All that hard work, gone ..

Neiler21

For the last year and a half my business partner and I have been working on our business idea, we are both 22 and we live in , where we lived we noticed we had pretty much everything from cafes to shopping centres to clothes shops, bars and restaurants etc, but no real leisure facility's so we thought a bowling alley would be great, not long ago our local paper printed an article on how our town needs a bowling alley so this got us excited as we knew we have a market and it would be a success, we have done courses, completed a very good business plan with projections and all market research added, only thing is we are both 22 and have little money, we have been saving but we only have €10,000 to date so we needed help regarding investment to get this thing moving, we set up meetings with our local enterprise board and although they think its a great idea,they cant give grants to this type of business ( but a local drug dealer can get €9,000 from them for his start up business that never went ahead of course,big surprise), its got to be a manufacturing type business for them to give any kind of grant aid, so this left us with the banks, I spoke to a good friend who works in a local bank and told him how we need €120,000 to get this open and he told me there is no way any bank would give us that amount, not in today's climate, no chance, so we thought last chance saloon is a private investor, we have put our idea on an investment site, based for Ireland and the uk, we had 5 interested parties, but heard no reply from either of them after contact back, its been very frustrating for us as we know we have a business that could be very successful, yet we cant seem to get the help, we have had every door shut in our face, to make things worse there is rumour going around that a local business man with big pockets is thinking of opening one and has applied for planning already and although it doesnt surprise me as it was only a matter of time, we cant help but feel down as we are the small guys and after all our hard work it could end up taking some guy with money in the bank to decide one afternoon " you know what, i`ll open that" and he can,so after all our hard work and dedication, that's it gone as we cant think of what else to do ... ive had my heart broken twice and that hurt but this feeling is something ive never felt before, everything always seems to be NO, ever get that feeling .. 2 people who know me couldnt wait to ring me to tell me about this other guy thinking of putting one in , guess some people love to see people fail , I feel so deflated and down to be honest, life eh!

YellowSheep

Hi Neiler
I know the feeling, but now I am 45 and it's still happen and it will continue till we die. Don't be to upset life will go on. Keep your head high and get on with it. I had so many ideas in my life, which I thought are fantastic and nobody listened. And than out of the blue, "boom" some door opens and you are on the next level. Just like a game....and thats what life is. Its a tough one, but hey if it would be easy everybody would open a bowling alley. Head up young man and good luck with your life. Oliver

Chonker

Seriously! How did you think a good idea hard work and passion were ever going to be enough for a 22 yr old with 10k savings to start or even interest an investor in helping to kick start a buisness you have no exp in.

By the time I was 25 I had failed 3 times in business on my own when I started my 4th I was so experienced that cash was the easy part. Keep at it but dont expect handouts use your 10k to do something so at the very least you will prove you really do have what it takes to make it and if you loose all your cash pick your self up and start again pretty soon any investor will see that strenght.

Good luck

FusionNet

I had similar experiences. Im now 30, failed once when I was 21 and lost everything! Ive started again and though its so hard there are days where it is worth it.

I also had a great plan for another business, just when I decided to go for mine two others opened up!! I was gutted, but in a way now Im glad, even if I had gotten the money I would have made mistakes and now with the climate the way it is I'd be screwed. Im still working on that idea but its scaled down now. I originally needed 80,000 to make it work, now Ive gotten it down to 8,000!

The plan you had at the age you are probably with out property and security was going to be a big gamble. Maybe look at investing your 10G into something smaller and build up a little more cash and practive being self employed. If that works then in time it may all work out. Keep your spirits up though your not alone.

Neiler21

Three great replies to be fair, yellowsheep and fusion, you both sound like good guys and you have had your share of let downs and kept going, thats the key really isnt it, thank you very much for your replies and the best of luck with both of your projects now and in the future.

charlie1966

A change of tact. Approach the business man with deep pockets and put some proposal to him that would be mutually beneficial. Just an idea.

here.from.day.1

Aye, if you cant beat em join em. Although I can imagine how frustrated you are so sorry to hear about that.

sm.org

Fair play to you at least you have some drive. I'd say about one percent of posters here have succeeded with their first business. Ten grand in the bank is not something to be laughed at and the banks will look favourably at your savings record when then finally start lending money again.

As for the chumps who ring and gloat at your failures , when they're still in the same dead end jobs in ten years time it wont be nearly as funny.

Look into the proposed bowling alley there might be something in it for you. Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.

Neiler21

sm.org wrote: »

Fair play to you at least you have some drive. I'd say about one percent of posters here have succeeded with their first business. Ten grand in the bank is not something to be laughed at and the banks will look favourably at your savings record when then finally start lending money again.

As for the chumps who ring and gloat at your failures , when they're still in the same dead end jobs in ten years time it wont be nearly as funny.

Look into the proposed bowling alley there might be something in it for you. Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.

exactly your right, im trying to look at this in a positive way, after all the market research and groundwork we actually done on this project will hopefully put me in good stead for future ventures,

thank you very much for your post, you have a great attitude and i wish you the best in what you do.

Bandara

Forget about it and move on. This sort of stuff will happen to you loads.

I'd bet money that you'll look back on it in years time and thank your stars you didn't get into it. Its funny how stuff tends to work out.

I was 4 years looking for a business before I finally saw something that was risk free and perfect for my skillset and long term ideas.

You'll see a lot of sh!t and get excited about a lot of stuff in that time, every steak looks beautiful to a starving man.

Relax, your hunger and drive will make sure you get there, maybe not as quick as you want to, but you'll get there. If your committed enough and work hard enough its impossible for someone like you not to succeed.

alis grave nil

fmcc

Agree with all of the above Neiler the biggest mistake in my career which actually resulted in me being demoted a month after being promoted was probably in reflection my finest hour as it changed my focus completly. there may be an oppertunity in it or you may see that your glad it didn,t work out.

gnxx

I've written probably 50 - 60 business plans :-) Normally when I'm on holiday. Most are deleted when I need disk space.

I'd guess that you've gained a good deal of experience from this exercise. In 2 - 3 years time, you will might have the €100,000 but will be looking for €1,000,000 :-)

Lecture over, now for practical advice:

1. Revisit the plan; try to see how much can be reduced in the plan .. for example, if you have laptop computers in the plan, reduce this to desktops.

2. Contact ALL suppliers; for example, insurance maybe reduced by 30 - 50%.

3. Contact CORE suppliers and look for deals; can you buy the equipment on a 36 month - 48 month payment agreement? Remember suppliers are suffering in the downturn and need customers. Recently I needed computer hardware. I got it for FREE on the basis that I would pay for the next order.

4. You should get a 12 month rent free period. The landlord could potentially be looking at an empty premises for the next 5 years.

5. Look for advertising revenue for the bowling alley. Talk to very big players like Coke etc -- sometimes they will give you cash to get rid of you :-)

6. See can you do deals with local businesses etc. Can you sell memberships before you open? Can you cut a deal with local youth organisations?

Business is no fun when you have the money :-) It makes you lazy.

It is much more fun creating a business from absolutely nothing ...

As always, PM me for specifics.

shoutman

Some great advice in this thread. Great to see the forum kicking off with some quality regular posters.

MrPillowTalk

Neiler21 wrote: »

For the last year and a half my business partner and I have been working on our business idea, we are both 22 and we live in , where we lived we noticed we had pretty much everything from cafes to shopping centres to clothes shops, bars and restaurants etc, but no real leisure facility's so we thought a bowling alley would be great, not long ago our local paper printed an article on how our town needs a bowling alley so this got us excited as we knew we have a market and it would be a success, we have done courses, completed a very good business plan with projections and all market research added, only thing is we are both 22 and have little money, we have been saving but we only have €10,000 to date so we needed help regarding investment to get this thing moving, we set up meetings with our local enterprise board and although they think its a great idea,they cant give grants to this type of business ( but a local drug dealer can get €9,000 from them for his start up business that never went ahead of course,big surprise), its got to be a manufacturing type business for them to give any kind of grant aid, so this left us with the banks, I spoke to a good friend who works in a local bank and told him how we need €120,000 to get this open and he told me there is no way any bank would give us that amount, not in today's climate, no chance, so we thought last chance saloon is a private investor, we have put our idea on an investment site, based for Ireland and the uk, we had 5 interested parties, but heard no reply from either of them after contact back, its been very frustrating for us as we know we have a business that could be very successful, yet we cant seem to get the help, we have had every door shut in our face, to make things worse there is rumour going around that a local business man with big pockets is thinking of opening one and has applied for planning already and although it doesnt surprise me as it was only a matter of time, we cant help but feel down as we are the small guys and after all our hard work it could end up taking some guy with money in the bank to decide one afternoon " you know what, i`ll open that" and he can,so after all our hard work and dedication, that's it gone as we cant think of what else to do ... ive had my heart broken twice and that hurt but this feeling is something ive never felt before, im not ashamed to say for the first time in a long time i cried last night, everything always seems to be NO, ever get that feeling .. 2 people who know me couldnt wait to ring me to tell me about this other guy thinking of putting one in , guess some people love to see people fail , I feel so deflated and down to be honest, life eh!

Grow up would be my advice. You had an idea that looked promising but probably wont be realised, if you continue in business this will happen time and time again.

Tbh you dont sound at all suited to business if a setback where you dont even lose any cash has you in tears.

Also 120k sound ridiculously underbudgeted for a bowling alley, I imagine the fit out and start up of even a comparitively small premises would be closer to twice that figure at least

Yes people in this country love to see others fail, but dont worry they are usually the people who can only ever see the negatives and are likely to be a paye slave for their entire lives, why on earth would you pay them any heed? we spend far too much time in this country caring what other people who dont matter think.

Chonker

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Grow up would be my advice. You had an idea that looked promising but probably wont be realised, if you continue in business this will happen time and time again.

Tbh you dont sound at all suited to business if a setback where you dont even lose any cash has you in tears.

Also 120k sound ridiculously underbudgeted for a bowling alley, I imagine the fit out and start up of even a comparitively small premises would be closer to twice that figure at least

Yes people in this country love to see others fail, but dont worry they are usually the people who can only ever see the negatives and are likely to be a paye slave for their entire lives, why on earth would you pay them any heed? we spend far too much time in this country caring what other people who dont matter think.

Harsh as the above may seem! Take the criticism on board. Learn from your mistakes. Revisit your initial business plan to me also it sounds slightly flawed even for a very average sized unit, fit out staff etc your in the wrong ball park.

However I like the dream, forget about money. Dreams and passion along with a great business plan are and will always be enough to encourage Mr Deep Pockets to join you.

Why not post the guts of your plan, let these guys offer some tips?

patftrears

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Also 120k sound ridiculously underbudgeted for a bowling alley, I imagine the fit out and start up of even a comparitively small premises would be closer to twice that figure at least

++

Chonker wrote: »

Revisit your initial business plan to me also it sounds slightly flawed even for a very average sized unit, fit out staff etc your in the wrong ball park.

Why not post the guts of your plan, let these guys offer some tips?

If put so much work into this, you should be able to answer these questions.

Forget about the start-up cost for the moment. Here are 2 basic questions you should be able to answer.

What was you break even amount per week ?
Staff
Insurance
Electricity
Heating
Loan repayments
Etc...

How many customers would you need each week and how much would they have to spend to hit the above figure ?
How big is catchment area.
What is your target market, young, old etc..
Why would people go to your place, weekly outing, special occasion etc.
Why would they go to your bowling alley.

PS
"not long ago our local paper printed an article on how our town needs a bowling alley so this got us excited as we knew we have a market and it would be a success"
No town needs a bowling alley.
Newspaper articles are full of crap.
Market need is vital but only a small factor in what makes a successful business.

johndaman66

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Also 120k sound ridiculously underbudgeted for a bowling alley, I imagine the fit out and start up of even a comparitively small premises would be closer to twice that figure at least

Was sort of thinking the same myself. Understand from your initial post that you have done market research and projections but have calculated your costs correctly. Before you open any door I would think you are going to incur major costs...a lot higher than you are estimating perhaps. Not least the cost of kitting out a bowling alley which I don't think would be low but also insurance which would probably be quite high for a bowling alley. Hey I may be wrong and stand to be corrected though.

Also just a bowling alley on its on with no frills may not be a very attractive place to bowl. Not sure if your business plan includes it but a shop that sells sweets/ soft drinks/ pop corn etc may be necessary to attract in the punters...Think people expect that sort of thing now and furthermore may prove to be where the actual gravy is! If you have included this in your plan fair enough but if not think you should consider the extra costs in terms of staffing/ fixtures. The reason I say this is that just from my own perspective I'm not a particularly fussy person but all the same would expect such frills as given with a bowling alley.

Also while you may not initially at least have any direct competitors in your town you may have indirect competitors in the form of cinemas/ gyms/ amusement arcades and even pubs or internet cafes to a certain extent perhaps. Point is all of these sectors would be hungry for a piece of your captive market to a greater or lesser extent. I say this without knowing what town/ area you are from so it may only hold certain relevance. You may also need to consider hiring security staff down the line if the bowling alley started attracting the wrong type of clientelle which you may well find may be the case/ would you or your partner be able to deal with these types?

Don't get me wrong... I thoroughly admire your energy and enthusaism and don't think your drive will go un-noticed/ unrewarded in the long-term but just trying to point out the potential pit-falls to you and the above is probably not a complete list. It may be the case that the 10k you have put together will look like small change compared to the 120k plus you would end up owing the bank. Suppose you would really and truly have to be in a position to be able afford loose the 120k which brings us back to the viscious circle you mention. And as a previous poster suggested there will without doubt be an element of no pain no gain associated with a start up business so you should be prepared to leave your emotions at the door maybe...Not saying that to be smart but just to make you aware that you probably will encounter tough and testing times ahead (at least initially) if you proceed with your venture.

Neiler21

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Grow up would be my advice. You had an idea that looked promising but probably wont be realised, if you continue in business this will happen time and time again.

Tbh you dont sound at all suited to business if a setback where you dont even lose any cash has you in tears.

Also 120k sound ridiculously underbudgeted for a bowling alley, I imagine the fit out and start up of even a comparitively small premises would be closer to twice that figure at least

Yes people in this country love to see others fail, but dont worry they are usually the people who can only ever see the negatives and are likely to be a paye slave for their entire lives, why on earth would you pay them any heed? we spend far too much time in this country caring what other people who dont matter think.

I apologise to you for showing some form of emotion in a project my friend and I have worked bloody hard for the last 18 months, i`ll bite my lip with you and move on, its best.

The rest, some brilliant advice on here and I have noted all of it. As alot have said on here, you win some, you lose some.

Also the costs are correct, double checked, with quotes from each company from the suppliers of the bowling alley to the construction, insurance, even down to cleaning equipment, €120,000 is the start up cost, obviously we cut some corners as someone mentioned above with regards to not having expensive computers and needless utilities, the basics.

Just move on now, i feel ive wasted 18 months of my life to a project that wont get started, i dont want to waste any more, onto the next idea and maybe even the next one after that, who knows but one day.

madmik

Neiler21 wrote: »

I apologise to you for showing some form of emotion in a project my friend and I have worked bloody hard for the last 18 months, i`ll bite my lip with you and move on, its best.

The rest, some brilliant advice on here and I have noted all of it. As alot have said on here, you win some, you lose some.

Also the costs are correct, double checked, with quotes from each company from the suppliers of the bowling alley to the construction, insurance, even down to cleaning equipment, €120,000 is the start up cost, obviously we cut some corners as someone mentioned above with regards to not having expensive computers and needless utilities, the basics.

Just move on now, i feel ive wasted 18 months of my life to a project that wont get started, i dont want to waste any more, onto the next idea and maybe even the next one after that, who knows but one day.

Even if 120,000 was enough to build a modern bowling alley which i doubt it would but even if
how many grand a week are you prepared to lose until you get to the stage where youre generating enough business to make a profit?-or even break even??

Youre not going to open a bowling alley and instantly be making heaps of profit

it takes a while to build up a business especially a non-essential thing like a bowling alley in a recession period

if you had of opened it years ago you could have raped the tiger but now parents arent throwing notes at their kids to get them to fcuk off for a few hours and these would be a substantial customer base for a b/alley

FusionNet

Hi again,

I know some of the posts here seem a little tough or harsh but they are coming from the right place. I guess this is the worst thing about forums or texts you can never get the feel or emotion behind a statement so dont take it too to heart.

It is important to note though that even if you needed 80k to build a small alley, you'd need the 40k to get you over the first 12-18 months. I am amazed at all the companies in Ireland that have spent hundreds of thousands to millions on businesses and hotels etc that even on a good day without any loan repayments or interest would struggle to make money. I really do think you hit this at a good time as I have a feeling you probably would have gotten the money 3 years ago, but would you be very heavily in debt now?

Remember debt in business can drag you down mentally just as bad as personal debt. The key to starting and running any business is, research, low over heads, minimul debt and risk, long hours, no reward for years and dont get too big for your boots. Stay small for 10 years and survive and watch all the other guys go under as they buy their fancy bmw's..

on your idea though, Im not sure where you live but have you thought about maybe taking over an existing alley or a closed down one? Surely they are scattered around the country??

Am I right in thinking Dingle has one? Dingle?!! I mean Killarney ya maybe but Dingle has a tiny population!! In this climate you could take over one or re-open one with excellent terms, the ball is in your court. Yes you dont have a huge amount of it, but you do have cash, and cash is King..

DubTony

Neiler21 wrote: »

I apologise to you for showing some form of emotion in a project my friend and I have worked bloody hard for the last 18 months, i`ll bite my lip with you and move on, its best.

Re Mr Pillowtalk's post. Neiler, some huys have a way with words, but I am positive he means well. I was going to say exactly the same thing, but it would have been in a more caring, huggy, cuddly sort of way. There's nothing wrong with a kick in the arse though.

I worked in the family business for 15 years and got emotionally attached. It did me no good. I worked for peanuts basically, while my old man walked away with a huge chunk of change. Being tied to the place mentally / emotionally took away my focus on what I needed for me and my family. Check that emotion. Your original post has a sense of "poor me" about it, and when that's picked up some people don't even bother posting. Be glad of the replies.

I feel your budget (even for starting up) was way too low anyway. If I remember correctly back in the early 90's Brunswick were charging about 100K per 2 lanes for a 10 lane centre (including computers, house balls and shoes).

Maybe this is for the best for you. Many avid bowlers can't even keep score without computers. And most people expect all the bells and whistles in a leisure centre these days.

Just move on now, i feel ive wasted 18 months of my life to a project that wont get started, i dont want to waste any more, onto the next idea and maybe even the next one after that, who knows but one day.

You're young and ambitious and 18 months is nothing. At your age I had so many ideas and was so frustrated at my inability to get them started that I ended up in possibly the worst place I could working for Daddy :rolleyes:. As has been said here already, relax, you'll get there. Good luck.

Neiler21

FusionNet and DubTony - Thank you very much for your replies I appreciate it very much.

DubTony - I hear what your saying, after reading over my original post it does look like a " poor me " but trust me if you knew me, that is not the case, i love constructive critism as i believe its the only way we learn, listen to others and dont make the mistakes they have made, i dont for one second believe that right now I am any kind of top business mogul and that i know everything because im not naive enough to think that, i do however have alot of ambitous and tie this with determination and ive got a good foundation for start up, I think its just a kick in the arse for me and i will learn from this.

Ive been using my brother as a form of mentor also the whole way through and he has been brilliant with me, no bull****ting and he reckons that maybe it just wasnt our time, as things happen for a reason, things can fall into place easy or can quickly fall out of place, he runs a successful bar and restuarant for over 10 years now and has done very well for himself, but he never once offered me any form of investment, nor did i ask for any, and i appreciate this now more, as i know its not to be mean or because he doesnt believe in me, its because he started with nothing, just like me, and now has set up his life and he is only 45. I`ll go, lick my wounds, gather my thoughts, keep saving what i can and see what my next idea brings.

Again to everyone who replied in this thread, thank you very much and let me just say it was not "poor me" or a sympathy thread, i love this part of the forum and come on most days, reading peoples ideas and the responses they get, and some great advice people give here, so i started this thread to let everyone know what was happening as i had shared my story before xmas so it was only fair to let people know.

Thanks again, best of luck.

Tav

Neiler,
Why don't you approach the 'big buy' and give him a chance to invest in you? You already have everything figure out, so he will save a lot of time and work going into business with you.
He probably doesn't have time to run the business himself and you don't have the money to start it, so you both can gain from this.

tav

patftrears

Neiler21 wrote: »

Just move on now, i feel ive wasted 18 months of my life to a project that wont get started, i dont want to waste any more,

It's only wasted if you didn't learn anything.

I asked you 2 questions at the top of page 2, if you really did 18 months of work you should be able to answer them with a good estimate off the top of your head.

You've talked about how there are some people who just want to see you fail, but some people are just realistic and have more experience than you and will see the mistakes you are making.

Answer the questions and I'll give you feedback on the answers, which will benefit you.

Everyone knows that you learn from your mistakes, but only if you realise what the mistakes are.

Hard work and passion are no longer enough to make things work in the current business environment, you need to use best practice's and innovate.

delllat

seriously need to re-evaluate your figures,u must be forgetting about some stuff

you honestly think you can build and launch a bowling alley for 120,000k in ireland ?

id say ud need closer to seven figures than six to build a modern bowling alley establishment

to open a decent convenience store would nearly kill your 100,000k never mind a bowling alley

how many staff did u plan on running it all?

have you factored in insurance ?

security systems?

cash handleing?

realistic setup costs?

staff wages for 18months ?

it will take a long time unntil u can break even never mind think about profit

DubTony

to open a decent convenience store would nearly kill your 100,000k never mind a bowling alley

pah!!! ... and the rest. 100k will get your fridges and tills ... and a shelf.

it will take a long time unntil u can break even never mind think about profit

I believe this was the reason the Crumlin Bowl closed. I believe there were a few people who had invested in it (10 if I remember correctly), and while it was a busy spot almost every night of the week, I heard it never turned enough to give all those investors a decent return.

delllat

DubTony wrote: »

pah!!! ... and the rest. 100k will get your fridges and tills ... and a shelf.





I believe this was the reason the Crumlin Bowl closed. I believe there were a few people who had invested in it (10 if I remember correctly), and while it was a busy spot almost every night of the week, I heard it never turned enough to give all those investors a decent return.

exactly!

now take the same 100k and see how far it goes into a bowling alley

Neiler21

patftrears wrote: »

++


If put so much work into this, you should be able to answer these questions.

Forget about the start-up cost for the moment. Here are 2 basic questions you should be able to answer.

What was you break even amount per week ?
Staff
Insurance
Electricity
Heating
Loan repayments
Etc...

How many customers would you need each week and how much would they have to spend to hit the above figure ?
How big is catchment area.
What is your target market, young, old etc..
Why would people go to your place, weekly outing, special occasion etc.
Why would they go to your bowling alley.

PS
"not long ago our local paper printed an article on how our town needs a bowling alley so this got us excited as we knew we have a market and it would be a success"
No town needs a bowling alley.
Newspaper articles are full of crap.
Market need is vital but only a small factor in what makes a successful business.

Hi,

Ive got a full excel sheet of projections done,maybe it would be easier to pm to you ? and any feeback would be good, even if it is not going ahead now.

to answer your questions, in the expenditure we tried included every possible cost and tried to be as modest and realistic as we could with all the projections,

staff - €2,016 per month = €24,192 per year
electricity - €600 per month = €7,200 per year
rent - €2,500 per month = €30,000 per year (had an agreement with the landlord that we would pay no rent for the first 7 months)
Insurance - €300 per month = €3,600 per year
Rates - €167 per month = € 2,004 per year
Phone/Broadband/Supplies - €400 per month = € 4,800 per year
Advertising - €250 per month - € €3,000 per year
Entertainment Machines (kids) - €660 per month - €7,920
Maintenance - €1,000 per month = €12,000 per year
Miscellaneous (inc hygiene) - €500 per month = €6,000 per year
Loan repayments (from set up costs) - €1,200 per month = €14,400 per year

Note : Loan Repayments from set up costs based on €120,000 over 10 years

Bowling Alley - Weekly Monthly

monday - thursday : €576 - €2304

friday €900 €3,600

saturday €1,080 €4,320

sunday €936 €3,744

Total Bowling €3,492 €13,968


Pool Tables

monday - thursday €50 €200
friday €96 €384
saturday €64 €256
sunday €96 €384

Total Pool €306 €1,224


Entertainment Machines

monday - thursday €100 €400
friday €100 €400
saturday €150 €600
sunday €200 €800

Total Entertainment €550 €2,200

Vending Machines €200 €800
(50% off income to supplier)

Total Income = €4,548 €18,192


Comments :

bowling alley- monday - friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night
friday - based on 4 persons at €6 for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night
saturday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day
sunday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day


Projected Turnover = € 225,568

Projected Profit = € 62, 452

Target market - teens - young adults - familys

our bowling alley would be great for a family day out and has the benefit of having the new kids adventure centre newly opened and doing very well,next door,combining both would bring alot of spotlight on this area,thus increasing possible profits.

Why come to our bowling alley- Its simple, for a fun day out, nice relaxed home away from home atmosphere with the latest in kids machines aswell as bowling of course,and being there is no other bowling alley within a 40 minute distance of this, would be very welcome in town (which has been stated in 2 recent local newspapers where they took to the streets to ask people "what does this town need and what would you like to see" 80% said Bowling Alley,market is without a doubt there.

sm.org

What are your fit out costs? I cant see any mention of them, you're not renting an existing bowling alley are you?

Neiler21

sm.org wrote: »

What are your fit out costs? I cant see any mention of them, you're not renting an existing bowling alley are you?

those are financial projections for year 1, not start up costs, im not opening so these are irrelevant really, i just wanted to answer the mans question, we calculated our start up costs wrong from a quote we got from one company about installation of a bowling alley, we were led to believe that it would cost under €100,000, after further inspection and asking a different company the cost looks more like €178,000 for the installation of the bowling alley and the equipment (computers,big screens,shoes,balls etc) , thats before you have the on site preperations and modifications including office,toilets etc) ,reckon the total cost would be more along the lines of €250,000, even thats depending on you know the right people,by that i mean i had uncles,best mate etc,ready to do painting,floors and plumbling for me,reducing costs.

lesson learnt and experience gained i think on this one.

stepbar

It's no wonder banks are negative towards startups. I mean are some people living in dreamland or what?

I look at some of the figures there and think to myself WTF???

Like for example how many lanes are in this place? A T/O of 225k in the first year :eek: Do you plan to give yourself a wage? It's not just as simple as saying you're going to spend X on maintence / miscellaneous / advertising per month etc without knowing what you would have to spend it on. You would nearly need to know the nuts and bolts of a machine in a bowling alley. How much does it cost to service? how often does it have to be done based on an average usage cycle? What media are you going to use for advertising because some are effective and others are useless for your target market. Simply saying that an advert in the local paper once a week is not good enough when building up a contact list on bebo / facebook might be as effective. My point is that there's as many questions as answers. You need someone who can take a good cold hard view on things, someone who is not involved as you are and who can give a view based on a lack of bias.

patftrears

Neiler21 wrote: »

Hi,

Ive got a full excel sheet of projections done,maybe it would be easier to pm to you ? and any feeback would be good, even if it is not going ahead now.

to answer your questions, in the expenditure we tried included every possible cost and tried to be as modest and realistic as we could with all the projections,

staff - €2,016 per month = €24,192 per year
electricity - €600 per month = €7,200 per year
rent - €2,500 per month = €30,000 per year (had an agreement with the landlord that we would pay no rent for the first 7 months)
Insurance - €300 per month = €3,600 per year
Rates - €167 per month = € 2,004 per year
Phone/Broadband/Supplies - €400 per month = € 4,800 per year
Advertising - €250 per month - € €3,000 per year
Entertainment Machines (kids) - €660 per month - €7,920
Maintenance - €1,000 per month = €12,000 per year
Miscellaneous (inc hygiene) - €500 per month = €6,000 per year
Loan repayments (from set up costs) - €1,200 per month = €14,400 per year

Note : Loan Repayments from set up costs based on €120,000 over 10 years

Bowling Alley - Weekly Monthly

monday - thursday : €576 - €2304

friday €900 €3,600

saturday €1,080 €4,320

sunday €936 €3,744

Total Bowling €3,492 €13,968


Pool Tables

monday - thursday €50 €200
friday €96 €384
saturday €64 €256
sunday €96 €384

Total Pool €306 €1,224


Entertainment Machines

monday - thursday €100 €400
friday €100 €400
saturday €150 €600
sunday €200 €800

Total Entertainment €550 €2,200

Vending Machines €200 €800
(50% off income to supplier)

Total Income = €4,548 €18,192


Comments :

bowling alley- monday - friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night
friday - based on 4 persons at €6 for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night
saturday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day
sunday - based on 4 persons at 6 euro for 6 lanes * 5 hrs per night + 3 persons at 6 euro for 4 lanes * 5 hrs during day


Projected Turnover = € 225,568

Projected Profit = € 62, 452

Target market - teens - young adults - familys

our bowling alley would be great for a family day out and has the benefit of having the new kids adventure centre newly opened and doing very well,next door,combining both would bring alot of spotlight on this area,thus increasing possible profits.

Why come to our bowling alley- Its simple, for a fun day out, nice relaxed home away from home atmosphere with the latest in kids machines aswell as bowling of course,and being there is no other bowling alley within a 40 minute distance of this, would be very welcome in town (which has been stated in 2 recent local newspapers where they took to the streets to ask people "what does this town need and what would you like to see" 80% said Bowling Alley,market is without a doubt there.

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

Neiler21

stepbar wrote: »

It's no wonder banks are negative towards startups. I mean are some people living in dreamland or what?

I look at some of the figures there and think to myself WTF???

Like for example how many lanes are in this place? A T/O of 225k in the first year :eek: Do you plan to give yourself a wage? It's not just as simple as saying you're going to spend X on maintence / miscellaneous / advertising per month etc without knowing what you would have to spend it on. You would nearly need to know the nuts and bolts of a machine in a bowling alley. How much does it cost to service? how often does it have to be done based on an average usage cycle? What media are you going to use for advertising because some are effective and others are useless for your target market. Simply saying that an advert in the local paper once a week is not good enough when building up a contact list on bebo / facebook might be as effective. My point is that there's as many questions as answers. You need someone who can take a good cold hard view on things, someone who is not involved as you are and who can give a view based on a lack of bias.

sorry but what are you talking about? i think those figures are very modest to say the least, and maintenance was added in those figures at costing €1,000 per month,we both know it wont cost that each month,maybe the odd month you will have trouble with a machine but not each month will you spend that money on it, that's the best part of a bowling alley business, it continues to generate revenue on the same equipment week after week, month after month, year after year. The bowling equipment requires virtually no inventory. Everything you do is paid cash or credit card. No chasing people for money. This is why it's such a great investment if it is done correctly, as for your advertising comment, who mentioned a simple paper once a week, as i sure didn't, i said on average we PROJECT to spend €250 per month on advertising,this will cover us for a weekly slot in our 3 local newspapers aswell as the odd slot maybe once a month on the radio, aswell as sites like bebo and facebook both of which ive been a member of since they started, as we know word of mouth is also a great tool and will be effective also.

I find it hard to see why you and some others in here feel the need to attack, ive explained as best i can and if you read my last post it says how we calculated our initial start up costs wrong,solely because of a companys inacurate estimate,still on our behalf we should have known better,that being said, as this project isnt going ahead we feel we have learned from any mistakes made and it can only be of benefit to us in any future venture.

Neiler21

patftrears wrote: »

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

I broke them down to read as " figures based on 5 persons at 6 euro per person for lanes,for 2 hrs a night " etc . . these are pure projections from our behalf, we sat and tried to be realistic and think "right, from our experience of bowling alleys over the years and recent months as we have spent alot of time in time checking numbers etc, we believe our 6 lanes will be full on a friday,saturday and sunday evening from the hours 5 pm - 11 pm closing time"

as said, they are projections after all and none of us have that crystal ball to look into to tell us exactly how much we will make, but what we can do is calculate as best and realistic as we possibly can, and i believe we done that with those figures, i will add that i cant take sole credit for these projections either, my sister in law who is well clued up on her excell skills lol, is a project manager for the HSE and gave some great insight and help in calculating these figures up with myself.

Neiler21

patftrears wrote: »

start-up costs aren't of huge importance if you have a profitable, cash generating business.
If the income is good you can get a the loans to cover them.

OP - can you break down the bowl income for me, I can understand them
"Friday figures based on 5 persons at €6 for 3 lanes * 2hrs per night"
is it ????
5(customers) * 6(charge per lane) * 3(number of lanes) x 2 hrs

2k salary is barely more than minimum wage for one person.

EDIT: break it down like the attached, banks will stress test these figures down to 20%
You need to know how many people you need through the door
How much they will spend
You could run the business for a year and realise, the pool tables make more money and you would have saved massive set-up costs by opena pool hall instead.

Attached are the financial projections.

stepbar

I see 48k in the first year start up costs would pay youse 2 wages. In other words a little under half the money you would borrow would go back to yourself. Seriously, is it any wonder the bank knocked you back?

Bandara

Neiler

I'm not having a pop at you here but them figures are so off the beam its a blessing that you never got this project setup.

I've only given it a brief look but you have one member of staff employed (other than 2 directors)?

You have 14 shifts a week to cover, also your lone staff member has 6 weeks off a year, at least another week off sick. So 7 weeks a year you have no staff other than you two. Your wage budget would be much more realistic at 60k minimum.

Even then this leaves you with only ever having one staff member on duty. You think that this is safe? On a Thurs/Friday/Sat/Sun night when you have groups of 16-20 years olds with drink on them all grouped in a totally unploiced environment that your not goign to have World War 3 basically every night? Also with no one walking the floor and supervising things they are ALL going to bring alcohol in with them which will lead to more trouble, and will make your place a complete no go for people who will be intimidated by the scenario.

As has been said I'd imagine the actually fitout costs should be closer to €250k.

You have electricity at 7200 a year, I'd at least triple that.

Security system? Going to set you back about 12k for the basic basic system (which would not be sufficient for your type of business), and it'll cost you about 2k a year to maintain it. And your monitoring service will cost about a grand a year.

Finally you have turnover starting at full trading figures from month one??? You'll be lucky to do half of that for the first 3 months.

So that means your going to have a negative bank balance of about 15k, then the bank will be ringing you at 9am every morning wanting to know exactly how much your lodging that day. They will phone you every single morning.

Honestly, your blessed this didn't happen. The bank would never have even considered giving finance for a project like this without a minimum of 40% stake money from you. And I actualy think they'd look for 50%.

You can take this whatever way you want, I have nothing but admiration at you going for it, but you have to accept the reality, you spent 18 months on this but went in utterly unprepared and not understanding any of the business. Neither of you have ever worked in a Bowling Alley I presume? I know nothing about the business but I bet you its an awkward bast**d to run at times. Why didn't you get a job in a bowling alley for the last 6 months? For all you know you might absolutely hate the business.

Anyway, pick yourself up, accept you made a balls of it, dust yourself down, and go again.

Good luck.

p.s. You paying yourselves a total of 48K in year one????? Come on mate.

stepbar

Great post there Hammertime.

Chonker

OP you have just made it so easy for these guys to have a pop at you maybe myself included but then I thought....... your plans were pretty flawed thats true but you are 22. I currently work with 20 - 25 year olds and not many of them would have the neck to get as far as you did which is pretty much just a plan, a dream & some projections. You are 22 mate I was told I couldn't do it either after my first failed business and my projections were in dreamland like yours. I left school at 16 had a child at 19, two jobs and very little else but a silly dream to build my own business. I'm 35 now, not super wealthy but have more than most and I have it because one day I wrote a stupid spreadsheet which made a hell of a lot less sense than yours did.

Take the cr8p and eat a bit of humble pie on this one but kudos to you for even trying.

People who believe will always shine at some stage. Dont ever get offended by people knocking your plan's or hard work. I really believe you will not win untill you fail many many times.

Seriously good luck.

jack90210

My one question I can't get out of my head is how it took you 18 months of your life to arrive at this point? Please tell me you were doing something else with your time during this period. Your financial projections look extremely rough and amateurish. I.e. it's only for one year, no investment decision estimators etc etc. Also, it seems all the market research you did was read in the local rag that 80% of people want a bowling alley more then anything else. They could have asked only 10 people, there might have been only 3 options on the survey etc etc. That's not market research.

Also, €120K to start a bowling alley come on now that's crazy stuff and with your inital investment only 1/12 of this clearly wrong figure you were never even at the peak of the boom of booms going to get this loan. Average people (i.e. not multimillionaires) don't just open bowling alleys, supermarkets, cinemas, ice skating rinks etc. because the inital investment so high. If your still convinced you can run a successful bowling alley go to the rich guy and see if he will fund it.

Perhaps you should go to college and do a business course.

By the way I really admire your spirit etc but your spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill.

Also, about people ringing you "gloating". Maybe they were just letting you know not to go ahead with any investment surely knowing someone else was planning on doing the same thing was relevant info. If I had a "great" business idea I wouldn't go around telling the world about it either btw!

Neiler21

stepbar wrote: »

I see 48k in the first year start up costs would pay youse 2 wages. In other words a little under half the money you would borrow would go back to yourself. Seriously, is it any wonder the bank knocked you back?

never approached a bank.

Vertakill

I think there's a lot of harsh words being thrown about but ultimately, they're pretty accurate, especially Hammertime's post.

The first thing that came to mind while reading this was.. What exactly have you done in the last 18 months? I'm not trying to knock you here but I did expect to hear that you'd done some serious work or lost serious money when I read the topic. You've gotten off very lightly.

The basics of the spreadsheet could've been knocked out in 1 night, leaving you a few nights of possible research where you monitored the average day in a bowling alley. Whether that be just lurking around a bowley alley all day examing how one is actually run, or getting a job there as Hammertime has stated.
Then a couple of days where you rang around getting quotes from companies.

Going by the initial plans, you would be working incredibly long hours without any breaks and you would also be earning very little money. This would be incredibly draining mentally and physically.

Also, bowling alleys can be a haven for scumbags so security would be absolutely paramount (and costly) if you were to stop families avoiding the place due to being intimidated.


As most people have mentioned, the first attempt is rarely successful and thankfully, you may have dodged a very big bullet here.


Fair play to you though - I'm 23 and wouldn't have the balls to do anything like this.
With your ambition, creativity and a little more experience... god knows what you could do!

stepbar

Neiler21 wrote: »

so this left us with the banks, I spoke to a good friend who works in a local bank and told him how we need €120,000 to get this open and he told me there is no way any bank would give us that amount, not in today's climate, no chance,

From your spreadsheet: *Note: Loan Repayment from set up costs based on 120,000 over 10 years*

I never said you did, but you based your projections on getting a loan and did mention it above.
The biggest mistake wannabe entrapreneurs make is trying to figure out much they should pay themselves. This will not wash well with anyone providing startup money. If anything you should be paying yourself little or nothing!

Neiler21

Chonker wrote: »

OP you have just made it so easy for these guys to have a pop at you maybe myself included but then I thought....... your plans were pretty flawed thats true but you are 22. I currently work with 20 - 25 year olds and not many of them would have the neck to get as far as you did which is pretty much just a plan, a dream & some projections. You are 22 mate I was told I couldn't do it either after my first failed business and my projections were in dreamland like yours. I left school at 16 had a child at 19, two jobs and very little else but a silly dream to build my own business. I'm 35 now, not super wealthy but have more than most and I have it because one day I wrote a stupid spreadsheet which made a hell of a lot less sense than yours did.

Take the cr8p and eat a bit of humble pie on this one but kudos to you for even trying.

People who believe will always shine at some stage. Dont ever get offended by people knocking your plan's or hard work. I really believe you will not win untill you fail many many times.

Seriously good luck.

Great Post Hammertime, I agree with you, as you have seen over my posts I know i have made mistakes in what i have done so all the critism i have been given has been vindicated, that being said you live and you learn, i have certainly learned.

Chonker - thank you very much, very sensible and straight talking replies from you all the way through this thread, i have messed up, i was careless and didnt inspect every aspect of the area i wanted to go into and by the fact i never worked in a bowling alley meant i really should have done alot more homework i guess, but lesson learnt, pride is dented but my spirit is not. Delighted to hear you have done well for yourself and I wish you continued success for the future.

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it, about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting". I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" , very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!! you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Vertakill - thank you for taking the time out to answer in the thread.

As I have said, venture over and for the best we agree, im just not ready .... yet ! thanks to all who posted.

delllat

Neiler21 wrote: »

Great Post Hammertime, I agree with you, as you have seen over my posts I know i have made mistakes in what i have done so all the critism i have been given has been vindicated, that being said you live and you learn, i have certainly learned.

Chonker - thank you very much, very sensible and straight talking replies from you all the way through this thread, i have messed up, i was careless and didnt inspect every aspect of the area i wanted to go into and by the fact i never worked in a bowling alley meant i really should have done alot more homework i guess, but lesson learnt, pride is dented but my spirit is not. Delighted to hear you have done well for yourself and I wish you continued success for the future.

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it, about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting". I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" , very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!! you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Vertakill - thank you for taking the time out to answer in the thread.

As I have said, venture over and for the best we agree, im just not ready .... yet ! thanks to all who posted.

I missed the part where someone asked "if you forgot about the fit out costs ?" and you siad it doesnt matter since its not going head anyway

thats a pretty big fcuk up

also the staff wages amongst other things were way too low

as someone mentioned youd need at least one security guard working at all times and possibly more than one security guard during peak times

if something kicks off a minimum wage cashier isnt going to get involved in it and 1 security giuard would have great difficulties kicking out a crowd of rowdy drunks

jack90210

Neiler21 wrote: »

Jack90210 - The last 18 months have not been spent with me just getting to a business plan and some research done, I participated in and completed a " start your own business course" which ran for 6 months, just to add to our experience and learn abit more about business in general and it did just that, so im pleased i done it,

Well done doing the course. How much did that cost by the way and how many contact hours was there? What modules did it cover? Again though: 6 months doing course (I doubt it took up more than 8 hours a day!), 2 weeks market research. What happened to other 50 weeks of your life?

about your research remark, i`ll give you a tip now, never assume anything, you assumed that all i have done research wise was go to a paper who had printed that 80% of people in my town would like to see a bowling alley,well no, my partner and I, spent 2 full weeks visiting every major college in our town, thats 4, and asking them all to fill in our questionaire relating to what they would like to see and the results were 8 out of every 10 students said "bowling alley or some form of leisure activity like go karting".

4 major colleges?? Only place i can think of with 4 major colleges is Dublin. Where we talking about here because I presume its not Dublin. I would have thought surely the target market would be familys during the day and kids aged 14-18 at night who can't go to pubs yet. College students may well go bowling every once in a while but on a student budget the vast vast majority of excess funds go on booze.

I have to say I have no problem with constructive critism what so ever, as its the only way we learn but I didnt like your comment >> "you spend your life wasting your time and eventually your money if you remain at your current level of business skill" ,

That should read: you will spend your life....

very sorry I have not got to your level of business, excuse me please as I am 22 and learning every day, more and more, when I get to your level maybe we can talk,right? get off your high horse!!!

I'm not on a high horse. Sorry if I came across as cruel or whatever but sometimes you gotta be cruel to be kind. Business is the cruelest thing in the world.

you know what i find funny about that though, one of my main mentors not only in business but life in general up to this point has been my brother, when my old man died in 1994 he took me under his wing since and has seen my want for nothing, hes been a rock,a true gent, always there to give great advice when i ask him and he told me some months back in fact that when he was starting off in business 15 years ago, he, like me, was at the bottom of the ladder and someone made a remark about his business acumen, similar to your remark, (thats what made me think about it) and he said it was true, but he never made on to anyone that he did know it all, just like i have done here, i held my hand up and admitted i was wrong, well today he owns a business valued at €4 million and with a number of propertys in this town, spain and a big devolpment in poland for a apartment complex coming this year, guess he built up his business acumen as he got older eh! Im learning i know that, you learn everyday you live, not only a 22 year but a 42 year old is still learning.

Fair play to your brother. I'm sure he took advice and didn't get emotive about it though.

Chonker

jack90210 wrote: »

Fair play to your brother. I'm sure he took advice and didn't get emotive about it though.

Mate I dont think your offering advice, you seem to be picking holes in an already agreed (By the OP himself) flawed business plan/structure.

I dont see one piece of advice in your last post.... actually it seems to be a very "emotive" piece. The OP must have upset you somewhere along the way. Or maybe you think he is lying. Either way why does it matter to you.

Neiler21

Chonker wrote: »

Mate I dont think your offering advice, you seem to be picking holes in an already agreed (By the OP himself) flawed business plan/structure.

I dont see one piece of advice in your last post.... actually it seems to be a very "emotive" piece. The OP must have upset you somewhere along the way. Or maybe you think he is lying. Either way why does it matter to you.

Thank you very much Chonker, was thinking the same thing, what is his problem? I have already held my hands up and admitted my mistakes and that i am not perfect, but he and delllat cant seem to let it go.

Cheers Chonker!

DubTony

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )

delllat

DubTony wrote: »

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )[/QUOTE

its hard to believe snooker and pool halls arent more popular in this country

Bandara

delllat wrote: »

DubTony wrote: »

Neiler, it's all been said here, so I've nothing to add regarding your numbers. But here's what I'd have to say about projecting figures. Always exaggerate your expenses, and reduce your expected turnover. When you work out the staff costs, add another member or two. Take your electricity, phone etc. and add 50%. Work out maintenance costs and add more. Keep doing this with each area of cost until you eventually have something close to your worst case scenario (excepting catastrophic unforseen circumstances). Then undersetimate your turnover. e.g. a ten lane bowling alley could have a quarter of the lanes used a quarter of the time etc.

If you find you can break even (or come near it) on those figures you can go ahead and put a proper business plan together (this is back of an envelope stuff). When you put your business plan together you should be then adding what you believe you yourself will bring to the business in monetary terms. i.e. how much turnover will be directly attributed to your efforts. IMO, the golden rule should be overestimate costs and underestimate turnover and work from there.

edit: Snooker halls were huge business during the last recession. (That one's free )[/QUOTE

its hard to believe snooker and pool halls arent more popular in this country

The key to them imo is getting a full bar license for them. Then your laughing.