Christians

mickeydevine

It doesn't bother me at all but I just want to know why so many christians come into the A&A forum. Is your own one boring or do you feel it is your duty to save us unbelievers?

philologos

Atheists are present in the Christianity forum, and I assumed that the welcome was reciprocal?

kiffer

Why shouldn't they?
The Atheists and Agnostics post on the Christianity Forum all the time.

ChocolateSauce

Two sides of the same coin; religion.

mickeydevine

As I said I have no problem with christians going into any forum they wish, freedom of speech and all that. In fact your presence gives a different point of view which in a discussion is always welcome. I have not spent long in the christianity forum (a quick look) but never felt the need to post in it as its not something I believe in therefore I was just wondering since every arguement/discussion in the A&A forum will probably be against your views and any point that you make will have little or no baring on Atheist views it seems a little self detructive to me.

Goduznt Xzst

personally I think the Christians here are a greater influence on making people turn Atheist than any of us ever could. The reason you don't see any "Atheist only" threads is because we have nothing to fear from them. It is nothing to do with them being more cordial than Atheists, in fact most of them tend to be either arrogant, patronising, condescending or plain oblivious to the flaws in their arguments. No amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise.

As this is an open forum, I think the spectacle of a theist trying to defend their position will draw in individuals who might of been on the fence about their spirituality. So I say, the more the merrier.

Rev Hellfire

Its no more pointless than atheists posting the Islam, Buddhist, Christian and pagan forums.
Though you would hope that with dialogue people would be able to appreciate views contrary to their own.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

Atheists are present in the Christianity forum, and I assumed that the welcome was reciprocal?

We are welcome in the Christianity forum ...?

well great, now I don't want to go there any more! :pac::p

philologos

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

personally I think the Christians here are a greater influence on making people turn Atheist than any of us ever could. The reason you don't see any "Atheist only" threads is because we have nothing to fear from them. It is nothing to do with them being more cordial than Atheists, in fact most of them tend to be either arrogant, patronising, condescending or plain oblivious to the flaws in their arguments. No amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise.

The reason we have Christian only threads is because we have doctrines that sometimes need clarification amongst believers that would be more relevant to Christian only discussion and passages which would have many Christian interpretations and adding in atheist / agnostic viewpoints on passages when they are trying to be clarified isn't really helpful to the Christians who genuinely want to see spiritual advice. Likewise in terms of seeking help and assistance with prayer amongst other things. These are matters in which Christians should be able to reach out to other Christians to seek help on matters. I think that is a rather noble reason.

The reason I would assume why there aren't any atheist only threads is because well atheism doesn't have a source text that is held as authoritative whereas Christians have the Bible. We don't have Christian only threads because we have anything to fear from you. Why would Christians fear atheists? I on a personal level am comfortable with my beliefs, and I have many atheist friends, we get on perfectly, same with friends who are agnostic.

I think the fact we have opposing views should be a cause for rich discussions and not dismissal of the others. I'm personally glad that there is such a strong Christian community on Boards.ie, and that there is a strong secular community on Boards.ie. Allows for much better discussion.

Zamboni

Jakkass wrote: »

The reason we have Christian only threads is because we have doctrines that sometimes need clarification amongst believers that would be more relevant to Christian only discussion and passages which would have many Christian interpretations and adding in atheist / agnostic viewpoints on passages when they are trying to be clarified isn't really helpful to the Christians who genuinely want to see spiritual advice. Likewise in terms of seeking help and assistance with prayer amongst other things. These are matters in which Christians should be able to reach out to other Christians to seek help on matters. I think that is a rather noble reason.

How to justify discrimination 101.

Zombrex

Zamboni wrote: »

How to justify discrimination 101.

Er, not sure "Christians Only" qualifies as discrimination, in the same way me asking the drunk guy on the Luas to please not butt into the conversation myself and a friend were having last week doesn't qualifies as restricting his freedom of speech (ignoring of course that Boards.ie isn't a public system and has no obligation to allow freedom of speech anyway).

All posters are free to start their own threads to discuss any issue that arises in the Christian Only threads.

The fact that some people seem to want rather to butt in to conversations between Christians when the Christians don't want them to speaks more to the mentality of the non-Christians than the Christians.

philologos

I really don't think it is discrimination, as most of the threads are open to atheist discussion, I personally would respect any other boundaries that would be set up by any other religious discussion forum, such as in the Islam section for example. I think it is important for believers to be able to ask eachother questions as well as the odd place for atheists to debate with Christians.

Sometimes this debate is appropriate, but when someone is looking for clarification on Scripture, or advice in prayer I don't think debate is necessarily appropriate in that context.

Zamboni

Boards.ie is a public forum and people can pretty much post where they want on any subject they are interested in.
Thats why I don't post in the various religion forums, I am simply not interested.

To put up a 'christians only' thread is childish imo.
For an analogy thats shows how pathetic it is think of a 'snowboarders only' thread in the winter sports forum. :rolleyes:

philologos

I don't see how it is childish to seek assistance or advice from other believers on personal matters. Could you elaborate?

Zombrex

Zamboni wrote: »

Boards.ie is a public forum and people can pretty much post where they want on any subject they are interested in.

Yeah, try that and see what happens :pac:

Boards.ie is a private publishing enterprise that has public access and as such everyone has to follow the rules. And all forums have charters and moderators. Christianity forum has a pretty liberal charter compared to some other forums where heated debate goes on.

Zamboni wrote: »

To put up a 'christians only' thread is childish imo.
For an analogy thats shows how pathetic it is think of a 'snowboarders only' thread in the winter sports forum. :rolleyes:

Which would keep away all the "Snowboarding sucks why do you waste your time with it it is stupid" responses, which I'm sure the people wishing to discuss something to do with snowboarding would appreciate

Rev Hellfire

Zamboni wrote: »

To put up a 'christians only' thread is childish imo.
For an analogy thats shows how pathetic it is think of a 'snowboarders only' thread in the winter sports forum. :rolleyes:

I'm with you, your well articulated and reasoned argument has won me over!

Lets start a thread on feedback to stop the admins here who are oppressing us with their artificial categories and topic based forums. Surely we should just have one thread, where anyone can post anything they want when they want.

Who's with me, I've got pitchforks and some torches, someone bring a lighter...

Zamboni

Wicknight wrote: »

Boards.ie is a private publishing enterprise that has public access and as such everyone has to follow the rules. And all forums have charters and moderators. Christianity forum has a pretty liberal charter compared to some other forums where heated debate goes on.

All that goes without saying. I was answering the OP question as to why christians post in the atheist forum. Because they are interested.

Wicknight wrote: »

Which would keep away all the "Snowboarding sucks why do you waste your time with it it is stupid" responses, which I'm sure the people wishing to discuss something to do with snowboarding would appreciate

Folks come into the atheist forum for advice, clarity on subjects, etc. We don't put up the same signs to shield people from the believers.

kiffer

Jakkass wrote: »

The reason we have Christian only threads is because we have doctrines that sometimes need clarification amongst believers ... ...

I have to agree with Jakkass on this.
The christian only threads are needed because when discussing the fine details of some issue, some randomers ramming their way in to the thread and shouting "it's all pointless God doesn't exist" really derails the discussion.

Imagine you where in The Pub trying to decide who would win in a fight between DangerMouse and Rita Malone (The female mouse from flushed away) and just when its getting to the meat of the discussion some jerk just sticks his head in and goes "wtf? what's the point?! they don't exist, you're all idiots!!!"
In the case of the "fictional character" vs "fictional charater" everyone knows they don't exist, that the out come is unimportant and it's still annoying...

ChocolateSauce

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

personally I think the Christians here are a greater influence on making people turn Atheist than any of us ever could. The reason you don't see any "Atheist only" threads is because we have nothing to fear from them. It is nothing to do with them being more cordial than Atheists, in fact most of them tend to be either arrogant, patronising, condescending or plain oblivious to the flaws in their arguments. No amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise.

As this is an open forum, I think the spectacle of a theist trying to defend their position will draw in individuals who might of been on the fence about their spirituality. So I say, the more the merrier.

I do agree with you, but we are also frequently arrogant, patronising and condescending. We're also quite sure we're right and they're wrong.

As far as I can tell, the only difference is we're utterly more awesome and right and smarterer.

JimiTime

There seems to be a bit of Paranoia afoot with 'some' of the atheist posters here.
'Who do those Christians think they are, talking about Christianity stuff without inviting me. I know what it is, they are afraid of my superior intellect showing that they are all deluded idiots, yeah I'll go with that.'

Then discrimination?!? LOL:D

I first thought that you guys had your tongue firmly in cheek, but it doesn't seem so. Anyway, I think I've spent enough time here now, the sun is going down, and them atheists will start to come and rip me apart with their superior intelligeance and rationale, Ahhhhhhhhh.

Oh Yeah, and to answer the OP. I post here for various reasons. If I think I can contribute with my opinion. Sometimes, if I feel I should correct a view someone may have. Sometimes to be educated myself, and sometimes there can be a bit of craic. Sometimes the things being discussed are more interesting here too. So depending on the context, the above would be some of the reasons I'd post here.

Goduznt Xzst

Jakkass wrote: »

The reason I would assume why there aren't any atheist only threads is because well atheism doesn't have a source text that is held as authoritative whereas Christians have the Bible. We don't have Christian only threads because we have anything to fear from you. Why would Christians fear atheists?

Perhaps "fear" was too strong of a word. But regardless, you don't want people in your thread detailing why this authoritive source could be wrong. The reason I see that there aren't any Atheist Only threads is that your opinions strengthen ours, I'd have to imagine the inverse is true of why there are Christian Only threads.

If in the clarification of doctrines you don't make them open to being proved false then you are really just engaging in biased discussion.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I do agree with you, but we are also frequently arrogant, patronising and condescending. We're also quite sure we're right and they're wrong.

That was my point. Going on character alone, there is no reason why Christians would not want Atheists in their discussions as we exhibit all of the same traits. There is nothing, distinguishably, better in the manner of Christians in comparison to Atheists. On the internet I don't believe religion or lack thereof dictates manner, I imagine anonymity has a much greater effect on an individuals personality.

Oh and for a case in point, see Jimi's post above, nice use of sarcastic patronising, condescension and arrogance

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Oh and for a case in point, see Jimi's post above, nice use of sarcastic patronising, condescension and arrogance

LOL. Well, its a cross (insert atheist equivalent) I bare.

ChocolateSauce

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

That was my point. Going on character alone, there is no reason why Christians would not want Atheists in their discussions as we exhibit all of the same traits. There is nothing, distinguishably, better in the manner of Christians in comparison to Atheists. On the internet I don't believe religion or lack thereof dictates manner, I imagine anonymity has a much greater effect on an individuals personality.

Oh and for a case in point, see Jimi's post above, nice use of sarcastic patronising, condescension and arrogance

Oh yeah, anonymity is the biggest factor.

So I guess one might say some atheists and some Christians are two sides of the same coin: an asshole coin.

Rev Hellfire

There's only one reason why threads are marked Christian only, it's to prevent them getting derailed. I personally see it less as a 'Christian' only rule, but rather a notification that atheists should avoid banging their particular drum in this particular conversation. Plus it gives wolfbane and kelly a chance to get stuck in.

Compared to many of the forums on boards.ie the Christian forum is very forgiving when it comes to people posting off-topic.

mickeydevine

Interesting. I thought at least one of ye would've said 'To spread the word of God' but obviously its just to noise up the natives. Tisk tisk, bad christians, that'll be ten rosaries and two our fathers for your sins. Carry on.:)

philologos

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Perhaps "fear" was too strong of a word. But regardless, you don't want people in your thread detailing why this authoritive source could be wrong. The reason I see that there aren't any Atheist Only threads is that your opinions strengthen ours, I'd have to imagine the inverse is true of why there are Christian Only threads.

Of course if people are looking for:

• Scriptural clarification / theological discussion
• Assistance in Christian life
• Finding a Christian denomination etc

it would be ideal that the thread doesn't get derailed as the OP isn't seeking for a debate but rather assistance and guidance.

There are plenty of threads on the Christianity forum discussing how we could be wrong.

Most threads I have had with atheists have helped me to think and to seek answers about my own faith, so I would like to argue the same about strengthening ones viewpoint from the other side also.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

If in the clarification of doctrines you don't make them open to being proved false then you are really just engaging in biased discussion.

Atheists are welcome to discuss these topics in a different thread, I really don't see what the issue is. People will want answers from a Christian POV of the Scriptures if they want a Christian explanation, that's why we have the Christian only threads. This is really just begrudging the right of the Christian community on Boards to help eachother out as we try to apply this to our lives and yes it is difficult at times.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

That was my point. Going on character alone, there is no reason why Christians would not want Atheists in their discussions as we exhibit all of the same traits. There is nothing, distinguishably, better in the manner of Christians in comparison to Atheists. On the internet I don't believe religion or lack thereof dictates manner, I imagine anonymity has a much greater effect on an individuals personality.

There are a few reasons that have already been dealt with some atheists on this thread already. Personally I don't think there would be a need for separation in some issues if atheists weren't as willing to run in and say "There's no God don't worry and live your life" to Christians who are genuinely wanting spiritual guidance.

Effectively it's almost like if a pastor was speaking during a sermon, and if atheists had come to church to shout him down. Whereas talking to said individual after his sermon, or as an aside, would be perfectly acceptable. See how context of discussion can change everything?

kiffer

I see the need for the christian only threads but sometimes I really want to post in them with in context... Not as a believer (of course) but as someone "suspending disbelief" if only for that thread ... But I feel this would be frowned upon.

Fanny Cradock

Some people need to familiarise themselves with the charter

1) The purpose of this board is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. It has the additional purpose of being a point on boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith.

PDN

kiffer wrote: »

I see the need for the christian only threads but sometimes I really want to post in them with in context... Not as a believer (of course) but as someone "suspending disbelief" if only for that thread ... But I feel this would be frowned upon.

Non-believers can actually post in the Christian only threads if they do so in the spirit of the OP. I think a good example of this was Wicknight's thread about the Flood. Wicknight and a few others asked genuine questions, or made points, that actually helped clarify what people were saying. Those posts were not edited or deleted and were allowed to stand.

Others, however, tried to pick an argument and take us down the usual rabbit trails. These were deleted because they would have turned the thread into yet another Christian -v- Atheist circus where no Christian would state their views because they would to busy trying to respond to jibes.

I think the Christianity forum is pretty loosely moderated. Try going onto the Soccer forum and saying stuff like, "Soccer is a stupid game for irrational and uneducated people. One day it will die out and everyone will play real sports like rugby instead." You would be banned in no time at all.

As a Christian I post in this forum for two main reasons. I enjoy a bit of good natured joshing with some of the regular posters. I also tend to wade in when posters make blanket statements about Christianity which I feel are inaccurate. At times that gets heated. If the mod (Dades) or S-mod (Asiaprod) ever told me I was hindering, rather than helping, discussion on the forum then I would cheerfully stroll back over to the Christianity forum without a backward glance.

ChocolateSauce

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Compared to many of the forums on boards.ie the Christian forum is very forgiving when it comes to people posting off-topic.

It wouldn't be very Christian if it wasn't now, would it?

Goduznt Xzst

Jakkass wrote: »

I would like to argue the same about strengthening ones viewpoint from the other side also.

Of course you would. I wouldn't expect anything less

Jakkass wrote: »

Atheists are welcome to discuss these topics in a different thread, I really don't see what the issue is.

Sure and under your scheme, Atheists would be welcome to ride on the bus, as long as they sit at the back :pac:

Jakkass wrote: »

Effectively it's almost like if a pastor was speaking during a sermon, and if atheists had come to church to shout him down. Whereas talking to said individual after his sermon, or as an aside, would be perfectly acceptable. See how context of discussion can change everything?

Effectively, it's nothing like that. I like the way you try to parallel an Atheist disagreeing with a Christian in a thread to an Atheist coming into a Church and shouting at the pastor, is this really how you see it or where you just using hyperbole for effect.

Dades

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Sure and under your scheme, Atheists would be welcome to ride on the bus, as long as they sit at the back :pac:

Pchaah. We have our own buses now.

To be honest, the atheism forum would be very, very boring without the Christians. And, the Christianity forum would be very, very boring with the atheists. We're two sides of the one coin.

midlandsmissus

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

personally I think the Christians here are a greater influence on making people turn Atheist than any of us ever could. The reason you don't see any "Atheist only" threads is because we have nothing to fear from them. It is nothing to do with them being more cordial than Atheists, in fact most of them tend to be either arrogant, patronising, condescending or plain oblivious to the flaws in their arguments. No amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise.

As this is an open forum, I think the spectacle of a theist trying to defend their position will draw in individuals who might of been on the fence about their spirituality. So I say, the more the merrier.

Sheesh.

I would hope not to be arrogant, patronising or condescending...must work on it harder.

My reason for coming in here is I find that there are some brilliant analytical minds in here. Just because I don't agree with them on one thing doesn't mean I can't enjoy a conversation with them. I suppose I have quite an interest in science aswell (you can do both) so I like looking at scientific discussions.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

yet another Christian -v- Atheist circus where no Christian would state their views because they would to busy trying to respond to jibes [...]

...or "questions" or "replies" as we refer to them ourselves

Still, I'm happy to see that you made it to the end of a post without once telling the world that atheists are trolls.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

...or "questions" or "replies" as we refer to them ourselves

Still, I'm happy to see that you made it to the end of a post without once telling the world that atheists are trolls.

Some atheists are trolls, as are some Christians.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

Some atheists are trolls, as are some Christians.

And some atheists have beards too and no doubt some christians enjoy Tabasco.

A quick poke through the 46 posts of yours that contain the word "troll" shows that you rarely, if ever, refer to a self-describing christian as a troll.

mickeydevine

I thought i'd have a quick goose over in christianity, see what all the fuss is about and holy free holies 14000 odd posts, gotta be some sort of record. Can someone give me the low down, what happened. Did god do it?. Also I misread Fanny C's post and thought it said Africa needs Cock. I was thinking, thats the last thing they need. Then i got scared and left.

Cathy666

mickeydevine wrote: »

I thought i'd have a quick goose over in christianity, see what all the fuss is about and holy free holies 14000 odd posts, gotta be some sort of record. Can someone give me the low down, what happened. Did god do it?. Also I misread Fanny C's post and thought it said Africa needs Cock. I was thinking, thats the last thing they need. Then i got scared and left.

Lol

I think it's (occasionally) interesting to see the input from Christians on Atheist topics. I have no problems with them posting here, except when they, and people of other religions, try to force their beliefs on us. It's just annoying then. I know I'm a new member here, I have been 'lurking' for a few months though. I only got around to registering yesterday.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

And some atheists have beards too and no doubt some christians enjoy Tabasco.

A quick poke through the 46 posts of yours that contain the word "troll" shows that you rarely, if ever, refer to a self-describing christian as a troll.

I'm a moderator in the Christianity forum. Most of the trolling in that forum is carried out by atheists, agnostics, or drunk posters (apart from notable exceptions such as Gareth37).

If I were to point out and challenge those Christians who troll in this forum (and there are a few of them) then I would be guilty of backseat modding. Dades is the mod of this forum and he doesn't need any advice or interference from an interloper like me.

CDfm

People who declare themselves as atheists have something to debate and have strong views.Why post in A & A if not to debate.

The Christian only rule is very fair. I can see how it would be very annoying to Christians to have atheists declaring their entire thread pointless and indeed useless.

I think atheists should be allowed to post in Christian only threads if they have something positive to add to the conversation. As PDN has said, Wicknights thread about The Flood is a perfect example of this.

And to be honest, the Christianity forum is one of the most liberally modded forums on the whole site (that's not to say it's badly modded, it isn't). Atheists have often gotten away with saying very disrespectful things in it, to have no punishment. Just go into the soccer forum and say that you think soccer is crap and see what happens.

Fanny Cradock

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

that's not to say it's badly modded, it isn't

You're darn tootin' it isn't!

*rests ban hammer of retribution on lap... until next time!*

CDfm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

You're darn tootin' it isn't!

*rests ban hammer of retribution on lap... until next time!*

Playing God again?;)

MrPudding

Jakkass wrote: »

Atheists are welcome to discuss these topics in a different thread, I really don't see what the issue is.

Are they though? I got a telling off from a christianity forum mod a few months ago for opening thread about a couple of point in a christian only thread.

MrP

Handsome Bob

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

personally I think the Christians here are a greater influence on making people turn Atheist than any of us ever could. The reason you don't see any "Atheist only" threads is because we have nothing to fear from them. It is nothing to do with them being more cordial than Atheists, in fact most of them tend to be either arrogant, patronising, condescending or plain oblivious to the flaws in their arguments. No amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise.

As this is an open forum, I think the spectacle of a theist trying to defend their position will draw in individuals who might of been on the fence about their spirituality. So I say, the more the merrier.

Anyone else see the irony? No offence GX, but I've observed many of your debates online. You aren't exactly devoid of all three things you accuse Christians of possessing.

CDfm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Anyone else see the irony? No offence GX, but I've observed many of your debates online. You aren't exactly devoid of all three things you accuse Christians of possessing.

There are some threads that debate stuff on belief thats of interest to christians only.Where atheist posting is inevitably going to be off topic - like discussing the All Ireland Football or the Cork GAA Senior Team on the Soccer form.

Atheist forums can desend in a why cant you see it my way - the atheist dragon and teapot in-jokes then start to fly.

Atheist Forums need believers but not vice versa.

CerebralCortex

CDfm wrote: »

There are some threads that debate stuff on belief thats of interest to christians only.Where atheist posting is inevitably going to be off topic - like discussing the All Ireland Football or the Cork GAA Senior Team on the Soccer form.

Atheist forums can desend in a why cant you see it my way - the atheist dragon and teapot in-jokes then start to fly.

Atheist Forums need believers but not vice versa.

WTF?

Yet again we are treated with the great wisdom of CDfm.

Dades

On The Origin Of Trolls...

There are genuine trolls such as Gareth37 and no doubt a few non-Christians that have "gone away", but it's mostly smart-arsery that goes on here. And because it comes from both sides and we're all supposed to have thick skins and no fear of a debate, it's usually let go.

CDfm wrote: »

Atheist Forums need believers but not vice versa.

You're half right. Otherwise we'd turn on each other. :eek:

CDfm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

WTF?

Yet again we are treated with the great wisdom of CDfm.

Yet again - but when you think of it there is some truth there.

I am not saying that atheists or agnostics are bad or immoral and that definitely wouldn't hold water on A & A as most posters are on the level. And agnostics live in the shadows hovering between being uncertain and not so sure.

By definition -if there were no believers there would be no debate.

You need Creationists more then you need ordinary Christians -some might say they validate you -but Im not that unkind.:)

CDfm

Dades wrote: »

You're half right. Otherwise we'd turn on each other. :eek:

Hi Dades - did you have a nice Christmas. Is it true that A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens is the Atheist version of a Stephen King book. CD:D