Dublin Spire/Obelisk a masonic/occult symbol in our midst: Why?

Sofa_King Good

"The design concept of the new monument. . .is clearly based on the traditional form of obelisk, which since the 17th century has been one of the most common features of the great ceremonial spaces of European cities."

the Spire's "height is its power, the light is its message".

- Ian Ritchie, London based architect and designer of the Spire

Masons often refer to light as the spreading of truth and knowledge.

Lucifer is also often referred to as the light bringer.

Obelisks originated in Ancient Egypt to the pagan sun god Ra. They symbolised the ending of one civilisation and the beginning of another.

"The female principle, symbolized by the moon, assumed the form of a lunette [small circular opening], or crescent, while the male principle, symbolized by the sun, assumed the form of the lingam [Phallus] and placed himself erect in the center of the lunette, like the mast of a ship."
["Point Within A Circle", Short Talk Bulletin , August, 1931, Masonic Bulletin designed to read within the Lodges, p. 4]

Here is the Dublin Spire. Notice the "lunette"


The fact that it came to be known as "the stiffy by the Liffey" and the "erection at the intersection" etc is proof for me that it has the desired effect on the sub-conscious to the uninitiated. Also, it is worth pointing out that from above it would be viewed as a dot within a circle.

The most famous obelisks in the world are "Cleopatra's needles". In London, New York and Paris.

The London Obelisk was erected in 1878 and New York in May 1879. It was financed by the Freemason Vanderbilt family.

The dates were no coincidence they were due the prophecy of the occultist Trithemius.

"Pursuing his researches through the ages, Trithemius was brought by rigid calculations to the month of November, 1879, as the epoch of the reign of Michael, and the foundation of a new universal kingdom. This kingdom, he foresaw, would be prepared by three and a half centuries of anguishes, and three and a half centuries of hopes, the former period having, as we may consider, its realisation in the dark ages of ignorance and superstition, and the latter in the subsequent period of intellectual awakening and inquiry.

“We see then,” says Eliphas Levi, writing in 1855, “that in twenty-four years, or 1879, there will be founded an universal empire, which will give peace to the world. This empire will be at once political and religious, and will give solution to all the problems which agitate our days, and will last 354 1/3 years.

This universal empire, being under the reign of the sun, will belong to those who hold the (p. 20)
keys of the East. And as these will belong to the nation which at that time takes the lead in intelligence and energy, such nation will have to undergo a crucifixion and martyrdom analogous to those of the Man-God.


But whether dead or alive as a nation, its spirit will triumph, and all the peoples of the earth will follow its standard and recognise its supremacy.”

http://www.anna-kingsford.com/english/Works_by_Anna_Kingsford_and_Maitland/Texts/OAKM-I-End1881-web/OAKM-I-End1881-03.htm

bonkey

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

The most famous obelisks in the world are "Cleopatra's needles". In London, New York and Paris.

The London Obelisk was erected in 1878 and New York in May 1879. It was financed by the Freemason Vanderbilt family.

The dates were no coincidence they were due the prophecy of the occultist Trithemius.

What about the date for the Paris one?

Perhaps more importantly...what about the date for the Dublin one?

Gordon

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

“We see then,” says Eliphas Levi, writing in 1855, “that in twenty-four years, or 1879, there will be founded an universal empire, which will give peace to the world. This empire will be at once political and religious, and will give solution to all the problems which agitate our days, and will last 354 1/3 years.

Which empire is that meant to be?

Saruman

So what does that mean for the Wellington Monument?

Mahatma coat

well the wellington monument was unfinished

but seriously WTF

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

"The design concept of the new monument. . .is clearly based on the traditional form of obelisk, which since the 17th century has been one of the most common features of the great ceremonial spaces of European cities."

the Spire's "height is its power, the light is its message".

C'mon lads surely to god you've seen bertie and the boys conducting secret occult rituals in the middle of O'Connell Street, at midnight on a saturday. Happens all the time. Causes merry hell with the traffic rank down that end towards the Ambassador.

- Ian Ritchie, London based architect and designer of the Spire

Masons often refer to light as the spreading of truth and knowledge.

A better question is, why did the spike, this clear symbol of male sexuality replace the clearly feminine fertility Goddess, that legend says stood their for eons before hand?

Y'know yer wan in the Jacuzzi.

Sofa_King Good

To clarify, I don't believe in any of this hocus pocus nonsense. I am putting forward that members of the occult societies do.

bonkey wrote: »

What about the date for the Paris one?

I don't know about the year, 1836 but it was erected Dec 25th. A pagan festival - saturnalia connected with the winter solstice.

Also France and Britain were enemies at this time, so they would have been competing with each other

bonkey wrote: »

Perhaps more importantly...what about the date for the Dublin one?

Dublin is easier as it was initially intended to be the Millenium Spire

JANUARY 1, 2000 - Inauguration of Golden Age
'The Year 2000, Aiwass [also known as 'Horus, the Egyptian Sun god'] told Alister [sic] Crowley ... would mark the inauguration of a Golden Age when men, ascending to godhood, would banish forever the diseased carcase of antiquated morality." [Texe Marrs, A.D. 2000-Year of Destiny, Power of Prophecy, March 1999]


"...the meeting [of L'Ordre International Chevalvesque Traditional Solare] held in 1952 in the Castle of Arginy...marked the preparation for the final stages of the world revolution...by the year 2000." [Texe Marrs, Dark Majesty, p. 40]


Druid Feast Day - [Fritz Springmeier, The Illuminati Formula, p. 81]
World Peace Party - Robert Muller website
"...Robert Muller... said, 'The time has come to obtain peace on this planet...the United Nations Charter has to be supplemented by a charter of spiritual laws..."' [Dave Hunt, The Seduction of Christianity, Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1986]
Jay Gary: "The watchword for the Year 2000 is a church for every people." [Jay Gary, The Star of 2000, p. 86]


JANUARY 1-3, 2000 - Millennium Symposium on Great Challenges of Our Time
Great Pyramids of Giza in Egypt: The Millennium Symposium is a three-day event sponsored by UNESCO and produced by the Millenium Project of the American Council for the United Nations University. During these three days a host of speakers and workshops will focus on the upcoming global changes facing humanity, including issues of world governance, the creation of a global sustainable society, and the shaping of new planetary security strategies."

And here from Dec 31st 1999


"This massive celebration, involving many of the world's top political and economic leaders, will feature a spectacular multimedia sound and light show designed to welcome in the "golden age" of the new millennium. To cement this New Year's Eve party, a gold covered capstone will be air-lifted and placed on top of the now-capless Great Pyramid of Cheops, symbolizing the dawn of the new occult order. This event hicks off the Millennium Symposium."

Diogenes

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

To clarify, I don't believe in any of this hocus pocus nonsense. I am putting forward that members of the occult societies do.

So to be clear you don't believe in idiotic conspiracy theories you just think that those in charge of the complex and involved consiracy theory in the history of humanity, not only are members of a phemoninally hidden conspiracy theory yet expose themselves constantly.

Does the paradox bother you?

Sofa_King Good

I probably over complicated the subject and didn't explain it so well.

What it comes down to is that there is an obelisk in the main st in our capital city.

An obelisk is an anchíent egyptian tribute to the sun god ra and has been adopted by freemasons.

The question is why is there a masonic pagan structure on our streets?

Sofa_King Good

Diogenes wrote: »

So to be clear you don't believe in idiotic conspiracy theories you just think that those in charge of the complex and involved consiracy theory in the history of humanity, not only are members of a phemoninally hidden conspiracy theory yet expose themselves constantly.

Does the paradox bother you?

No. You?

Saruman

Did the designer know about this and did he care? I would imagine he just thought it was a great design for some reason. He thought he was being artistic? I doubt he has even heard of Ra except from watching stargate

Owen

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

The question is why is there a masonic pagan structure on our streets?

Eh, as a mason, I can tell you it's nothing to do with masonic symbolism at all. The same weak argument could be made for light bulbs in our houses.

Sofa_King Good

ned78 wrote: »

Eh, as a mason, I can tell you it's nothing to do with masonic symbolism at all. The same weak argument could be made for light bulbs in our houses.

Well according to Albert Mackey 33 degree Mason it is a masonic symbol.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/mackeys_encyclopedia/o.htm
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Albert-Mackey

"The obelisk is a quadrangular, monolithic column, diminishing upward, with the sides gently inclined, but not so as to terminate in a pointed apex, but to form at the top a Cattish, pyramidal figure, by which the whole is finished off and brought to a point. It was the most common species of monument in ancient Egypt, where they are still to be found in great numbers, the sides being covered with hieroglyphic inscriptions Obelisks were, it is supposed, originally erected in honor of the sun god. Pliny says (in Holland's translation), "The kings of Egypt in times past made of this stone certain long beams, which they called obelisks, and consecrated them unto the sun, whom they honored as a god; and, indeed, some resemblance they carry of sunbeams." In Continental Freemasonry the monument in the Master's Degree is often made in the form of an obelisk, with the letters M. B. inscribed upon it. And this form is appropriate, because in Masonic, as in Christian iconography, the obelisk is a symbol of the resurrection"

10th April 1880 - From pg 1 of the Weekly Irish Times Archive on the story of the obelisk from Egypt to New York reported:

"Lieutenat-Commander Gorringe of the American Navy( who under the column has found masonic signs)"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/archive/wit/1880/0410/Pg001.html#Ar00116:9AE5E79E05FB90A5AB9345BF91174793B75A8DB780905794966A26991A399AE6319E06459A87BC9D97D09208FE9519119114AF95B4C789958F8C35A299564E9C366290670C93171F899B3D8C4B508EB92A91E93E8E39BF9169D2

meglome

So how do you figure the spire is anything like an obelisk? And how do obelisks built by the Egyptians thousands of years ago relate to the masons? Well other than they liked the look of them long after they were built.

Sofa_King Good

meglome wrote: »

So how do you figure the spire is anything like an obelisk? .

See the first post, the designer describes it as an obelisk.
And how do obelisks built by the Egyptians thousands of years ago relate to the masons? Well other than they liked the look of them long after they were built.[/quote]


Freemasonry (at least some of its more prominent members has documented roots in alchemy, astrology, and the occult in general who worship the ancient pagan gods.


There is a website findagrave.com or something like that. Here you can see prominent masons, or not so prominent who have obelisks for headstones. Some not all, but you would be hard pressed to find an obelisk on the graves of the unitiated.

,8,1

A better question is, why did the spike, this clear symbol of male sexuality replace the clearly feminine fertility Goddess, that legend says stood their for eons before hand?

Not really as the Bablyonian Mystery Religion (where these Masonic obelisks originate) is Pagan, and is based on both male and female fertility worship.

It is ultimately, as with most things Pagan, a Goddess based cult.

Diogenes

,8,1 wrote: »

Not really as the Bablyonian Mystery Religion (where these Masonic obelisks originate) is Pagan, and is based on both male and female fertility worship.

It is ultimately, as with most things Pagan, a Goddess based cult.

You're not very good at spotting sarcasm are you?

,8,1

There's a difference between sarcasm and writing incoherently, which you were.

user1986

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

The question is why is there a masonic pagan structure on our streets?

forgive my ignorance but dosn't calling the spire masonic and pagan kind of conflict? i just want that clarified.

Undergod

The fact that obelisk and obelisk-shaped things are such striking and enduring images means that any connection to Masonry, Ra-worship or Mesopotamian mystery religions is pretty meaningless. People build tall thin things because they like how they look, not in worship of Baphomet, or as male fertility symbols.

My infant nephews build towers of blocks. They are not Masons.

suey71

Listen lads, stop all this bickering.
Heres what I heard.
The State had a couple of million quid from a drug swoop/CAB money and asked some English Arty type to design a Monument for O'Connell St.

Looking for inspiration, he asked where did the money come from?
He was told, "from Drug Dealers". So he said,"Great, I'll build a giant needle."

Out there, I know, but I'd say true.

Penn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

the Spire's "height is its power, the light is its message".

- Ian Ritchie, London based architect and designer of the Spire

Masons often refer to light as the spreading of truth and knowledge.

Lucifer is also often referred to as the light bringer.

Wow. I'm off to get all the lightbulbs in my house and throw them at the Sun.

God is also known as the light. God created light. God is the light, Lucifer is the darkness. All sorts of religions believe all sorts of things, and most of them conflict with each other. Hell, the same religion sometimes conflicts with other parts of it. Doesn't mean that the Spire is something demonic

Penn

Also, the artist says the design of the Spire is based on the design of an obelisk. But there are huge differences between them. From Wikipedia:

An obelisk is a tall, narrow, four-sided, tapering monument which ends in a pyramid-like shape at the top. Ancient obelisks were oftenmonolithic whereas most modern obelisks are made of individual stones, and can even have interior spaces.

Now, I don't know why the artist said it was based on an obelisk, because it is nothing like an obelisk.

6th

suey71 wrote: »

Listen lads, stop all this bickering.
Heres what I heard.
The State had a couple of million quid from a drug swoop/CAB money and asked some English Arty type to design a Monument for O'Connell St.

Looking for inspiration, he asked where did the money come from?
He was told, "from Drug Dealers". So he said,"Great, I'll build a giant needle."

Out there, I know, but I'd say true.

Well not true at all thought. I was studying sculpture in college at the time and was very aware of the process for the moment. It was open to application and I know some people personally who put submissions forward.

There we strict guidelines but what is weird is that Ritchie didnt follow the rules and shouldn't have been considered. Also I know that while he should only have gotten about €10k in advance he actually got somewhere in the region of €30k - again definitely not the norm.

Just to note that one of the guidelines was for it to incorporate a view platform of sorts.

Penn

6th wrote: »

Well not true at all thought. I was studying sculpture in college at the time and was very aware of the process for the moment. It was open to application and I know some people personally who put submissions forward.

There we strict guidelines but what is weird is that Ritchie didnt follow the rules and shouldn't have been considered. Also I know that while he should only have gotten about €10k in advance he actually got somewhere in the region of €30k - again definitely not the norm.

Just to note that one of the guidelines was for it to incorporate a view platform of sorts.

Really? Now see, this is interesting. Do you think that they wanted a view platform in whatever the final design was in order to charge people to go up? If so, I wonder what made them change their minds, as with the funding you pointed out.

robtri

6th wrote: »

There we strict guidelines but what is weird is that Ritchie didnt follow the rules and shouldn't have been considered. Also I know that while he should only have gotten about €10k in advance he actually got somewhere in the region of €30k - again definitely not the norm.

Just to note that one of the guidelines was for it to incorporate a view platform of sorts.

can you elaborate on what the official guidelines where ??

Also I thought paying more money than is neccessary was common place for the government on projects :rolleyes:

watty

Occult? Who knows

Stupid waste of money? yes.

Masonic? Doubtful. They are a pretty secretive & conservative bunch, probably too shiny and sleek. Are Masons pagan? Well, maybe, depends on your definition of pagan. It's not a Christian organisation or denomintation, though some may claim to be Christians.

thebman

Its the worlds biggest flag pole, nothing more.

Waste of the little space it does occupy if you ask me.

We could have had something nice instead of a spike

6th

robtri wrote: »

can you elaborate on what the official guidelines where ??

Also I thought paying more money than is neccessary was common place for the government on projects :rolleyes:

I cant find links to the guidelines but heres a good link to info about Ritchie and the winning entry: http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/northcity/oconnell_street/spire_competition/index.html

Kernel

watty wrote: »

Masonic? Doubtful. They are a pretty secretive & conservative bunch, probably too shiny and sleek. Are Masons pagan? Well, maybe, depends on your definition of pagan. It's not a Christian organisation or denomintation, though some may claim to be Christians.

Masons are agnostic. And they aren't overly secretive when it comes to architecture if you look into it. Masonic symbolism (blatant at times) is evident all over the world, but is often unrecognised by the profane.

Santa Claus

I thought it was an antennae so out reptilian overlords could communicate with their home planet ??