Define "Bad Call"

mark renton

Need help with the definition of "Bad Call". Everywhere I go in poker circles I hear "Bad Call", "blaa blaa blaa cry cry cry bad call bad call" . Is it just me but these words seem vastly overused by anyone who is either caught bluffing, or does not want to be called. I have on occasion called with middle pair and even A high if i feel someone is bluffing, and when the chips are coming my way all I hear is bad call bad call. I have 2 pieces of advice for those who overuse these words (1) make the raise higher (2) dont put your chips accross the line in the first place.

smoothcall

starting this thread

5starpool

A bad call is what someone makes with no reason or rationale behind the decision other than 'I thought they were bluffing'. If you cannot expand on that any more into why exactly why they were bluffing (including a physical tell) then it is only making up a reason basically. Just because you might be right *this* time doesn't make it a good call without a logical reason for the action.

mdwexford

Sounds like you play good, keep it up.

mark renton

5starpool wrote: »

A bad call is what someone makes with no reason or rationale behind the decision other than 'I thought they were bluffing'. If you cannot expand on that any more into why exactly why they were bluffing (including a physical tell) then it is only making up a reason basically. Just because you might be right *this* time doesn't make it a good call without a logical reason for the action.

If poker was all down to logic then PistolPete would have his 10gs by now

5starpool

of course it is down to logic. This includes knowing your opponent and how he is likely to play. Just because he 'could' be bluffing, doesn't mean he is.

How often have you made those calls with bottom pair on a whim and been totally wrong?

DrJFF

there is no wrong or right answer to a bad call in poker imo

however starpool gives a good definition of it

it is mostly a difference of opinion, i actually find it quite helpful if people told me i've made a bad call cos it gives me info into their game and i can use that against them

no matter how "bad" i think somebodies call is against me, i would never say thats a bad call cos i don't want him to change his ways and inform him that he is playing badly vs. me

this is a problem i see a lot is people berate weaker players at the tables and either scare them away, make them play much more conservative

you should never tell someone off at the table unless you can gain something from it!

never teach the fish how to swim come to mind

keane2097

john47832 wrote: »

If poker was all down to logic then PistolPete would have his 10gs by now

*facepalm*

mark renton

5starpool wrote: »

of course it is down to logic. This includes knowing your opponent and how he is likely to play. Just because he 'could' be bluffing, doesn't mean he is.

How often have you made those calls with bottom pair on a whim and been totally wrong?

How many times have you seen a player make a "Bad Call", and take in the chips?

phantom_lord

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/onlinefeature/gbucks.asp

keane2097

phantom_lord wrote: »

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/onlinefeature/gbucks.asp

Pffft - Phil Galfond, who the hell is he?

mark renton

keane2097 wrote: »

Pffft - Phil Galfond, who the hell is he?

Another "GENIUS"(note the deep sarcasm) poker player... who says "BORINGLY" (more sarcasm) that we should all play the odds and we will all win in the end (end of sarasm)

phantom_lord

and that's why you're busto, and he's a millionaire.

Icarus152

[ ] thread's future looks rosy.

happyoutscan

I only play online but it never ceases to amaze me the amount of ******* 'experts' giving running commentary and berating anyone and everyone for their calls etc etc etc.

I haven't a clue about the 'lingo' as I have only played at tables a handful of times. Me playing bad calls (and getting 'lucky') has forced MrPaddyPower to send me nice cheques on a few occasions!

Everyone to their own, everyone plays the game different. You make you're own luck unless you're too busy talking tripe to everyone else.

keane2097

john47832 wrote: »

Another "GENIUS"(note the deep sarcasm) poker player... who says "BORINGLY" (more sarcasm) that we should all play the odds and we will all win in the end (end of sarasm)

WE HAZ A TROLL!!!11!!1!!1

Chucky the tree

Can we sticky this? Seriously.

DeVore

A bad call could be defined as a call which, if you were to repeat it many times in the EXACT SAME SITUATION, would (on average) result in you losing money in the long run.

DeV.

mark renton

DeVore wrote: »

A bad call could be defined as a call which, if you were to repeat it many times in the EXACT SAME SITUATION, would (on average) result in you losing money in the long run.

DeV.

perfect - about time too - tnks Dev - "the amount of times a player makes bad calls" so why do so many "Poker Players" go around overusing the words "Bad Call" when they havent followed the player around???

5starpool

john47832 wrote: »

How many times have you seen a player make a "Bad Call", and take in the chips?

How many times have you answered a question instead of asking one instead?

I have seen people berate someone for making a marginal call when they had reasoned why it was correct to make a call. I have seen people make silly calls for no reason, yet be right on that occasion. I have seen people make sily calls for no reason and be a mile behind. I have seen people make marginal calls for good reasons but be miles behind too.

I don't really think you want a conversation on this though, you just want to espouse your view that everyone except you is stupid.

mark renton

5starpool wrote: »

How many times have you answered a question instead of asking one instead?

I have seen people berate someone for making a marginal call when they had reasoned why it was correct to make a call. I have seen people make silly calls for no reason, yet be right on that occasion. I have seen people make sily calls for no reason and be a mile behind. I have seen people make marginal calls for good reasons but be miles behind too.

I don't really think you want a conversation on this though, you just want to espouse your view that everyone except you is stupid.

Im hanging my head in shame... I'm berating people who berate people

keane2097

john47832 wrote: »

Im hanging my head in shame... I'm berating people who berate people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDLPDwsCZg

DeVore

Its possible, indeed probable that the people who say "bad call" when you call with ace high are simply annoyed that you called. Basic rationalisation, they tell themselves that SOMEONE must have played badly in the hand and it couldnt be them could it.

Other times it may well be a bad call. One with little or no reasoning behind it beyond "I want to see his cards".

Only the caller truely knows and only if he's being honest with himself. Which most aren't.

DeV.

El Stuntman

I don't think I've ever made a bad call

PM BCB or ollyk1, they should be able to give expert advice

thedini

keane2097 wrote: »

WE HAZ A TROLL!!!11!!1!!1

.

mark renton

thedini wrote: »

.
this is the fella that needed a 4 day poker strategy

Please check facts before you start personally commenting on other people

Zab

DeVore wrote: »

Its possible, indeed probable that the people who say "bad call" when you call with ace high are simply annoyed that you called. Basic rationalisation, they tell themselves that SOMEONE must have played badly in the hand and it couldnt be them could it.

Other times it may well be a bad call. One with little or no reasoning behind it beyond "I want to see his cards".

Only the caller truely knows and only if he's being honest with himself. Which most aren't.

DeV.

This is pretty much 100% correct imo. Second paragraph is the much more annoying one though, as the guy there obviously shouldn't be told told he's made a bad call, and it's clearly the loser's fault for trying to bluff the fish in the first place.

keane2097

thedini wrote: »

.
this is the fella that needed a 4 day poker strategy

Sentence fragment is a sentence fragment...

thedini

john47832 wrote: »

Please check facts before you start personally commenting on other people

i apologise

Mr.Plough

john47832

john47832 wrote: »

(1) make the raise higher (2) dont put your chips accross the line in the first place.

1. I'm sure for some crazy reason your opponent might have though you knew what you were doing so decided to 'value-bluff' you. I have a severe doubt though that you know what this is all about. Make the raise higher :rolleyes:. there are alot more way to bluff that just bet big. Alot of people will sense weakness if you bet pits too big. Alas, not you it seems.

2. Yes of course, lets all wait for premium hands and make the game a complete luckfest.

People should never try and bluff idiots. They just won't grasp it. Liek sammy Farha said, Against a good player I don't need a hand but I do against a bad player.

Which category do you fall into Johnny ol' pea?

Theresalwaysone

Pretty apt given its a poker forum that this troll has slung out his line and a lot of you fish have chomped on it so very hard.

Ignore the troll.

alanbb

happyoutscan wrote: »

I only play online but it never ceases to amaze me the amount of ******* 'experts' giving running commentary and berating anyone and everyone for their calls etc etc etc.

I haven't a clue about the 'lingo' as I have only played at tables a handful of times. Me playing bad calls (and getting 'lucky') has forced MrPaddyPower to send me nice cheques on a few occasions!

Everyone to their own, everyone plays the game different. You make you're own luck unless you're too busy talking tripe to everyone else.

I'm sorry to say it, but the man is right...

No direct offence towards anybody here, but I have never come across a game that has so many "experts" playing it. I don't play much, but I have been to a lot of tournaments and the amount of crap I have heard spewed about "bad calls" and the like would make you sick.
I'm not trying to start a row, but the game is 90% luck, just admit it.

alanbb

alanbb wrote: »

I'm sorry to say it, but the man is right...

No direct offence towards anybody here, but I have never come across a game that has so many "experts" playing it. I don't play much, but I have been to a lot of tournaments and the amount of crap I have heard spewed about "bad calls" and the like would make you sick.
I'm not trying to start a row, but the game is 90% luck, just admit it.

Irony ftw.

alanbb

Deleted User wrote: »

Irony ftw.

alanbb

alanbb wrote: »

Guy criticises "experts", not realising that giving out about bad calls and such is a sign of a poor player.

Guy then asks a forum which contains a small number of very successful players and a greater number who aspire to that success that poker is luck.

Does this in spite of posters like RedJoker, Van Dice, TommyGunne, Cardshark, Hectorjelly etc showing time after time that poker is a game of mathematics and "luck" is really a mathematical variance from a statistical norm.

Irony is there in a few places. My fave is the "90% luck" part though. The combo of maths and ignorance is quite beautiful.


EDIT: I understand the irony of me of all people writing that first line.

mark renton

peterswellman wrote: »

1. I'm sure for some crazy reason your opponent might have though you knew what you were doing so decided to 'value-bluff' you. I have a severe doubt though that you know what this is all about. Make the raise higher :rolleyes:. there are alot more way to bluff that just bet big. Alot of people will sense weakness if you bet pits too big. Alas, not you it seems.

2. Yes of course, lets all wait for premium hands and make the game a complete luckfest.

People should never try and bluff idiots. They just won't grasp it. Liek sammy Farha said, Against a good player I don't need a hand but I do against a bad player.

Which category do you fall into Johnny ol' pea?

Ye see that was me point - a lot of people commenting on other peoples play without being qualified. In order for someone to say "Bad Call" they have to see a players play for a while because technically a "Bad Call" has to be judged over time.. Apologies to anyone offended - thread was not meant to be contaversial, rather trying to gather an opinion on what I think is the most overused by the unqualified saying in poker

Icarus152

Actual Bad Call:

phone rings.....

Hero:Hellooo?

Clinic:Hello,this is the clinic with your test results sir.

Hero:Thank God,finally.

Clinic: Sir..........contrary to popular belief,what happens in Vegas dosen't stay in Vegas.......

Hero: What? what the heck are you on about?

Clinic:You have Herpes.

H8GHOTI

john47832 wrote: »

Another "GENIUS"(note the deep sarcasm) poker player... who says "BORINGLY" (more sarcasm) that we should all play the odds and we will all win in the end (end of sarasm)

You know what "I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT" John.

Icarus152

Icarus152 wrote: »

Actual Bad Call:

phone rings.....

HeroHawkeye:Hellooo?

Clinic:Hello,this is the clinic with your test results sir.

HeroHawkeye:Thank God,finally.

Clinic: Sir..........contrary to popular belief,what happens in Vegas dosen't stay in Vegas.......

HeroHawkeye: What? what the heck are you on about?

Clinic:You have Herpes.

FYP:P

Samba

john47832 wrote: »

Need help with the definition of "Bad Call".

A bad call = A good bad call

pocketdooz

alanbb wrote: »

I'm sorry to say it, but the man is right...

No direct offence towards anybody here, but I have never come across a game that has so many "experts" playing it. I don't play much, but I have been to a lot of tournaments and the amount of crap I have heard spewed about "bad calls" and the like would make you sick.
I'm not trying to start a row, but the game is 90% luck, just admit it.

Probably the silliest post I have read in a long time

For reasons perfectly outlined by Kayroo

bohsman

alanbb wrote: »

No direct offence towards anybody here, but I have never come across a game that has so many "experts" playing it.

Id advise you not to go near the soccer forum then. although the majority of them dont even play.

HoLLLLLaments

so much nonsense itt

TripleAce

In the short term is all about luck, in the long term luck doesn't even exist...zero-nothing-nill!

cooker3

Games are still good

Flushdraw

TripleAce wrote: »

In the short term is all about luck, in the long term luck doesn't even exist...zero-nothing-nill!

lol

There's hundreds of occasions where people make "bad calls". You have to understand the players thought process before you can call it a good/bad call.

I raise with AA, you call with 98...flop comes 942. I push all in and you call. Is that a good call or a bad call?

I raise with AK, , you call with 98...flop comes QJ8. I push all in and you call. Is that a good call or a bad call?

I push allin with AK, 2 others go allin, you call with 77. We have AK, AQ, 66 and you hold up. Is that a good call or a bad call?

Liverpool with finish 5th this season. Is that a good call or a bad call?

Hot chick from Coppers is giving me a pedal in the laneway. She drops her bags and asks me to fill her up. We dont have any wubbers and people are walking by so i tell her to get the boat. Is that a good call or bad call?

Icarus152

Define pedal.

EDIT: Scratch that found it

eagle eye

Bad call = picking this as your running mate

fatguy

Hot chick from Coppers is giving me a pedal in the laneway. She drops her bags and asks me to fill her up. We dont have any wubbers and people are walking by so i tell her to get the boat. Is that a good call or bad call?

GOOD CALL!

alanbb

Deleted User wrote: »

Guy criticises "experts", not realising that giving out about bad calls and such is a sign of a poor player.

Guy then asks a forum which contains a small number of very successful players and a greater number who aspire to that success that poker is luck.

Does this in spite of posters like RedJoker, Van Dice, TommyGunne, Cardshark, Hectorjelly etc showing time after time that poker is a game of mathematics and "luck" is really a mathematical variance from a statistical norm.

Irony is there in a few places. My fave is the "90% luck" part though. The combo of maths and ignorance is quite beautiful.


EDIT: I understand the irony of me of all people writing that first line.

Hmmm...

If you had taken the time to read the post you may have noticed the little inverted commas placed both fore and aft of the word experts.... to wit, they ae not experts at all but, as you say "aspiring players".

As for your second point, yes I agree poker is nothing more than mathematical variance but thereinm lies my point. Since it can only be predicated to a certain point the rest is random. Or luck, whichever you like.

Please take time to read the post properly, punctuation included.