They took our jobs.. UK Refinereys go on strike

j1smithy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7859968.stm

"Strikes have been breaking out across the UK in support of a mass walkout by energy workers in Lincolnshire angry at the use of foreign workers.

Hundreds gathered for the third day of the original strike at Lindsey Oil Refinery after owner Total gave a £200m contract to an Italian firm.

They have been supported by hundreds of other "sympathy" strikers in Scotland, Wales and other parts of England.

Total said there would be no "direct redundancies" as a result of the deal.

The firm added that staff employed by the Italian company IREM would be paid the same as existing contractors on the project. More than 300 of its workers have been brought in to do the work.

Sites affected by sympathy walk-outs include Fiddlers Ferry power station, Warrington, Cheshire; Grangemouth oil refinery in central Scotland; South Hook Liquified Natural Gas terminal in Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire; and Kilroot Power station near Larne, County Antrim...."

Was watching BBC news tonight and they're all carrying placards saying British jobs for british people, and the BBC described some of the newspaper coverage as reading like a leaflet from the BNP. Those Italians are perfectly entitled to work there being EU citizens and all. I was wondering could this kind of thing happen here?

Ostrom

j1smithy wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7859968.stm



Was watching BBC news tonight and they're all carrying placards saying British jobs for british people, and the BBC described some of the newspaper coverage as reading like a leaflet from the BNP. Those Italians are perfectly entitled to work there being EU citizens and all. I was wondering could this kind of thing happen here?

The did take their jobs. It wasn't the Italians doing though (see Marx thread below )

Biggins

j1smithy wrote: »

...I was wondering could this kind of thing happen here?

I suspect it might as things go further worse here.
Then again, we haven't got up off our collective asses to get rid of Fianna Fail, never mind anything else from outside the state
...so no, I guess it won't happen. Apathy has set in!

propertypin.com

Be careful o.p not to post this on another certain irish forum for they will ban you if you do, thankfully on boards.ie we can debate things without being childish.

Zebra3

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/31/economy-trade-unions-john-cruddas

Highsider

Unfortunatley the same thing will never happen here. Most people will be to afraid to protest just in case they are called racist or the like. In general irish people don't stand up for their rights anyways. Most of the construction and factory industries have been turned into "Irish need not apply" jobs by way of offering crappy terms and conditions as well as pathetic wages. Still we'll be grand huh.:rolleyes:

Caoimhín

Nobody took anything. European Union treaties allows free movement of people and services throughout the member states. I wonder how many of these lads cheer on the likes of Ronaldo or Carvalho. No complaints about the Portuguese taking English lads jobs there.

I do have some sympathy for them but that is the bed their (and our) government has made.

ronbyrne2005

Ha, millions of Brits go abroad to work, the same people protesting in Britain today would be going mental if you told them they could not work abroad. How we made it this far as a species I'll never know.

Collie D

Highsider wrote: »

Unfortunatley the same thing will never happen here. Most people will be to afraid to protest just in case they are called racist or the like. In general irish people don't stand up for their rights anyways. Most of the construction and factory industries have been turned into "Irish need not apply" jobs by way of offering crappy terms and conditions as well as pathetic wages. Still we'll be grand huh.:rolleyes:

Hardly thr fault of the workers, is it? People will go where there are jobs. Employers should pay and treat foreign workers like Irish workers. Then the best man would get the job, rather than the cheapest man.

As for the British protests, I've always found British xenophobia a funny thing.

They conquer half the world and set up their Empire.

Beore they leave or get f*cked out, they rape the country of all its resources, treat the natives like second class citizens, create or exacerbate local ethnic tensions and then when they go home they have the cheek to complain when the Indians/Pakistanis/Irish etc... follow them to London looking for a job

K-9

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Ha, millions of Brits go abroad to work, the same people protesting in Britain today would be going mental if you told them they could not work abroad. How we made it this far as a species I'll never know.

But it's different for the Brits, Irish, Germans, {insert whatever nationality you are, here}

book smarts

When the dole is cut to 100 a week you'll start to see trouble. RTE are already subtly promoting it, pretending that prices have dropped, after a "phone call" from above.

Hard Larry

DeytukRjabs!!!

Latchy

j1smithy wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7859968.stm



Was watching BBC news tonight and they're all carrying placards saying British jobs for british people, and the BBC described some of the newspaper coverage as reading like a leaflet from the BNP. Those Italians are perfectly entitled to work there being EU citizens and all. I was wondering could this kind of thing happen here?

The strikers point of view was that the italian cheap labour was unskilled and not up to scratch with health and safety rules ,when there are many skiiled unemployed Britions better capable of doing the job .It's a free European market and the Italians were hired on the cheap by, irony of ironys, a french recruitment agency .

justcallmetex

book smarts wrote: »

When the dole is cut to 100 a week you'll start to see trouble. RTE are already subtly promoting it, pretending that prices have dropped, after a "phone call" from above.

Very same with property tax I'd imagine

Ulysses Gaze

When the PS cuts happen here, you'll see strikes here by CIE, Iarnrod Eireann and work to rule by teachers and nurses.

Whether people will attack the Dail like people in Iceland did to their parliament.....I'd have my doubts.

Mark200

latchyco wrote: »

The strikers point of view was that the italian cheap labour was unskilled and not up to scratch with health and safety rules ,when there are many skiiled unemployed Britions better capable of doing the job .

And no doubt they'd then moan about getting low pay while being skilled workers.

I don't have much sympathy for any worker protesting that they should be getting jobs over other EU citizens, simply because the job is in their country.

MikeStrutington

When there's not enough for everybody, territorialism will always come into effect!!!

rossie1977

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Whether people will attack the Dail like people in Iceland did to their parliament.....I'd have my doubts.

yeah i can't see irish people throwing yogurt at leinster house or holding hands in a peaceful vigil or singing songs to get the government to notice

Latchy

Mark200 wrote: »

And no doubt they'd then moan about getting low pay while being skilled workers.

But low pay undercuts everybody in a reasonably well paid job , expolits the low paid ( in this case italians) as has happened , and is happenning .

I don't have much sympathy for any worker protesting that they should be getting jobs over other EU citizens, simply because the job is in their country.

I think in this case the protest was about cheap labour doing local well skilled labour out of jobs .

.If they dont protest then there is no limit on were they can send cheap labour to do jobs they perhaps, are not quite as skilled at .[/

mike65

I imagine this nonsense will be popular for about as long as it takes for the lights to go out and prices to jump at the pumps.

population

Dey durp ur jbs!!!!

AntiRip

I have absolutely no problem with migrate workers here but when companies start employing them as they have done in my company as technicians and engineers with no qualifications and treating them better than us then I have. There is increasingly growing feeling of "us" and "them" in our company because of this. I blame the company fully for this and there isn't anything racial about it but just an unfairness.

gino85

jobs should be going to the people best qualified for it regardless of their nationality(as long as they are in the EU)

IvySlayer

Weren't they protesting over the fact the companies went abroad searching for workers instead of recruiting locally?

Nodin

Considering that the second largest group of Foreign workers in britain are Irish, its not a trend that would be helpful if it caught on.

mike65

Irish out! See how popular that is with the "brothers" here.

Nodin

mike65 wrote: »

Irish out! See how popular that is with the "brothers" here.

Indeed. I note from the news earlier those Italian lads are now confined to the barge that serves as their living quarters 'for their own safety'. As ever, people are seeking the easy target. I'd imagine they'd be looking for an estate in what they call the 'home counties' if they wanted to find the real culprit.

And even then, what they've done is perfectly legal, once they use EU labour.

Latchy

IvySlayer wrote: »

Weren't they protesting over the fact the companies went abroad searching for workers instead of recruiting locally?

That was part of the protest but when jobs are being lost each week throughout the uk ( and europe) by the thousends ,it's understandable that local people might worry if they see this as becoming the future norm and the trend .

AntiRip

gino85 wrote: »

jobs should be going to the people best qualified for it regardless of their nationality(as long as they are in the EU)

totally agree. I really don't care what nationality I work with but when I had to go to University for 4 years to get supposedly quality for my job and they did 'give' the same position to people with no qualifications it's not acceptable. We have no union so what can we do...

Mark200

If someone is able to do a job, just like these Italians clearly are, then why would you pay more for someone with a college degree or more experience?

Alun

AntiRip wrote: »

totally agree. I really don't care what nationality I work with but when I had to go to University for 4 years to get supposedly quality for my job and they did 'give' the same position to people with no qualifications it's not acceptable. We have no union so what can we do...

Well, you are of course, thanks to the same laws that allow Italians to work in the UK, or Poles to work in Ireland (etc., etc.) allowed to go and seek work anywhere else in the EU without having to bother with work permits and such. It works both ways, you see.

BTW, I wonder how many British workers there are in Italy, and how they would react if they were told to go home for much the same reasons?

AntiRip

Mark200 wrote: »

If someone is able to do a job, just like these Italians clearly are, then why would you pay more for someone with a college degree or more experience?

Sure whats the point of college so

galwayrush

AntiRip wrote: »

Sure whats the point of college so

For jobs that require a college qualification.;)

Highsider

population wrote: »

Dey durp ur jbs!!!!

?

Biggins

OPENROAD

Alun wrote: »

BTW, I wonder how many British workers there are in Italy, and how they would react if they were told to go home for much the same reasons?

Indeed sure you still get irish people complaining about foreigners in ireland and how we should look after our own, we don't have to look at the UK for examples of this, people have been moaning about the Polish here for some time now and other people who have come in, how jobs should go to the Irish only, I wonder how these people now feel about the many Irish who are now starting to go abroad for work.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

Indeed sure you still get irish people complaining about foreigners in ireland and how we should look after our own, we don't have to look at the UK for examples of this, people have been moaning about the Polish here for some time now and other people who have come in, how jobs should go to the Irish only, I wonder how these people now feel about the many Irish who are now starting to go abroad for work.

But, but we're Irish. We've being doing it for years.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

But, but we're Irish. We've being doing it for years.

Oh I know, we can't have it both ways which is what some people appear to want.

Mark200

galwayrush wrote: »

For jobs that require a college qualification.;)

Exactly

The reason for going to college is so you can get skilled jobs, but if these jobs don't require skilled workers (which they clearly don't) then why the hell should they employ skilled workers for more money?

ejmaztec

I spoke to an octogenarian English fellah a few years ago, and he let rip about hating the Irish with a vengeance when I told him that my family was from Ireland.

He had been a labourer digging the Birkenhead tunnel in the 20s or 30s, when a bunch of Irish lads fresh off the boat undercut the pay-rate and he lost his job.

Tigger

when did italy rule england for 400 years

ejmaztec

Tigger wrote: »

when did italy rule england for 400 years

Last Wednesday.

Terry

Thy're dead right to be protesting.

The Italians will send money out of the country and it will make the British economy worse than it already is.
The contract shouldn't have been given to a foreign country in the first place.

When there's a recession and people are losing their jobs every day, the last thing you should be doing is bringing out foreign labour. It's completely illogical.
Money needs to be pumped back into the ecoomy.
The guys on the protest lines will no doubt be drawing the dole too, which is more money lost to the British tax payer.

You can say that it's all legal and that the Irish and British have been doing it for years, but it makes absolutely no sense when economies around the world are collapsing.

Take care of your own first, then take in the migrant workers when things pick up.
It's not rocket science.

Arathorn

julep wrote: »

Thy're dead right to be protesting.

The Italians will send money out of the country and it will make the British economy worse than it already is.
The contract shouldn't have been given to a foreign country in the first place.

When there's a recession and people are losing their jobs every day, the last thing you should be doing is bringing out foreign labour. It's completely illogical.
Money needs to be pumped back into the ecoomy.
The guys on the protest lines will no doubt be drawing the dole too, which is more money lost to the British tax payer.

You can say that it's all legal and that the Irish and British have been doing it for years, but it makes absolutely no sense when economies around the world are collapsing.

Take care of your own first, then take in the migrant workers when things pick up.
It's not rocket science.

Fair enough I guess we better prepare for the 40,000 undocumented Irish returning from America, all the WHV's from Australia and also the many in the UK. Hmm that will sure help the unemployment situation here...

Mark200

julep wrote: »

The contract shouldn't have been given to a foreign country in the first place.

By EU law countries can't favour home-grown companies over other EU companies, simply because of where the companies are from. Contacts have to be given on the basis of who provides the best deal. Just like these companies can't favour employees from certain countries either, they have to hire employees based on their ability to complete the work, and how much they can be hired for.

Whether or not Britain should leave the EU is another debate, but they're part of it so have to obey the laws just like all the other members.

Terry

Mark200 wrote: »

By EU law countries can't favour home-grown companies over other EU companies, simply because of where the companies are from. Contacts have to be given on the basis of who provides the best deal. Just like these companies can't favour employees from certain countries either, they have to hire employees based on their ability to complete the work, and how much they can be hired for.

Whether or not Britain should leave the EU is another debate, but they're part of it so have to obey the laws just like all the other members.

A British company would most likely have hired British people, which would have been better for the government in the long run.

Mark200

julep wrote: »

A British company would most likely have hired British people, which would have been better for the government in the long run.

But the only reason why that would most likely be the case is because a British company would only advertise in Britain for the vacancies. Because this company is Italian, they presumably advertised in Italy...or just brought over existing employees anyway.

And breaking EU laws by hiring a British company would not do them any favours. Italy's economy would then suffer, and then they'd only give contracts to Italian companies. Then this would affect other countries, who would then only give contracts to home-grown companies. All this would then affect British multi-national companies, which would do a lot of harm to British exports.

Terry

Mark200 wrote: »

But the only reason why that would most likely be the case is because a British company would only advertise in Britain for the vacancies. Because this company is Italian, they presumably advertised in Italy...or just brought over existing employees anyway.

And breaking EU laws by hiring a British company would not do them any favours. Italy's economy would then suffer, and then they'd only give contracts to Italian companies. Then this would affect other countries, who would then only give contracts to home-grown companies. All this would then affect British multi-national companies, which would do a lot of harm to British exports.

Wouldn't happen.
How is the Italian company to know that they didn't offer the best deal?

javaboy

julep wrote: »

Wouldn't happen.
How is the Italian company to know that they didn't offer the best deal?

In fairness it can and does happen. When someone breaks the rules regarding the awarding of a tender, a ****storm very often follows. Remember the mobile licences thing in Ireland with Denis O'Brien? That went on for years.

If the Italians got wind of anything to indicate they were rejected in favour of a British company despite putting forward the better deal, they could sue for serious damages.

Mark200

julep wrote: »

Wouldn't happen.
How is the Italian company to know that they didn't offer the best deal?

If it was a policy to be adopted by the British government as you suggest, then I'm sure a pattern would undoubtedly appear...

And even if it wasn't noticed, it would still damage other EU economies and would cause them to do the same thing, which would in turn damage the British economy again

Latchy

Alun wrote: »

Well, you are of course, thanks to the same laws that allow Italians to work in the UK, or Poles to work in Ireland (etc., etc.) allowed to go and seek work anywhere else in the EU without having to bother with work permits and such. It works both ways, you see.

BTW, I wonder how many British workers there are in Italy, and how they would react if they were told to go home for much the same reasons?

Nothing is ever as simple or as black and white as that .Any british workers working in Italy would I imagine, have a skill that is required or not available locally . The Italians are trying to offload their own unwanted europeans of late , ie Romanians .