Losing your faith in God

KieranKennedy

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

robindch

KieranKennedy wrote: »

If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about.

Depends really on how you look at it -- it can be either a "crisis of faith" (on the inside, looking out) or a "realization concerning religious beliefs" (on the outside, looking in).

I had one of the latter some years back and resolved it by abandoning religious belief altogether, both as a concept with a value in itself, and also as a prism through which one can usefully refract and comprehend one's life experiences. The world has made far more sense since I left religion behind.

(also in Sandymount )

normar

KieranKennedy wrote: »

..... I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. .... If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Hi Kieran,

It is in the nature of humans to question. I think it is a healthy sign that you do so. The end result will either be a stronger faith because you have tried to answer these difficult questions yourself, or come to a realization that religion is not for you.

The result I choose myself was that Religion was not for me and and I'm both content and happy with that decision. My "crisis of faith" was somewhat like your own, a struggle for answers about the relationship between god and me. However it was actually brought to a head by an incident I watched develop while working on the board of management of a church run school.

In short I watched unquestioned wrongdoing in the school and though the issue was raised by some of the parents to the church authorities, it was ignored. I subsequently watched the priest standby this wrongdoing. He later admitted to me he had to do this because he had taken a vow of obedience to his church. I recognize only too well that there are always two sides to a story but that was my experience. What this experience taught me very forcefully was that the church is in reality simply a male dominated human organization, and it will protect itself at a cost to others if necessary.

Since then I have given up my "faith" in religion and in gods and in the supernatural in general. I can say that I am much the better for it. I have adopted Humanist values and what good I try to do in my everyday life I do not in the expectation of rewards or because of the fear of " eternal damnation in the god created flames of hellfire" of the next life, but because it is a human thing to do anyway, and the right thing to do of its own merit

But Kieran there is more to it. I have set my colours firmly on the door of the rational. I have come to accept more firmly as I grow older the truths and principles that empirical science has given us. Indeed all religions are totally unlike science. For me science and the rationalist viewpoint will continually question and test its values and assumptions against empirical evidence, available to all, and it will discard those assumptions and values which are found wanting or false in favor of better ones as they arise.. No religion will ever do that.

Lest I am criticized on this issue I want to say that I accept that science does not have all the answers. Indeed far from it. But at least it continues to seek out answers to the important questions, and will lay these answers open for all to reproduce. Each of the myriad of "revealed" religions only offer dogma. Geology and evolution factually and demonstrably show that the biblical flood did not occur, that life evolved over a thousand million years in time and did not multiply since the ark. The microscope can demonstrate that genetic mutation of life actually happens in real time. Religion "teaches" the opposite. If you have not already done so may I suggest you read the first five books of the Bible and learn for yourself of the story of the needless godly instigated butchery and superstition that lies within. I found myself simply unable indeed unwilling to accept such a story of barbarism and superstition as a model for my life.

So Kieran you must decide for yourself where your path lies. I have made my decision to go with the rational. God knows I have been happier for it.

kelly1

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Hello Kieran, it's possible that God is testing the strength of your faith. Whatever you do, don't stop praying (especially for faith). In times of doubt, say the Our Father slowly and attentively. I would also recommend reading biographies of the saints for inspriation.

Remember that Jesus prophesied a widespread loss of faith in the latter times, so don't be among them! I'll pray for you.

God bless,
Noel.

Húrin

I agree, prayer for faith is the right thing to do. Reading the Gospels, and reabsorbing their groundbreaking message is very helpful too.

I would also recommend reading works of contemporary theology, apologetics and philosophy. It's hard to recommend without knowing your particular problems, but I like the work of Alister McGrath (2004, particularly), John Stott, N.T. Wright, Oswald Chambers and Alastair McIntosh (2008). Christian philosophers that write well include Gabriel Marcel, Soren Kierkegaard, Rene Girard and Alvin Plantinga. Check out the books thread, 'tis a sticky.

I think that in our society a lot of people lose faith because of widely publicised atheist arguments, which are not that strong, but appear to be so because the level of theistic arguments and refutations that most people know are almost childishly basic.

Fanny Cradock

I wouldn't see it as a test, Kelly. It is more likely Kieran, that you are beginning to question the very foundation of your beliefs for the first time. Or possibly there are so many unanswered questions knocking around your head that it has all begun to reach a sort of critical mass. In the book The Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis referred to this waxing and waning of faith as the Law of Undulation. It happens!

Questioning what it is that you really is that you believe is essential to any considered faith - non-belief included.

If it's OK with you, I will share a little of my rather unremarkable journey through faith. For many years I had been Christian, but one with some very nebulous and insipid beliefs. Actually, back then if anyone had bothered to asked me about my faith - and the manner in which I lived my life would have given few reason to enquire - I would have described myself as a non-practising Christian. In other words, I really wasn't sure about the very foundations of my not so apparent 'faith'. And on those rare occasions I felt the need to discuss my faith it meant falling back on convention - which was not the same as actually investigating it for myself.

From my mid-teens to my early twenties I lived in this way. Then, slowly, over a period of many months, I felt compelled to abandon my very brief flirtation with Buddhism and investigate my 'sometimes Christian faith' more thoroughly. Was this a divine calling? I don't know! But it certainly felt like a calling.

The road has hardly been smooth since then! C.S Lewis' Law of Undulation certainly applies to me. But after a long and rational look at my Christian foundation (yes, religious people can be rational, too) - and I'm talking about investigating the bible and the very precepts of Christianity, not religious institutions like the RCC or Protestantism - I am now no longer a 'sometimes Christian', I'm simply a Christian. And the thing is I am so much happier for it.

normar is quite correct, though! You should use all the resources available to investigate the foundations of your faith (including prayer). There are also many people out there willing to offer their support and opinions.

From a Christian perspective, may I suggest attending either an Alpha Course or a Life Course may prove very beneficial. Both of these are non-denominational courses designed for people who have big questions about Christianity but no answers. I went on a Life Course a while back and found it very informative and relaxing. You don't pay anything or hand over the deeds to your house - you just engage with other people who may be in the same boat in attempts to better understand Christianity. If it sounds like something you might be interested in the just send my a PM.

sorella

So many throw the Baby away with the bathwater..

Stay at peace with where you are at; and leave Jesus room to move.

We are not clones or robots. Often growth comes after these times.

Wary re the theology; the gospels are more than enough.

And serving with a Christian group eg Salvation Army, gives a depth and reality to our faith.

We tend to think too much, with sad results.

Blessings

toiletduck

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Well you're not alone. I'm sure many/most of the posters here (and on A&A) have gone through similar stuff. It can be unsettling, especially coming a strong faith stance.

I went through it a good few years ago. It ended me with abandoning religion.

sorella wrote:

We tend to think too much, with sad results.

Riight

Húrin

sorella wrote: »

And serving with a Christian group eg Salvation Army, gives a depth and reality to our faith.

I couldn't agree more with this one... it's really important and there is a great choice of such groups here in Ireland. Living and preaching* the Gospels makes them so much more important in one's mind.


*I don't mean shouting on the street, I mean being open about your faith to others

sorella wrote: »

Stay at peace with where you are at; and leave Jesus room to move.

We are not clones or robots. Often growth comes after these times.

Wary re the theology; the gospels are more than enough.

We tend to think too much, with sad results.

I see your point here and it is a good one. However I think for some people I logical thinking is not destructive to faith, but is an aid to it. I'm sure the God calls some of us to be defenders of the faith. For that, apologists not only need to be seen to live and thus reify the Gospels, but also to discuss and defend them on an intellectual level equal to that of non/anti-Christians.

anonymous_joe

In all fairness, you said you're the only one of your immediate family/friends who is still going regularly.

I'd hardly consider myself a practicing Catholic. For the first time ever, Irish people are questioning their faith. Ask yourself what you believe, and if you want, seek out discussion groups or somethin.

Oh and big up the Sandymount massive. :pac:

Soul Winner

Pray to God first and foremost, ask Him for help, be specific tell him verbally what the problems are, involve yourself in service to the ministry and talk to others. Also I would say to meditate on the Psalms, especially David’s Psalms, read Paul’s Epistles and read the Gospel of John.


Here's William Lane Craig on "Dealing with Doubt" which I think is quite helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fDyPU3wlQ

sorella

Húrin wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with this one... it's really important and there is a great choice of such groups here in Ireland. Living and preaching* the Gospels makes them so much more important in one's mind.


*I don't mean shouting on the street, I mean being open about your faith to others

I know what you mean; and you are so right...


I see your point here and it is a good one. However I think for some people I logical thinking is not destructive to faith, but is an aid to it. I'm sure the God calls some of us to be defenders of the faith. For that, apologists not only need to be seen to live and thus reify the Gospels, but also to discuss and defend them on an intellectual level equal to that of non/anti-Christians.

yes, IF they live it too; but many theologians lose their basic faith.

And when you get to 92, you see things very differently. Time and human needs matter so much more.

But I never did bother with any theology. More direct:)

Thinking way back; did not CS Lewis and St Augustine try the intellectual way; then God just hit them.??

sorella

They should be questioning their faith in RC hierarchy, yes they need to do that. Boy, is that needful.

But not their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God.

Maybe the advent of more Polish priests will help.

Blessings...


I'd hardly consider myself a practicing Catholic. For the first time ever, Irish people are questioning their faith. Ask yourself what you believe, and if you want, seek out discussion groups or somethin.

Oh and big up the Sandymount massive. :pac:[/quote]

JohnGalt

Faith is not a virtue

Fanny Cradock

Very insightful!

Mickeroo

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

I had a crisis of faith once too, i had pretty strong belief when i was a child but as i got older my beliefs weakened and my mind grew, I stopped believing in things and started asking questions,questions which religion in all it's guises had no answer to. I decided when you look at life rationally that god just doesn't fit, and the more you learn about the way the world actually works the more the veil lifts and the more you see, and because theres nobody pulling the strings it makes everything seem all the more beautiful.

Either way, i hope you figure it out.

Borneo Fnctn

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello Kieran, it's possible that God is testing the strength of your faith.

That is such a load of bollox. The man is thinking rationally for possibly the first time in this regard and you want him to smother and suppress logic. That's the way the church taught me and I've had enough of it. I'm quite bitter about being "short changed" by the church for so many years.

philologos

I think people need to think about their faith, and not to ignore the possibility that it may well be true as well as false. I've had many doubts, and I've had to think about issues and it is true that sometimes it can feel that God is far away. However, through seeking the Scriptures, and seeking what Christian explanations there are as well as what atheists are seeming to suggest, you will gain a firm ground. Life unfortunately throws it's challenges at us, but the question of how long you will prevail is if you think it is worth getting back up. I think and I thought then that it was worth it, as Christ thought it was worth it to save me.

sorella

Amen to this.

Bitterness is no ground for any life.

We all endure doubt; we are not machines and our bodies affect mind and soul.

Faith is faith; in things unseen. Faith in Jesus, not in any Church system.

This for us is where active service is a blessing to us; we know that when we are nurturing others who have nothing, that we are doing the work of Jesus. So then we are physically living our faith, however we feel.

And our life in Jesus IS for others, as His is for us. Self matters not now. As it did not for Jesus.

We cannot ever live on a cloud... Living Jesus in this world can be a hard struggle. But the joy of it is utterly real.

Teresa of Avila, speaks of "patient endurance".... simply hold on and pray and let others pray for you.

Blessings this bitter cold night.

Jakkass wrote: »

I think people need to think about their faith, and not to ignore the possibility that it may well be true as well as false. I've had many doubts, and I've had to think about issues and it is true that sometimes it can feel that God is far away. However, through seeking the Scriptures, and seeking what Christian explanations there are as well as what atheists are seemign to suggest, you will gain a firm ground. Life unfortunately throws it's challenges at us, but the question of how long you will prevail is if you think it is worth getting back up. I think and I thought then that it was worth it, as Christ thought it was worth it to save me.

sorella

If I am alone in finding this langauge offensive, then you must excuse an old Nun......

OK: we hear you.. but

and I am going to shout..

THE CHURCH IS NOT JESUS.

OK?
OK.

If you are saying that you put your trust in a human insititution, and not in the Lord Jesus Christ? Then you have shot yourself in the foot.

Trust and faith IS in Jesus; you have a mind of your own? You can read the Gospels and see what Jesus actually teaches?

If the Church has hurt you; please may we apologise here for that?

We do this so often.

We are not an Irish Order so we see things as from the outside.

The Irish RCC is crashing in spectacular fashion.

Last year only nine men were ordained; some of those are elderly/disabled.

Same is true of Irish Religious Orders; dying at an increasing rate.

God will not renew where there is corruption.

In ten years or less, as one PP has said openly, the only priests here will be African or Polish.

And the only Religious? Incomers also.
Irish women will not join any of the Orders here; when the long delayed HSE Audit finally comes out, all will see why. This is the Audit of each Orders abuse;not simply sexual but physical etc.

Irish women with vocations go overseas now.

And see these guys:)
http://www.franciscanfriars.com/europe/
They are doing great things in Limerick.

The RCC here has again shot themselves in the foot by not deposing McGee of Cloyne.
Major error...

Many know this... see my weblog a week or so ago where the posts from clerical whispers are featured. This is an Irish priest who pulls no punches. At present a poll "Do you trust the Irish Bishops?"...
http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/

Scroll down the articles at the right..


If you choose to be bitter and angry? Your choice.

We had a conversation some few years ago atop the Slive League cliffs with some Germans; we wear the "old" Monastic habit so this tends to happen.

They said they are Christians.. "BUT THE CHURCH!!"

We wholeheartedly agreed.. But asked, " Do you believe in Jesus?"

"Yes"

"Then for now forget about the Church; pray and read the Bible at home together"

Because THE CHURCH IS NOT JESUS.

It makes errors in practice.

it is fine to question that; but to throw the Baby away with the bathwater makes little sense.

And, really, if you do that then you are letting bad win?

Your choice.

Ours to know and love the Lord Jesus Christ and put our trust in Him. As rational intelligent human beings....

OK: off now to shovel snow:)

Blessings this day!!


Blessings this night

jackpalance wrote: »

That is such a load of bollox. The man is thinking rationally for possibly the first time in this regard and you want him to smother and suppress logic. That's the way the church taught me and I've had enough of it. I'm quite bitter about being "short changed" by the church for so many years.

Phototoxin

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Mine isn't resolved despite questioning for 2 years and I've been what I would describe as without faith for 6 months since then.

I'm told that they are important as you faith will mature from them. But its not nice the whole one step back 2 step forward especially if it happens a lot. I've had many minor crises as part of this big one I'm still going through and all I can say is that you need to be open minded and consider all possibilities. (including that its all rubbish/a lie - scary as that seems it is a possibility)

And see these guys
http://www.franciscanfriars.com/europe/
They are doing great things in Limerick.

they are a pleasant radical down to earth bunch alright I've met a couple last summer.

and sr sorella you're faith is quite inspiring

*I don't mean shouting on the street, I mean being open about your faith to others

but that's the fun part - it freaks out the norms !
(joking btw)

sorella

Morning!

Gee; Donegal is COLD.


Opps; made a mess of this interleaving; hope you can decipher it; too cold to type anymore.
Sorry....

Phototoxin wrote: »

Mine isn't resolved despite questioning for 2 years and I've been what I would describe as without faith for 6 months since then.

That is OK; do you think we do not get times like that? Faith is often blind. It is in its nature to be so.

This is when you let others with faith "carry" you; this is why we all need community of some kind. We are the Body of Christ; when one hurts, we are all wounded.

I'm told that they are important as you faith will mature from them. But its not nice the whole one step back 2 step forward especially if it happens a lot. I've had many minor crises as part of this big one I'm still going through and all I can say is that you need to be open minded and consider all possibilities. (including that its all rubbish/a lie - scary as that seems it is a possibility)

No it is as you say "not nice"; this too is normal.
If you know Jesus - apart from any denom etc then you hold close to Him then.
For me, the great benefit of once living ten years as a hermit in an isolated place with no books save the Bible, no Church access orl fellowship and a lot of anti Christian stuff against me, was that it meant I relied totally on Jesus, once the hard time was over.

And there was a hard time, believe me.

But the reality of Jesus came fully home then, when there was no human help to be had.

Desolation wil bear fruit.
IF you stay with it and know it for what it is.

People however divinely inspired, will always " fail"; they grow old or weak and we honour that and we have great compassion for that.

Because we too will age and weaken and "fail"

they are a pleasant radical down to earth bunch alright I've met a couple last summer.

Lucky man' they at least get their hands dirty as we also do.

and sr sorella you're faith is quite inspiring

Not me; Jesus. Do not look to me; look through and beyond to Him; He is Lord and Life and Light.

but that's the fun part - it freaks out the norms !
(joking btw)

lol! and yes, it does. And not easy in this world. This is why Nuns live behind locked gates. We meet "the world" at its point of need - and ours.

But it also is as natural as breathing to us.

Blessings this day... always blessings and always prayer.

Black Swan

KieranKennedy wrote: »

If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about.

Like most Irish I was raised Catholic. As I got older I began to doubt the liturgy and drifted away. Now I don't know what I am (lapsed Catholic, agnostic, atheist, whatever?), having replaced one set of doubts with another.

sorella

Simple; you are a Beloved Child of God, who He loves immeasurably, unequivocally, unconditionally...Beyond all belief:) But believe it...

Blessings this day....

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Like most Irish I was raised Catholic. As I got older I began to doubt the liturgy and drifted away. Now I don't know what I am (lapsed Catholic, agnostic, atheist, whatever?), having replaced one set of doubts with another.

MrPudding

sorella wrote: »

THE CHURCH IS NOT JESUS.

I think most people realise this. I would expect what happened, as it was in my case, is the initial questioning comes from losing faith in the church. You begin to question the church, and you find it lacking. Then you begin to question how, if he indeed exists, god would allow such a despicable organisation to represent him here on earth.

So from the initial questioning of the church you move on to bigger questions. This is how it worked for me. I questioned the church, then I questioned god. I found no satisfactory answers. I know the church is not god or Jesus, I simply don't believe in any of it.

MrP

Tim Robbins

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God.

You should question everything not just a belief in God. It's a healthy way to live and keep your brain active.

I'm an atheist but would have some religious sympathy, in that I think I can understand why it's there and I try not to have too much of a problem with it, even though that can be tough at times.

You're obviously a smart fellow, so one suggestion to you would be to check out other smart people who do believe in a higher power. This may mean accepting that one religion and only one religion is the truth is probably improbable and that religions at best are just cultural representatives to connect to and express divinity.

Some people you might like to check out:
1. Robert Beckford. Liberal Anglican Christian.
2. Pete Owen-Jones. Liberal Anglican Christian.
3. Karen Armstrong. X - Nun but now more generic spirituality.
4. Robert Winston. Jewish Scientist. Does a lot of Science documentaries and believes in a higher power.

Good Luck.

Min

Having doubt is natural, Thomas, the disciple of Jesus also had his moment of doubt.

MatthewVII

Min wrote: »

Having doubt is natural, Thomas, the disciple of Jesus also had his moment of doubt.

Of course Thomas had the luxury of having Jesus show up and ask him to look at his hands and put his fingers into the wound on his side. Modern people who question their faith have no such beacon to rally around.

Pamela111

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Hello Kieran,

Have you by any chance fallen into mortal sin? When was your last confession?

I find fasting, confession/reconcilation and regular Mass the best ways to overcome any spiritual problem. I think that all 3 are very important. Also, my past lack of respect for the church's rules on morality, contraception etc led me down a very bad path and led me into mortal sin in a major way. Now I realise that the fundamental teachings are correct and to disobey them means mortal sin.

When you have doubts its important to make a full truthful confession and to change the ways even if your intellect or human reasoning says otherwise.

Also, as someone mentioned this could be a trial from God to test your faith.

Please let us know how you get on and maybe consider talking to a good priest who has an experience with spiritual advice i.e. get a spiritual director.

Pamela111

sorella wrote: »

THE CHURCH IS NOT JESUS.

But it is the Church of Jesus Christ. The fundamental teachings and the Holy sacremants are essential.

matthew/16-18: And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

sorella wrote: »

If you are saying that you put your trust in a human insititution, and not in the Lord Jesus Christ? Then you have shot yourself in the foot.

Trust and faith IS in Jesus; you have a mind of your own? You can read the Gospels and see what Jesus actually teaches?

Matthew 18:18 - "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

As far as I can see the Holy Mass is the greatest praise that you can give Jesus. It is where we offer up our sacrifices to Jesus for our sins and ask for Mercy. At every Mass Jesus is crucified in front of us.

See: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/liturgy/masspower.htm

"When we receive Holy Communion, we experience something extraordinary - a joy, a fragrance, a well being that thrills the whole body and causes it to exalt." "If we really understood the Mass, we would die of joy."
"There is nothing so great as the Eucharist. If God had something more precious, He would have given it to us."
"When we have been to Holy Communion, the balm of love envelops the soul as the flower envelops the bee." - St. John Vianney


It is also worth seeing the Eucharistic Miracles:
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html


I would have agreed with you a short time ago, all I did was pray. Now I know the power of the sacrements of confession and Mass. Fasting, I find, is also powerful especially before Mass and then to participate in Mass and to stay afterwards in thanks.

This is my understanding, please correct me if I said anything wrong or sinful. I ask for your help in finding the right information. Regardless of what we think of a priest or the Church in general we must obey the fundamentals and we must get the sacrements of Confession and Holy Mass as regular as possible.

God Bless,

Phototoxin

we must only get mass on sundays and holy days of obligation.
confession 1 per year is reccomened around easter
communion is minimum once per year around easter time.

100 years ago it wasn't uncommon for people not to get eucharist due to the fasting regulations and the fact that working men needed to eat.

This is when you let others with faith "carry" you; this is why we all need community of some kind. We are the Body of Christ; when one hurts, we are all wounded.

Community. Don't make me laugh. I can honestly say that there is more community in my GFs church which I have attended about 4 times 300 miles away in a different country than in one of the 3 parish churches here.

If you know Jesus - apart from any denom etc then you hold close to Him then.

I don't particularly identify wiht/relate to jess

You should question everything not just a belief in God. It's a healthy way to live and keep your brain active.

+1

Of course Thomas had the luxury of having Jesus show up and ask him to look at his hands and put his fingers into the wound on his side. Modern people who question their faith have no such beacon to rally around.

Exactly and the Disciples seen Jesus and so believed it was him back from the dead, Thomas didn't doubt Jesus he was doubting the other disciples... I hate that whole 'doubting Thomas' rubbish. He was just being sensible.

sorella

Your choice, your loss.

So why insult others? With generalisations that are meaningless.

You have a mind; so you base your lack of belief on your judgement of others?

We can and do question the Church; often. But we never question God or Jesus because we know and love Him.

You are illogical.

Blessings this day

MrPudding wrote: »

I think most people realise this. I would expect what happened, as it was in my case, is the initial questioning comes from losing faith in the church. You begin to question the church, and you find it lacking. Then you begin to question how, if he indeed exists, god would allow such a despicable organisation to represent him here on earth.

So from the initial questioning of the church you move on to bigger questions. This is how it worked for me. I questioned the church, then I questioned god. I found no satisfactory answers. I know the church is not god or Jesus, I simply don't believe in any of it.

MrP

sorella

Just Jesus.. why go by men and women?

Is not the Son of God enough for you?

He is for us and for millions.

He says. " No man comes to the Father but through Me"

We keep our brains and bodies very active; but not by questioning our beliefs. Why should we? We know our Lord.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You should question everything not just a belief in God. It's a healthy way to live and keep your brain active.

I'm an atheist but would have some religious sympathy, in that I think I can understand why it's there and I try not to have too much of a problem with it, even though that can be tough at times.

You're obviously a smart fellow, so one suggestion to you would be to check out other smart people who do believe in a higher power. This may mean accepting that one religion and only one religion is the truth is probably improbable and that religions at best are just cultural representatives to connect to and express divinity.

Some people you might like to check out:
1. Robert Beckford. Liberal Anglican Christian.
2. Pete Owen-Jones. Liberal Anglican Christian.
3. Karen Armstrong. X - Nun but now more generic spirituality.
4. Robert Winston. Jewish Scientist. Does a lot of Science documentaries and believes in a higher power.

Good Luck.

sorella

Really? Not so.

Read what Jesus said to Thomas; because you have seen you have believed. Blessed are they who have not seen but have believed.

You have our compassion and more as days go by, our pity now.

MatthewVII wrote: »

Of course Thomas had the luxury of having Jesus show up and ask him to look at his hands and put his fingers into the wound on his side. Modern people who question their faith have no such beacon to rally around.

sorella

Confusing as you are picking bits out of several mails here.

Then find a Church which has fellowship. OR, rather than whinge, create community yourself.

Takes application and perserverance to do that'; takes work and dedication and commitment. And time to win trust and to give it.
And my mail was not addresed to you anyways!


Your choice also to reject the Son of God.

Ours to embrace Him.

And to give support to all who seek it.

Old saying. You have to be in it to win it.

Try?


Community. Don't make me laugh. I can honestly say that there is more community in my GFs church which I have attended about 4 times 300 miles away in a different country than in one of the 3 parish churches here.


I don't particularly identify wiht/relate to jess


+1

Exactly and the Disciples seen Jesus and so believed it was him back from the dead, Thomas didn't doubt Jesus he was doubting the other disciples... I hate that whole 'doubting Thomas' rubbish. He was just being sensible.[/quote]

sorella

So?

Not sure what you are getting at here?

We worship Jesus in the Church; we do not worship the Church. That would be idolatry.

Sin indeed.

Blessings this night

Pamela111 wrote: »

But it is the Church of Jesus Christ. The fundamental teachings and the Holy sacremants are essential.

matthew/16-18: And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.



Matthew 18:18- "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

As far as I can see the Holy Mass is the greatest praise that you can give Jesus. It is where we offer up our sacrifices to Jesus for our sins and ask for Mercy. At every Mass Jesus is crucified in front of us.

See: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/liturgy/masspower.htm

"When we receive Holy Communion, we experience something extraordinary - a joy, a fragrance, a well being that thrills the whole body and causes it to exalt." "If we really understood the Mass, we would die of joy."
"There is nothing so great as the Eucharist. If God had something more precious, He would have given it to us."
"When we have been to Holy Communion, the balm of love envelops the soul as the flower envelops the bee." - St. John Vianney


It is also worth seeing the Eucharistic Miracles:
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html


I would have agreed with you a short time ago, all I did was pray. Now I know the power of the sacrements of confession and Mass. Fasting, I find, is also powerful especially before Mass and then to participate in Mass and to stay afterwards in thanks.

This is my understanding, please correct me if I said anything wrong or sinful. I ask for your help in finding the right information. Regardless of what we think of a priest or the Church in general we must obey the fundamentals and we must get the sacrements of Confession and Holy Mass as regular as possible.

God Bless,

Compak

Hi, I do not lose faith in the existance of God but often am at fault for losing faith in God purpose for me and that he is there to answer and help me and can reject him. I now hold these verses as a reminder to help me through hard times.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

“Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go."
Joshua 1:9

”This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.” 1 John 5:14-15

"Hardships in plenty beset the virtuous man but Yaheh rescues him from them all"
Psalma

grizzly

Soul Winner wrote: »

Pray to God first and foremost, ask Him for help, be specific tell him verbally what the problems are, involve yourself in service to the ministry and talk to others. Also I would say to meditate on the Psalms, especially David’s Psalms, read Paul’s Epistles and read the Gospel of John.


Here's William Lane Craig on "Dealing with Doubt" which I think is quite helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fDyPU3wlQ

In that video William Lane Craig says that when we experience doubts it is not the absence of God but the presence of Satan.

sorella

For these timely and beautiful reminders; thank you and bless you.

Add words of Jesus also... Come unto me all that travail and are heavy laden and I will refresh you."

And oh so many more...

Compak wrote: »

Hi, I do not lose faith in the existance of God but often am at fault for losing faith in God purpose for me and that he is there to answer and help me and can reject him. I now hold these verses as a reminder to help me through hard times.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

“Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go."
Joshua 1:9

”This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.” 1 John 5:14-15

"Hardships in plenty beset the virtuous man but Yaheh rescues him from them all"
Psalma

normar

Compak wrote: »

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; .....
Proverbs 3:5-6

This is exactly what faith requires of humans. To pay no heed to that which is demonstrable, to ignore all knowledge gained from empirical evidence which can be proven over and over again, but to "trust" in ideas which assult every fibre of our critical faculties.

It was this requirement to "trust" faith, a requirement nesessary in every one of the hundreds of competing religions existing in this world that helped me move towards reason and science.

We can at least say this for science: will continue to test it's assumptions and principles against new evidence as it comes to our knowledge and understanding. Science will discard those ideas found to be false in favour of those giving a better understanding of our whole universe. No religion will do this.

Lastly I would like to say that I have waited for Kieran, the starter of this thread to give us an indication if anything he has read has provided him with support or has been helpful, but alas no indication yet. Perhaps he will soon otherwise I can't help feeling that it is all such a waste of our time.



Normar

Goduznt Xzst

normar wrote: »

Lastly I would like to say that I have waited for Kieran, the starter of this thread to give us an indication if anything he has read has provided him with support or has been helpful, but alas no indication yet. Perhaps he will soon otherwise I can't help feeling that it is all such a waste of our time.

Normar

*ahem*

normar

Ahem indeed.

Kieran could have let us know here. I mean this is where he started the thread.

However it's great that he was able to reach a decision. As an atheist I'm glad that it is to join our growing numbers.

Question everything with an open mind and come to your own conclusions.

Soul Winner

grizzly wrote: »

In that video William Lane Craig says that when we experience doubts it is not the absence of God but the presence of Satan.

Does he say those specific words in that order or are you just paraphrasing? If so can you elaborate on what it is you want to ask please, if anything? If not then can you tell us how long into the clip he says these words in that order so we can zoom right to it ourselves and listen. Then by all mean let us know what your point is.

Soul Winner

normar wrote: »

This is exactly what faith requires of humans. To pay no heed to that which is demonstrable, to ignore all knowledge gained from empirical evidence which can be proven over and over again, but to "trust" in ideas which assult every fibre of our critical faculties.

It was this requirement to "trust" faith, a requirement nesessary in every one of the hundreds of competing religions existing in this world that helped me move towards reason and science.

We can at least say this for science: will continue to test it's assumptions and principles against new evidence as it comes to our knowledge and understanding. Science will discard those ideas found to be false in favour of those giving a better understanding of our whole universe. No religion will do this.

Lastly I would like to say that I have waited for Kieran, the starter of this thread to give us an indication if anything he has read has provided him with support or has been helpful, but alas no indication yet. Perhaps he will soon otherwise I can't help feeling that it is all such a waste of our time.



Normar

The proverb simple states not to trust in our own understanding. You even said it yourself that science doesn't do this. Science tests everything all the time and then re-tests it and re-tests it. It never rests on its own understanding, it is always reaching to understand better and better all the time. So what specifically is the problem you have with what the proverb-ist is saying?

nozzferrahhtoo

Kieran,

I think there is a very telling thing in your opening post. You said:

I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me.

You should look at this statement closely and address why you said it. The important thing is maybe that you are realising a belief in god has no merit. You may have been holding it until now because it had value.

Remember an important rule:

Things are not true because them being true is more valuable…
Or more fun….
Or more interesting….
Or just plain nicer….

Thing either ARE or ARE NOT true.

Maybe your crisis of faith stems from this. Up until now you saw value in thinking one way and so accepted it must be true. Now without such value you realise that there never was any reason to think it was so.

Of course this is just the best answer I can give you based on your opening post. You did not tell us why you believed it in the first place, therefore we do not know what it is exactly you are having a crisis WITH.

The ONLY indication of why you believed you inferred in your first post is that believing it had some “value”. I can therefore only assume that its value was the only reason you believed it.

Remember the above rule and I think you will find you are not in a crisis but on the right path. IF there is anything I can do to help or any further advice I can offer as a non believer just PM me and I will be more than happy to help or refer you to someone who can where my own abilities to do so are wanting.

WxfrdJay

KieranKennedy wrote: »

Hello all, I am a practicing Catholic and up until quite recently I would have considered myself a very strong believer. I don't know why this has happened now, but for some reason I have found myself questioning my faith in God. I have had a lot of questions in my mind which I have had a great deal of difficulty in trying to answer. I find myself, for the first time, questioning whether what value my faith really has to me. I am the only person in my social circle who attends mass and believes in God, and my parents are lapsed Catholics. If anyone has had a crisis of faith, can you tell me how it was resolved and how exactly did its resolution come about. Thanks very much.

Kieran,

Congratulations, and well done in achieving this first difficult step in freeing your mind. I too endured a difficult period just as you did, for years I believed in a god, and not dying when you die and prayer. Read some more on your new found interest, you will find the true answers to your questions are far more interesting and fascinating than anything your parish preist or bible ever had to offer. I would suggest Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Dawkins, among a few more.

And what I would say is don't give up, for the reward is worth the effort. Once you discover the truth you will no longer have to worry, you will realise that ultimately the only judge of you is yourself. You will live this life to the fullest for you'll realise this is the only one you have. After you die you will only exist in the memories of the living you have left behind, and this will become a beautiful concept. Don't give up.

chozometroid

WxfrdJay wrote: »

Kieran,

Congratulations, and well done in achieving this first difficult step in freeing your mind. I too endured a difficult period just as you did, for years I believed in a god, and not dying when you die and prayer. Read some more on your new found interest, you will find the true answers to your questions are far more interesting and fascinating than anything your parish preist or bible ever had to offer. I would suggest Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Dawkins, among a few more.

And what I would say is don't give up, for the reward is worth the effort. Once you discover the truth you will no longer have to worry, you will realise that ultimately the only judge of you is yourself. You will live this life to the fullest for you'll realise this is the only one you have. After you die you will only exist in the memories of the living you have left behind, and this will become a beautiful concept. Don't give up.

Science will not provide answers to the origin of life, how we are to love one another, and to what happens after death. It will, however, offer a lot of arrogant confusion.

Keiran, do not let the behavior and actions of those around you dictate how you feel toward your God. You need to have a more personal walk with Christ. Put your trust in Him, and allow Him to work in your life. The more you surrender yourself to your Creator, the closer He will dwell with you. You will find that He has been guiding you through your life without you even knowing it. We are tried by fire, so that we are refined, and pure. The best will come out of you when you pull out of these tough times. God has not forgotten you. Stay strong in the faith, and ask Him to help you learn how to follow Him. Pray for greater faith.

You will be in my prayers.

nozzferrahhtoo

Although I have to concede chozometroid may be right and he may be wrong…. I advise all and sundry to be wary of anyone who claims to know what Science will discover in the future. This is information that we and chozometroid have no access to.

What we MAY known in the future is clearly not known to us as we are talking about what we will or will not know IN THE FUTURE, not now. Anyone who claims to know something about what we WILL know is by definition lying to you outright.

My advice is to act on what we know NOW, and to be interested in the areas where we are STILL LEARNING.

Pay little to no attention to those who claim to have knowledge of what we may or may not know in the future. They are talking about something they can know nothing about.

Fanny Cradock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Although I have to concede chozometroid may be right and he may be wrong…. I advise all and sundry to be wary of anyone who claims to know what Science will discover in the future. This is information that we and chozometroid have no access to.

What we MAY known in the future is clearly not known to us as we are talking about what we will or will not know IN THE FUTURE, not now. Anyone who claims to know something about what we WILL know is by definition lying to you outright.

My advice is to act on what we know NOW, and to be interested in the areas where we are STILL LEARNING.

Pay little to no attention to those who claim to have knowledge of what we may or may not know in the future. They are talking about something they can know nothing about.

Stop soap boxing.

Burgo

chozometroid wrote: »

Science will not provide answers to the origin of life, how we are to love one another, and to what happens after death. It will, however, offer a lot of arrogant confusion.

arrogant in what way?

nozzferrahhtoo

I was not aware I had, but if I have I am happy to back track so maybe you can clarify to me what you mean?

However a discussion of same is a little off topic of the thread. Maybe you can do me, yourself, the OP AND this thread the justice of discussing this in private with me rather than hijacking the thread?

If I have broken any rules delete my post and PM me the reason. If I have offended but not broken any rules please PM me and admonish me as to how and why I can do better.

Sorry to all affected by this little tangent. I will do my best to ensure my next post is still on topc.