UNMARKED CAR SPEEDING PROCEDURE

paul_geo

Does anybody know what the procedure is for an unmarked car catching somebody speeding? I've had cars overtake me on two occassions, doing well over the speedlimit, only to see a car two spaces ahead turn on the blue lights. While I initially laughed at the thought of the poor timing - call it Karma, coincidence or just deserts, In neither instance did the garda car pull them in. Can the unmarked cars catch people for speeding and post out the points or do they have to pull them in?

L-M

I'm fairly sure they have to pull you in. But i don't think they can do you for speeding since they haven't got any proof. They can on the other hand do you for dangerous driving, driving without due care etc. etc.

Did you get caught? Lol

Seth Brundle

Some garda cars (marked and unmarked AFAIK) have Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), cameras and other technologies meaning that they don't have to pull you over!

afatbollix

how do they prove whos driving so?

yes they have to pull you over...

L1011

anto-t wrote: »

how do they prove whos driving so?

yes they have to pull you over...

How does a rear-facing GATSO prove whos driving?

By sending an order for the registered keeper to identify who it was, thats how. That this is possibly being made incriminate yourself and hence possibly illegal is a matter for someone with a good lawyer and lots of money...

Stephen

They don't have to prove who's driving. When you get the fine in the post you can declare who was driving. If they won't admit it, the registered owner of the car will get done. That's how it works with gatsos.

edit: snap!

Holsten

They probably have more important matters at hand than some clown speeding.

robbie99

Perhaps the reason the Guards didn't pull in the speeding car was because there was an acknowledging quick flash of blue lights from the speeding car.

paul_geo

I know with the static cameras, you can declare who is driving after you get the letter in the post, so it's not really an issue. I think the issue is whether the new mondeos have the capabilities to identify your speed and register your numberplate and more importantly store it as proof?

tommmy1979

kbannon wrote: »

Some garda cars (marked and unmarked AFAIK) have Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), cameras and other technologies meaning that they don't have to pull you over!

I didn't think ANPR was here yet...

L-M

tommmy1979 wrote: »

I didn't think ANPR was here yet...

It is, but it's not ANPR the same as England as far as i know. Very few cars have it atm though.

kraggy

kbannon wrote: »

Some garda cars (marked and unmarked AFAIK) have Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), cameras and other technologies meaning that they don't have to pull you over!

Are you sure K? Do you mean the handheld cameras that the gardai hold and point out the window of their unmarked cars?

Also, what's the penalty for speeding? And how much faster than the speed limit would you need to be doing to end up in court?

stealthyspeeder

paul_geo wrote: »

Does anybody know what the procedure is for an unmarked car catching somebody speeding? I've had cars overtake me on two occassions, doing well over the speedlimit, only to see a car two spaces ahead turn on the blue lights. While I initially laughed at the thought of the poor timing - call it Karma, coincidence or just deserts, In neither instance did the garda car pull them in. Can the unmarked cars catch people for speeding and post out the points or do they have to pull them in?

Like a marked car, they have to pull you over, the ANPR will identify a car and if it stores a photo, that can at most prove you were in the vicinity of the police car at the time of the speeding allegation. However, to give you points, the unmaked Guardai cars and marked, need your license details.

Also on another note, if you are pulled over, the guard will often use an assumptive and authoritive tone in order to get you to acknowledge that you have been going above the speed limit. (If you have not been speeding) never ever admit to the guard at the roadside that there is even the slightest possibility that you were travelling above the limit, do not surrender you license in acknowledgement that points will be put on it. If you deny the offence, the burden of proof is on the guard to prosecute in court. If they have no evidence, other than a guards visual estimation, very small chance of it going to court and even smaller chance of it winning.

I was pulled over in November by a guard who insisted that I was going over the speed limit, I told him I wasnt and asked him to proove to me that I was speeding, he then proceeded to call me a liar and tell me how he had to go at 25 mph above the speed limit to catch up with me, I simply told him that he must have been a good bit behind me when he started!:D (he's now "keeping his eyes peeled for me"! after he let me away)

NBar

ANPR aslo has a video recording feature on it and alot of Traffic cars both marked and unmarked have it fitted now

stealthyspeeder

NBar wrote: »

ANPR aslo has a video recording feature on it and alot of Traffic cars both marked and unmarked have it fitted now

This is true, but unless the ANPR is calibrated to a callibrated speedometor car and a radar speed detection is also thrown in to the mix to prove the distance between the Guards car and speeders car is constant, I dont see how it could prove a speeding offence?

daRobot

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

This is true, but unless the ANPR is calibrated to a callibrated speedometor car and a radar speed detection is also thrown in to the mix to prove the distance between the Guards car and speeders car is constant, I dont see how it could prove a speeding offence?

In Australia about 5 years ago, I was driving in Queensland on a remote enough road, completely deserted in the afternoon.

Was doing about 30 mph over the speed limit, when a cop flew past me in the opposite direction (It was a one lane road). Thought nothing of it, until I see him 20 seconds later in my rear view with the blues flashing.

He came up to the car with some speed gun of some sort, that showed my speed. Couldn't believe it, he had the gun attached to the outside of the drivers window, and it could get the speed of cars in the opposite direction while he was driving.

This was 5 years ago, so the technology must be here now.

stealthyspeeder

The radar must have been calibrated to the car, which itself must have a claibbrated speedometer, the radar gun has to be outside the car (if it was inside the car, the glass would interfere with the reading) and correct me if im wrong on this but I think weather conditions have to be right to use radar on a mobile vehicle (i.e. no rain as this would also interfere with reading) which is grand for Austrailia, not so practical in Ireland. I also havent seen any radar guns protruding from any guardai cars (other than the handheld staionary ones!)

jedijonvtec

it states in our law that the speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly when challenged in court,

no syncing or devices is required. also anpr is only used in a few vehicles in dublin and its the same technology as england. same company supplies both devices.

cops here have had vascar in some cars for almost 10 years now and this can tell your speed when you are driving in front of or behind cops.

also when pulled by lone cop or cop without proof of speed. you still can be done, unless you have passengers in the car, where it'd be 2 on 1 in court. still he could be a prik and do ya.

speed cameras , guns , gatso's etc . none of these devices have to b proven to work for case to hold up. even if you were caught at 200mph

jedijonvtec

weather also doesnt affect the guns. its a laser. picks up cars through dense fog and any other weather associated conditions.

its only the fact that the cops are irish and have better things to be doing than getting wet trying to catch one person out every hour than the fact that they dont work in rain.

maddogcollins

ANPR in at least one unmarked car in ennis/shannon

kraggy

I'm confused.

What exactly is ANPR? I know it recognises plates but can a hand held gun have ANPR?

Last night I was driving along and was over the speed limit on Quencentenial bridge in Galway (big road, 2 lanes either side).

Got to the bottom and saw a squad car parked on a traffic island of the roundabout so broke hard. As far as I know, they use a handheld speed gun and point it out the window. When I got to the roundabout, the lights were red and so I had to stop right beside the traffic island on which the Garda unmarked car was parked. I had a look and noticed that the Garda was looking at me.

But they didn't stop me. Could the speed gun have a camera attached? Could I get points and a fine?

stealthyspeeder

jedijonvtec wrote: »

it states in our law that the speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly when challenged in court,

no syncing or devices is required. also anpr is only used in a few vehicles in dublin and its the same technology as england. same company supplies both devices.

cops here have had vascar in some cars for almost 10 years now and this can tell your speed when you are driving in front of or behind cops.

Im not saying its incorrect, but it sounds illogical, where in the law does it say that speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly?

The Radar would need to know what speed the moving guardai car was travelllling at in order to ascertain what speed the suspected speeders car is travelling at. The guardai car would need to be calibrated accurately and in working order (which would need proven by the checks the guards reularly perform) in order to provide this information accurately.

In order to perform the correct mathematical calculation (given the speed of the guards car and the time taken for the 120mph wave to reflect of the speeders car) without human error (which would be needed to stand up in court) the devices would need to be synced.

Vascar works but has to be over a set distance for a set time, which unless you are a careless driver who doesnt check his mirrors or the road in front, will never catch you.

jedijonvtec wrote: »

weather also doesnt affect the guns. its a laser. picks up cars through dense fog and any other weather associated conditions.

.

This is incorrect.

Its not Lasar when the car is moving. It can only be Radar as laser needs a stationary point from which the beam is projected.

Laser speed detection is significantly affected by adverse weather contions such as fog
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/further.htm

jedijonvtec

well i was caught with a speed gun at 11 one night doin 85 in dense fog on motorway. thats how i know they still work in bad weather. got fcn off cop and went to try challenge decision.

i was in contact with my solicitor and he told me that the speed gun is presumed correct at all times , unless i can prove otherwise... the guards do not need to produce any evidence that the gun works, that it is calibrated or whether or not it displays in km or miles.

he said in his words that i had a better chance of winning lotto

jedijonvtec

I'm confused.

What exactly is ANPR? I know it recognises plates but can a hand held gun have ANPR?

not at the moment . anpr uses databases from cops , dmv and other sources in england to determine the status of every car that passes.

its more of a sleeper system that allows them to park up with a vehicle monitoring the road , and linking to another car or by using anpr vehicle.
it scans reg and checks against database . wont be used for speeding at the mo.

the cop was prob just gawking at your car out of nosyness

kraggy

So there's no camera attached to those speed guns and there's no camera situated in the car at all? If they didn't stop me I should be ok?

stealthyspeeder

kraggy wrote: »

So there's no camera attached to those speed guns and there's no camera situated in the car at all? If they didn't stop me I should be ok?

Fine and Dandy!

jedijonvtec

no. you should hear nought from them.

the guns on display what speed you were doing and they would need to stop you and issue a fcn for it to count, unless it was camera on tripod, which i doubt

speed cameras catch ya and automatically applies points and fine to registered owner , unless ya can get someone to take fall.

i reckon he never even checked your speed

Whitewater-AGS

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Im not saying its incorrect, but it sounds illogical, where in the law does it say that speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly?

The Radar would need to know what speed the moving guardai car was travelllling at in order to ascertain what speed the suspected speeders car is travelling at. The guardai car would need to be calibrated accurately and in working order (which would need proven by the checks the guards reularly perform) in order to provide this information accurately.

In order to perform the correct mathematical calculation (given the speed of the guards car and the time taken for the 120mph wave to reflect of the speeders car) without human error (which would be needed to stand up in court) the devices would need to be synced.

Vascar works but has to be over a set distance for a set time, which unless you are a careless driver who doesnt check his mirrors or the road in front, will never catch you.


This is incorrect.

Its not Lasar when the car is moving. It can only be Radar as laser needs a stationary point from which the beam is projected.

Laser speed detection is significantly affected by adverse weather contions such as fog
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/further.htm

Anpr works like this when the Garda car is following your car and your speeding the observer in the car presses a button when your car passes a fixed point point eg traffic lights, road sign, esb pole ect, they then press the button again when they pass the same fixed point thus calculating your speed. which will be shown to you on a handheld device once stopped.

Also as stated the gardai do not need to show a handheld laser gun is calibrated as this is always accepted to be the case by the courts, there is case law to support this but i've not got it to hand.

And finally the gardai dont need your licence details at the side of the road when stopped they will just demand your name and address and get you to produce your documents to a Garda station within ten days.

stealthyspeeder

jedijonvtec wrote: »

well i was caught with a speed gun at 11 one night doin 85 in dense fog on motorway. thats how i know they still work in bad weather. got fcn off cop and went to try challenge decision.

i was in contact with my solicitor and he told me that the speed gun is presumed correct at all times , unless i can prove otherwise... the guards do not need to produce any evidence that the gun works, that it is calibrated or whether or not it displays in km or miles.

he said in his words that i had a better chance of winning lotto

Sorry to hear that, you might have not been speeding! it would take a massive courtcase for the law to be changed but it can and prob one day will.

It does seem a bit unfair that if a display shows a number on a screen and you can be prosecuted according to wheter or not this number is higher than allowed, the mechanisms behind the generation of that number do not have to be shown to be correct!

I personally think the ANPR is a great thing as it will allow the guards to target cars involved in crime and cars with no NCT or insurance rather than wasting their time catching minor speeders while some buck drives past with no insurance!

stealthyspeeder

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

Anpr works like this when the Garda car is following your car and your speeding the observer in the car presses a button when your car passes a fixed point point eg traffic lights, road sign, esb pole ect, they then press the button again when they pass the same fixed point thus calculating your speed. which will be shown to you on a handheld device once stopped.

Also as stated the gardai do not need to show a handheld laser gun is calibrated as this is always accepted to be the case by the courts, there is case law to support this but i've not got it to hand.

And finally the gardai dont need your licence details at the side of the road when stopped they will just demand your name and address and get you to produce your documents to a Garda station within ten days.

Firstly ANPR = Automatic NumberPlate Recognition
You are talking about the Vascar method which I refered to earlier in the post which you quoted.

In relation to the infalibility of laser guns, I dont think this will be the case indefinately, however it will take a major court case to get the law changed.

In relation to the guards issuing whats called a producer, this is true but if they take license details at the side of the road, the automatic process of assumed guilt by the driver in question has been started and is much more difficult to stop the prosecution process and issuing of penalty points than it is to make a formal written objection at the station when producing your license.

Whitewater-AGS

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly ANPR = Automatic NumberPlate Recognition
You are talking about the Vascar method which I refered to earlier in the post which you quoted.

In relation to the infalibility of laser guns, I dont think this will be the case indefinately, however it will take a major court case to get the law changed.

In relation to the guards issuing whats called a producer, this is true but if they take license details at the side of the road, the automatic process of assumed guilt by the driver in question has been started and is much more difficult to stop the prosecution process and issuing of penalty points than it is to make a formal written objection at the station when producing your license.

The laser gun issue wont change any time soon as i stated already there is case law relating to this already and it wont be changed otherwise the garda would have to bring the speed gun to court everytime to show its working correctly and that would mean less equipment on the roads.

now when issueing a fcps giving the garda your licence details on the road side does not mean your assuming guilt, as i already stated all thats needed is your name and address to issue a ticket. You do not assume guilt until you pay the ticket!

towel401

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I personally think the ANPR is a great thing as it will allow the guards to target cars involved in crime and cars with no NCT or insurance rather than wasting their time catching minor speeders while some buck drives past with no insurance!

no its just one more step toward a police state like England. do you really care if someone goes around with no NCT? that thing is a joke anyway - give your car to a few polish cowboys so they can have a go at trying to break it.

kraggy

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

AGS do not have to stop you but generally we do out. Think about it. How do you get a parking fine. Number plate is all thats needed and then the fine is sent out to the registered owner. Under Section 107 of Road Traffic Act 1961-06 the registered owner must then declare the driver at the time. As i said though cars are normally stopped and details taken to be sure to be sure and to let people know that they have been detected and wont need to think where they were at that time two weeks later.

Secondly ANPR is calibrated and is certified. Travelling behind the offending vehicle shows correct speed. Also there is case law for un calibrated garda vehicles travelling behind cars to prosecute for speed. All that needs to be done is after the detecting the PSV inspector must ''clock'' the vehicle using the speed gun to show how far out the speedo is. Hope it helps:)

Does your first paragraph apply to speed guns when an unmarked car is parked at the side of the road? If they don't stop you or follow you and ask you to stop, can you still get points and fined?

Seth Brundle

jedijonvtec wrote: »

well i was caught with a speed gun at 11 one night doin 85 in dense fog on motorway. thats how i know they still work in bad weather. got fcn off cop and went to try challenge decision.

In fairness, doing 85 (hopefully you are talking km/h) in dense fog is pretty stupid and be grateful that a garda pulled you over!

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Im not saying its incorrect, but it sounds illogical, where in the law does it say that speed gun doesnt need to be proven to work or proven to be calibrated correctly?

IIRC the Road Traffic Act 2004. It doesn't state that it doesn't have to be calibrated. It says that there will be a presumption that it is calibrated thereby removing the possibility of a claim against its accuracy

D_murph

kbannon wrote: »

IIRC the Road Traffic Act 2004. It doesn't state that it doesn't have to be calibrated. It says that there will be a presumption that it is calibrated thereby removing the possibility of a claim against its accuracy

I dont like the sound of that. For all we know, the Guard could have damaged the gun by accidentally dropping it or something and then gets an erroneous speed reading on your car and, BAM!! You're done and cant prove you're innocent because the law says that they need not bother to ensure their equipment is working ok to convict you :rolleyes:.

Better chance of getting away with a murder in this country than a speeding ticket and at least you can try and defend yourself if charged with that.

TheNog

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

do not surrender you license in acknowledgement that points will be put on it.

This is bad advice and definitely would not recommend it to anyone because there is 2 offences you could be done for.

If a Garda asks you for your licence and you say "No", it is automatically an offence not allow a Garda to read your licence. You would be summonsed to court along with your speeding and whatever other offences. You would get hammered in court for it.

Secondly if you say you dont have it with you, you are again committing an offence as you must carry your licence with you at all times while driving. I have never seen anyone prosecuted for it as people are given the 10 days to produce instead but the piece of legislation is still there.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

In relation to the guards issuing whats called a producer, this is true but if they take license details at the side of the road, the automatic process of assumed guilt by the driver in question has been started and is much more difficult to stop the prosecution process and issuing of penalty points than it is to make a formal written objection at the station when producing your license.

Again you assume the guilt when you pay the fine. If you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish.

stealthyspeeder

TheNog wrote: »

This is bad advice and definitely would not recommend it to anyone because there is 2 offences you could be done for.

If a Garda asks you for your licence and you say "No", it is automatically an offence not allow a Garda to read your licence. You would be summonsed to court along with your speeding and whatever other offences. You would get hammered in court for it.

Secondly if you say you dont have it with you, you are again committing an offence as you must carry your licence with you at all times while driving. I have never seen anyone prosecuted for it as people are given the 10 days to produce instead but the piece of legislation is still there.



Again you assume the guilt when you pay the fine. If you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish.

I would not drive with my license on me for two reasons, Firstly if I kept it in the car and the car got stolen, I would lose it and if I kept it on my person, there is a high chance that it could fall out of my pocket or I could lose my wallet or have my wallet stolen. A drivers license is gold to a fraudster and I would not want it to fall into their hands. For this reason I would keep it in a safe at home. The law (along with most reasonable guards) recognise this and will issue you with a producer if they really want to see your license.

This is a valid point on its own but the second reason I would not carry it, is that if I do not have it, the guard will have to issue the producer if he wants to take it further, this is hassle for them and will only do it if they believe the outcome to be beneficial. It also gives me more time to gather my thoughts and make a formal written complaint at the station if charges were to be brought forward.

In reference to the point, "you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish" I swould say this would be inconvienent, stressfull and a lot of hassle, I would prefer that the incident did not go any further than a chat and a letter to the Guard in charge at the station.

If you have not been speeding, but you have been accused of speeding by a guard, if you give your license details, you will get a ticket and you will be summoned to court if you refuse to pay. If you deny speeding and do not have your license to hand (if the guard wants to he may) ask you to produce your license at a station. When you arrive, speak to Guard in charge, give him a letter (take a copy and ask him to sign that he recieved it) which outlines the incident in your terms, and requests a summary of the evidence against you, also inform him that you will contest any prosecution against you. If you do this it is much more likely that the incident will not be taken further and you will not have the stress, hassle and worry of a court apperance.

TheNog

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

This is a valid point on its own but the second reason I would not carry it, is that if I do not have it, the guard will have to issue the producer if he wants to take it further, this is hassle for them and will only do it if they believe the outcome to be beneficial. It also gives me more time to gather my thoughts and make a formal written complaint at the station if charges were to be brought forward.

ok so you do all this if you were stopped for speeding?

Have you done this before and it worked out for you?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

In reference to the point, "you have a valid complaint then bring it to court if you wish" I swould say this would be inconvienent, stressfull and a lot of hassle, I would prefer that the incident did not go any further than a chat and a letter to the Guard in charge at the station.

What would the letter say?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If you have not been speeding, but you have been accused of speeding by a guard, if you give your license details, you will get a ticket and you will be summoned to court if you refuse to pay. If you deny speeding and do not have your license to hand (if the guard wants to he may) ask you to produce your license at a station. When you arrive, speak to Guard in charge, give him a letter (take a copy and ask him to sign that he recieved it) which outlines the incident in your terms, and requests a summary of the evidence against you, also inform him that you will contest any prosecution against you. If you do this it is much more likely that the incident will not be taken further and you will not have the stress, hassle and worry of a court apperance.

I dont get this part. Why would you be stopped for speeding only if they didnt or couldnt show you the speed on the speed gun?

Orla K

stealthyspeeder

I'm less inclined to trust or even believe anything you say given your username.

TheNog

Orla K wrote: »

stealthyspeeder

I'm less inclined to trust or even believe anything you say given your username.

hahahaha funny

Orla K

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

And that my dear will keep you out of court if you do ever get caught speeding. Thank god some have sense!!!;)

What'll keep me out of court is my uncle who was a detective garda or garda detective (can't remember which is right) and he knows most of the top gardai. I'm also only learning so I have him as my accomping driver.

donvito99

From Garda .ie


Automatic Number Plate Recognition [/FONT]
An Garda Síochána is in the process of fitting Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) systems to Garda Traffic Corps vehicles. This system is used in patrol cars by many police forces worldwide. Systems can scan number plates at around one per second on cars travelling up to 160 kilometres per hour
ANPR systems also include a speed detection capability. This allows for the measuring of the speed of a vehicle travelling in front of a patrol vehicle. The video camera records on-the-scene evidence of speeding, and offences such as dangerous driving, crossing continuous white lines and breaking red light.

One of the main benefits of the system is that the plate recognition can run in the background while Gardaí are measuring speed or attending to other issues as demands dictate.

All vehicles fitted with ANPR camera systems will be able to identify vehicles as being stolen, untaxed, suspect, cited as connected with terrorist suspects, crime groups, drug trafficking, people trafficking and/or persistent offending.

The systems therefore make a significant contribution to the fight against serious and organised criminal activity.

stealthyspeeder

TheNog wrote: »

ok so you do all this if you were stopped for speeding?

Have you done this before and it worked out for you?



What would the letter say?



I dont get this part. Why would you be stopped for speeding only if they didnt or couldnt show you the speed on the speed gun?

Firstly, I am aware my username is doing me no favors here!:o

I wouldnt encourage people to do what I do, but from my own experience (which I'll get to in a sec) I have found it has it benefits. I am always polite and courteuous towards any guard who is doing his job in a proffesional way (there have been occasions where I have found the service of the guards to be unreasonable or unsatisfactory, but I this is a good thread that should not descend in guard bashing.)and I have found that guards will only go out of their way to piss you off (eg summons you to court for failing to have your license on you at that momment) if you go out of your way to piss them off with poor manners and lack of respect. The fact that there guards do have the power to issue a producer really seems to indicate to me the laws understanding of peoples need to keep their license in a safe place.

If I was stopped for speeding when I was sure I was not speeding I would inform the guard that I was not speeding, I would inform him that I didnt have my license on me, I would explain to him why I was sure that I not speeding, and I would ask him to explain why he thought I was speeding and ask him if he could prove that I was speeding.

I have been stopped by the guards (i refered to it in an earlier post on this thread), when the guard realised that I was not going to accept his version of the incident, was adament that I was innocent, did not have my license on me and he could not prove in any way that I was speeding, he did not even issue a producer.

My letter would contain all the facts that I could remember about the incident, my speed, time, road numberplates etc, guards approach, conversation that we had, what proof the guard informed me he had. Outline my understanding that if the guard thought I was speeding, he had to act, but seek understanding that sometimes guards can make mistakes as well, and my dissatisfaction that a mistake has occured at my inconvience, Inform the guards that I intend to contest any prosecution against me and a request for a signature (in case it went to court, this could be used as evidence that a second reasonable attempt has been made by myself to vindicate myself)

As for why I would be stopped for speeding if it couldnt be shown a gun? I assume that accelation under high rev's up to (but not exceeding) the speed limit could give the illusion of speed to an overzealous guard? I cannot know for sure as I only guard how stopped me can know for sure why he stopped me for speeding when I wasnt.

stealthyspeeder

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

And that my dear will keep you out of court if you do ever get caught speeding. Thank god some have sense!!!;)

not trusting someone because of their name will keep you out of court? nice one ballyb!

peasant

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I assume that accelation under high rev's up to (but not exceeding) the speed limit could give the illusion of speed to an overzealous guard? I cannot know for sure as I only guard how stopped me can know for sure why he stopped me for speeding when I wasnt.

In other words ...you were tearing away from somehwere, got stopped by a guard for speeding and didn't take their word for it because you didn't exceed the speed limit.

Fair enough ...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

CLADA

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

My letter would contain all the facts that I could remember about the incident, my speed, time, road numberplates etc, guards approach, conversation that we had, what proof the guard informed me he had. Outline my understanding that if the guard thought I was speeding, he had to act, but seek understanding that sometimes guards can make mistakes as well, and my dissatisfaction that a mistake has occured at my inconvience, Inform the guards that I intend to contest any prosecution against me and a request for a signature (in case it went to court, this could be used as evidence that a second reasonable attempt has been made by myself to vindicate myself)

Could you elaborate a bit on what the purpose of the letter is and who it's addressed to?

The request for a signature as well, what's that about?

stealthyspeeder

peasant wrote: »

In other words ...you were tearing away from somehwere, got stopped by a guard for speeding and didn't take their word for it because you didn't exceed the speed limit.

Fair enough ...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

Thats pretty much why I was stopped, and I was not going over the speed limit. I would not advise people to not carry their licenses when driving, but I will say I do not carry mine, and I have explained the reason.

Ballyb - which of my comments about the topic of speeding do you find ridiculous? I have not said I speed, I have not encouraged others to speed, I have merely outlined my response to an incorrect allegation of speeding. Do you find taking every effort to ensure the states resourses are not wasted on pursuing an incorrect allegation ridiculous?

My letter would be addressed to the superindentant of the station to which the guard who made the allegation was based. The first purpose of the letter would be to highlight in a formal way that you believe a mistake has been made and your reasons for this belief. Second to request that the charges are dropped, thirdly to inform him that if they are not dropped, they will be contested. And finally the signature on the letter will certify that it has been read (if the superindendant decided not to drop the case (which would not have started yet as I would only just have produced my license!)) This will show a judge in court that not only did you contest the descion with the officer at the roadside, but that you have highlighted to the guards you objection formally and rationally, if the guards were not to respond to this letter before the court date, this would be looked on unfavourably by a judge. With this in your favour and and no presentable evidence from the guard other than his contested word I percieve the likelyhood of conviction to be less than taking no action.

peasant

peasant wrote: »

...but now stop "advising" people not to carry their licence with them.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I would not advise people to not carry their licenses when driving, but I will say I do not carry mine, and I have explained the reason.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I wouldnt encourage people to do what I do, but from my own experience (which I'll get to in a sec) I have found it has it benefits.

You can get as smart arsed with the cops as you like, but not with me, buddy.

People are required to carry their driving licence at all times no matter how "beneficial" you think it is to do otherwise.
Your whole strategy that you outline so eloquently is based on breaking the law in the first place (even if you aren't speeding)

Now shuddup ...final warning

Seth Brundle

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly, I am aware my username is doing me no favors here!:o

I think its your posts rather than your username!

dingding

Ballyb Rescue wrote: »

By the letter of the law yes. Again all we need is the reg number. But i've never never heard of anyone doing it. Its better to stop the person and outline the offence, location etc. They can then tell you why they were speeding. (We do have hearts you know. excuses are listened to but might not always work!!!):D

What would be a good excuse

What was the best one you heard

CLADA

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

My letter would be addressed to the superindentant of the station to which the guard who made the allegation was based. The first purpose of the letter would be to highlight in a formal way that you believe a mistake has been made and your reasons for this belief. Second to request that the charges are dropped, thirdly to inform him that if they are not dropped, they will be contested. And finally the signature on the letter will certify that it has been read (if the superindendant decided not to drop the case (which would not have started yet as I would only just have produced my license!)) This will show a judge in court that not only did you contest the descion with the officer at the roadside, but that you have highlighted to the guards you objection formally and rationally, if the guards were not to respond to this letter before the court date, this would be looked on unfavourably by a judge. With this in your favour and and no presentable evidence from the guard other than his contested word I percieve the likelyhood of conviction to be less than taking no action.

That's interesting, but it's not the first time I've come across this. I wish you the best of luck if and when you do take this course of action. You will actually be doing the prosecuting Garda a favour, he will give his evidence, you will outline your well prepared defence, the judge will read this famous letter, look down at you in that way only judges can and tear you a new one....

There's a half price sale in Clerys at the moment buy a comfortable pair of hush puppies, I predict a lot of walking in your future.