Taxi Protest Monday 2nd February - Dublin

sohappy

theres a taxi protest organised for monday 2nd feb 8-30am starting at parnell sq and going over to government buildings, you might want to avoid dublin city centre on monday morning!!:eek:

alkev

The Irish Times are reporting one at the Airport roundabout for tomorrow too, the details are a bit unclear. Does anybody know what the disruption is likely to be as I will be travelling during the hours of the reported protest?

PaulieBoy

Well screw each and everyone of them, shower of wasters.

Buffman

I thought they'd all be delighted, with all the midweek nitelinks cancelled from next week on, there should be more buisness for them???

irishguy

I think they are complaining about the increase in taxi fare, as now less people are using them. For once I agree with them (if thats what its actually about) the regulator doesnt know what he is doing putting up the fares when very few taxi drivers wanted it and the economy has fallen off a cliff. If they knocked 25-30% off the fares lots more people would use them and they would make more money.

Random

irishguy wrote: »

I think they are complaining about the increase in taxi fare, as now less people are using them. For once I agree with them (if thats what its actually about) the regulator doesnt know what he is doing putting up the fares when very few taxi drivers wanted it and the economy has fallen off a cliff. If they knocked 25-30% off the fares lots more people would use them and they would make more money.

Do taxi drivers not have the option of charging less than what's on the meter? Or setting their machine to charge less?

Johnny Volume

Random wrote: »

Do taxi drivers not have the option of charging less than what's on the meter? Or setting their machine to charge less?

Nope, the meters are sealed. Otherwise you could have all sorts of shenanigans going on. They could agree a price with the passenger beforehand and not put it on the meter at all but I'm sure that would raise another issue re taxable income.

Run_to_da_hills

Random wrote: »

Do taxi drivers not have the option of charging less than what's on the meter? Or setting their machine to charge less?

Meter rates are set by the book and can't be messed with. serious fines.

Random

Johnny Volume wrote: »

Nope, the meters are sealed. Otherwise you could have all sorts of shenanigans going on. They could agree a price with the passenger beforehand and not put it on the meter at all but I'm sure that would raise another issue re taxable income.

Right so, I'll sit back and watch how the discussion develops then. Whole thing seems bizzare!

As for these protests .. they serve only to p!ss off the general public .. the government ministers get a Garda escort through the mess!

Anyways ..

lcom

I recently got a taxi from the airport to Stepaside and it cost me €65...I was so shocked at the price. The taxi driver even switched off the meter when we were getting close to Stepaside because the price was just becoming ridiculous. The distance from the airport to my house is 22miles. So is this a standard price for that distance? Seems really high. The last time I got a taxi from the airport which was probably about 2 years ago, it only came to €50.

Ham'nd'egger

lcom wrote: »

I recently got a taxi from the airport to Stepaside and it cost me €65...I was so shocked at the price. The taxi driver even switched off the meter when we were getting close to Stepaside because the price was just becoming ridiculous. The distance from the airport to my house is 22miles. So is this a standard price for that distance? Seems really high. The last time I got a taxi from the airport which was probably about 2 years ago, it only came to €50.

That sounds about right. The meters are set on kilometers so 22 miles is about 35 KM. I won't go into the details here, this should make it clearer for you. As a point of reference, trips via the M 50 are usually longer and thus more expensive.

http://www.taxiregulator.ie/files/publications/Consumer_Guide_National_Maximum_Taxi_Fare_22-09-08.pdf

KC61

lcom wrote: »

I recently got a taxi from the airport to Stepaside and it cost me €65...I was so shocked at the price. The taxi driver even switched off the meter when we were getting close to Stepaside because the price was just becoming ridiculous. The distance from the airport to my house is 22miles. So is this a standard price for that distance? Seems really high. The last time I got a taxi from the airport which was probably about 2 years ago, it only came to €50.

I have avoided using taxis to/from the airport for the last three years, ever since I paid EUR 50 to get there from Ballinteer.

I now deliberately time my flights so that I can use the first bus and the AIRLINK - thankfully with online check-in that means I usually catch any flight timed after 0815.

I would only use a taxi where I was sharing with a couple of other people, as I simply cannot justify that level of expense.

A suggestion for your next trip would be to take a taxi / get a lift to Bewleys Hotel at Leopardstown and take the Aircoach from there. It will save you an awful lot of money!

Stark

I think they're protesting about the taxi regulator handing out licenses willy nilly. And for once I'm in support of their protests. It's gotten to the stage where you have the streets clogged up 24/7 with taxis driving around empty. And with the set fares, the customer doesn't even see the usual benefit of increased competition meaning cheaper service. The regulator seriously needs to get its act together.

baloonatic

Folks, i've posted here before but i'm doing research about the taxi industry, and i'd appreciate all of your opinoins.

CLICK HERE to complete a survey for taxi customers
please CLICK HERE if you are a taxi driver,

Thanks again,

Steve

Capt'n Midnight

Johnny Volume wrote: »

Nope, the meters are sealed. Otherwise you could have all sorts of shenanigans going on. They could agree a price with the passenger beforehand and not put it on the meter at all but I'm sure that would raise another issue re taxable income.

IIRC
BOTH the driver and passenger have to sign the receipt if it's different to the meter

Really there should be an exemption where the fare is LESS than the meter

Last taxi I got to the airport was €42

I reckon there is a killing to be made for a Hostel at the airport , €20 , free wifi and basic ,clean, crash out overnight accomadation

Red Sleeping Beauty

Buffman wrote: »

I thought they'd all be delighted, with all the midweek nitelinks cancelled from next week on, there should be more buisness for them???

Midweek nitelinks are being cancelled ?
All of them ? :mad:

irishguy wrote: »

I think they are complaining about the increase in taxi fare, as now less people are using them. For once I agree with them (if thats what its actually about) the regulator doesnt know what he is doing .......

Is the head regulator not a woman ?

Johnny Volume wrote: »

Nope, the meters are sealed. Otherwise you could have all sorts of shenanigans going on. They could agree a price with the passenger beforehand and not put it on the meter at all but I'm sure that would raise another issue re taxable income.

Yes, you can agree a set price beforehand and both parties must sign a waiver - I've never seen it done and I've never been able to get a straight answer from a Taxi driver when I've asked "How much to <destination> ? "

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

IIRC
BOTH the driver and passenger have to sign the receipt if it's different to the meter

Really there should be an exemption where the fare is LESS than the meter

Last taxi I got to the airport was €42

I reckon there is a killing to be made for a Hostel at the airport , €20 , free wifi and basic ,clean, crash out overnight accomadation

There's a killing to be made for a better transport service. I was just in the airport today for the first time since October and I see that Aircoach now have the prime spot right outside the arrivals door and they're setting up a neat little operation - their prices are grossly disproportionate to other country's airport transport.

Got a bus into Glasgow city centre and then a bus to their airport - total cost was £3.20 and xe.com tells me that thhat's about €3.50. €3.50 wouldn't even get you in and out of town on a dublin bus! Mind you the UK does have privatised buses which is rotten

Buffman

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Midweek nitelinks are being cancelled ?
All of them ? :mad:

Yep, no more at all, starting this week. Check out http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055472981

maggy_thatcher

Stark wrote: »

I think they're protesting about the taxi regulator handing out licenses willy nilly. And for once I'm in support of their protests. It's gotten to the stage where you have the streets clogged up 24/7 with taxis driving around empty. And with the set fares, the customer doesn't even see the usual benefit of increased competition meaning cheaper service. The regulator seriously needs to get its act together.

Why should they restrict issuing licences by quantity? That's equivalent to having a limit on the number of shopkeepers, electricians, plumbers, etc. It's just a self-employed business. Why not instead have a (semi-)difficult test for the taxi drivers to do - make sure that they know the city completely without relying on a SatNav, know (and more importantly stick to) the rules of the road. Then make all (current and new) drivers take this test, and make sure that they pass it. Make them repeat the test on licence renewal (how often is it renewed currently? To be fair, make it every 2 years or so), along with random spot-checks on both the quality of the vehicle used and they're adherence to the rules of the road / knowledge of the routes. I think that would make things fairer -- the good drivers would have less competition, while still opening the career up to anybody who was well disciplined...

Spook_ie

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Why should they restrict issuing licences by quantity? That's equivalent to having a limit on the number of shopkeepers, electricians, plumbers, etc. It's just a self-employed business. Why not instead have a (semi-)difficult test for the taxi drivers to do - make sure that they know the city completely without relying on a SatNav, know (and more importantly stick to) the rules of the road. Then make all (current and new) drivers take this test, and make sure that they pass it. Make them repeat the test on licence renewal (how often is it renewed currently? To be fair, make it every 2 years or so), along with random spot-checks on both the quality of the vehicle used and they're adherence to the rules of the road / knowledge of the routes. I think that would make things fairer -- the good drivers would have less competition, while still opening the career up to anybody who was well disciplined...

Thats the whole point, there are no qualitive restrictions..

A typical example..originaly from the 1st january 2009 ALL new entrants were supposed to be conforming to the new 9 year age rule and ALL new taxis were to conform to the new standards, goalposts were quietly moved, now if you buy a license from another driver ( any plate number under 45000 )then the age rule won't apply until 2012, also the new standards have been defered to Jan 1st 2010

from the taxi regulators FAQ

So what exactly is a “new” licence applicant and an “existing” licence?
The easiest method to identify “new” licence applicants is by the licence number. The first vehicle licence number that will be issued as a conditional licence offer from 1st January 2009 will be 45,001.
Any licence number above 45,000 inclusive will be termed a new licence holder.
Therefore any licence number below 45,000 is termed an existing licence holder.
Existing licences may be associated to vehicles meeting the current standards until licence renewal in 2012.

If I buy a second-hand taxi licence (on its own and not as a package including the car), say 41,505, do I need a newer car?
No, it is only for licences above 45,000 inclusive that the additional licensing criteria apply. Please note that these will apply to ALL licences upon licence renewal during 2012.

What are the new requirements in detail for vehicles associated with these new taxi and hackney licence numbers (above 45,000)?
Vehicles seeking licensing as taxis or hackneys on licence numbers above 45,000 must be less than 9 years of age. This will be calculated from the date of first registration and the date of receipt of the completed application form. The first registration date is stated on the Vehicle Registration Certificate and is to be filled in on the application form VL1. It is your responsibility to ensure that any vehicle seeking a taxi or hackney licence above licence number 45,000 inclusive is less than 9 years of age. Note that this will apply going forwards at all licence renewals, i.e. whenever a taxi or hackney licence is granted or renewed for numbers above 45,000 the vehicle must be less than 9 years of age.
Additionally the vehicle must meet certain basic dimensional fitness for purpose licensing conditions. Essentially these cover the luggage capacity and interior size and some basic accessibility criteria, e.g. ability to accommodate a folded wheelchair. The vehicle described on the application form will be checked against a database of vehicle dimensions. A PDF file is available here.

What is the situation regarding the annual suitability style inspection?
The Commission has engaged in discussions with other stakeholders in relation to the introduction of a revised Initial Suitability Inspection and an annual suitability style inspection and has not reached a satisfactory economic solution that can be implemented from 1st January 2009.

Consequently the introduction of the annual suitability style inspection (to be known as the Licence Renewal Assessment) will NOT be brought in until January 2010. Details regarding this will be circulated to licence holders by July 2009.

However there are additional licensing conditions for taxi and hackney licences newly issued from 1st January 2009, see here for more details.

Taxipete29

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Why should they restrict issuing licences by quantity? That's equivalent to having a limit on the number of shopkeepers, electricians, plumbers, etc. It's just a self-employed business. Why not instead have a (semi-)difficult test for the taxi drivers to do - make sure that they know the city completely without relying on a SatNav, know (and more importantly stick to) the rules of the road. Then make all (current and new) drivers take this test, and make sure that they pass it. Make them repeat the test on licence renewal (how often is it renewed currently? To be fair, make it every 2 years or so), along with random spot-checks on both the quality of the vehicle used and they're adherence to the rules of the road / knowledge of the routes. I think that would make things fairer -- the good drivers would have less competition, while still opening the career up to anybody who was well disciplined...

In answer to some of your points

1, Its no where near the same as restricting numbers of shopkeepers etc, the Government does not sell those people a franchise to operate which taxi drivers effectively are, a public service franchise.

2, I totally agree about making the test harder, its an absolute joke that you can do the preparation course and pass the test without knowing anything about dublin simply because they know all the Qs likely to be asked and give you the answer.

3, Licence is renewed every five years for driver but licence for car is renenwed every year.

4, Repeating the test on renewal is a ridiculous idea. You dont ask a Lawyer to resit there bar exam, a plumber to resit there final exam etc. If the test is conducted properly in the first instance there would be no need.

The taxi regulator doea not have the remit to curb the number of licences, however she has consistent;ly told the Minister that there is an insufficent number of taxis in dublin, when anyone can see that is incorrect.

There are 592 official taxi rank spaces in dublin and 15000 licences

The taxi regulator had an operating profit last year of 18 million euro. Why in the name of god is a relugatory body making a profit at all when there are drivers who cant pay there mortgage because of the saturation of the industry.

A good, well run, properly regulated taxi industry is in everyones interest. Presently we have an unregulated shambles which allows cowboys to operate and the voice of the decent hard working driver is drowned out by crys of we need more from the regulator.

Most people only hear of the Bad taxi driver stories, rarely are or triumphants hearlded. I know drivers who have saved people from attacks, given life saving first aid to passengers and more simply driven accross the city with something important left in their car for no charge. These are the kind of drivers who are been driven out of the industry. We dont want praise or medals for doing what we feel is our job and part of the service, but we do want to be able to earn a fare wage for providing a safe and efficent public service.

End of Rant

MOH

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Why should they restrict issuing licences by quantity? That's equivalent to having a limit on the number of shopkeepers, electricians, plumbers, etc. It's just a self-employed business. Why not instead have a (semi-)difficult test for the taxi drivers to do - make sure that they know the city completely without relying on a SatNav, know (and more importantly stick to) the rules of the road. Then make all (current and new) drivers take this test, and make sure that they pass it. Make them repeat the test on licence renewal (how often is it renewed currently? To be fair, make it every 2 years or so), along with random spot-checks on both the quality of the vehicle used and they're adherence to the rules of the road / knowledge of the routes. I think that would make things fairer -- the good drivers would have less competition, while still opening the career up to anybody who was well disciplined...

I don't really have a problem with drivers using SatNavs, once they get me where I want to go.

It's the idiots who don't have a SatNav, won't even invest 10 quid in a street atlas of Dublin, then don't know major streets I have a problem with.

Morlar

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Why should they restrict issuing licences by quantity? That's equivalent to having a limit on the number of shopkeepers, electricians, plumbers, etc. It's just a self-employed business. Why not instead have a (semi-)difficult test for the taxi drivers to do - make sure that they know the city completely without relying on a SatNav, know (and more importantly stick to) the rules of the road. Then make all (current and new) drivers take this test, and make sure that they pass it. Make them repeat the test on licence renewal (how often is it renewed currently? To be fair, make it every 2 years or so), along with random spot-checks on both the quality of the vehicle used and they're adherence to the rules of the road / knowledge of the routes. I think that would make things fairer -- the good drivers would have less competition, while still opening the career up to anybody who was well disciplined...

Force all current drivers to have to pass a more comprehensive test and problem solved !

maggy_thatcher

Taxipete29 wrote: »

In answer to some of your points

1, Its no where near the same as restricting numbers of shopkeepers etc, the Government does not sell those people a franchise to operate which taxi drivers effectively are, a public service franchise.

I don't see why the same rules shouldn't apply - in both cases you operate as your own business. Why should the Government say "person A has a profession of Shopkeeper...let them just start their own business as they see fit...person B is a taxi driver - we have too many of them, so go and be something else." Let supply and demand control it. If there were too many taxi drivers that you can't make money off it, then presumably the demand to get a new licence would also wane?

Taxipete29 wrote: »

4, Repeating the test on renewal is a ridiculous idea. You dont ask a Lawyer to resit there bar exam, a plumber to resit there final exam etc. If the test is conducted properly in the first instance there would be no need.

Fine...don't have repeating the test, but then we should increase the spot-checks to make sure that they are still up-to-speed. Also, if we make the test harder, we need to ensure that existing drivers can still pass it (and that includes the "old-timer" licence plates). Also - at the moment, as far as I'm aware, the "taxi licence" is just a standard PSV licence (correct me if I'm wrong), not one that is specific to operating a taxi in a given area -- so how about we introduce a specific taxi licence, in a way similar to the bar exams for lawyers that are only valid in a particular jurisdiction...which would also mean the banning of reselling licences (to ensure that the test is correctly taken).

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The taxi regulator doea not have the remit to curb the number of licences, however she has consistent;ly told the Minister that there is an insufficent number of taxis in dublin, when anyone can see that is incorrect.

There are 592 official taxi rank spaces in dublin and 15000 licences

The taxi regulator had an operating profit last year of 18 million euro. Why in the name of god is a relugatory body making a profit at all when there are drivers who cant pay there mortgage because of the saturation of the industry.

I guess it varies from time-to-time. Sometimes it seems that there are millions of taxis about, but at other times of the day/night, you can't get a taxi for love nor money...

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Most people only hear of the Bad taxi driver stories, rarely are or triumphants hearlded. I know drivers who have saved people from attacks, given life saving first aid to passengers and more simply driven accross the city with something important left in their car for no charge. These are the kind of drivers who are been driven out of the industry. We dont want praise or medals for doing what we feel is our job and part of the service, but we do want to be able to earn a fare wage for providing a safe and efficent public service.

End of Rant

I agree. And in general, I've found the smaller firms (or simple lone traders) a million times better than these massive companies who seem to just get lost without you pointing them every step of the way, or who route you the longest possible way to chance their arm and get extra cash (and then moan at you if you point out the faster way), or who simply don't show up if you book one in advance...

Taxipete29

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

I don't see why the same rules shouldn't apply - in both cases you operate as your own business. Why should the Government say "person A has a profession of Shopkeeper...let them just start their own business as they see fit...person B is a taxi driver - we have too many of them, so go and be something else." Let supply and demand control it. If there were too many taxi drivers that you can't make money off it, then presumably the demand to get a new licence would also wane?

From an economic theory perspective you would imagine that this would be the case but unfortunatly its not. This is one instance where you cant leave it to market forces, regulation must be applied.

Fine...don't have repeating the test, but then we should increase the spot-checks to make sure that they are still up-to-speed. Also, if we make the test harder, we need to ensure that existing drivers can still pass it (and that includes the "old-timer" licence plates). Also - at the moment, as far as I'm aware, the "taxi licence" is just a standard PSV licence (correct me if I'm wrong), not one that is specific to operating a taxi in a given area -- so how about we introduce a specific taxi licence, in a way similar to the bar exams for lawyers that are only valid in a particular jurisdiction...which would also mean the banning of reselling licences (to ensure that the test is correctly taken).

Your confusing the PSV licence with the actual plate licence for the car. Anyone can own a Taxi plate, but only a Psv driver can operate it. Dublin drivers do a different test to cork drivers etc and your Psv licencing area dictates where you can operate, not your taxi plate. I agree the test should be harder, but i know how to get from Blanch to Rathmines today, I will still know in 10 years time



I guess it varies from time-to-time. Sometimes it seems that there are millions of taxis about, but at other times of the day/night, you can't get a taxi for love nor money...

I dispute this, those occasions are so rare now to be virtually non existent. People think that because they stand on some obscure road and cant get a taxi there arent any. Go to a rank, stand on a main road or failing that just phone one. No shortage of taxis at all.



I agree. And in general, I've found the smaller firms (or simple lone traders) a million times better than these massive companies who seem to just get lost without you pointing them every step of the way, or who route you the longest possible way to chance their arm and get extra cash (and then moan at you if you point out the faster way), or who simply don't show up if you book one in advance...

..

delop

I think there are too many software engineers in Dublin, can I get the government to cap the numbers of those? I dont think so....

At one time Taxi drivers were the 4th highest earners in dublin, when they had a nice tidy number with no competition, so now I ask you if they really couldn't make a living would they really continue to do it?

If you cant make a living doing it, find another job and leave it to those who can make a living from it....

Since when did Taxi drivers become public servants?

Stark

delop wrote: »

I think there are too many software engineers in Dublin, can I get the government to cap the numbers of those? I dont think so....

A surplus of software engineers means that employers can afford to be picky and hire higher quality engineers at lower costs. So it's a win for employers. Now imagine the situation if the salary for a software engineer was set from on high, all software engineers got paid the same regardless of experience and the employer was forced to hire the first engineer that walked in their door, without getting a chance to select the best candidate. No-one would win in that scenario.

maggy_thatcher

Stark wrote: »

A surplus of software engineers means that employers can afford to be picky and hire higher quality engineers at lower costs. So it's a win for employers. Now imagine the situation if the salary for a software engineer was set from on high, all software engineers got paid the same regardless of experience and the employer was forced to hire the first engineer that walked in their door, without getting a chance to select the best candidate. No-one would win in that scenario.

Hmm - sounds like the best way to do it would be a "land-rush" -- put out say 2,500 plates out to tender every year, with a 5 year lifespan on them. Then have applicants take a very difficult test, and pick the top 2,500 scorers? I'm sure the current drivers wouldn't like that very much though! Treat it the same as any other public contract, like the recycling contract etc.

delop

Stark wrote: »

Now imagine the situation if the salary for a software engineer was set from on high,

Well that would work out great in a recession as I woudlnt have had to take wages cuts in the IT recession which never improved since that time and are not likely to now

Stark wrote: »

all software engineers got paid the same regardless of experience and the employer was forced to hire the first engineer that walked in their door, without getting a chance to select the best candidate.

One can only dream.....

Now are you saying that there would be some difference between a Taxi driver with 10yrs experience and one with 5yrs?

Stark

delop wrote: »

Well that would work out great in a recession as I woudlnt have had to take wages cuts in the IT recession which never improved since that time and are not likely to now

You should have gotten yourself another job or at least indicated moves to while it was a candidate's market. No company parts with money out of the goodness of its heart.

delop wrote: »

One can only dream.....

Now are you saying that there would be some difference between a Taxi driver with 10yrs experience and one with 5yrs?

Different metrics for different professions. There is a massive gulf in driving skills and people skills between the good taxi drivers and the chancers. This isn't something that a customer can easily determine when getting into a taxi, but we could have tests like maggy-thatcher suggested.

Taxipete29

delop wrote: »

I think there are too many software engineers in Dublin, can I get the government to cap the numbers of those? I dont think so....

At one time Taxi drivers were the 4th highest earners in dublin, when they had a nice tidy number with no competition, so now I ask you if they really couldn't make a living would they really continue to do it?

If you cant make a living doing it, find another job and leave it to those who can make a living from it....

Since when did Taxi drivers become public servants?

You miss the whole point. You do not pay the Government €6500 to become a sortware enginneer. You dont pay a licence renewal fee every year when your a software engineer.

Yes 2000 guys milked it back in the day, then we had de-regulation and it opened it up to the rest of us. No one is trying to justify what went on in bygone days, that was wrong which is why the industry was opened up.

The problem is there are no other jobs anymore, and every time a company makes people redundant we get more drivers on the road so that they are not filling up the live register. Thats what its all about. Social welfare actively encourages low-skill unemployed people to get into the taxi game as a way of getting them off the dole. This is wrong and makes a mockery of the industry as a whole as it is seen as a dumping ground for everyone who cant get a job elsewhere.

Taxi drivers are not public servants but do provide a Public Service and there is a difference

Taxipete29

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Hmm - sounds like the best way to do it would be a "land-rush" -- put out say 2,500 plates out to tender every year, with a 5 year lifespan on them. Then have applicants take a very difficult test, and pick the top 2,500 scorers? I'm sure the current drivers wouldn't like that very much though! Treat it the same as any other public contract, like the recycling contract etc.

Its not a public contract ,Its a franchise.

This would be my plan for what its worth.

1, The test must be harder, make it similar to the knowledge test that london cabbies go through. Its far more rigarous.

2 Put a moratorium on licences for 5 years

3 If you wish to exit the industry the regulator will buy back your licence for what you paid. The same applies for retirement, death etc.

4 You must own a PSV licence to own a Taxi plate( this is not true at the monent)

5 No person may own more than one Taxi plate.

6 Conduct a study to work out the optimum numbers of Taxis needed for each area so that the public are well served and drivers can earn a living. My opinion for dublin is between 9 and 10000.

7 Each saloon car must be one of 2 types.
My recommendations would be:
a, Skoda Octavia
b, Toyota Avensis and neither car may be more than 10yo

For Executive cars
a, E class Mercedes
b, Lexus ( unsure of model without research) These cars may exceed the 10 year limit provided they are in condition befitting their use

For Wheelchair accesible and 8 person vehicles
a, Nissan Primastar
b, Fiat Scudo and neither of these may be older than 5 years, but will be exempt from VRT

This would standardise the fleet and make them more recognisible and easier to regulate standards with them.

8 All persons who pass the new test would be subject to a proper security check by the Gardai and no person with a criminal conviction may drive a taxi.
In the case of immigrants who now make up a % of drivers, living in the country for 3 years with no criminal record for that time would qualify. As public safety is paramount I dont feel that this is out of line as it is difficult for Gardai to perform proper background checks on people from outside this jurisdiction.

9 Drivers must keep a copy of a reciept for every job they do and each driver must maintain proper accounts of work done, hours worked and money earned. Any incidents which occur in the taxi which may lead to a compliant being made must be logged and forwarded to the regulator. If no complaint is made the incident is not recorded and driver suffers no investigation. If a compliant is made within a set time frame say 3 weeks, then regulator may already have drivers side on record and allows the complaint to be dealt with more efficently. If a complaint is made and driver has not logged an incident, the situation will be investigated to determine what happened.

10 More ranks space to be created in the city including temporary ranks for peak time usage. As a result of this on certain nights ie

Friday Nights between 8pm and 5am
Saturday Nights between 8pm and 5am
Bank Holiday Sundays, Patricks Day and New Years Eve

Within certain limits of the immediate city centre, taxis may only stop and pick up fares at established ranks. This would reduce the chaos which insues when thousands of people are clammering the streets for taxis, it keeps the traffic moving during those time and also gives every member of the public a fair and equal oppurtunity to get a taxi.


This would be my 10 point plan. There is nothing in this which is either unrealistic or unworkable from my point of view as a Taxi driver of 5 years.

Terrontress

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its not a public contract ,Its a franchise.

This would be my plan for what its worth.

1, The test must be harder, make it similar to the knowledge test that london cabbies go through. Its far more rigarous.

2 Put a moratorium on licences for 5 years

Does 2 not cancel 1? If nobody is getting a license for five years, why do they need to sharpen up the test? In any case it is the same issue that the guys currently in it are sitting pretty and it becomes a closed shop? Five years down the line we will have taxi drivers blocking the roads as they want to have the moratorium extended.

3 If you wish to exit the industry the regulator will buy back your licence for what you paid. The same applies for retirement, death etc.

Is this the same with other licenses? Fishing, transport of hazardous materials or the fee to get a driving license?

7 Each saloon car must be one of 2 types.
My recommendations would be:
a, Skoda Octavia
b, Toyota Avensis and neither car may be more than 10yo

For Executive cars
a, E class Mercedes
b, Lexus ( unsure of model without research) These cars may exceed the 10 year limit provided they are in condition befitting their use

For Wheelchair accesible and 8 person vehicles
a, Nissan Primastar
b, Fiat Scudo and neither of these may be older than 5 years, but will be exempt from VRT

What is the point in giving these manufacturers the monopoly? Surely it is better to impose strict standards and those who meet them can qualify. Look at New York. Traditionally all cars were Ford Crown Victoria. Recently I was there and there is a greater diversity in cars. Not just 6 seaters either. Same in Germany. 10 years ago try to find a car that wasn't an E-Class. Now there are all sorts.

Even with the strict criteria in London, there are three manufacturers of taxi that I have seen. LTI, Asquith and Metrocab. Outside of London, Peugeots, Fiats can qualify. Fair enough, there aren't many Asquiths but at least they qualify.

As for VRT, if I thought I could get a Scudo, VRT free and go up and down the bus lanes and not have to pay road tax for the sake of buying a taxi license, I'd get one tomorrow.

Strict criteria for entry, one colour, GPS in the back and a big shield driven through the bonnet like in New York. That's the way forward.

8 All persons who pass the new test would be subject to a proper security check by the Gardai and no person with a criminal conviction may drive a taxi.
In the case of immigrants who now make up a % of drivers, living in the country for 3 years with no criminal record for that time would qualify. As public safety is paramount I dont feel that this is out of line as it is difficult for Gardai to perform proper background checks on people from outside this jurisdiction.

Illegal for EU nationals.

9 Drivers must keep a copy of a reciept for every job they do and each driver must maintain proper accounts of work done, hours worked and money earned. Any incidents which occur in the taxi which may lead to a compliant being made must be logged and forwarded to the regulator. If no complaint is made the incident is not recorded and driver suffers no investigation. If a compliant is made within a set time frame say 3 weeks, then regulator may already have drivers side on record and allows the complaint to be dealt with more efficently. If a complaint is made and driver has not logged an incident, the situation will be investigated to determine what happened.

10 More ranks space to be created in the city including temporary ranks for peak time usage. As a result of this on certain nights ie

Friday Nights between 8pm and 5am
Saturday Nights between 8pm and 5am
Bank Holiday Sundays, Patricks Day and New Years Eve

Within certain limits of the immediate city centre, taxis may only stop and pick up fares at established ranks. This would reduce the chaos which insues when thousands of people are clammering the streets for taxis, it keeps the traffic moving during those time and also gives every member of the public a fair and equal oppurtunity to get a taxi.

Yeah, why not. Number 9 would make it easier to ensure proper income tax is being paid.

This would be my 10 point plan. There is nothing in this which is either unrealistic or unworkable from my point of view as a Taxi driver of 5 years.

There will always be complaints, no matter what. I think the laissez-faire approach is best.

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

Does 2 not cancel 1? If nobody is getting a license for five years, why do they need to sharpen up the test? In any case it is the same issue that the guys currently in it are sitting pretty and it becomes a closed shop? Five years down the line we will have taxi drivers blocking the roads as they want to have the moratorium extended.It does not become a closed shop because people leave, die, retire etc.There will always be a need for new drivers, but to replace old ones. If in 5 years the service is working well for both the public and drivers the moratorium will stay

Is this the same with other licenses? Fishing, transport of hazardous materials or the fee to get a driving license?
This would be done so the regulator would have control over the licences. As it stands they can be sold to anyone. Taxi licences have a value unlike the other licences you mentioned



What is the point in giving these manufacturers the monopoly? Surely it is better to impose strict standards and those who meet them can qualify. Look at New York. Traditionally all cars were Ford Crown Victoria. Recently I was there and there is a greater diversity in cars. Not just 6 seaters either. Same in Germany. 10 years ago try to find a car that wasn't an E-Class. Now there are all sorts.
In my opinion these are the cars most suitable for purpose in Ireland. Diversity doesnt make it better

Even with the strict criteria in London, there are three manufacturers of taxi that I have seen. LTI, Asquith and Metrocab. Outside of London, Peugeots, Fiats can qualify. Fair enough, there aren't many Asquiths but at least they qualify.

As for VRT, if I thought I could get a Scudo, VRT free and go up and down the bus lanes and not have to pay road tax for the sake of buying a taxi license, I'd get one tomorrow.
technically you can, its not straightforward. But why shouldnt people who provide accesible vehicles for wheelchairs get an incentive??? A person who has a disabiltity can buy a car that needs a modifacation VRT free




Illegal for EU nationals.
The group Im targeting this at arent from the EU


Yeah, why not. Number 9 would make it easier to ensure proper income tax is being paid. Thats part of it


There will always be complaints, no matter what. I think the laissez-faire approach is best.

Yes there will always be complaints, but Laissez-faire hasnt worked up to now, time for new ideas

Terrontress

I'd say the only proposals of yours which might make it into fruition are those which audit the drivers more closely in terms of keeping records for taxation purposes.

Ham'nd'egger

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd say the only proposals of yours which might make it into fruition are those which audit the drivers more closely in terms of keeping records for taxation purposes.

There is already some level of this in a plate owner requiring an up to date Tax Clearance Cert (TC1) to renew his annual licence. There isn't an explicit requirement to duplicate ones receipts though on a personal level my accountant advised me to record all fare movements. Other drivers will print off a daily or weekly meter reconciliation which shows metered fares and distances; it's just a matter of pressing a button to do it and is very helpful in the event of an audit being carried out. That said, I am aware of a few accountants telling drivers that it is not needed for that level of detail.

The rigidness of that being applied will depend on Revenue having the resources to chase it; almost 30,000 PSV drivers is a lot to audit.

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd say the only proposals of yours which might make it into fruition are those which audit the drivers more closely in terms of keeping records for taxation purposes.

And this is the problem. If there was any desire to properly reform the industry the concerns of the drivers would be taken into account. We cant have everything and nobody is asking for it. For example how many industries do you know have ever come out strongly against a wage increase????????

maggy_thatcher

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its not a public contract ,Its a franchise.
8 All persons who pass the new test would be subject to a proper security check by the Gardai and no person with a criminal conviction may drive a taxi.

Why should this only apply to holders of the new test? Shouldn't it apply to existing drivers too? And will the licence be revoked in the event of a criminal conviction (Given the nature of the job, especially ones from the Road Traffic Act!)?

Taxipete29

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Why should this only apply to holders of the new test? Shouldn't it apply to existing drivers too? And will the licence be revoked in the event of a criminal conviction (Given the nature of the job, especially ones from the Road Traffic Act!)?

It should but you wont be able to take back licences from people who already have them if they have commited no crimes since obtaining it. The courts wont allow it.

maggy_thatcher

Taxipete29 wrote: »

It should but you wont be able to take back licences from people who already have them if they have commited no crimes since obtaining it. The courts wont allow it.

So introduce a new licence type? Then all "current" licence holders would have to get a new licence at renewal time -- and as a part of getting a new licence would be the criminal background check. That'd also force the existing drivers to prove their competancy with the new test as well, while not forcing them to take the test every X years? Have it similar to when the C1 licence was modified to require a medical exam - existing licence holders were required to take the medical upon renewal regardless of whether they had one already?

Terrontress

Taxipete29 wrote: »

And this is the problem. If there was any desire to properly reform the industry the concerns of the drivers would be taken into account. We cant have everything and nobody is asking for it. For example how many industries do you know have ever come out strongly against a wage increase????????

It wasn't a wage increase. It was a fare increase. Which resulted in a wage (profit) decrease. If a plumber decided to put up his charge by 500%, he wouldn't be long in seeing his income decrease. The drivers were not strongly against it based on whether they thought there was value in the fare.

Terrontress

Hamndegger wrote: »

There is already some level of this in a plate owner requiring an up to date Tax Clearance Cert (TC1) to renew his annual licence. There isn't an explicit requirement to duplicate ones receipts though on a personal level my accountant advised me to record all fare movements. Other drivers will print off a daily or weekly meter reconciliation which shows metered fares and distances; it's just a matter of pressing a button to do it and is very helpful in the event of an audit being carried out. That said, I am aware of a few accountants telling drivers that it is not needed for that level of detail.

The rigidness of that being applied will depend on Revenue having the resources to chase it; almost 30,000 PSV drivers is a lot to audit.

When a fare comes to €28.30, the driver will more often than not say "Give me €28" and the passenger will say "Have €30 and keep the change". In my mind, the €28 should be taxed and the €2 not. I don't see how it will be possible to monitor tax on this through the meters.

maggy_thatcher

Terrontress wrote: »

When a fare comes to €28.30, the driver will more often than not say "Give me €28" and the passenger will say "Have €30 and keep the change". In my mind, the €28 should be taxed and the €2 not. I don't see how it will be possible to monitor tax on this through the meters.

If I recall correctly, tips are taxable income -- and according to http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax/how_your_tax_is_calculated?tab=more this is the case. Therefore, shouldn't that €2 be taxable? Not that I can ever see anybody catching it...

Terrontress

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

If I recall correctly, tips are taxable income -- and according to http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax/how_your_tax_is_calculated?tab=more this is the case. Therefore, shouldn't that €2 be taxable? Not that I can ever see anybody catching it...

I wasn't aware of the legalities of it but if I were handing over a tip, I'd want it all to go to the driver.

Nermal

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Yes there will always be complaints, but Laissez-faire hasnt worked up to now, time for new ideas

Laissez-faire works fine for me, I can get a taxi whenever I want. I don't particularly care that it's not an 09 mercedes or that the driver uses a sat nav.

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

It wasn't a wage increase. It was a fare increase. Which resulted in a wage (profit) decrease. If a plumber decided to put up his charge by 500%, he wouldn't be long in seeing his income decrease. The drivers were not strongly against it based on whether they thought there was value in the fare.

With your first statement your splitting hairs. The point is most drivers were opposed to the increase as we could see the what was happening and felt it would drive away business. It was forced on us. We had to pay for the privilage of getting it and suffer massive incompetance when we go to get the meters sealed.

Taxipete29

Nermal wrote: »

Laissez-faire works fine for me, I can get a taxi whenever I want. I don't particularly care that it's not an 09 mercedes or that the driver uses a sat nav.

Maybe you dont but alot of people do care what kinda cars they get into and who drives them. Alot of women dont feel safe getting into taxis anymore because of the amount of attacks that have been occuring( alot of which you may not even hear about). Laissez-faire is the not the only ideology that would deliver a proper service.

AlanG

PaulieBoy wrote: »

Well screw each and everyone of them, shower of wasters.

Do you feel that way about all taxi drivers or just black ones? It’s amazing how some people can group a whole profession of workers together based upon a few experiences. It's no different than the mentality that produces blatant racism.
For many Irish people the biggest problem they have with taxis is that taking a taxi forces them to associate with and rely upon people they deem to be of a lower class.

mikemac

Do taxi drivers pay VRT on wheelchair accesible vehicles?
Maybe it was mentioned already and I missed it.

For sure we have many, many taxis but I know from experience it can be difficult to book a wheelchair accesible cab.
And even when you do book one you're worried the driver won't drop your booking for a lucrative fare before they get to you. Yes, it's happened!

If there isn't some incentive there then maybe it's something that can be looked at

Taxipete29

mikemac wrote: »

Do taxi drivers pay VRT on wheelchair accesible vehicles?
Maybe it was mentioned already and I missed it.

For sure we have many, many taxis but I know from experience it can be difficult to book a wheelchair accesible cab.
And even when you do book one you're worried the driver won't drop your booking for a lucrative fare before they get to you. Yes, it's happened!

If there isn't some incentive there then maybe it's something that can be looked at

Yes they do pay VRT. The only incentive a driver gets for having a wheelchair cab is that there plate is only €125 compared with €6500 for a standard plate, but the prohibitive price of wheelchair cabs makes it uneconomical for drivers to operate them unless they have guaranteed work.

My father was in a wheelchair and I totally realise the frustration people in wheelchairs suffer when trying to get a taxi and I sympathise but unfortunatly until the government step in and make it worth while to operate them, the situation will remain as is.

maggy_thatcher

So I see they're out moaning again. At least there's one benefit of there being lots of taxis -- when one shower are complaining and throwing their toys out of the pram, the rest of them can actually go out and get some work done, and punters aren't as badly affected (unless of course you want to go to the airport!)

maggy_thatcher

Looking at this latest protest - only 700 drivers came out and protested...out of 25,000. Does this mean that only 2.8% of the drivers are unhappy?