New website-what should i use?

MIN2511

Hello everybody,

Unemployed at the moment so i need to get my hand stuck into something.
I want to create a website, social network more or less(jeez, sounds like hard work now). I haven't used PHP before but would like inputs on what would be the best language for this bearing in mind that i am a newbie.

Thank you
N

nialo

there is no 'best' language. just what your comfortable with. asp.net or php would be fine. both will do the job. do you have any programming experience?

bullpost

If you plan on a lot of changing content, a CMS system such as Joomla might be a runner.

MIN2511

Oh i studied Computer Science in College(studied Java, html, SQL, Visual Basic.net). I am also learning c#

Joomla: never heard of it before... Googling as we speak.

I would be leaning towards php but i am open to other ideas


Joomla seems cool-PHP and MySQL and most important of all it is FREE!

bullpost

Joomla has a social networking module:

http://www.jomsocial.com/

pauldiv

You said you are leaning towards PHP so go with your hunch and you will never look back.

Most free CMS systems are coded in PHP - Joomla, Drupal, CMSMadesimple and hundreds of others.

They all have lots of plug-in modules for getting the functionality you need and you will be able to hook them together easily if you feel ok using PHP.

Good Luck.

compevo

I would say PHP is your best bet, it's open source, it is very quick, and is a very straight forward language with all the capabilities you could ever need.

Facebook uses PHP, so that should give you an idea about how powerful PHP is.

Best luck and wishes with the project.

MIN2511

Thanks guys, i asked several people about my idea and they all think it's been done before and the market is limited. Now i am back brainstorming as i really want to do something worthwhile.

Btw my initial idea is to create a social network aimed at single people... Now i know there are loads out there and facebook and bebo probably cater for such so there is no need, i don't know if i would pull the amount of traffic...
Now i am thinking of a content site..... Dunno what the content would be but it needs to be something people would use daily....

Placebo

php+mysql,
it seems like alot of work but if you sit down and draw out a proper plan, uml diagram, then pseudo code, then youll have it done in no time.

nobodythere

Have you any programming experience? You can do it with PHP if you like, you can use the PEAR modules (basically libraries that make common tasks easier - see here http://pear.php.net/).

Otherwise you can use a framework, which is basically software built on top of a language to make development easier. For PHP CakePHP is good, Ruby on Rails is full of hype but there are few examples (unless you get books) and the Ruby language can be quite a leap. Java has Grails (a Rails knockoff) and the more enterprise-oriented Struts2. There's also Drupal (confusing as ****) and Joomla (haven't used it)

Creamy Goodness

MIN2511 wrote: »

Thanks guys, i asked several people about my idea and they all think it's been done before and the market is limited. Now i am back brainstorming as i really want to do something worthwhile.

whilst this is true, the market is limited but that should deter you from doing the site. It may not be as profitable as the bebo's the facebook's etc. but completing something on this scale will strengthen your programming skills as well as look good on a CV.

as to what technologies to go with, i would go with my strongest and in terms of web dev. for me it's php+mysql. also having a look at the sites that out there like bebo/facebook/myspace/etc. and look at the technologies they use.

bebo - java servlets.
facebook - php.
myspace - coldfusion.

whilst all of them have their own merits, in my opinion php wins out for it's sheer simplicity in my view. also out of the three sites listed, facebook is the most user friendly to me.

good luck with the site whichever direction and whichever language you decide to go with :pac:

SAVE_ME.222

Be careful of joomla there's some serious security problems associated with it.

MIN2511

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Be careful of joomla there's some serious security problems associated with it.

Really? Like?

MIN2511

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

whilst this is true, the market is limited but that should deter you from doing the site. It may not be as profitable as the bebo's the facebook's etc. but completing something on this scale will strengthen your programming skills as well as look good on a CV.

as to what technologies to go with, i would go with my strongest and in terms of web dev. for me it's php+mysql. also having a look at the sites that out there like bebo/facebook/myspace/etc. and look at the technologies they use.

bebo - java servlets.
facebook - php.
myspace - coldfusion.

whilst all of them have their own merits, in my opinion php wins out for it's sheer simplicity in my view. also out of the three sites listed, facebook is the most user friendly to me.

good luck with the site whichever direction and whichever language you decide to go with :pac:

Thank you! Actually i have come up with another idea, always wanted to do this a while back and now am back on it...
New idea would focus on students, be a general site for academic information and social aspects of going to college in the different counties in Ireland. What to expect etc

I am still keen on using php and i don't know what the story is with Joomla. What's the general feel on it?

Civilian_Target

There are lots of possibilities in web space.

Sites I'd really like to see are:
- An online CV maker that's really customisable. Like coderscv.com, but more powerful. (It might be useful to have when you're job hunting too!)
- A CMS for orchestra management. Looks after uploads of music for all parts, as well as scheduling rehearsals, etc.

Personally, I'm working on automated soap tooling for PHP and it's wonderful. Great language, so much more prepared than Java.

MIN2511

Right guys i am trying to install php and i am having problems!

Am just going to go to bed and then look at things when i wake up. I downloaded Joomla_1.5.9 but i need to to download
1. php-too confusing!
2. MySQL-seems to be the only thing i have downloaded
3. Apache-keep getting file cannot be found!

arrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh

nobodythere

Get XAMPP for windows, it's php/mysql/apache in one easy package

Creamy Goodness

grasshopa wrote: »

Get XAMPP for windows, it's php/mysql/apache in one easy package

^^ this

there's also wamp server as well which is basically the same thing, but for some reason i like xampp better. it's a really marmite kind of conundrum you either hate one and love the other.

http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

*EDIT* updated to the to be platform independent :P

MIN2511

Thanks guys, i am onto it

Worth not sleeping.... Thinking up ideas, drawing my UML as well. Proud of myself so far

Thanks guys! Finished downloading that-if only i had posted it earlier! Would have saved me an hour or so...

Back to Joomla

Placebo

MIN2511 wrote: »

Right guys i am trying to install php and i am having problems!

Am just going to go to bed and then look at things when i wake up. I downloaded Joomla_1.5.9 but i need to to download
1. php-too confusing!
2. MySQL-seems to be the only thing i have downloaded
3. Apache-keep getting file cannot be found!

arrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhh

wait, how are you planning on making a complex website [social networking?]
if php is coming across to be too confusing? Also why are you downloading MySQL? why not just work remotely?


Anyway i wouldnt use joomla, i currently manage a site for work thats built with it, its so much hassel.

MIN2511

Placebo wrote: »

wait, how are you planning on making a complex website [social networking?]
if php is coming across to be too confusing? Also why are you downloading MySQL? why not just work remotely?


Anyway i wouldnt use joomla, i currently manage a site for work thats built with it, its so much hassel.

Hmmm.... You are the first person to say this... Right, i have downloaded Xammp(phd, apache, mysql) just installing joomla now.
What would you suggest?

When i meant confusing i meant downloading.... I don't know php at all but by God i am going to learn

Evil Phil

Yeah I have to say, joomla is a bit sucky alright.

You could look at Community Server Express which is free - haven't used it myself however.

MIN2511

Right... I am confused now....

Which do i go for? And why....

At a glance they both do the same thing

Evil Phil

If I were you I'd download them, have a look at how easy or difficult they both to manage and then you'll be able to make an informed opinion. Really you should have a go at setting up a basic version of what you need with both.
Here's a few things to consider:

• Ease of installation
• Ease of Administration
  • How easy is it to add a user
  • How easy is it to create a feature specific to you website needs
  • How easy is it to allow user's to register themselves
• Ability to customise and create you're own features.
• Leading on from the previous point - what skills are available. You're looking at php/mysql Vs Asp.Net/Ms Sql Server.

That list could go on and on and on (Ariston), but what's there will at least get you started.

MIN2511

Unfortuately i cannot afford to pay for Community Server Enterprise Edition and the express is quite limited.

Joomla on the other hand has problems with security....

Any suggestions on what to do?

MIN2511

Guys i am back again-i can't sleep at all...
I have done some more research and i have two new contenders and i want to know what ye think about them
1. dotnetnuke
2. Jaws
3. cmsmadesimple

Evil Phil

What exactly do you mean by 'social network'? I may have you all wrong.

MIN2511

My apologies maybe i wasn't clear enough.
The idea is to create a social networking and or cms for students in Ireland.

AARRRGH

I've used Joomla before - it sucks.

If I were you, I'd write my site from scratch. PHP is really easy to learn and use.

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

I've used Joomla before - it sucks.

If I were you, I'd write my site from scratch. PHP is really easy to learn and use.

Hello...

Yeah i know you love PHP

I would love to write it from scratch but it's a social network cms so i dunno.... As it is it's hard work
Stayed up the last 48hrs researching different sw to use i finally decided on Plone. Looks good, feels good, the features are good...

AARRRGH

Well, a site like that is mostly just database reads and writes, which is very straightforward in PHP, so the hardest part would be working out the site logic and design.

As someone who has gone down the CMS route before, you're going to find that they don't quite do what you want, and you're going to have to customise them anyway, i.e. learn PHP.

No harm investigating the different CMS options though, but don't get your hopes up!

MIN2511

Oh no, i would learn php...
I wouldn't want everything all done(no joy in that), and i understand that they wont do what i want thats why i would learn php.
Drawing my workflows, ERD's etc and what i expect to do... It's actually confusing but tbh i am enjoying it...

Placebo

yeah customising is gonna be horrid, also you do know moodle exists for students?

MIN2511

I know moodle, used it... Thats not what i want... This would be for all colleges etc, information on rents, average living expenses per county etc

Not so worried on the customising and i know i would be back here ranting but i hope to be fine...

Installing Plone as we speak

MIN2511

Guys, has anyone used Silverlight before?

Placebo

i wouldnt go near that, consider flex instead.

nearly

A complex, feature rich content management framework is going to present a steep learning curve. But the payoff is a major bonus.

You may *think* you'll be saving yourself trouble by trying to build a custom system... but can you guarantee security yourself? Joomla is worked on by hundreds (thousands?) of developers (maybe not the core of it) and they had security problems.

It would be an interesting exercise.. but wow, what an even steeper learning curve.

I use Drupal, which I prefer to Joomla. I love the community in it, I think the tool itself is amazing.

Out of the box, *shrug* Drupal looks like a blank sheet of paper. It's when you bring it to life with modules that you get some great functionality, and incredible levels of control.

It's also very secure, has excellent user management out-of-the-box. It's built in PHP too.

Can you imagine spending 1168 person years to develop a content management system? See here...

http://www.ohloh.net/p/drupal-contributions

Effort (est.) 1168 Person Years Avg. Salary $ year $ 64,260,707

rtmie

If you are comfortable with some light development you should investigate Django, a python based web development framework, documentation is excellent and python may be easier to pick up for you than php - if your background is more in OO languages. It has a data mapper that allows you to switch easily between database backends just by changing a line in config etc.

MIN2511

Hi,

I downloaded drupal and its more of a forum than a social networking site... I like the look and feel of facebook(i know it's php from scratch). Drupal forums are brilliant, someone on that forum suggested Plone.
I would like something with good support, i am a newbie and i am willing to learn if the materials are out there.

It's between Silverlight and Plone, need to decide by tomorrow. I am trying to purchase books on both(downloaded the Plone book)

MIN2511

rtmie wrote: »

If you are comfortable with some light development you should investigate Django, a python based web development framework, documentation is excellent and python may be easier to pick up for you than php - if your background is more in OO languages. It has a data mapper that allows you to switch easily between database backends just by changing a line in config etc.

Looking at this now


Thank you everyone for all your advice, it really means a lot to me. I have gotten enough advice to last me a life time-please keep them coming:D

I have looked at all of the below

• Drupal
• cmsmadesimple
• joomla
• Silverlight
• Plone
• Dolphin
• bitweaver

And maybe a few more, reading Django now

Django is python, i dunno how many people use python but Silverlight is .Net and i always wanted to learn c# and .Net is widely used.

pauldiv

All the above posts were great but it looks like OP must be feeling like the puck in one of those old arcade tennis games. You are losing focus batman but fear not coz many people have been where you are now.

You need to find an approach that works for you and stick to it.

If you swear right off not to use Microsoft, be seduced by their marketing, and promise to forget all about them then that decision will keep you on track and help you focus. That is what I did two years ago and I only work with PHP - a personal decision and one I dont regret. If other people like MS then thats their decision.

You said you are leaning towards PHP so you will benefit from millions of man hours already spent designing and building free PHP systems.

If you install a LAMP stack locally such as XAMP or WAMP, then you can download all the CMS systems you want and play around with them.

You have no choice but to learn to some coding if you want to build systems to your exact specs. It might take you a year or two to be competent because there are other things as well as coding that need to be considered:

Design, Graphics, CSS, Standards, Usability and so on can take a very long time to learn well. Give your self time and dont hurry but get your **** together regarding PHP and you will never look back.

Good Luck.

MIN2511

Guys i am back again....

I started learning how to create basic websites with Silverlight.... At this stage i may just use php from scratch....

I am trying not to lose focus of what i want to achieve, i bet these are hiccups...

pauldiv

MIN2511 wrote: »

I am trying not to lose focus of what i want to achieve, i bet these are hiccups...

They are just hiccups and you have chosen PHP for a good reason - you can't go wrong with it because it will let you build any type of website you want

Can I ask what you thought of Silverlight and why you decided against it?

MIN2511

Hello, Silverlight is good but not so good... It's all about flashlight and i struggled...
Another reason being, i know i will need support, no one i know has used Silverlight.
Someone suggested Drupal, i downloaded it again but forgot how i installed it... I have given up because bottom line is majority of the cms out there use php so i need to get back to basics.


Anyone recommend any books to buy? I might try and get one off the college library as i am too broke to afford one.

NeverSayDie

I think part of the problem here is that you're mixing up technologies and platforms - Silverlight isn't a CMS (Content Management System) like Drupal or Plone. It's a browser plugin-based system that lets you use .NET to develop rich web UIs - vector graphics, animation, databound skinnable controls, WPF-style decoupled UI spec/code, etc. It's fairly similar to Adobe's Flash in terms of what it's for.

If you want a CMS on the other hand, something like Drupal is what you need (there are lots of .NET equivalents if you want to stick with the ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET approach). You could also write your own from scratch, everybody seems to end up doing that at least once, hence the vast array of CMS projects out there.

Re books, haven't done much PHP work myself, but any of O'Reilly's books are usually a good bet.

Placebo

why did u even use silverlight?

MIN2511

I was chatting with a mate of mine who works in Microsoft and he thinks my idea is solid plus there is no market for it in Ireland.
He suggested Silverlight because he felt it will do well against facebook, and if this is ready in June i could approach MS with and ask for funding etc or more support

NeverSayDie

Yeah, Silverlight could certainly be useful for a social networking site, but more in terms of making it easy to do slick UI stuff than helping with the core "engine" of the site.

I don't know if you're familiar with the notion of 3-tier/n-tier architectures, but in those terms, Silverlight (and Flash and the likes) is largely only concerned with the presentation tier - they're UI technologies, albeit with strong integration with lower layers.

A CMS on the other hand will usually involve a framework that covers all 3 tiers to some extent. The actual web interface is only one aspect of it - storing, accessing and managing the data describing your content and its layout/relationships is also a tricky problem. That's more generic - in theory, a web-based CMS vs a desktop or headless one could look pretty similar when it comes to the backend code.

MIN2511

I am familiar with 3-tier/n tier architectures and i understand that Silverliht is largely presentation.

Aarrrghhh suggested i use php from scratch and i wasn't sure...
Now i wonder if i should use php or drupal.
You mentioned using drupal, do you have it on your pc now? I dunno where i went wrong but i need help installing it on my laptop..

NeverSayDie

Well, Drupal is written in PHP, so either way, you'd be using it PHP is a language, Drupal is a framework/platform. It's a bit like the difference between Ruby and Rails, or ASP.NET and C#.

If you're going the PHP route, I'd suggest starting with some basic PHP on its own without Drupal, in order to get used to the basics of the language and web development in general (which is somewhat different to other stuff you may have done - it's largely stateless for instance, and it's all client-server based, both of which sometimes throw folks who aren't used to those situations).

Re Drupal, never used it myself, so don't know much about the install, but it's a popular framework, should be lots of how-tos and forum posts out there for it. I'd recommend doing some basic "Hello World" type stuff with PHP first though, lots of tutorials out there for that.

Placebo

MIN2511 wrote: »

I was chatting with a mate of mine who works in Microsoft and he thinks my idea is solid plus there is no market for it in Ireland.
He suggested Silverlight because he felt it will do well against facebook, and if this is ready in June i could approach MS with and ask for funding etc or more support

Silverlight is MS attempt at Flex by adobe, which is far more superior and well documented at this stage.
-I dont see how a flash interface would do well against facebook at all !
-It will be slow/chunky/compatibility issues/Usability issues
-As well there will be more work required linking it in with a database using extra scripts to read/send XML, which im assuming silverlight uses [similar to flex]