General Bias towards UCD/Trinity in Educational Reporting in daily newspapers.

dodgyme

This is something I have noticed in the last 20 years in the main Irish newspapers. It may be simply part of the general Dublin centric attitude of the Indo and the Times but it seems to be particularly accentuated in articles concerning education. Basically a lot of articles seem only to refer to UCD or Trinity all the time. They seem to forget the other Uni's exist (incl DCU, which would mean the argument is not simply about being Dublin centric) or heaven forbid mention the DIT's or the institutes of Technology or UL.

A good example of this is in the times today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117503.html

"The NUI is the federal body for four universities, including University College Dublin, and some other colleges."

Some other colleges? - its a body of four universities but I will mention one only?

Not sure if anyone else noticed this kinda thing, but it does make you wonder the narrow mind of the people who work for these publications

The_Minister

UCD and TCD are the two oldest and most respected institutions in Ireland.

They are also the most internationally prominant.

dr.bollocko

The_Minister wrote: »

UCD and TCD are the two oldest and most respected institutions in Ireland.

They are also the most internationally prominant.

No disrespecting Mr. Minister but I think IT Tralee will have something to say about that.

The_Minister

dr.bollocko wrote: »

No disrespecting Mr. Minister but I think IT Tralee will have something to say about that.

IT Tralee thinks a disco ball in an old barn makes a nightclub.

chickenhawk

Someone still bitter they didn't get into UCD or Trinity op?

mental07

The_Minister wrote: »

UCD and TCD are the two oldest and most respected institutions in Ireland.

They are also the most internationally prominant.

Doesn't mean the others don't exist.

Caoimhín

And rightly so. Trinity is only for Protestants and Westbrits, i am reliably informed that graduates have to swear an oath to the English queen before graduating.

Also, I am the king of Norway.

Quazzie

dr.bollocko wrote: »

No disrespecting Mr. Minister but I think IT Tralee will have something to say about that.

If it was called Trallee IT (TIT) then it might

Aldebaran

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

If it was called Trallee IT (TIT) then it might

Thanks for putting that in brackets for those of us who didn't go to Trinity or UCD and wouldn't be able to work it out for ourselves.

Quazzie

Aldebaran wrote: »

Thanks for putting that in brackets for those of us who didn't go to Trinity or UCD and wouldn't be able to work it out for ourselves.

Hey I gotta cater for everyone

dodgyme

The_Minister wrote: »

UCD and TCD are the two oldest and most respected institutions in Ireland.

They are also the most internationally prominant.

I think Maynooth would have something to say about that considering it is older then UCG/UCD/UCC/Queens - 1845 founded.

dodgyme

chickenhawk wrote: »

Someone still bitter they didn't get into UCD or Trinity op?

err no! There was a thing called the points system when I went to college. Generally if you could get into one uni you had the points for the others also

chickenhawk

dodgyme wrote: »

err no! There was a thing called the points system when I went to college. Generally if you could get into one uni you had the points for the others also

I'll take that as a yes.

Wagon

The_Minister wrote: »

UCD and TCD are the two oldest and most respected institutions in Ireland.

They are also the most internationally prominant.

So? Everyone who goes there is still a wanker.

A Primal Nut

Agree, and besides UCD and Trinity are only the most respected for pointless subjects like Arts, Philosophy, Psychology, etc:) Well, UCD is also very well respected for one useful thing Business to be fair.

For real courses, like Engineering, ITs are more respected - nobody in my course had a problem getting a job in spite of the economic downturn everyone keeps talking about.

Having said, UCD probably would have been more fun to be a student.

dodgyme

Can anyone here actually stick to the question about how things are reported in the papers and bias involved rather than the stupid "you didnt get the points" "My college is the best for what I did" b*llsh*T?

ah forget it!!!!!!!!!! why did I bother sticking this in AH?

mental07

dodgyme wrote: »

Can anyone here actually stick to the question about how things are reported in the papers and bias involved rather than the stupid "you didnt get the points" "My college is the best for what I did" b*llsh*T?

ah forget it!!!!!!!!!! why did I bother sticking this in AH?

Ask one of the mods to move it elsewhere.

The_Minister

dodgyme wrote: »

Can anyone here actually stick to the question about how things are reported in the papers and bias involved rather than the stupid "you didnt get the points" "My college is the best for what I did" b*llsh*T?

ah forget it!!!!!!!!!! why did I bother sticking this in AH?

We have a section for News and Media, instead you chose to put it in AH.

Your fault.

phasers

(That's where the medical schools are)

Nodin

dodgyme wrote: »

ah forget it!!!!!!!!!! why did I bother sticking this in AH?

None of them UCD or Trinity people would have made that mistake.

dodgyme

Nodin wrote: »

None of them UCD or Trinity people would have made that mistake.

they dont read boards so it doesnt matter.

dodgyme

phasers wrote: »

(That's where the medical schools are)

Whats so important about medical schools? UCG has a medical school, dont understand your point?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

dodgyme wrote: »

Can anyone here actually stick to the question about how things are reported in the papers and bias involved rather than the stupid "you didnt get the points" "My college is the best for what I did" b*llsh*T?

ah forget it!!!!!!!!!! why did I bother sticking this in AH?

Look it's because UCD and TCD are the best.

Happy now?

andrew

dodgyme wrote: »

they dont read boards so it doesnt matter.

Actually we do, but only to laugh derisively at the uneducated and borderline illiterate masses.

emeraldstar

dodgyme wrote: »

This is something I have noticed in the last 20 years in the main Irish newspapers. It may be simply part of the general Dublin centric attitude of the Indo and the Times but it seems to be particularly accentuated in articles concerning education. Basically a lot of articles seem only to refer to UCD or Trinity all the time. They seem to forget the other Uni's exist (incl DCU, which would mean the argument is not simply about being Dublin centric) or heaven forbid mention the DIT's or the institutes of Technology or UL.

Yet the single quote used from anyone actually connected with any of the NUIs is from someone in Cork...

Relax man.

Irish Times wrote:

Fees should not be introduced for any undergraduates, said other candidate Prof James Heffron, of the University College Cork biochemistry department last night.

Mr Heffron said the role of the chancellor should involve promoting the NUI to help source philanthropic funding for the universities.

Retraining was not the function of the universities, he said, adding there were State bodies which were funded for this but which did not have a good track record.

Mark200

TCD and UCD are the two most well known universities in the country, they're the two highest ranked universities in the country, and generally the best research comes out of TCD and UCD

dodgyme

Mark200 wrote: »

TCD and UCD are the two most well known universities in the country, they're the two highest ranked universities in the country, and generally the best research comes out of TCD and UCD

i know that ranking bit but I am not talking about that. As for the research I am sure the other uni's would say their research is as good depending on budgets etc. What I am on about is the narrow minded journo's writing general articles on education only referencing UCD or trinity or adding them to the end of sentences for no reason apart from mentioning them?

Mark200

dodgyme wrote: »

i know that ranking bit but I am not talking about that. As for the research I am sure the other uni's would say their research is as good depending on budgets etc. What I am on about is the narrow minded journo's writing general articles on education only referencing UCD or trinity or adding them to the end of sentences for no reason apart from mentioning them?

Other universities can say what they want, it doesn't make it true.

And it's like if someone was writing an article about the economy, would you rather reference the chief economist of America or of Luxembourg?

dodgyme

Mark200 wrote: »

Other universities can say what they want, it doesn't make it true.

And it's like if someone was writing an article about the economy, would you rather reference the chief economist of America or of Luxembourg?

no its not like that its just plain ignorance and narrow mindedness to talk about the uni sector in a way the seems to exclude other uni's just because of centralised access to the the national media by journalist who probably went to Trinity or UCD.

Its the same narrow minded attitude that induces these two colleges to have a boat race and pretend rather badly to be a paddy version of the oxbridge boat race.

themont85

dodgyme wrote: »

i know that ranking bit but I am not talking about that. As for the research I am sure the other uni's would say their research is as good depending on budgets etc. What I am on about is the narrow minded journo's writing general articles on education only referencing UCD or trinity or adding them to the end of sentences for no reason apart from mentioning them?

UCD is the biggest 3rd level college in Ireland, one of the oldest, has a good rank plus reputation and is one of the most recognisable worldwide. Ditto for Trinners cept smaller but older and more prestigous(in some people's eyes). Its a huge chip on your shoulder thing which is unnecessary. For instance if you were to describe the EU to a person from the US for example in a US newspaper like in such a situation with NUI as you quoted, it wouldn't be unusual for them to say 'The EU, including Britan, France and Germany'. They are bigger and more recognisable to outsiders. It doesn't mean they're better just that they have size and history which make them stand out to a person not entirely informed.

THe ITs and other Uni's are hardly ignored, there is always articles about them in newspapers ect.

What annoyed me when I was in College was the chip on their shoulder stuff which some mates in school had about Trinity/UCD just because they went to DIT for example. They were always pointing out how much better DIT actually was then the aforementioned two, it got really annoying after a while. Nobody minds a bit of craic but some took it OTT. I'd say the same about a small number of people in Trinity where I went who went there for 'prestige value' and looked down to an extent on other institutions.

reggiethefirst

phasers wrote: »

(That's where the medical schools are)

Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland > Trinity and UCD

dodgyme

themont85 wrote: »

UCD is the biggest 3rd level college in Ireland, one of the oldest, has a good rank plus reputation and is one of the most recognisable worldwide..

UCD is mid ranking in age with Trinners and Maynooth being the 2 oldest so that argument is out the window

themont85 wrote: »

. They are bigger and more recognisable to outsiders. It doesn't mean they're better just that they have size and history which make them stand out to a person not entirely informed...

not really - trinity is well known because of its history but not UCD, so the argument must fall

themont85 wrote: »

.
What annoyed me when I was in College was the chip on their shoulder stuff which some mates in school had about Trinity/UCD just because they went to DIT for example....

inversed snobbery or chip (one or the other)- yes I have seen this also and have to agree with you on that one.

Collie D

Would hardly call it unfair bias.

UCD is the biggest university in the country and Trinity is one of the oldest, the most famous and is ranked in the top 100 in the world.

The chip on the shoulder thing exists in these places as well. I went to UCD and you can read all the Trinity hating reports in the college rags. I always wondered how many of my fellow UCD heads had Trinity as first choice - I know I did

dodgyme

Trinity is the oldest and UCD is the biggest but you can come up with whatever criteria you like to fit your argument so they say. Anyhow one area that all colleges had a go at years ago was the quiz show challenging times - these were the results over the years. UCD with its size and Trinners with its history hardly excelled

1991[6] St Patrick's College, Maynooth - Runner up -> University of Limerick
1992 [7] St Patrick's College, Maynooth - Runner up -> Trinity College, Dublin
1993[8] University College, Cork - Runner up -> Bolton Street College of Technology
1994[9] University College, Cork - Runner up -> Cork Regional Technical College
1995 University College, Galway - Runner up -> [10] University of Limerick[11]
1996 [10] University College, Galway - Runner up -> Cork Regional Technical College
1997[12] Dublin City University - Runner up -> University of Limerick
1998 [13] University College, - Runner up -> Dublin Dublin Institute of Technology
1999[14] National University of Ireland, Maynooth - Runner up -> Dublin Institute of Technology
2000 [15] National College of Ireland[16] - Runner up -> National University of Ireland, Galway
2001[17] University College, Cork - Runner up -> National University of Ireland, Galway

themont85

dodgyme wrote: »

UCD is mid ranking in age with Trinners and Maynooth being the 2 oldest so that argument is out the window


not really - trinity is well known because of its history but not UCD, so the argument must fall



inversed snobbery or chip (one or the other)- yes I have seen this also and have to agree with you on that one.

UCD not in size though. UCD is one of the oldest regardless.

Honestly which is better known, UCD or NUI Maynooth?

In terms of NUIs, UCD is best known because; its in Dublin so internationally and domestically would be better known, its size, largest number of courses, rank, long history as the Catholic University to rival Trinity...

Trinity, history blah blah blah

For instance, adding another analagy which you didn't respond to(the EU one), if the papers if describing the grouping of ITs in this country would probably say 'including DIT' because its the most recognisable. I don't agree that its 'snobbery' on behalf of journalists. Type in varios Institutions into the Irish Times and you get recent results about all, including about research, courses ect there. A lot of the journalists go to places like DIT for God's sake, my mates a journalist and he studied it at DIT!

themont85

dodgyme wrote: »

Trinity is the oldest and UCD is the biggest but you can come up with whatever criteria you like to fit your argument so they say. Anyhow one area that all colleges had a go at years ago was the quiz show challenging times - these were the results over the years. UCD with its size and Trinners with its history hardly excelled

1991[6] St Patrick's College, Maynooth - Runner up -> University of Limerick
1992 [7] St Patrick's College, Maynooth - Runner up -> Trinity College, Dublin
1993[8] University College, Cork - Runner up -> Bolton Street College of Technology
1994[9] University College, Cork - Runner up -> Cork Regional Technical College
1995 University College, Galway - Runner up -> [10] University of Limerick[11]
1996 [10] University College, Galway - Runner up -> Cork Regional Technical College
1997[12] Dublin City University - Runner up -> University of Limerick
1998 [13] University College, - Runner up -> Dublin Dublin Institute of Technology
1999[14] National University of Ireland, Maynooth - Runner up -> Dublin Institute of Technology
2000 [15] National College of Ireland[16] - Runner up -> National University of Ireland, Galway
2001[17] University College, Cork - Runner up -> National University of Ireland, Galway

Sorry you definately have a chip on your shoulder. Nobody said that Trinners, UCD were smarter, more knowladgable in quizzes just that they ARE more recognisable domestically and internationally.

Also you said that by quoting size we're 'you can come up with whatever criteria you like to fit your argument so they say', are you not doing the same by putting up a list of winners of a quiz show?(which is pretty much irrelevant to your original beef)

This is why;
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland
/2008/1009/1223445617983.html
www.cao.ie-check out how many courses they have
Size
Check out wikipedia for all their respected history
They're in Dublin