian access to the airport only. This wouldnt be an issue if CIE were privatised. Virgin trains in England are much more focused on customer service.

And, btw, I had the means to pay, absolutely legal tender, when did a wallet full of notes become non legal tender. If you are in a bar, and you want smokes, the bar man wouldnt hestiate to give you change. The only difference is that CIE is a state company, so the service is terrible and that is accepted.

Its is perfectly within an organisations rights to decide how they will accpet payment. Carlow parking meters only take coins. Ryanair don't take cash for flights.

oxygen wrote: »

It isnt my job to know that I will need a two euro coin to catch a train I have all ready paid for. I have an agreement with CIE to travel on their train , and as a travel company, they need to allow for car parking. I dont know the legal issues, but any retail store, or large work organisation, generally provides parking, whether it be free or not. CIE were not providing me the option to park. They would not accept my money.

CIE don't run the car park, NCPS do - a private company. Were you not able to park elsewhere?

oxygen, we appreciate you had a problem, but ultimately it is your problem. Its not unreasonable to expect motorists to have the correct change for parking. Businesses don't exist to give change. Its not unreasonable for a cashier to not give change if they don't have enough change.

paulm17781

oxygen wrote: »

Do Irish Rail indicate this in any way? No
Do Irish Rail instruct on the clamping charges with Irish Rail branded signs? Yes

I'll try again:

Do Irish rail run the car park? No

Now, you are clearly angry that the Irish rail employee would not give you change. This is not his problem. In this case it was your fault for not having change. End of Story.

Should Irish rail / NCPS have better signage? Clearly they should. Now, go write to Irish rail about this rather than posting here. It is not Irish rails' fault that you didn't have change. Irish rail are not obliged to give you change.

oxygen wrote: »

I don’t live my life by a worst case scenario basis, and I’m not on my own in doing this.

And look how that has panned out for you. Maybe from now on you'll bring change and not expect some random sales person (that's what the ticket clerk was in this transaction) to give you change because you didn't have it.