Concrete Median cause problems driving at night

Poster King

Please let me know if this issue has been raised already. I did a quick search and found nothing.

Of late I've been using the N4 from Kinnegad to Mullingar. Much of this section of road has a concrete median. This is great for avoiding head on crashes alright, but it causes significant visibility problems when diving at night.

On a normal road without a central concrete barrier, when you dip your lights for an oncoming car, the dipped head lights of the oncoming car(s) will illuminate the road ahead of you.
With the new concrete medians, no light from the oncoming cars is able to cross over to light up your side of the road and hence it is pitch dark in front of where your own lights are dipped to. I have found myself either having to slow right down, or intermitently 'flash' my lights to make sure there is nothing on the road ahead of me.

If I don't dip my lights I get the oncoming cards flashing at me naturally. I drive a Land Cruiser so my headlights are higher off the ground than a regular car. SO maybe drivers of regular cars don't experience the problem to the same extent as they are able to keep their headlights up as the lower lights don't shine in the eys of the oncoming cards.

Has anyone else had this problem. I have found it to be a major problem. There are many new roads with these concrete medians so it must be a problem elsewhere.

A solution, which will be expensive, is to erect a fence or series of palettes (every 2 meters have a one meter tall and say, 40cm wide wand ) along the top of the concrete wall to stop head lamp rays crossing the median.

Danno

Clean your lights m8, if that fails, get them focussed.

GerardKeating

Poster King wrote: »

A solution, which will be expensive, is to erect a fence or series of palettes (every 2 meters have a one meter tall and say, 40cm wide wand ) along the top of the concrete wall to stop head lamp rays crossing the median.

A much cheaper solution would be "Cats Eyes" along the lane markings...

The concrete median on the Kinnegad-Athlone M6 has reflective strips on it, I assume for reasons like this.

bawn79

I normally drive on dipped head-lights on Motorways, I can see fine with them.
Is that correct?

Typewriter

Poster King wrote: »

I drive a Land Cruiser so my headlights are higher off the ground than a regular car. SO maybe drivers of regular cars don't experience the problem to the same extent as they are able to keep their headlights up as the lower lights don't shine in the eys of the oncoming cards.

Poor you. :rolleyes:

Poster King

bawn79 wrote: »

I normally drive on dipped head-lights on Motorways, I can see fine with them.
Is that correct?

I feel uneasy driving at 120kmph into the darkness, even if I do know which way the road turns with the help of cats eyes. You never know what might be laying on the road that's fallen off a lorry or car, what animal might run across or other hazard. I once nearly hit a large chunk of tyre that came off a truck. Hit one of those at 120kmph hour and you are toast. SO full head lights are imperative IMHO.

The dipped head lights raises another thing that really annoys me. Often when I come up behind someone on a single carrigeway road who is driving slowly and I want to overtake them, I find that they have their lights dipped and you can't see more than 100m ahead of them, so you can't even see if there is a bend in the road. The dipped headlight might be ok if you are driving at 60km per hour but not OK for the driver who wants to overtake safely. It is a dangerous situation, the only solution to which seems to be to pull out, then use full lights to see what's ahead, and then decide if it is OK to overtake.
( I realise this is not a 'infrastructure' issue - apologies)

nordydan

Poster King wrote: »

The dipped head lights raises another thing that really annoys me. Often when I come up behind someone on a single carrigeway road who is driving slowly and I want to overtake them, I find that they have their lights dipped and you can't see more than 100m ahead of them, so you can't even see if there is a bend in the road. The dipped headlight might be ok if you are driving at 60km per hour but not OK for the driver who wants to overtake safely. It is a dangerous situation, the only solution to which seems to be to pull out, then use full lights to see what's ahead, and then decide if it is OK to overtake.
( I realise this is not a 'infrastructure' issue - apologies)

Agreed, I have experienced this many times. Is it illegal to drive at night without the full beams on (if nothing is coming)?

Craft25

I agree.. the same issue on the N11 coming up the glen o' downs.. My general rule of thumb is if i can see their lights they can see mine, so i keep 'em low.. if i can only see their lightbeam but not the actual lights i go full beam.. (but i'm in a low car, so.. there you go)

i guess you just have to be a little more cautious at night, but i do agree some sort of light barrier would be handy, especially on particularly bendy sections

L1011

nordydan wrote: »

Agreed, I have experienced this many times. Is it illegal to drive at night without the full beams on (if nothing is coming)?

No. Why would it be?

My father never uses his beams, ever. I never use mine on motorways.

Wide median with trees in it (the old motorway median) blocked all the light falling on the road surface from oncoming vehicles too so I don't know what has changed?

Poster King

MYOB wrote: »

No. Why would it be?

My father never uses his beams, ever. I never use mine on motorways.

Wide median with trees in it (the old motorway median) blocked all the light falling on the road surface from oncoming vehicles too so I don't know what has changed?

I was afraid I had not explained the issue clearly. Your statement above helps make it clearer. With the traditional wide median with trees or hedge along the middle, you could keep your full headlights and it would not bother oncoming traffic at all because almost all beams from your lights are blocked by the trees/hedge so you can keep full headlight to illuminate road ahead. With newer concrete wall, using full lights dazzles the oncoming car and none of the beam from their dipped lights illuminates the road ahead.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/driving-at-night.html

Please see the guidelines on the above link. I've pasted the relavent text below:

"Use dipped headlights:

• just after the beginning (dusk) and before the end (dawn) of lightingup hours,
• as long as they are needed to let you see clearly,
• when stopped in traffic,
• when meeting other traffic,
• in built-up areas where there is good street lighting,
• on continuously lit roads outside built-up areas,
• when following behind another vehicle,
• where there is dense fog, falling snow or heavy rain,
• when daylight is fading, and
• generally to avoid inconveniencing other traffic.

Use main beam headlights in situations, places and times outside of those listed above. "

So "while driving on a motorway" is not listed.

This earlier excerpt is also important:

"Drive at a speed that allows you to stop within the distance covered by your lights. Assuming good driving conditions on an unlit road, the headlights of a typical car let you see for about 100 metres. Dipped lights will let you see for about 30 metres and a car travelling at 100km/h will cover this distance in approximately a second."

This section illustrates my main concern - that you are bsically speeing into the darkness.

egan007

Poster King wrote: »

I have found myself either having to slow right down, or intermitently 'flash' my lights to make sure there is nothing on the road ahead of me.

I think you have solved your problem here.

Pisser Dignam

Poster King wrote: »

Please let me know if this issue has been raised already. I did a quick search and found nothing.

Of late I've been using the N4 from Kinnegad to Mullingar. Much of this section of road has a concrete median. This is great for avoiding head on crashes alright, but it causes significant visibility problems when diving at night.

On a normal road without a central concrete barrier, when you dip your lights for an oncoming car, the dipped head lights of the oncoming car(s) will illuminate the road ahead of you.
With the new concrete medians, no light from the oncoming cars is able to cross over to light up your side of the road and hence it is pitch dark in front of where your own lights are dipped to. I have found myself either having to slow right down, or intermitently 'flash' my lights to make sure there is nothing on the road ahead of me.

If I don't dip my lights I get the oncoming cards flashing at me naturally. I drive a Land Cruiser so my headlights are higher off the ground than a regular car. SO maybe drivers of regular cars don't experience the problem to the same extent as they are able to keep their headlights up as the lower lights don't shine in the eys of the oncoming cards.

Has anyone else had this problem. I have found it to be a major problem. There are many new roads with these concrete medians so it must be a problem elsewhere.

A solution, which will be expensive, is to erect a fence or series of palettes (every 2 meters have a one meter tall and say, 40cm wide wand ) along the top of the concrete wall to stop head lamp rays crossing the median.

This thread should be retitled
"SUV Drivers cause problems driving at night"

You made your bed now drive in it.

Alun

I've read the OP's post over and over again, and I really don't get what he's on about at all, it makes no sense.

How on earth do the dipped beams of a car coming towards you on the other side of a dual carriageway illuminate your side of the road, when you're complaining at the same time that your own lights aren't illuminating the central barrier. Also why does seeing the central barrier even concern you when you're driving along an otherwise empty road, unless you're cruising along in the overtaking lane with no traffic in the driving lane of course?

Poster King

Pisser Dignam wrote: »

This thread should be retitled
"SUV Drivers cause problems driving at night"

You made your bed now drive in it.

Is SUV that American term for the vehicles that soccer mom's use to drive their kids to school? Does it include commercial 4 x 4 vans used for towing with off-road tyres? It has in recent year become something of a derogatory term, and I detect some cynicism by "Pisser Dignam" in his post.
I am trying to raise what I think is quite a serious issue.

I am sure the van drivers, bus drivers and lorry drivers have the same problem. When I drive in a VW golf, the lights are over a foot lower, and so are lower than the concrete wall and don't shine in the eyes of oncoming cars, especially if you drive in the outside lane nearer the wall.

Poster King

Alun wrote: »

I've read the OP's post over and over again, and I really don't get what he's on about at all, it makes no sense.

How on earth do the dipped beams of a car coming towards you on the other side of a dual carriageway illuminate your side of the road, when you're complaining at the same time that your own lights aren't illuminating the central barrier. Also why does seeing the central barrier even concern you when you're driving along an otherwise empty road, unless you're cruising along in the overtaking lane with no traffic in the driving lane of course?

I realise this is probably difficult to understnd unless you have experience the problem. Imagine dipping your headlights on a normal single carriageway road with no oncoming cars or cars ahead of you, while driving at 120kph. Pretty scary as you can't see anything, the road is totally dark up ahead. With the concrete barrier, it is almost the same because the concrete barrier block the light from the oncoming cars.

I'm not complaining about not being able to see what way the road bends, you can easily see that. It is he fact the you are driving at 120kph into the dark not knowing if there is an object lying on the road.

Maybe I'm just paranoid about hitting something on the road (which I'd probably just plough through anyway in my petrol guzzling SUV )

Poster King

Poster King wrote: »

I realise this is probably difficult to understnd unless you have experience the problem. Imagine dipping your headlights on a normal single carriageway road with no oncoming cars or cars ahead of you, while driving at 120kph. Pretty scary as you can't see anything, the road is totally dark up ahead. With the concrete barrier, it is almost the same because the concrete barrier block the light from the oncoming cars.

You would have exactly the same situation on a single carriageway road, your dipped lights & the glare from oncoming vehicle lights will make dark objects on the road invisible.
Small car drivers (the cars not the drivers:))can remain on full beams when oncoming vehicles are also small cars, without blinding each other.

This brings up one of the real hazards of these new motorways, the small car on full lights blinding the driver of a oncoming large vehicle while being shielded by the barrier from the large vehicles lights.

BluntGuy

I understand where the OP is coming from.

However, if reflectors are installed on the central median the problem is nullified completely. The Cullahill-Cashel project has reflectors on the central median and it's perfectly fine to drive at night.

BluntGuy

BluntGuy wrote: »

However, if reflectors are installed on the central median the problem is nullified completely. The Cullahill-Cashel project has reflectors on the central median and it's perfectly fine to drive at night.

So does the M6

BluntGuy

Deleted User wrote: »

So does the M6

Hmmm... the only narrow median M-way I ever have trouble with at night is the Cahir-Mitchelstown scheme. Not only does it have the aforementioned problem with lighting, but it is made worse by the fact the road bobbles up and down reducing your sightline and causing opposing lights to simply "appear" out of no-where. It's actually quite disorientating.

THAT scheme needs reflectors.

nordydan

MYOB wrote: »

No. Why would it be?

My father never uses his beams, ever. I never use mine on motorways.

Wide median with trees in it (the old motorway median) blocked all the light falling on the road surface from oncoming vehicles too so I don't know what has changed?

Sorry, I was referring to driving on single carriageway e.g. regional roads, where overtaking opportunities are eliminated by the fact that the slower moving car in front has its headlights dipped and hence the overtaking car cannot see the road ahead of him clearly

Carawaystick

All I can take from this thread is that the dipped beams of the op's vehicle are crap. either fix them or deal with them.

is the speed limit on the N4 from Kinnegad to Mulingar 120kmh?

you should only drive as fast that your stopping distance will remain within your lit up range any how.

KevR

Deleted User wrote: »

So does the M6

And the N18 Ennis Bypass. Makes a great job of it.

Stark

Carawaystick wrote: »

is the speed limit on the N4 from Kinnegad to Mulingar 120kmh?

Not yet as far as I know. There are plans to redesignate Kinnegad to McNead's bridge as the M4 once the second round of motorway orders go through.

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10193&lang=ENG&loc=2270

Head The Wall

3 options Poster king

1 - 120 KM/h is the limit not a target, just because you're allowed to do it doesn't make it right. If as you say you are driving beyond your ability slow down, it could be construed as dangerous driving if something did happen

2 - Get your eye's tested

3 - get your lights focused properly. I drive a truck and it's a lot higher than your jeep but that doesn't mean my lights shine any higher than any other vehicle. There are standards re beam angle that are checked in the NCT

JMSE

This thread highlights what I dislike about wide-angle discussion forums such as this. OP has posted a debatable opinion in the appropriate area yet at least 50% of the contributors to his thread are browsers with irrelevant agendas (eg SUV man), the rest Green Party bike freakos.

Last poster wrote... "I drive a truck and it's a lot higher than your jeep but that doesn't mean my lights shine any higher than any other vehicle" ...the blathering of a lorry driver with worms who's particular lights weren't mentioned.

A different poster criticized the OP for expecting that given the 120 limit, he might want to travel at that speed...on a newly engineered, most modern, state of the art road...or is that particular browsing critic just someone who happened by when there was nothing else happening.

Head The Wall

JMSE wrote: »

This thread highlights what I dislike about wide-angle discussion forums such as this. OP has posted a debatable opinion in the appropriate area yet at least 50% of the contributors to his thread are browsers with irrelevant agendas (eg SUV man), the rest Green Party bike freakos.

The reference to the SUV relates to the OP turning his headlights on even where there are cars coming towards him so he can see where he is going. The OP thinks his vehicle is to blame. its an "I don't mind blinding the oncoming drivers as long as I can see where I'm going" attitude.

JMSE wrote: »

Last poster wrote... "I drive a truck and it's a lot higher than your jeep but that doesn't mean my lights shine any higher than any other vehicle" ...the blathering of a lorry driver with worms who's particular lights weren't mentioned.

Idiot - I don't have worms and get your facts straight OP did mention trucks

Poster King wrote:

I am sure the van drivers, bus drivers and lorry drivers have the same problem. When I drive in a VW golf, the lights are over a foot lower, and so are lower than the concrete wall and don't shine in the eyes of oncoming cars, especially if you drive in the outside lane nearer the wall.

As I and others have stated the height of the lights on any vehicle have nothing to to with his visibility problems. It's to do with his lights, their focusing or his eyesight. Read the posts before you go posting crap

JMSE wrote: »

A different poster criticized the OP for expecting that given the 120 limit, he might want to travel at that speed...on a newly engineered, most modern, state of the art road...or is that particular browsing critic just someone who happened by when there was nothing else happening.

This whole post was obviously written after you came home from the pub as it makes absolutely no sense. Doesn't say much for your intelligence

Amtmann

JMSE wrote: »

This thread highlights what I dislike about wide-angle discussion forums such as this. OP has posted a debatable opinion in the appropriate area yet at least 50% of the contributors to his thread are browsers with irrelevant agendas (eg SUV man), the rest Green Party bike freakos.

Last poster wrote... "I drive a truck and it's a lot higher than your jeep but that doesn't mean my lights shine any higher than any other vehicle" ...the blathering of a lorry driver with worms who's particular lights weren't mentioned.

A different poster criticized the OP for expecting that given the 120 limit, he might want to travel at that speed...on a newly engineered, most modern, state of the art road...or is that particular browsing critic just someone who happened by when there was nothing else happening.

You're a bit of a browsing critic yourself.

Amtmann

In case anyone is interested, here is the machine that lays the concrete barrier:

I wonder how many of those machines there are in the country... One perhaps.


Going back to the original issue;

From what I can see the main issue is that if you are driving on a quiet section of new dual carriageway/Motorway and there are no vehicles in front (going the same direction) lighting up the road.
Your dipped lights will only illuminate a short section of road, leaving a large section completely unlit!

If you have the lights on full you will dazzle drivers of oncoming vehicles with a high seating position SUV's, Vans Lorries etc but not drivers of ordinary small cars who sightlines are below the barrier.

There are two possible solutions;
1 install lighting along all these roads, doesn't need to be as good as at junctions but sufficient to allow drivers to see obsticles.
2 fit light shields to the barrier to allow driver to use full lights without the risk of dazzling oncoming motorists.

Geogregor

Cool machine!!!

So it looks like they drill holes and install reinforcing in it and then machine runs over it. I wonder how strong such reinforcing is. Doesn't look very massive.

Geogregor

Geogregor wrote: »

Cool machine!!!

So it looks like they drill holes and install reinforcing in it and then machine runs over it. I wonder how strong such reinforcing is. Doesn't look very massive.

I think that it's designed to "give" a bit when hit with sufficient force, i.e slide sideways a small amount to prevent a large load just stopping and "leaping" over to the other carriageway. There are some very substantial linear reinforcing bars in it to prevent it sliding too far.