hearing protection

lordarpad

Guys what do you use? I am finding the electronic plugs tempting admittedly:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2572995/page/16/fpart/1

and where do you buy your plugs/protectors? Can anybody recommend a audiologist?

clivej

Review of The Howard Leight Impact Sport Earmuffs
I have put up a quick review of these Ear Defenders here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055450042

bigred

I bought a flashlight from the place Clive got his earmuffs - they dispatched within 2hrs of ordering. I was in the US last week, so got it delivered to my hotel. Seems to be a reasonably small operation, so you get good service from them.

ronnie#1

Aldi is selling some electronic ear defenders this thursday for €25

might be worth a look???

kkelly77

clivej wrote: »

Review of The Howard Leight Impact Sport Earmuffs
I have put up a quick review of these Ear Defenders here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055450042

I bought the same earmuffs. Product is very good BUT I paid more than Clive due to no coupon code for reduced delivery AND UPS stung me for another €29.34 when they delivered.

If you are getting a pair, make sure the seller marks the box clearly as 'Gift item'. You shouldn't have to pay custom and excise duty then.

K

Sparks

Dunno ronnie. All the studies I've looked at have pointed out that hearing damage is done in the first few microseconds from impulse noise like gunshots, and the ANC circuitry in most electronic ear defenders isn't fast enough to catch it; but the ear is slower still, it takes a few milliseconds for it to realise it's hearing anything and to pass that on to the brain. End result, you perceive the shot to be muffled by the ear defenders and think all is well, but you're actually damaging your hearing.

There have been studies showing ANC ear defenders were the best choice for soldiers, but they don't exactly have the same requirements as target shooters. And there are really top-of-the-line ANC ear defenders that have a much shorter attack time, but I'd be worried that you'd never be sure without some fancy test gear that they were doing what it said on the tin. Cheap ones from Aldi, I think I'd skip. Personally, I'll stick with earplugs for air and passive cans for .22 and a mix for anything bigger. But your milage may vary...

Sparks

kkelly77 wrote: »

If you are getting a pair, make sure the seller marks the box clearly as 'Gift item'. You shouldn't have to pay custom and excise duty then.

Assuming, of course, that this is a gift item - obviously if you're just buying it for work use, you wouldn't mark it as a gift since that'd be illegal

kkelly77

Sparks wrote: »

Assuming, of course, that this is a gift item - obviously if you're just buying it for work use, you wouldn't mark it as a gift since that'd be illegal

Exactly! And Christmas is coming. Better start the present shopping.

freddieot

I had my hearing fully tested before Christmas (in a sound booth etc.) and thankfully even after 16 years of shooting , it's perfect.

I have used the Deben Slim Electroninc Protectors for about the last 6 years and they are obviously good enough. I suspect that as with everything else you are better off avoiding the cheapest models.

I also use ordinary earplugs as well, under the Protectors, when I'm shooting handgun in competition and also when there are a lot of guys shooting full bore down in Midlands. (Otherwise, I think the constant walloping is both uncomfortable and in the long term won't do my hearing any good).

Sparks

The thing with the earplugs, by the way, is to make sure they fit. The little yellow foam ones don't really have this issue, being one size fits all, but one study using the finnish army found that the custom made ones didn't work for everyone, and for those whom it didn't work for, got no real hearing protection.
(Those for whom they did work got excellent protection though).

pullandbang

I'd agree with Sparks - don't trust the electronic ones on their own. I use the Peltor's but have the electronics switched off and have custom moulded rbbber plugs in as well. In fact, if I could fit a third pair in I would.

clivej

kkelly77 wrote: »

I bought the same earmuffs. Product is very good BUT I paid more than Clive due to no coupon code for reduced delivery AND UPS stung me for another €29.34 when they delivered.

If you are getting a pair, make sure the seller marks the box clearly as 'Gift item'. You shouldn't have to pay custom and excise duty then.

K

I E-mailed them first and they sent me a code to put into their website to reduce the postage, $35 off hand it was.

It came via the US postal service and I didn't get cought for import duty on the ear muff's.

My hearing is in sh!te now anyway so these are to stop it getting worse, constant 'white noise' hiss sound from NOT WEARING hearing protection in my younger days.

mightyabhabelle

lads, I need ear protection to and also looked at the ones in Aldi but Sparks raised a few very good points. So would you wear the ear plugs when hunting and clays. What prices would I expect to pay and what sort of Dbh reading do I need.

Thanks Mighty

pullandbang

mightyabhabelle wrote: »

So would you wear the ear plugs when hunting and clays. What prices would I expect to pay and what sort of Dbh reading do I need.

You'd be crazy not to wear hearing protection, especially for clays. I can understand not wearing it out after pheasants where you might fire a handful of shots over the course of a day. You also need your hearing as much as your vision when hunting.

But if shooting clays it's obligatory, as is eye protection. Ideally wear two sets, muffs over ear plugs - the more the merrier.

clivej

Best bit about the electronic muffs are you can turn them off, as when shooting along the line. AND they can be turned down low if needed.

mightyabhabelle

thanks Pull and Bang. Ah dont get me wrong... I'll be wearing them for clays but was wondering if people use the ear plugs for clays would they also use them when out hunting. As you said, you might only fire a few when hunting.

Is there anyweb sites you would recommend to buy these from... and the models.

Oh and for the craic, did anyone get over to Aldi to have a look at what they had.

thanks Mighty

lordarpad

Sparks wrote: »

Dunno ronnie. All the studies I've looked at have pointed out that hearing damage is done in the first few microseconds from impulse noise like gunshots, and the ANC circuitry in most electronic ear defenders isn't fast enough to catch it; but the ear is slower still, it takes a few milliseconds for it to realise it's hearing anything and to pass that on to the brain. End result, you perceive the shot to be muffled by the ear defenders and think all is well, but you're actually damaging your hearing.

snip

Hi Sparks

can you point me to some of those studies please? Also if microseconds is true, no electronic muffler is gonna help because the fastest I have seen take about 2 ms ... which is so much too slow, it ain't eve funnny.

Sparks

http://www.nonoise.org/hearing/biblio/biblio.htm
http://hw.haifa.ac.il/comm/hebrew/Attias-Military.pdf
Physical Characteristics of Gunfire Impulse Noise and its Attenuation by Hearing Protectors

mightyabhabelle

nice references Sparks. So all in all is the consenus that you would be better with a good pair of ordinary muffs and a good set of plugs... rather than the electronic ones?
Any recommendations on plugs anyone?

thanks Mighty

Sandyman

Hi Clive,
I shoot alot of clay pigeon and I have used the custom moulded earplugs(Elacin Shootfit) and found that it was like living in a cocoon, you couldn't communicate nor could you hear a trap throwing arm. I also used the deben pro 9's and found them excellent except they kept falling off my head and I read an arcticle that they dont really protect your hearing. I use electronic peltor earmuffs imported from the states (Cabelas) they are an excellent product. I have recently tried a pair of earplugs anf also find them brilliant. They are incredibly soft on your inner ear and afford excellent protection, you can also plug them totally to get the cocoon feeling. They are £8stg.Here is a link http://www.avalon-shop.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=47_116&products_id=1668


Regards
Sandyman.

clivej

Sandyman wrote: »

Hi Clive,
I shoot alot of clay pigeon and I have used the custom moulded earplugs(Elacin Shootfit) and found that it was like living in a cocoon, you couldn't communicate nor could you hear a trap throwing arm. I also used the deben pro 9's and found them excellent except they kept falling off my head and I read an arcticle that they dont really protect your hearing. I use electronic peltor earmuffs imported from the states (Cabelas) they are an excellent product. I have recently tried a pair of earplugs anf also find them brilliant. They are incredibly soft on your inner ear and afford excellent protection, you can also plug them totally to get the cocoon feeling. They are £8stg.Here is a link http://www.avalon-shop.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=47_116&products_id=1668



Regards
Sandyman.

Those earplugs look very good and at that price are cheap. I must invest in a pair. MORE GEAR still no idea:eek:

Sparks

mightyabhabelle wrote: »

nice references Sparks. So all in all is the consenus that you would be better with a good pair of ordinary muffs and a good set of plugs... rather than the electronic ones?

Actually, the consensus was that the electronic ear defenders were the best choice for soldiers in the field because they gave the best combination of protection from blast noise and protection from getting injured because the soldier didn't hear a command. We've got slightly different requirements - "watch out for that tank" isn't something you generally hear on the firing line in most Irish clubs
From all I've read, my personal opinion is that I'll stick with the E.A.R. yellow foam earplugs or something similar for airgun (though I've a nice pair of comfy defenders for air pistol, where they don't bang off a stock and annoy me) and .22 rifle; and ear defenders for any other kind of rifle/pistol/shotgun shooting, maybe with plugs in as well for the bigger rifle calibres.

edit: BTW, don't think all .22 shooting is quiet; the noise level from .22lr pistol is shockingly high, well into the damage-your-hearing-very-bloody-quickly range.

Any recommendations on plugs anyone?

E.A.R.'s yellow foam ones. The custom moulded ones are better, if they fit you - in one of those studies, they found that something like 6% to 10% of the army recruits given those earplugs were suffering hearing damage because the plugs were slipping out (not everyone's ear canals work with the custom plugs apparently).

lordarpad

Sparks wrote: »

http://www.nonoise.org/hearing/biblio/biblio.htm
http://hw.haifa.ac.il/comm/hebrew/Attias-Military.pdf
Physical Characteristics of Gunfire Impulse Noise and its Attenuation by Hearing Protectors

I am not seeing anything about the time it takes for the damage to take hold in either of the two articles linked. Indeed I found the magnesium thing quite interesting I can see that anyting but the fastest will not really dampen the sound efficiently looking at a duration of 4-6 ms and a reaction time for a good set of 2 ms

But can you link to a study that shows the damage done in the first few microseconds?

thanks!

Sparks

http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Damage-Risk_Criteria.html