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Isn't science supposed to contradict religion?

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    #122
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CDfm wrote: »
    You left out an "n" in uninformed - have another go

    Correcting my grammar will not lessen the point I made. In fact, its the first sign of the defeated.

    You were talking utter nonsense.


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    #123
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Correcting my grammar will not lessen the point I made. In fact, its the first sign of the defeated.

    You were talking utter nonsense.
    Go easy on him, he is practicaly on our side. The theists give him more stick than we do. :D

    MrP


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    #124
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Go easy on him, he is practicaly on our side. The theists give him more stick than we do. :D

    MrP

    He started it.

    :P


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    #125
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Correcting my grammar will not lessen the point I made. In fact, its the first sign of the defeated.

    You were talking utter nonsense.

    In fairness, he left the 'n' out first.


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    #126
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    In fairness, he left the 'n' out first.

    Quality.


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    #127
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    He started it.

    :P

    God started it


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    #128
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CDfm wrote: »
    God started it

    :pac:


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    #129
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    CDfm wrote: »
    God started it

    Wheres your proof?


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    #130
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    MatthewVII wrote: »
    Do you honestly believe in this day and age that any patients are enrolled in drug trials against their wills?

    Well Matthew if drug tests are so compliant -what in your view are the restrictions put in place by Irish Hospitals on drug trials and why dont certain hospitals participate?

    Does this in any way restrict the the facilities or funding to hospitals i.e. is there money,drugs or what available for getting involved in the research.

    Its been suggested here that pregnancy and that particular study on breast cancer drugs wouldn't have been compatable. Did that mean oral contraception or whatever was part of the treatment or was contraception a side effect of the drug treatment.

    Lets have the skinny as I am totally in the dark on this one.


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    #131
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Burgo wrote: »
    Wheres your proof?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=333


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    #132
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    In fairness, he left the 'n' out first.

    It is true correcting grammar is the first sign of the defeated. Nice of Flaming to admit it.:P


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    #133
    chris.henshaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭chris.henshaw


    Vampireskiss wrote: »
    There would be little need for faith otherwise which is the whole point?

    Science is a collection of theories that attempt to explain our world. The theories and supporting evidence must be verifiable and testable. Belief systems generally include a deity whose presence is, ultimately unprovable.

    No, science doesn't necessarily contradict religion. Religious believer depend on a completely different set of values than pure scientists. For a Christian, truth comes from the Bible. For a scientist, "truth" comes from theories that haven't been proven wrong yet.


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    #134
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    chris.henshaw wrote: »
    Science is a collection of theories that attempt to explain our world. The theories and supporting evidence must be verifiable and testable. Belief systems generally include a deity whose presence is, ultimately unprovable.

    No, science doesn't necessarily contradict religion. Religious believer depend on a completely different set of values than pure scientists. For a Christian, truth comes from the Bible. For a scientist, "truth" comes from theories that haven't been proven wrong yet.

    Science does a bit more. Medical science is very positive,as is agricultural science,as is building technoligy.

    A successful scientist probably needs to be ruthlessly sceptical and hopelessly optimistic.So the skills and attributes that make a good scientist will make a person a professional cynic.

    Scientists improve and explain a lot.There is going to be an overlap on moral and ethical issues-with religion.Reading up on it is sometimes is restricted by religous beliefs or so atheists tell me. I can't see why some believers can't accept scientific facts as part of beliefs-like there were no dinosaurs. I think its kinda cool there were dinosaurs.

    As a believer ,I can't buy into any of the creationist stuff. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with the idea that certain of my fellow believers may be on power trips and not contributing to the development of medical science and may actually impede it.No one is posting that it ain't true.


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    #135
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I came up with this guy Georges Lamaitre a Begian RC Priest who originated the Big Bang theory only to get slagged off by Einstein -contemporaries and buddies

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Obviously he was not a Creationist.


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    #136
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CDfm wrote: »
    I came up with this guy Georges Lamaitre a Begian RC Priest who originated the Big Bang theory only to get slagged off by Einstein -contemporaries and buddies

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Obviously he was not a Creationist.

    What is your point?


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    #137
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    CDfm wrote: »
    Obviously he was not a Creationist.
    Obviously he wasn't a golfer, either.

    Not sure what your point is though.


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    #138
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    What is your point?

    My point being that religion and science are not mutually exclusive. To be one is not to automatically to be anti the other. Scientific research is not restricted by Christian beliefs.This guy didnt see incompatability.

    Lamaitre was a RC priest and academic who was created a Monsignor by Pope John XXIII - the priestly equivalent of being made a knight or honours equivalent to a Bishop normally on the recomendation of Bishops. So he wasn't excommunicated or anything.

    So I wonder where the belief system arises from that they are.

    I can get some concerns on moral issues but on the bigger picture I can't see it.


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    #139
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Dades wrote: »
    Obviously he wasn't a golfer, either.

    Not sure what your point is though.

    I am not trying to make a point - after reading up on it - I am trying to tie up a few loose ends for myself.


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    #140
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CDfm wrote: »
    My point being that religion and science are not mutually exclusive. To be one is not to automatically to be anti the other. Scientific research is not restricted by Christian beliefs.This guy didnt see incompatability.

    Lamaitre was a RC priest and academic who was created a Monsignor by Pope John XXIII - the priestly equivalent of being made a knight or honours equivalent to a Bishop normally on the recomendation of Bishops. So he wasn't excommunicated or anything.

    So I wonder where the belief system arises from that they are.

    I can get some concerns on moral issues but on the bigger picture I can't see it.

    Ok. But to believe that the big bang model explains the origin of the universe and to believe that God made it, just like in the bible, requires one to abandon certain faculties/assumptions of either explanation. In other words, you are implicitly rejecting one, even if you don't admit it.


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    #141
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Ok. But to believe that the big bang model explains the origin of the universe and to believe that God made it, just like in the bible, requires one to abandon certain faculties/assumptions of either explanation. In other words, you are implicitly rejecting one, even if you don't admit it.

    I don't see that. What am rejecting?


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    #142
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CDfm wrote: »
    I don't see that. What am rejecting?

    Bible says the universe was made by God, as per Genesis.

    Big bang model says universe was made by naturalistic means, not like Genesis.

    To choose to believe both, means you must pull away some assumptions of either. Such as:

    1) Big bang model holds, but is supernatural

    2) Big bang model holds, but genesis is allegory

    etc, etc.

    I think this is a cop-out. Either god made the universe, according to your magic tome, or it didn't happen that way. I don't think you can have both.


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    #143
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Bible says the universe was made by God, as per Genesis.

    Big bang model says universe was made by naturalistic means, not like Genesis.



    Big bang model holds, but genesis is allegory



    Don't blame me for the apparent inconsistancies of it.

    The Big Bang Model was put together by a priest and Einstein eventually agreed with the physics of it.Its now generally accepted.

    Catholics have always read Genisis as allegorical- and thats how I was taught it by a Catholic Priest in a Catholic School.

    You really do drill down the issues.:pac:


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    #144
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Flamed Diving wrote: »

    I think this is a cop-out. Either god made the universe, according to your magic tome, or it didn't happen that way. I don't think you can have both.
    The Big Bang Model has some holes, or gaps if you will. This give a god of gaps somewhere to hide. While these gaps exist the big bang model will be compatible with the religious as it can be argued that one does not necessarily discount the other.

    As time goes on, and science hopefully closes these gaps, this god of gaps will lose another of its hiding places and be relegated to part of the universe where are knowledge is, at that time, incomplete. Then, some of the religious will obviously argue that the Big Bang Theory is wrong. The others, they are the ones that currently argue that religion and science are compatible, will point to the new gap in scientific knowledge and insist that their god lives there.

    And so it continues. There will probably always be somewhere for this god of gaps to exist for those that need it.

    MrP


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    #145
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    MrPudding wrote: »

    As time goes on, and science hopefully closes these gaps, this god of gaps will lose another of its hiding places and be relegated to part of the universe

    Mr P -it will never happen as the Universe keeps expanding:D

    Your physics is all wrong.


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