French sore losers

babarino

Just read over on http://www.equipe.fr/Rugby/T09_IRL_FRA_CR.html Equipe - France's main sports paper, their reading of the game.

The gist is - undeserved victory, ref biased towards us, Ireland lacking in 'génie' - genius. And then the author throws in that it was a typical Anglo Saxon performance!

Ardscoil Ris

Sacré bleu

Chucky the tree

There right.

corny

This **** about Nigel Owens being biased is ridiculous. Owens is a great referee who doesn't get bogged down by the minutia other referees ruin games with. He tends to referee intent over technicalities unlike Chris White for example. This leads to good free flowing games and yesterday was just that thanks to the referee. The French were pinged more times because they did commit more infringements, simple as. Ireland knew how the referee refs and played accordingly and if the French didn't know his style thats there fault, there was no bias involved.

Orizio

Nigel Owens was indeed the main difference between the two teams.

Of course, most wouldn't admit as such after a defeat...but they are French after all.

Trojan

The crowd of French guys I was at the match with were dead sound and great sports. No sore loser attitude to be found.

Wouldn't worry too much about L'Equipe.

I read the article and theres no real evidence of sour grapes. He basically said that the French need to learn how to play clinical rugby like Ireland before they go for the flair.

He was pretty much on the money, and there was no mention of Nigel Owens

Dante

The ref gave us everything though in all fairness. Had it been the other way around, we would all be complaining so don't say anything.

babarino

The article has been edited since I read it earlier and has dropped blaming the ref.

The bit that irked me most is the reference to us as Anglo Saxons. That's still there despite corrections submitted in "Réagissez".

Ponster

babarino wrote: »

The bit that irked me most is the reference to us as Anglo Saxons. That's still there despite corrections submitted in "Réagissez".

The French refer to most English speaking peoples as Anglo-Saxon. They should say "anglophonic" instead.

taidghbaby

in any sport you have to be able to play the referee-by this i mean know what you can/cant get away with!

this is even more important in rugby as much of the game is left to the interpretation of the referee, e.g. breakdown, scrums etc.

could ireland have been penalised more-probably, should France have adapted to the referee better-definitely!

anonymous_joe

Lads, I think we're all willing to accept they were robbed. Great French performance, but not clinical.

Trojan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think we're all willing to accept they were robbed.

Let us do no such damn thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-TlRi_uj4#t=0m3s

toomevara

Trojan wrote: »

Wouldn't worry too much about L'Equipe.

+1, L'Equipe is a pointless rag, wouldn't sully me hole by wiping with it...as for the French, in general they see us as Englishmen in denial when they see us at all...I love putting one over them, surely the sweetest of all scalps for the true Irish rugby fan....

Hagar

They're just not used to losing to Ireland, it must have been a bit of a shock for them.

Serenity Now!

Trojan wrote: »

Wouldn't worry too much about L'Equipe.

Yep. Its certainly not the chosen French rag by the Irish squad and management following the disgraceful excuse for journalism during the RWC2007.

Junior

At times it's the sporting equivalent of the Dail Mail or The Sun, but because of French Libel laws, it goes a touch lower at times.

ironingbored

toomevara wrote: »

as for the French, in general they see us as Englishmen in denial when they see us at all....

Where do you get this from? I have always found that the French have a deep respect for Ireland and its traditions.

In response to the OP:
Throughout continental Europe people from the British Isles are referred to as Anglo-Saxon in their attitudes and mannerisms. It is not intended as a slur. I'm also sure you will find many Irish people have Anglo-Saxon in their genes.

toomevara wrote: »

I love putting one over them, surely the sweetest of all scalps for the true Irish rugby fan....

This is rubbish. The sweetest scalp for any Irish supporter is England. I would like to think that on the rare occasions we do beat the French and enjoy it, it's because we are in awe of the magical way they play rugby.

Zzippy

I spoke to literally hundreds of French people today while working here - there was lots of banter as I was wearing the green jersey, but only 1 or 2 mentioned the referee. "Bon match" was the most popular sentiment, most said it was a great game of rugby and while disappointed they lost gave great credit to Ireland. I probably talked too much rugby and not enough business today though!

Serenity Now!

ironingbored wrote: »

The sweetest scalp for any Irish supporter is England

This is tired old tosh.
The sweetest scalp for any Irish supporter should be against the form side most likely to win. England are definitely not looking like this right now. Teary eyed wins over England mean f**k all if Ireland don't win the tourny as the days of 'Ah well, at least ye beat the English' are hopefully in the u-bend where they belong.
Wales are the favourites at the moment and I'd love nothing more than to see them whalloped in their own stadium on March 21st.

toomevara

ironingbored wrote: »

This is rubbish. The sweetest scalp for any Irish supporter is England. I would like to think that on the rare occasions we do beat the French and enjoy it, it's because we are in awe of the magical way they play rugby.

For the tub-thumping band-wagonning leprechauns, maybe, but due to sheer rarity value and difficulty, it's got to be France everytime...

babarino

ironingbored wrote: »

In response to the OP:
Throughout continental Europe people from the British Isles are referred to as Anglo-Saxon in their attitudes and mannerisms. It is not intended as a slur. I'm also sure you will find many Irish people have Anglo-Saxon in their genes.
.

Maybe on continental Europe they have this of blanket description of Irish, Scottish and Welsh people as Anglo-Saxon. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's wrong. Just as the description of Ireland as a British Isle is anachronistic, it is also a misnomer to describe us as Anglo-Saxon. And it is disrespectful to refuse to be corrected on the matter. I spent a few very happy years there, and while I love France and French civilisation, it bothered me that so many (not all) insist on this simplistic and arrogant view of us as an appendage of England.

Yes there are traces of the Anglo Saxon in our genetic makeup, just as there are traces of other races. Primarily we are a Celtic people. The French were originally Franks - a Germanic people. How do you think they'd like to be described as German?

puntosporting

Back to the ref for a sec,Nordaci (spelling) try was off a forward pass!
French were not robbed they did not score as many points and for my money never looked like winning in the second half!

LeeroyJones

The French don't like losing...end of! thats why this article was written in such manner, regardless of who beat them, the french media, in particular l'equipe are bitter! u can call that a stereotype but just read the article and others before it and its just more and more evidence that they don't take defeat very well! As Irish rugby supporters we can only laugh at the fact that the defeat has really annoyed them rather than arguing amongst ourselves!
In fairness on reading a handfull of the comment below the article, there are a good few readers who recognise they were beaten by a better side.

with regards the general european perception of Irish, I tend to see that the Irish arent liked because they speak english, but once its realised that they are Irish and not English most europeans change there tune for the better!

thebaz

brilliant performance by Ireland , finally recovered from the WC hangover , found it difficult to watch and support after th Eddie crash - but great to see an Irish team playing to their full .. as for the begrdudgery , thats all it is , the ref wasn't perfect , but seen a lot worse .. he did though let the game flow to make it the spectacle it was

mental07

Junior wrote: »

At times it's the sporting equivalent of the Dail Mail or The Sun, but because of French Libel laws, it goes a touch lower at times.

It has a massive readership though! Although maybe only because it's the only real option for sports news, as the two main broadsheets have f$$k all sport in them.

GreenHell

Lots of time for the french fans, great time with them in toulouse during the last world cup.

But.

I really really like it when we beat them, more than the english or any other team in the 6 nations.

Fishtits

French rugby fans can be almost feral in their support of their team, but, those fans that understand rugby will have a more balanced view of the match and its outcome.

We took our chances and converted them into scores.

Nigel Owens is on the record as allowing seven seconds to release the ball - then he blows - same for both sides, we adapted they didn't, they'll work on it.

With a few exceptions I detest Journalists - with good reason.

Half of what you read etc. :mad:

ressem

OP is generalising a bit.
Le Monde (http://www.lemonde.fr/sports/article/2009/02/07/tournoi-des-six-nations-le-xv-de-france-battu-par-l-irlande-30-21_1152398_3242.html#ens_id=1127408) was more complimentary towards the Irish players than many of the newspapers here or boardsie posters.

irishbucsfan

toomevara wrote: »

For the tub-thumping band-wagonning leprechauns, maybe, but due to sheer rarity value and difficulty, it's got to be France everytime...

I think you'll find you are certainly in a minority in believing that the most rewarding victory comes against the French.

I definitely enjoy beating England the most, and the Irish aren't alone in that. The Welsh and Scots cherish every hard-fought win they can get against the English. The players absolutely see the English matches as the most rewarding to win. The fact that England at the moment shouldn't challenge the Irish team that lined out against France if they play the way they did against the Italians will mean nothing when the teams play in Croker.


That being said, the team I want to beat most this year is the Welsh, by far, just for their arrogance and complacency coming into this 6N, and if we do end up winning the Grand Slam in Cardiff, I'll make sure I'm there to taste their tears!

Orizio

Is it me or do the French seem to be particurly up for playing the Irish in Croker (or France), more so then other teams?

BTW, its much better beating the French then the English. Once we hammer the English in Croker I'm more then likely to feel sorry for the useless feckers...

anonymous_joe

Orizio wrote: »

Is it me or do the French seem to be particurly up for playing the Irish in Croker (or France), more so then other teams?

BTW, its much better beating the French then the English. Once we hammer the English in Croker I'm more then likely to feel sorry for the useless feckers...

What does Croke Park stand for?

They know what it means to us - if we beat France in Paris it would matter more than beating them in Lyon, Marseille or anywhere else. Sport and tribalism go hand in hand after all.

France played some magnificent rugby, and were unlucky not to win, I truly hope for rugby's sake they keep improving, because in full flight they are unbelievable to watch.

Tim Robbins

One advantage Ireland had going into that game was Owens is a Celtic League ref and most of our players would have had him for a few games already this year.

Owens is a real no nonsense ref. Remember he reffed Ireland France last year and gave Ireland a peno try when France where acting up in the scrums.

toomevara

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That being said, the team I want to beat most this year is the Welsh, by far, just for their arrogance and complacency coming into this 6N, and if we do end up winning the Grand Slam in Cardiff, I'll make sure I'm there to taste their tears!

Well, I'm not going to gainsay that!...very well put...almost poetic, bloody Welsh...so, no doubt you'll be cheering for the English next weekend....?

pickarooney

LeeroyJones wrote: »

with regards the general european perception of Irish, I tend to see that the Irish arent liked because they speak english, but once its realised that they are Irish and not English most europeans change there tune for the better!

This is hogwash, AFAIC. It's like saying everyone hates the Cypriots, but only as long as they think they're Greeks.

buck65

I think France were probably the better team on Saturday but we often deserved victories in the past and didn't get them so sod them.
I'm still not convinced we're god enough to beat Wales, if we persist in that ridiculous kicking game then we will be handing the Welsh back three a massive bonus.

toomevara

buck65 wrote: »

I'm still not convinced we're god enough to beat Wales, if we persist in that ridiculous kicking game then we will be handing the Welsh back three a massive bonus.

We are more than good enough to beat the Welsh. We were very lucky to beat France on an off day, but tbh, no more than we deserved.

On the strength of yesterdays Scotland game, Wales are massively over hyped...Scotland were frankly daft, played some awful rugby and did everything in their power to hand the game to the Welsh on a platter, but when they did put some phases together in that classic scottish fast rucking style the Welsh struggled to contain them..unfortunately the scots have zero penetration and haven't scored a try in so long that anytime they looked like getting one they fell apart psychologically..its was almost as if they actively didn't want to score a bleedin' try!

Wales to my eye also used some highly illegal blocking runs in their backline throughout the game, and a sharper ref would have made more of it...Don't believe the hype, we can turn them over!

Micky Dolenz

toomevara wrote: »

We are more than good enough to beat the Welsh. We were very lucky to beat France on an off day, but tbh, no more than we deserved.

On the strength of yesterdays Scotland game, Wales are massively over hyped...Scotland were frankly daft, played some awful rugby and did everything in their power to hand the game to the Welsh on a platter, but when they did put some phases together in that classic scottish fast rucking style the Welsh struggled to contain them..unfortunately the scots have zero penetration and haven't scored a try in so long that anytime they looked like getting one they fell apart psychologically..its was almost as if they actively didn't want to score a bleedin' try!

Wales to my eye also used some highly illegal blocking runs in their backline throughout the game, and a sharper ref would have made more of it...Don't believe the hype, we can turn them over!

I agree with everything except that France had an off day, I feel they played brilliantly and we were better. There is nothing better than seeing our backline making breaks and scoring tries.

We can and should beat Wales, It will be a cracker.

Noopti

France were in no way robbed.

Ireland were the better team on the day, simple as. France played really well but Ireland's defense was pretty darn good and our forwards got a stranglehold on them as the game progressed.

This was a typical performance by a team with it's tails up and the mental strength to see off a good team. If this was NZ beating the French we would all be saying how they won it based on typically great team attributes:

1. Good defence
2. Taking the chances when they are presented
3. Knowing how to play the ref (just look at McCaw)
4. Tactical superiority

Ireland were the better team. Nothing more can be read into it.

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

France were in no way robbed.

Ireland were the better team on the day, simple as. France played really well but Ireland's defense was pretty darn good and our forwards got a stranglehold on them as the game progressed.

This was a typical performance by a team with it's tails up and the mental strength to see off a good team. If this was NZ beating the French we would all be saying how they won it based on typically great team attributes:

1. Good defence
2. Taking the chances when they are presented
3. Knowing how to play the ref (just look at McCaw)
4. Tactical superiority

Ireland were the better team. Nothing more can be read into it.

I could read into it pretty easily. :P

Let's look at it from this perspective: France scored two tries, and should have scored more. We created three try-scoring opportunities and took all three. On another day, it could have been 40-30 to France.

Our performance cannot be dismissed as luck, our excellent defence was integral to the result, but claiming we were better than France is a dangerous thing to do. We coped with France - and barely at that - we didn't shut them down, nor did we outplay them (and nor did they outplay us). A magnificent performance needs to be seen as that, but we must not allow it to blind us.

Suddenly, we're all loving Ireland again, and we think this is our year, etc. Let's not kid ourselves - we were always marginal favourites against France, and they came bloody close to clicking and thrashing us. As it stands, our collection of players is probably as talented as any in the 6 Nations - only France have a richer talent pool at the moment, while Wales and us are probably evenly enough matched.

We've a decent shot at the 6 Nations, as we have done for 8 years. We cannot be so arrogant as to start dismissing teams like Italy, let alone declaring Wales as ripe for the plucking.

toomevara

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I agree with everything except that France had an off day,

'Off-day' probably not apt, just not their usual smooth/clinical/opportunistic (and boy did we give them enough opportunity) selves. Put it this way, I'm glad we got them first up, but yep, we were unquestionably the better team on the day...

toomevara

anonymous_joe wrote: »

, let alone declaring Wales as ripe for the plucking.

Not ripe for the plucking, but definitely beatable on what I saw yesterday, contrary to what everyone and his dog would have you believe....

Micky Dolenz

Is it just me, But TOL kicks the ball far too much, I get nervous when he picks the ball out...Why oh why do you kick to a great counter attacking team and give them loads of room to run?

Hugh_C

irishbucsfan wrote: »

and if we do end up winning the Grand Slam in Cardiff, I'll make sure I'm there to taste their tears!

The image of a grown man licking the weeping eyes of Welshmen and women is just too much!

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I could read into it pretty easily. :P

Let's look at it from this perspective: France scored two tries, and should have scored more. We created three try-scoring opportunities and took all three. On another day, it could have been 40-30 to France.

Should've/Could've/Would've.
Means nothing in sport. They didn't.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Our performance cannot be dismissed as luck, our excellent defence was integral to the result, but claiming we were better than France is a dangerous thing to do. We coped with France - and barely at that - we didn't shut them down, nor did we outplay them (and nor did they outplay us). A magnificent performance needs to be seen as that, but we must not allow it to blind us.

Who is being blinded, certainly not me. I said Ireland will win this year and I stand by that. I haven't suddenly decided they will win it based on the weekend.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Suddenly, we're all loving Ireland again, and we think this is our year, etc. Let's not kid ourselves - we were always marginal favourites against France, and they came bloody close to clicking and thrashing us. As it stands, our collection of players is probably as talented as any in the 6 Nations - only France have a richer talent pool at the moment, while Wales and us are probably evenly enough matched.

True some people are loving Ireland all of a sudden. But like I said above, I had confidence in them before this result.
Agree with you on your opinion on our players. Good players and now with good coaches.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

We've a decent shot at the 6 Nations, as we have done for 8 years. We cannot be so arrogant as to start dismissing teams like Italy, let alone declaring Wales as ripe for the plucking.

True, anyone declaring Wales ripe for the plucking is being completely ridiculous!

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

Not ripe for the plucking, but definitely beatable on what I saw yesterday, contrary to what everyone and his dog would have you believe....

Ah yeah, they looked very beatable, but in all fairness, they're as good a team as ours. They only beat us 16-12 last season, there's not a massive gap between the two teams.

We could beat them, but on their day they could beat us.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Is it just me, But TOL kicks the ball far too much, I get nervous when he picks the ball out...Why oh why do you kick to a great counter attacking team and give them loads of room to run?

I think that was a tactical choice from the coach. But it was luck that we didn;t concede more to that team's counter-attacking.

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think that was a tactical choice from the coach. But it was luck that we didn;t concede more to that team's counter-attacking.

You make your own luck.

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

Should've/Could've/Would've.
Means nothing in sport. They didn't.

It doesn't mean nothing.

Their team is clearly good enough to beat anyone, there's no guarentee anyone'll get a Grand Slam this year, and if we do lose a game, I'd install France as favourites fast. ^^

Who is being blinded, certainly not me. I said Ireland will win this year and I stand by that. I haven't suddenly decided they will win it based on the weekend.

I've said Ireland will win it too. I don't want to ignore our faults or our stengths. I'm trying to avoid getting carried away, because winning isn't ever easy.

True some people are loving Ireland all of a sudden. But like I said above, I had confidence in them before this result.
Agree with you on your opinion on our players. Good players and now with good coaches.

Ah yeah, I know a fair number of people had confidence in the team before, but there's also been a lot of doubt that's suddenly turned to blind optimism. Joys of an excitable public. ^^

True, anyone declaring Wales ripe for the plucking is being completely ridiculous!

And that's the problem! We could lose to any of the teams we have to play. England are England, they've some awesome strike runners, Italy minus the Bergamasco fiasco would have only lost 17-11 or so (I know that's a silly way of looking at it) and have an awesome pack and powerful defence, they could grind us down if we're unlucky, Scotland played worse than the Autumn Games showed they can, and Wales have a Grand Slam for a reason. It's an extraordinarily well-balanced competition this year.

A.Partridge

I really enjoyed watching the game on Saturday. I thought it was very tight, sophisticated rugby and played in good spirit between two handy sides. Well done Ireland, hard luck France.

Compare that to the Murrayfield game, which looked like two teams battling it out in the quarter final of the Provincial Towns Cup.:P

Noopti

I agree that Wales will pose a lot of problems, but I honestly cannot see England posing much of a threat unless the guys get ahead of themselves and get over confident, in which case we could cause our own problems. But with Kidney at the helm I can't see this team collapsing mentally.

Scotland are a better team then they showed on Sunday. They will be tough in Edinburgh for sure. Italy did not deserve the score on Saturday, and I agree with your re-adjusted scoreline, however they are not great and England v Italy was the match between the two weakest teams in the tournament in my opinion.

If Ireland go at Italy in a methodical way they should see them off in 2nd/3rd gear. If Ireland go out trying to rush things and be too creative early on then we could have problems. Italy need to be broken down in a structured manner and our forwards will be hugely important in that game.

Latchy

I enjoyed the match on saturday .Nice to get one over on the french and makes up for the loss to them at Croker. Cant remember the last time an Irish side played such free flowing rugby and a good Ref kept the game flowing .