ESB Pay rise and no levy???

gerry28

The ESB they award themselves a 3.5 percent pay rise and apparently they are not subject to the pension levy despite to earning an average of €76,000 p.a.

This country is badly divided

Caoimhín

Indeed, average pay of €76,000 and id say that's before overtime. Fair play to the lads who earn that but it is a fine example of the ridiculous state we have gotten ourselves into in this country.
No wonder one of the biggest barriers to foreign investment is high energy prices.

juuge

gerry28 wrote: »

The ESB they award themselves a 3.5 percent pay rise and apparently they are not subject to the pension levy despite to earning an average of €76,000 p.a.

This country is badly divided

I heard the ESB unions representative being interview on morning Ireland and jaysus to think that sort of dunce could hold the country to ransom. He said his workers go out in all sorts of weather to make sure we have electricity, duh! what else do they do? I wouldn't be surprised if the army are already preping to run the power stations.

Cactus Col

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

Although, the ESB didn't jsut decide to award themselves a 3.5% increase. This was part of the social partnership process, and any profitable entity who had signed up to the agreement should be paying the increase, as many others have. It was approved back in November.

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

The_Minister

We need to seperate Eirgrid from the ESB asap, and smash their hold on the country.

Mark200

The_Minister wrote: »

We need to seperate Eirgrid from the ESB asap, and smash their hold on the country.

What's the difference between them? I've only heard of Eirgrid once, from someone who worked for them, and they just said it was a new name for the ESB or something

biko

ESB workers on average earn more than €76,000.
Key power station workers earn an average of €92,000 while staff at Poolbeg power plant take home an average of €142,000 a year.

ESB workers are already among the best-paid in the country, earning more than twice the average industrial wage.

**

holly1

Joelle Weak Ledge wrote: »

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

What are the Jnr Doctors and Nurses doing,saving lives yet they have been hit.Do you not think their jobs are important enough.

Cactus Col

holly1 wrote: »

What are the Jnr Doctors and Nurses doing,saving lives yet they have been hit.Do you not think their jobs are important enough.

I don't think anyone was saying that the jobs of Doctors and Nurses aren't important enough. I'm sure you feel so strongly about how important nurses' are you'll be out supporting them if and when they go on strike against the pension levy.

The ESB is a commercial entity, it can afford to give it's employees a wage increase that was due to them in the partnership plan.

Them not getting an increase is not going to make anyone else's jobs any better, it's not gonna make your esb bill any smaller.

There might be a short supply of money going around, but it's nice to see we've got an over abundance of begrudgery.

ejmaztec

Cactus Col wrote: »

I don't think anyone was saying that the jobs of Doctors and Nurses aren't important enough. I'm sure you feel so strongly about how important nurses' are you'll be out supporting them if and when they go on strike against the pension levy.

The ESB is a commercial entity, it can afford to give it's employees a wage increase that was due to them in the partnership plan.

Them not getting an increase is not going to make anyone else's jobs any better, it's not gonna make your esb bill any smaller.

There might be a short supply of money going around, but it's nice to see we've got an over abundance of begrudgery.

So, what happens when a large number of the population cannot pay their electricity bills? With high unemployment, short time working, levies, and God knows what else, many people are going to be even more crippled by the exorbitant cost of electricity.

I expect the ESB will be expecting the government to guarantee the bills.

Dyr

thats the joy of having semi state bodies, joe taxpayer gets to bear the brunt of all the drawbacks of both the private and public sector without any of the benefits of either. Those hoors have arseraped us from both ends for decades.

Gone Drinking

A pay rise? In this day and age?

My god, this is bound to spark an outcry!




Yea, shoot me!

Mr. Incognito

Shocking.

holly1

Joelle Weak Ledge wrote: »

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

Im not for or against anyone,all I ment was the post makes it sound as if the ESB,s work is more important to anyone else.:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

I'm gonna Socket to the bastards!

Relevant

Joelle Weak Ledge wrote: »

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

And the Firemen, Gardai, Ambulancemen, doctors, nurses only work 9-5 when it is sunny?

I'd rather the doctors were being paid to keep my heart beating than some overpaid engineer being paid to keep my TV running

Cactus Col

ejmaztec wrote: »

So, what happens when a large number of the population cannot pay their electricity bills? With high unemployment, short time working, levies, and God knows what else, many people are going to be even more crippled by the exorbitant cost of electricity.

I expect the ESB will be expecting the government to guarantee the bills.

Will they be? You've actually no idea what will happen.

The fact is that the ESB has made money, they are part of the partnership process, and due to the agreements they made there they have paid the 3.5% increase that was due.

The country is in a financial mess, that probably not your doing, certainly wasn't my doing, but we're paying the price. The people who should have our ire are the politicians, the banks, and whomever else has gotten us into the state we're in. What's actually happening is that people are attacking and showing their frustrations towards whomever the media (and lesser extent politicians) decide is the whipping boy of the day.

Last week it was the public service, now it's the ESB, lord knows who's gonna be next week.

ejmaztec

Cactus Col wrote: »

Will they be? You've actually no idea what will happen.

The fact is that the ESB has made money, they are part of the partnership process, and due to the agreements they made there they have paid the 3.5% increase that was due.

The country is in a financial mess, that probably not your doing, certainly wasn't my doing, but we're paying the price. The people who should have our ire are the politicians, the banks, and whomever else has gotten us into the state we're in. What's actually happening is that people are attacking and showing their frustrations towards whomever the media (and lesser extent politicians) decide is the whipping boy of the day.

Last week it was the public service, now it's the ESB, lord knows who's gonna be next week.

It isn't just in the recent downturn that ESB workers have come in for a lot of stick - it's been pretty much continuous over the years, the last 20 at least. It also seems that the only ones not criticising the leeches are the ESB employees themselves.

holly1

holly1 wrote: »

What are the Jnr Doctors and Nurses doing,saving lives yet they have been hit.Do you not think their jobs are important enough.

This discussion is about ESB workers however I agree with you, My mother is a nurse and my sister is a student nurse so I know all about whats going on.

The ESB workers should have to pay the levy but they should get the pay increase as should the doctors and nurses as that was the agreement regardless of the state of the economy.

Relevant

Relevant wrote: »

And the Firemen, Gardai, Ambulancemen, doctors, nurses only work 9-5 when it is sunny?

I'd rather the doctors were being paid to keep my heart beating than some overpaid engineer being paid to keep my TV running

Aggreed, as you can see from my last post I would feel very strongly about the pay situation of people in the health service. But electricity is also vital the tv was probably a bad example but it would not be ideal for a hospital to run on emergency power generators for a long period of time so I think the ESB workers role in this country is important also.

chosen1

The ESB are making millions in profit each year so why shouldnt they give their workers a pay rise as promised in the agreement?

Those who are criticizing them need to do their homework and see that it is not the ESB who are inflating the price of electricity. When they had a monopoly in the market years ago, electricity in Ireland was in fact one of the cheapest in Europe but when the supply was broken up to let in competition the regulator actually increased the cost of electricity to encourage competition into the market. ESB only has 40% or so of the market now so that argument about letting in eirtricity or who ever backfires.

A fine example of only having competition for the sake of it and not turning out in the idealistic free market dream way.

Cookie_Monster

The ESB is so profitable because the charge so much for electricity. We pay the highest electricity prices in europe and despite the 70%+ fall in oil prices ESB have not reduced electricity prices as yet despite taking a 17% rise in prices in August to combat riseing fuel prices. The regulator does nothing about it either, as like most regulatory bodies in this country they are useless and toothless.

But why give the benefit back to the consumer when you can hold on to it:rolleyes:

€142k average in Poolbeg is just stupid money

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Chosen1 has it spot on. We had the cheapest electricity in Europe until we opened the market to other suppliers who said they couldn't do it for the existing ESB prices. The vast majority of industrial and commercial customers aren't even supplied by ESB.

ESB is a Private sector company in which the Minister for Energy, Minister for Finance, and the employees are the shareholders. Under the terms of the wage agreement the pay increase must be paid if the company is profitable - which it is. At least 50 other companies have paid the increase but I don't see any complaints about that, even though they all provide goods or sevices which we pay for.
There also little mention that over the past 10 years (and still happening) the ESB has halved it's workforce at a time when it's work load had doubled. These redundancies didn't make any headline news while 50 jobs lost elsewhere was all over the media.

moceri

I've Just had my latest ESB bill and had to Groan that once again the tariff has increased since my last bill in November .I thought electricity prices were due to fall!!! The ESB is a Virtual monopoly in the residential sector and I believe the regulator should force a Price freeze at last Novembers Rate.

I Contacted The Energy Regulator and Eamonn Ryans Office to communicate my displeasure.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

moceri wrote: »

I believe the regulator should force a Price freeze at last Novembers Rate..

No a great move to keep prices at November rates when they (CER/ESB/Minister) are about to reduce prices.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gerry28 wrote: »

The ESB they award themselves a 3.5 percent pay rise and apparently they are not subject to the pension levy...

Just wondering why people who contribute 9.5% of their income to a pension fund should pay a levy to subsidise Public Sector pensions paid for from government funds. The ESB Pension is self financed and does not draw from the public finances. People need to get better informed before the begruddery starts. Do you think I should pay more in to my private company pension fund just becasue civil servents had to? Are you proposing a levy on your own pension contributions - assuming you do have a pension of some sort?

thebman

Again posting this from another thread on this in the hope someone reads it. Feel free to read it or ignore it and continue giving out about pay increases.


The ESB actually wanted to reduce prices though as it makes it easier for them to kill airtricity and the like.

The regulator kept prices artificially high to encourage "competition". This was all a load of bollocks really though as these companies were never going to take sizable junks of ESB market share quicker because of this inflated price.

I imagine the real reason is because the state gets a share of the profits. So if you want to blame someone, blame the regulator and the Minister for fookups, Eamon Ryan who is also in charge of broadband.

Is a coincidence we have one of the highest line rental costs in the world for some of the worst speeds as well as some of the most expensive electricity in Europe?

Its most likely the common link between the two fooking everything up IMO.

edit--- not done biatching

Comreg are also a joke regulator. They both just do what the minister tells them too IMO which is fook all. Comreg gets its funding from telco's. The more profits they make, the more funding Comreg get and the more money the government get.

Its all a joke. How can the ESB go to their workers and say we are making record profits unlike every other company so we aren't going to give you a pay increase? They shouldn't be making record profits, that's the regulators fault.

KerranJast

Lads why so negative? It's not the fault of the ESB workers that they're insulated from the shocking conditions of other private sector workers on the ground. We have to be positive about this situation and not polarise the population.

phantom_lord

stong unions ftl

Lil Giraffe

I am sick hearing the same old storey for the last couple of weeks about ESB Workers getting the 3.5% increase and its totally out of order. ESB are going ahead with the pay increase because they are making a profit. When the storey came up in the papers about the average ESB Worker earning 76,000PA people just assume that they all earn that amount when quiet frankly its a load of bull. There are a lot of people who are in the ESB who earn a lot less than that and who have been earning a lot less than that for years especially when the celtic tiger was going on and the same job somewhere else would have given them a lot more money. But they stuck it out.

I have to say i totally disagree with the levy on the Pensions when in fact its only a pay cut.
The government are hitting all the wrong people in order to save their 2Billion.
Maybe Brian Cowen should start from the top down and when i said top i didnt even mean the high earners but the government. How about the cutting the top of the range mercedes they all have or the huge salaries they get (And they always seem to be on holidays).

And my last point If Anglo Irish Bank Employee's got their Bonus and Pay Rise this year why cant the ESB.

Joelle Weak Ledge wrote: »

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

ejmaztec

KerranJast wrote: »

Lads why so negative? It's not the fault of the ESB workers that they're insulated from the shocking conditions of other private sector workers on the ground. We have to be positive about this situation and not polarise the population.

Give em the chair. He who lives by the sword etc...

loyatemu

Asa Obedient Door wrote: »

Chosen1 has it spot on. We had the cheapest electricity in Europe until we opened the market to other suppliers who said they couldn't do it for the existing ESB prices.

source for this? I find it hard to believe we had cheaper leccy than the likes of France with their huge nuclear generating capacity...

It is true - under the terms of the national pay agreement the ESB had to pay the increase as they are a profitable company.

Of course, the reason they are a profitable company is because they have no competition and set their own prices - they simply can't make a loss.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

loyatemu wrote: »

source for this? I find it hard to believe we had cheaper leccy than the likes of France with their huge nuclear generating capacity...

It is true - under the terms of the national pay agreement the ESB had to pay the increase as they are a profitable company.

Of course, the reason they are a profitable company is because they have no competition and set their own prices - they simply can't make a loss.

You are obviously too young to remember back! It is undisputed that through the 80s we not only had the cheapest electricity in Ireland but Paddy Moriarty, then CE of ESB, gave a 5 year price freeze promise.
Through the 90s the price began to rise as the then Electricity Regulator got to grips with trying to encourage new participants in to the Irish market leading to the CER today and prices in excess of what ESB would actually like. Rememebr last year when the Chairman of ESB wanted to reduce prices but was prevented by the regulator?
Where do you get the no competition nonsense. Yes they have a single distribution network (imagine if every independent generator and supplier had their own wires crossing the country!) but generation is only 60% ESB and the Industrial and Commercial market is nearly all non-ESB supply companies. The domestic market is largely ESB but that's because the other suppliers don't want it as it is not economical for them.
It's great that they are profitable. Imagine the state of the infrastructure if ESB didn't make a profit? What complaints would there be if they made a loss and required state subsidy? We had enough of that with CIE and Bord na Mona for decades.They could make a loss if they don't achieve targets and efficiencies set by the CER but they do achieve them and good on them for doing so.
Care to comment on a 40-50% staff reduction in ESB in 10 years with a 125% increase in connections and network provision? More power to them!

RoundyMooney

You know your electricity market, Srameen.

Just to summarise a few points for the armchair brigade here who it seems cba educating themselves, or have given up trying.

-ESB is not a monopoly. ESB Networks (a seperate company who charges all suppliers equally, be they Airtricity, Bord Gais or whoever) is the Distribution System Operator, the yellow vans in the street in essence.

-ESB has reduced workforce since CCR in 1995, as Srameen has been quite patiently pointing out here over the last while, by over 50%, while more than doubling its activities. A necessary and quite proper state of affairs.

-Energy prices are set by the regulator, so blame him. ESB group has been campaigning of late for a reduction, as prices have been held artificially high, both to facilitate the open market (and attendant costs), and to entice other players into the market. I'm sure ESBCS would love a reduction in order to make life more difficult for its competitors, as would any business.

-ESB utility workers are among the lowest paid in Europe. Some (very few in reality) workers are on crazy money, but show me any large company where this is not so. When the tiger was roaring, the electrical trades were making double or treble what their counterparts in ESB were making. Let us not resort to begrudgery now, in tougher times.

-In real times, wage costs on an electricity bill amount to less than 10% of the total. It's left up to the reader whether a 3.5% increase in salaries has an influence on energy cost in keeping with the wailing and gnashing of teeth this has caused.

-The government and the social partners (including those Green idiots) had every opportunity in November to raise objections to this increase. None of them did so.

-ESB could not hold off on this 3.5% increase (and why should the board, when nobody asked it?) without being held in breach of the partnership agreement. Over 50 other profitable companies have already paid out, without any dissent whatsoever.

I trust this clarifies a few points. It should be noted too that I'm not speaking on behalf of ESB here.

token56

The_Minister wrote: »

We need to seperate Eirgrid from the ESB asap, and smash their hold on the country.

Well to be fair they are completely seperate bodies already. Granted there is alot of inherent ties between them due to the nature of the work being done, alot of cooperation needs to take place.

What is needed is for the ownership of the transmission grid to be passed onto Eirgrid. This is the only logical choice really. However this is unlikely to happen since this is a major asset to the ESB and worth a considerable amount of money so its employees dont want it to simply be handed over. They will ask for alot of money is this is to happen.

DeirdreD

Joelle Weak Ledge wrote: »

In all fairness the ESB lads are out in all weather at any time of the year and all night at times keeping us warm and or TV's running so I wouldnt be so quick to question their wages.

I dont think the topic is in relation to the physcial work some members of ESB do ( and I state some- I know some who work in the customer care centre and they say it is a cushy number altogether) , i think it is whether the pay increase was justified at this time ( me thinks not)and whether they should also be applicable to the pension levy ( me thinks they should!!)

Donald-Duck

DeirdreD wrote: »

I dont think the topic is in relation to the physcial work some members of ESB do ( and I state some- I know some who work in the customer care centre and they say it is a cushy number altogether) , i think it is whether the pay increase was justified at this time ( me thinks not)and whether they should also be applicable to the pension levy ( me thinks they should!!)

Tell me why they should be applicable to the pension levy

RoundyMooney

Where is the customer care centre? I've never heard of it.

I'm not being facetious, although I could be...

Your posts smack of misinformed hand wringing sensationalist knee jerking, because you saw your latest bill and got a land.

Why should ESB staff, as those of a private company (that happens to have the government as a majority shareholder-and two subco's which are charged with managing the transmission and distribution network respectively*) who have always contributed to their own pensions, and have seen the fund lose value over this decade, as with many others, have to pay into a levy of public sector workers (which is in itself a whole other debate).

'Cos you got your bill and didn't like it, and have lapped up the meeja line that "them ESB fellahs are makin' a fortune, shur"?

As an aside, anecdotally we are seeing an exponential rise in complaints from the public about the "yellah vans" popping home for lunch, or perhaps parking on double yellows in the course of their duty. Sadly it seems this person is not the only one to buy into an anti ESB mindset.

Bear in mind that at the time of the last increase, ESB bunged €300m into the pot, to lessen the pain for customers!

*As opposed to Eircom, a private company in private hands with full on total control over the telecom network in this country. Perhaps you would prefer if ESB were the same and weren't putting a brass cent into network upgrades? ESB have and will invest over €9 billion in its network, culminating in 2010. On top of that €22 billion will be invested to make the company carbon neutral by 2035. ESB have consistently met efficiency targets and made a return to the exchequer year on year, and we're the bad guys???

Capt'n Midnight

chosen1 wrote:

Those who are criticizing them need to do their homework and see that it is not the ESB who are inflating the price of electricity. When they had a monopoly in the market years ago, electricity in Ireland was in fact one of the cheapest in Europe but when the supply was broken up to let in competition the regulator actually increased the cost of electricity to encourage competition into the market. ESB only has 40% or so of the market now so that argument about letting in eirtricity or who ever backfires.

A fine example of only having competition for the sake of it and not turning out in the idealistic free market dream way.

+1

we used to have the third cheapest electricity in EU , considering our market is only the size of Birmingham and most of the fuel was imported it says a lot. ( BTW also shows the hole in the nuclear argument if we had cheaper electricity than UK or France )

Look how many foreign electricity providers have setup here since deregulation even with the much higher cost. It's like the M50 toll bridge ,does the same as before it's just more expensive

RoundyMooney

It's a double edged sword. The price was fixed for a few years, and successive ministers were afraid to tackle it.

At the time ESB as was was losing money, thanks mainly to an artificially low price, but also horrendous efficiencies in work practises and the like (looking back on it now, I remember some that worked like navvies, and some that wouldn't get out of bed for you. I also remember seven or eight different people being involved in a standard new connection, and five to a line truck, now it's two at a push for the connection, and most hoist/line vehicle drivers are solo). As a result, the network was left in a very sorry state by the start of the last decade (hence the need for such massive investment).

Now as you say the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and they're queuing up to get in. None of the providers want to deal with joe public though (he's too much hassle for them), they all want the big accounts.

DublinWriter

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Bear in mind that at the time of the last increase, ESB bunged €300m into the pot, to lessen the pain for customers!

Only after they tabled their usual annual increase and then realising, horror on horror, that they were actually awash with money in the first place.

And the average wage in ESB is €75K now?!? Oh please.

Electricity costs here are 20% higher than the rest of Europe on average.

ESB are part of the problem, not the solution. Open your eyes, look at all the multinationals literally fleeing the country due to high energy costs and drop the silo mentality.

RoundyMooney

Yes, you may write, going by your username (sensationally it would seem), but did you actually read any of my early posts?

ESB do not set the energy price-in fact they want to bring it down!

I firmly believe regulation is killing the country rather than saving it.

An increase was requested at a time when oil was triple the price it is now. We are reliant on imported energy which has sfa to do with what staff are paid. As I have already said, thats a tenner in the ton at the outside.

Mrmoe

I bet sparks will fly over this

Donald-Duck

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Yes, you may write, going by your username (sensationally it would seem), but did you actually read any of my early posts?

ESB do not set the energy price-in fact they want to bring it down!

I firmly believe regulation is killing the country rather than saving it.

An increase was requested at a time when oil was triple the price it is now. We are reliant on imported energy which has sfa to do with what staff are paid. As I have already said, thats a tenner in the ton at the outside.

You know the way every workplace/college has that stupid loud person that spouts off crap they heard their best friends dog said, well after hours is that person on boards.

DublinWriter

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Yes, you may write, going by your username (sensationally it would seem), but did you actually read any of my early posts?

Er, no, I usually rely on the media and press releases for my facts and not some random apologist I come across on d'Internet.

Anyways, yes, let's avoid the flame-fest right now. ESB are wonderful, any organisation that can look after it's own in this day and age is to be applauded.

holly1

SO SELFISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TAKE TAKE TAKE.

Donald-Duck

DublinWriter wrote: »

Er, no, I usually rely on the media and press releases for my facts and not some random apologist I come across on d'Internet.

Anyways, yes, let's avoid the flame-fest right now. ESB are wonderful, any organisation that can look after it's own in this day and age is to be applauded.

Which media? I've noticed all media outlets are in fact emphasising the fact that it was part of the social partners scheme

mad m

Can someone explain why the ESB are not subject to the pension levy?

ixoy

mad m wrote: »

Can someone explain why the ESB are not subject to the pension levy?

The pension levy is for members of the public and civil service, i.e. those paid for by the government and its subsidiary bodies. The ESB is not such a body, no more than Eircom is. I don't believe it affects the likes of An Post either for example.

thebman

DublinWriter wrote: »

Only after they tabled their usual annual increase and then realising, horror on horror, that they were actually awash with money in the first place.

And the average wage in ESB is €75K now?!? Oh please.

Electricity costs here are 20% higher than the rest of Europe on average.

ESB are part of the problem, not the solution. Open your eyes, look at all the multinationals literally fleeing the country due to high energy costs and drop the silo mentality.

And who sets the price of electricity?

Its like talking to a wall. Sure they may be overpaid (don't know if they are, thats the average wage) but that misses the point.

The company is still making massive profits despite this because of the overinflated price and the price is set by the regulator.

Reduce the price so they aren't making insane profits then talk about wages FFS!