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UPC Liability

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    #32
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    GigaByte wrote: »
    On his website if you read it, The threat was made by using his webiste!

    Next you'll be posting up more garbage like, "apparently he was using a Dell computer to post his threat"
    Using your logic this is ture.

    What are you on about? I know the mail was sent through a form on CptSternn's website. This does not make him responsible for it, it's just a web form. The only way he could have stopped that would be to monitor and approve everything sent through it.
    bk wrote: »
    Which is absolutely the correct thing for UPC to do. Remember UPC are likely getting legal advice on this matter or have formed a policy for this situation based on legal advice.

    UPC's own policy, quoted by thund3rbird_, would indicate otherwise. They say they will investigate claims of abuse.
    bk wrote: »
    UPC have a legal responsibility to protect the privacy of their customer and not reveal details of their customers to some random guy who emails their support.

    He's not asking them to reveal anything, he's asking them to investigate a complaint.
    bk wrote: »
    UPC also have a responsibility not to go looking into their customers private information without a court order. Otherwise they could open up a whole can of worms see, RIAA, Safe Harbor and neutral carrier legislation in the US.

    Also don't forget UPC snooping in their customers data could cause any court case later taken to be thrown out on a technicality.

    There's no snooping, or privacy issues. As a user of UPC, this person has given their personal details to them. Anything you do do oinline can be monitored by your ISP, and abuse of the service can lead to termination of it. This is standard for all ISPs.
    bk wrote: »
    It is in UPC's best interest to completely ignore your request, not look at any of their customers data and wait for a court order from the Gardai.

    Personally I'm really happy that UPC seem to be doing the right thing and are following the right procedures and respecting our laws.

    UPC's own policy states they will investigate complaints of abuse, and now they're saying they won't investigate complaints of abuse. Does nobody think it's wrong that they're not even bothered to look into this?


    In the end, you have two options. Send everything to the Gardai, and see what comes of it. You can also bring everything you have to your solicitor, and get him to file a civil suit to get UPC to reveal the identity of the person making the threats. If a court judge agrees, you'd have their name and you, or the user who was threatened, can take a civil case against them.

    Nobody's asking UPC to hand over personal details, all that's being asked is that the take the complaint seriously and investigate the complaint as per their own policy. This doesn't involve breach of user privacy, as UPC are entitled to look at all of this.


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    #33
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    GigaByte wrote: »
    On his website if you read it, The threat was made by using his webiste!

    No, it was a hosted website. If someone calls me and threatens me, is it my fault for having a phone? No, it is the person who calls. In this case they are on UPC and UPC were alerted, they are the ones choosing to ignore what is considered a serious death threat. The OP can't control other people.


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    #34
    GigaByte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭GigaByte


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    If someone calls me and threatens me, is it my fault for having a phone?

    With your logic, it's "phone line providers" fault then. :rolleyes:


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    #35
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    GigaByte wrote: »
    With your logic, it's "phone line providers" fault then. :rolleyes:

    No, but if I report it to the network, you'd want to think they'd do something about it, especially if it goes against their T&C, like with UPC, who are ignoring it.


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    #36
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    GigaByte wrote: »
    With your logic, it's "phone line providers" fault then. :rolleyes:

    Fault is the wrong word to use, and I was wrong to use that word earlier. There is a responsibility with UPC to investigate this, just as there is with CptSternn. UPC don't seem to be taking their responsibility seriously though.

    CptSternn has already done as much as he could, and confirmed the message originated with a UPC customer. It's now been handed to them, and they don't care. They should care that one of their customers may be issuing death threats to people, using their network. Their complacency could come back to bite them, in any criminal or civil court proceedings.


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    #37
    GigaByte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭GigaByte


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    No, but if I report it to the network, you'd want to think they'd do something about it, especially if it goes against their T&C, like with UPC, who are ignoring it.

    Yes it's exactly what you mean! If you use your phone to make a threatening phone call on the eircom network, they're responsible. Thats what you're saying. Go back and read your post. :rolleyes:


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    #38
    GigaByte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭GigaByte


    jor el wrote: »
    There is a responsibility with UPC to investigate this, just as there is with CptSternn.

    Yes I would agree with that, I don't think CptSternn or UPC are to blame. Or Dell for that matter! :pac:


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    #39
    Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    How is this thread still going?

    In this forum? :)

    If a crime has been committed, report it to the gardai like any other crime. Just because it happens on the intertubes doesn't make it special. 39 posts of the blind leading the blind around legal questions is no fun for anyone.


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    #40
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    GigaByte wrote: »
    Yes it's exactly what you mean! If you use your phone to make a threatening phone call on the eircom network, they're responsible. Thats what you're saying. Go back and read your post. :rolleyes:

    No, I said if anyone is responsible it is UPC not the OP. Perhaps follow your own advice.


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    #41
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    bk wrote: »
    Which is absolutely the correct thing for UPC to do. Remember UPC are likely getting legal advice on this matter or have formed a policy for this situation based on legal advice.

    .........................................................

    Personally I'm really happy that UPC seem to be doing the right thing and are following the right procedures and respecting our laws.

    Unfortunately UPC are not so careful always. I have been regularly getting publicity corresponce from UPC addessed to someone who is supposed to live in an apartment at my address.

    Other people along the Terrace where I live get similar type misaddressed correspondence from UPC.

    Recently I received a bill for this person from UPC. I decided to venture in the forbidding world of the UPC telephone system to see if I could get this correspondence stopped. As we know they demand an account number (I did give it a go without entering the account number or telephone number but got thrown off the system of course) so I entered the account number of the person whose bill I had received on the basis that If I put in my own that would be a good excuse not to discuss another account.

    On entering the other account number I was then given a considerable amount of information by the system about the account as in amount outstanding; last payment made and so on. None of the information was exactly earth shattering but I still felt it was inappropriate for it to be given out so easily! I then had to spend a further six or seven minutes listening to a mulititude of frequently asked questions about billing matters before I was put on to a queue to speak to a living person. Eventually in frustration I hung up and rang sales and asked them to pass on the message. I am still getting the misadressed publicity correspondence!


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    #42
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    dub45 wrote: »
    I am still getting the misadressed publicity correspondence!

    Send them back in to the freepost address and a note insisting it stops. I only had to do this once and they stopped sending me things.


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