Littering fine

alannologo

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Alun

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Good. If the bottle bank is full, you take them back home with you and try some other time.

alannologo

Good??? you must work for the council, there should of been some leway

Serenity Now!

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Did whoever fined you dust the bottles for fingerprints or something?

cat&mouse

how did they no it was U.

alannologo

They took my car reg and i heard it has happened to alot of people its a scam

mikemac

Was it a council worker who took your reg?
Have they got you on CCTV or photographic evidence?

Maybe ask them to prove it and see what they've got.

The Raven.

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

I think that was a mean thing to do. I suppose they got your address from your car registration. If they have the time and energy to go to the trouble of doing that, they could have made the effort to have the bins emptied. It wasn't your fault that they were full. I would complain, if I were you, but I wouldn't put them in your regular bin, as you have to pay for that.

Serenity Now!

The Raven. wrote: »

I think that was a mean thing to do. I suppose they got your address from your car registration. If they have the time and energy to go to the trouble of doing that, they could have made the effort to have the bins emptied. It wasn't your fault that they were full. I would complain, if I were you, but I wouldn't put them in your regular bin, as you have to pay for that.

Sod that. Its littering full-stop and the original poster was apparently caught.
People don't get off speeding fines just because someone else on the road was also speeding.

alannologo

I called them up and explained the situation and they said "ok well use that as your defence in court" so i am just gonna pay it but i think its a disgrace and in now way a good advertisment for being eco friendly!!

c-note

isn't it a pitty that people in this situation cant issue the council with a fine for not having the bottle banks emptied?

its shameful alright and i have sympathy for the op,
but it shouldnt disuade you from continuing to recycle.
you're not going to hurt the council by chucking glass in the regular bin!
Thanks for the heads up

alannologo

yeah your right and the funny thing is it was my roommates birthday yesterday and after a party i have about 100 bottle in my kitchen that will need to be dropped down so im gonna check there is space 1st!

irish_bob

typical of the moronic attitude of local authoritys , come down hard on decents skins who make a genuine effort yet behave like a toothless tiger when it comes to the real litter bugs , why were the damm bottle banks overflowing anyhow , whoever fined you most likely needed a sacraficial lamb to show their boss they were doing something , the op was an easy target and public servants like the local authority love those , its revenue at the end of the day , doesnt matter where it comes from

silverharp

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Sod that. Its littering full-stop and the original poster was apparently caught.
People don't get off speeding fines just because someone else on the road was also speeding.

You have to admit though that pedantic law enforcement just creates badwill with the public , the speedies are happy to sit on their arses all day on the Stillorgan dual carriage way issuing fines on probably one of the safest stretches of road on the country yet I have never seen them near schools or where pedestrains are at risk.
And here we have a council that wont provide a service properly, christ if they have cameras and can see the bin is full, why isnt it emptied.
Chances are the stuff gets mixed together at a later date or is sent to China to be burnt. The Op is probably correct if he just dumps everything in the one bin.

friendface

I think this sort of behaviour by the council is disgraceful. Certainly not the type of thing I would expect someone to be fined for. If I went to the trouble of packing my car with any recyclables and driving to to the bottle bank, I think I would have done the same as the OP if the banks were full.

As you say, it is this sort of thing that creates bad feeling among the general public. When I hear this sort of thing, I feel that the councils are just trying anything to make money these days. Recently Galway county council went out of their way to clamp students doing exams in the city center (Rant for another day). :mad:

Anyway, it really grinds my gears!! If I were you OP, I would at least write a letter of complaint to the county council or send a letter to a local politician.

The Raven.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Sod that. Its littering full-stop and the original poster was apparently caught.
People don't get off speeding fines just because someone else on the road was also speeding.

That’s a pretty bad analogy. If someone is speeding on the roads, it doesn’t cause others to do likewise.

The Co. Council was at fault for not emptying the bins, which prevented everybody from putting in their glass items. The OP and others did what they thought was the next best thing under the circumstances, by leaving the bottles next to the bin. Yes, strictly speaking, normally this would be regarded as littering, but in this situation a fine of €160 is totally out of proportion. If the council are at fault, then I don’t think they have a right to issue any fine.

friendface wrote: »

Anyway, it really grinds my gears!! If I were you OP, I would at least write a letter of complaint to the county council or send a letter to a local politician.

I agree. I would do that. I would also try to find out if the council are entitled to fine people if they are at fault. I somehow doubt it.

Alun

alannologo wrote: »

Good??? you must work for the council, there should of been some leway

No I don't work for the council, what you did was littering, full stop, end of story. If you were walking along the street and the litter bin was full, would you feel justified in throwing your rubbish on the ground? Plus most of the recycling bin areas I've seen have prominent signs warning you of the fact that you're not allowed to litter, and in many cases warning you of the fact that there's CCTV there to catch the perpetrators. And contrary to many posters here, I feel that if we as a country did a bit less moaning about what are in essence quite reasonable anti-littering laws and just obeyed them, the place would be much less of a mess than it is.

Serenity Now!

The Raven. wrote: »

That’s a pretty bad analogy. If someone is speeding on the roads, it doesn’t cause others to do likewise

Seeing a pile of empty bottles beside a bottle bank shouldn't make it 'logical' to do the same either.

The Raven. wrote: »

The Co. Council was at fault for not emptying the bins, which prevented everybody from putting in their glass items. The OP and others did what they thought was the next best thing under the circumstances, by leaving the bottles next to the bin. Yes, strictly speaking, normally this would be regarded as littering, but in this situation a fine of €160 is totally out of proportion. If the council are at fault, then I don’t think they have a right to issue any fine

Littering is littering. Seeking another bottle bank instead of 'out of sight, out of mind' would have also been applicable here.

oscarBravo

If I go to the nearest bottle bank and find it full, I continue on to another one. If I can't find one that isn't full, I'll bring the bottles home and try again later.

There's no excuse for littering, ever.

Benedict XVI

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Good enough for you.

I hate the site of bottles just left at the side of the recycle bin.

If we were doing your bit you would have returned another time or gone to a different bottle bank.

friendface

Alun wrote: »

No I don't work for the council, what you did was littering, full stop, end of story. If you were walking along the street and the litter bin was full, would you feel justified in throwing your rubbish on the ground? Plus most of the recycling bin areas I've seen have prominent signs warning you of the fact that you're not allowed to litter, and in many cases warning you of the fact that there's CCTV there to catch the perpetrators. And contrary to many posters here, I feel that if we as a country did a bit less moaning about what are in essence quite reasonable anti-littering laws and just obeyed them, the place would be much less of a mess than it is.

It isn't really the same thing though. Throwing your rubbish on the ground when the litter bin is full wouldn't compare to leaving you recyclables next to a bottle bank, provided they were carefully packaged and left so they wouldn't be blown around. I do believe that some of the fines imposed by the council are simply extortion. I would say for a first offense, a warning would suffice. Slapping the OP with a €160 fine is a bit OTT.

It wouldn't have been necessary for the OP to leave his bottles there had the council emptied the bottle banks regularly and not allowed them to reach an overflowing level. I think it might have something to do with recycling costs going up recently. Wasn't there a case a few weeks ago where one of the bin companies stopped picking up recycling bins because they couldn't afford to recycle them. I vaguely remember hearing on the radio that a lot of the recyclables were just being exported and incinerated instead.

If the bottle banks are not being emptied regularly then I think a complaint should be made to the council. Why encourage people to recycle when the recycling service available is appalling. Some posters suggested that the OP go find another recycling center. This isn't an option in most rural areas where there is just one recycling center for miles.

oscarBravo

friendface wrote: »

It wouldn't have been necessary for the OP to leave his bottles there had the council emptied the bottle banks regularly and not allowed them to reach an overflowing level.

It wasn't necessary for the OP to leave them there. He had the choice to bring them home, but chose to leave them there illegally.

If the bottle banks are not being emptied regularly then I think a complaint should be made to the council.

Sure. 100% agree. But it still doesn't excuse littering.

Some posters suggested that the OP go find another recycling center. This isn't an option in most rural areas where there is just one recycling center for miles.

So bring them home and try again another time.

Sleipnir

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Yeah, that's illegal dumping alright. I'm amazed at the number of people who go "oh well someone else has done it so I can too!!!"

Also, these thing are emptied by a large grabber on a truck. Can you imagine being the driver who pulls up and sees hundreds of black sacks surrounding the bottle banks?
You think he should just roll up his sleeves, get out and clean up after you? He should go through all the smelly, wet, rotten black sacks and sodden cardboard boxes? For you?

alannologo wrote: »

im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

And...you think the council will
a.) Find out about this
b.) be dissappointed or something?

Plus if they hear clinking bottles, they won't empty your bin.

The Raven.

I would have brought the bottles home myself rather than leave them there. The point I was making was that I could understand how someone might assume that the council would do their bit, by emptying the bins, as they are supposed to, or else deal with the consequences by removing the bottles left in bags beside them, sooner rather than later when the situation gets out of hand.

I still think the fines are wrong in this situation. Yes, ‘litter is litter’, but I don’t see the council fining young litterlouts, who party outdoors day and night, leaving local residents to clean up the filth they leave after them. The overflowing bottle banks are an easier option for them.

Serenity Now!

friendface wrote: »

It wouldn't have been necessary for the OP to leave his bottles there had the council emptied the bottle banks regularly and not allowed them to reach an overflowing level

Lets just say that you were eating some hot food or a roll and its wrapped in foil and/or paper. You finish eating it and go to dump it in a garbage bin. However the garbage bin is stuffed from the night before.
What do you do with the trash you have in your hand? Do you leave it on the ground beside the bin
OR
do you take it with you to dump in another bin elsewhere?

Mr. Presentable

alannologo wrote: »

from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

Yeah, that'll show them!

OP, you were wrong and you were caught and punished. I really wish more were. My local bottle bank has boxes and bags of bottles left beside it even if it's not full. It also has empty boxes left around it when people have deposited their bottles.

It is harsh on you, but putting bottles in the bottle bank means just that.

Guy:Incognito

alannologo wrote: »

I recently brought 2 big bags of bottles down to my local bottle bank thinking I was doing my bit and when I arrived the bottle bank was full and loads off bottles were left to the side so I thought right I will leave mine here too and they will be picked up when the bin is being emptied, but I was wrong I then got home about 3 days later and there was a fine of €160 for littering which I think is way out of order and from now on im gonna put my bottles in my regular bin.

When your wheely bin is full do you just sling any more rubbish on the ground beside it?



QUOTE=irish_bob;58750832]typical of the moronic attitude of local authoritys , come down hard on decents skins who make a genuine effort yet behave like a toothless tiger when it comes to the real litter bugs , why were the damm bottle banks overflowing anyhow , whoever fined you most likely needed a sacraficial lamb to show their boss they were doing something , the op was an easy target and public servants like the local authority love those , its revenue at the end of the day , doesnt matter where it comes from[/QUOTE]

Whos going to pick the bottles up and put them in the empty bottle bank? The guy is paid to turn up, hook the bottle bank up to the arm on the truck, empty it and put it back. Not walk around picking up disgarded bottles around the area.

The Raven.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Lets just say that you were eating some hot food or a roll and its wrapped in foil and/or paper. You finish eating it and go to dump it in a garbage bin. However the garbage bin is stuffed from the night before.
What do you do with the trash you have in your hand? Do you leave it on the ground beside the bin
OR
do you take it with you to dump in another bin elsewhere?

Another bad analogy :rolleyes:!! There are usually lots of garbage bins around to cater for foil or paper, plus it is easier to take it home and put it in one’s regular bin, without fear of it being refused by the bin men. Of course it shouldn’t be left on the ground to blow all over the place. Nobody is suggesting that here.

Serenity Now!

The Raven. wrote: »

Another bad analogy :rolleyes:!! There are usually lots of garbage bins around to cater for foil or paper, plus it is easier to take it home and put it in one’s regular bin, without fear of it being refused by the bin men. Of course it shouldn’t be left on the ground to blow all over the place. Nobody is suggesting that here.

What a limp excuse lol
Its garbage. Regardless of it bloody well being waste bottles, paper or a crap-filled diaper. If no room in the recepticle, don't leave it on the ground.

Serenity Now!

Stekelly wrote: »

When your wheely bin is full do you just sling any more rubbish on the ground beside it?

Unfortunately a lot of people do just that. There should be a fine for your wheelie bins not being closed shut. With the penalty being made to look after and feed the rats that you attract when doing so.

tallus

Got caught out with one of those fines myself, there's nothing you can do about it.
It has to be paid, simple as that.
No point in complaining to the staff because they couldn't give a monkeys what the public think. I got the "ok see you in court so" answer.
I think the size of the fine is disproportionate but there was nothing I could do but piss and moan about it. End of story.
A hard lesson learned.

lostexpectation

ask em how much it costs to catch your reg

friendface

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Lets just say that you were eating some hot food or a roll and its wrapped in foil and/or paper. You finish eating it and go to dump it in a garbage bin. However the garbage bin is stuffed from the night before.
What do you do with the trash you have in your hand? Do you leave it on the ground beside the bin
OR
do you take it with you to dump in another bin elsewhere?

Well I wouldn't consider that situation to equate to the situation described by the OP. It is far easier to carrier a wrapper or some paper to another rubbish bin but when you have a car load of glass bottles or whatever, you may not have the option of finding another recycling center. Anyway, I didn't really want to get into an argument about this. I don't think the OP was being malicious in leaving his recyclables to be collected.

My main point was that the punishment does seem harsh in comparison to the 'crime'.

I would advise the OP to take a picture of the recycling site when they get a chance. Are there signs warning against leaving your recyclables? Perhaps check when you visit the site if the bottle banks have been emptied or if they are still overflowing. You could mention it in an appeal if they are not emptying them on a regular basis.

I would just like to point out that I am completely against littering but it sickens me to see charges like this being imposed on the public.

If there are signs warning against leaving boxes beside the bottle banks then I guess there isn't much grounds for an appeal.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm amazed that anybody is surprised by fines issuing for leaving (dumping) items at a bottle bank. This has been going on for years. And rightly so. If a bin is full you go to another bin or take the material home with you.
As for calling it a scam - there is not intention to defraud anybody just enforce the law.
If a bin's full don't leave litter (bottles, cans, cardboard, it doen't matter what) lying on the ground!
Good for the local authority!

nesf

Is it ok to drop your rubbish beside a normal bin that's completely full? If you can't see how doing this is littering then I give up to be honest. Just because it's not convenient for you to hold onto your rubbish until you get to an empty bin doesn't mean that it's suddenly ok to just drop it on the ground!

Hagar

How long was the bottle bank full?
Is there an oweness on the Council to provide a usable recycling point?
If the Council are failing in their duty to do so surely it is they who are at fault not the concerned members of the public who turn up with bottles but find no recepticle available?
There is a recycling area at the bottom of my road and it is emptied daily.
If it wasn't, phones would be lifted and the mayor's ears would be reddened by outraged tax-payers.
Why can't the local councils in Ireland do simple things?
The councillors in Ireland should get a good kick up the arse.

OhNoYouDidn't

nesf wrote: »

Is it ok to drop your rubbish beside a normal bin that's completely full? If you can't see how doing this is littering then I give up to be honest. Just because it's not convenient for you to hold onto your rubbish until you get to an empty bin doesn't mean that it's suddenly ok to just drop it on the ground!

Come on, the OP made an effort to recycle and left bottles beside a full bin.

I think its mealy mouthed in the extreme of the authorities to prosecute here. May be within the letter, but certainly not the spirit of the law.

nesf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Come on, the OP made an effort to recycle and left bottles beside a full bin.

I think its mealy mouthed in the extreme of the authorities to prosecute here. May be within the letter, but certainly not the spirit of the law.

I agree that it is pedantic in the extreme but it is still legally correct. I wonder how bad the problem of people just dumping stuff at the site had gotten before they decided to do the camera thing. Maybe people were truly taking the piss before?

Littering it is, but it's similar to someone going 2mph above the speed limit, it is speeding so it'd be correct for a Garda to call someone up on it but it'd be pedantic in the extreme. Very harsh but ultimately not in any way incorrect.

mickoneill30

While it was littering the council are showing an ingenious solution to their problem.

Problem:
Our bins are overflowing and people are leaving bags beside them. Obviously we're not meeting demand.

Solution1
Increase the frequency of bin collection.

Solution2
Put an extra bin there.

Solution3
Lets put up security cameras and pay for someone to monitor those. We'll make a few quid there.

Which council was it by the way. How about getting on to them or your politicians to try and get them to get the finger out for collecting the full bins. You're stuck with the fine but at least maybe next time you go there they'll have a bin with capacity for the area it serves.

Mr. Presentable

mickoneill30 wrote: »

While it was littering the council are showing an ingenious solution to their problem.

Problem:
Our bins are overflowing and people are leaving bags beside them. Obviously we're not meeting demand.

Solution1
Increase the frequency of bin collection.

Solution2
Put an extra bin there.

Solution3
Lets put up security cameras and pay for someone to monitor those. We'll make a few quid there.

Which council was it by the way. How about getting on to them or your politicians to try and get them to get the finger out for collecting the full bins. You're stuck with the fine but at least maybe next time you go there they'll have a bin with capacity for the area it serves.

OK. But in the meantime, no littering or illegal dumping, thank you.

DublinWriter

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Come on, the OP made an effort to recycle and left bottles beside a full bin.

I think 'effort' is the operative word there.

Just after Xmas last year the bottle banks at the Howth carpark were an absolute tip. Cardboard boxes and plastic bags of bottles everywhere, breaking and spilling out onto the carpark. I took a pic, but I can't find it ATM.

Again, it's the 'ah-shure-itildo' attitude of the Irish.

...and let me save you the bother of the 'but I drove all the way to the bottle-bank' argument. When go to the bottle bank, I do it en-route to somewhere else, if it's full, then no biggie, I keep the bottles in the car 'till next time.

dodgyme

The OP dumped beside the bottle bank. Despite the protests of innocence, the OP decided when it was full to just dump his bottles which someone was going to have to deal with. He got a fine and good is all I can say.

However the council might be better spending its money ensuring the banks are not full then catching people who arrive to find the thing full.

OhNoYouDidn't

dodgyme wrote: »

The OP dumped beside the bottle bank. Despite the protests of innocence, the OP decided when it was full to just dump his bottles which someone was going to have to deal with. He got a fine and good is all I can say.

However the council might be better spending its money ensuring the banks are not full then catching people who arrive to find the thing full.

someone was gound to have to deal with the bottles if there was space in the bins too......

dumping at the dump? mobilise the army! :mad:

OhNoYouDidn't

DublinWriter wrote: »

Again, it's the 'ah-shure-itildo' attitude of the Irish.

but not attitude of the council who put resources into catching people leaving bottles at but not in a bin over providing the service properly.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A lot of complaints here about the council. I think Repak have a responibilty for the maintenance of most bring centres. The council is responible for ensuring people do not litter and that those that do are propery fined.

dodgyme

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

dumping at the dump? mobilise the army! :mad:

Its not a dump. I think this is the core of the problem. Its a bottle bank, and when its full you have to find another one or wait until it is not full.

RDM_83

How does Repack operate, I presume they get a hefty subsidy from the council to operate these sites, wondering because at my local bottle bank there is no place to put aluminium can which IMO is crazy considering scrap aluminium is something you can _sell_ normally so doesn't make any sense not having place for people to give it too you for free

Grade LTL TL Units Funds
Old Mixed Aluminium 254.14 338.86 MT EURO

LTL means less than truck weight

messrs

Last summer I was going on my hols and the morn I was leaving I left a green back full of recycling out side my front door, and when I got back from my hols, I had a letter from Dublin city council with a fine for littering!! Seemingly what happened was when the bin men came to take my bag, it was so heavy and split the bag,(it was full of magazines ect) and everything fell out but they just left it there and didn’t pick it up, so there was a tablet box in there with my name and add on it, so I got fined for it, i wasn’t even in the country and didn’t know anything about it!

gnxx

The availability of recycling services is always used as a counter-balance when bin charges are increased. We are told "bin charges are going up but we are providing more recycling facilities".

Given the amount of taxes and bin charges used to encourage recycling etc, it is appalling that the council can not ensure these are run efficiently.

Finally, I'd make a wild guess that the council deployed somebody to this overflowing collection point to take registration numbers. Isn't this an interesting use of council resources?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gnxx wrote: »

...it is appalling that the council can not ensure these are run efficiently.

Finally, I'd make a wild guess that the council deployed somebody to this overflowing collection point to take registration numbers. Isn't this an interesting use of council resources?

Where have you been for the past 10 year? The councils do not waste resources deploying someone to take reg numbers. A cheap CCTV is installed at trouble spots and this had been the case for years now.

Also, it is Repak's resonsibility not the local authority! The council don't pay Repak to provide the service.:rolleyes:

RichMc70

My experience is very similar to the OP and I am also not someone who litters deliberately.

Arrived at my local Bottle Bank to find them full. Around the area of the banks where bottles and broken glass strewn everywhere. I placed my bottles beside the bank in a cardboard box, which I believed was more safer.

Four weeks later I received a fine through the post from Galway CC. When I queried the fine, they emailed me still photo shots of me placing the box beside the banks. I then queried what should I have done, seeing as the banks were full. The girl I spoke to explained that I was fined for leaving the cardboard box and not the bottles. So had I just fcuked the bottles everywhere like other recyclers, then I would have been ok. Anyway I paid my fine and left it as a lesson learnt.

Five weeks later I received another fine notice for supposedly another separate litter incident. Again I contacted the council and they sent me still photo shots that they had taken with their cctv. The photo shots looked familar so when I checked the images from the previous incident, I found that they were in fact the same photos. All they had done was change the file name on the jpeg. This time I asked them for a copy of the actual cctv footage. The moving footage was from the first incident and had the date/time shown on it.

I told them that unless they could provide supporting evidence of a separate incident, then they could go to fcuk. That was nearly two months ago and since then they have not provided any further evidence however they have still not cancelled the Fine Notice either.

Is this a new ploy by county councils in raising their depleted revenue's ? :mad: