I've made the tunes - now what do I do!?

fabbydabby

HI All,
I am newish to music production. I have produced a couple of funky house tunes with my mate and havent got the faintest idea how to go about trying to get some recognition... maybe try and get something released? Or something?

As far as I can see, we have the hard bit done - producing a couple of tunes of reasonable quality that we are both happy with.... but what next?

I presume the first step is a myspace, but what then? Do we put it on beatport? Or what?

I would really appreciate any suggestions you have for me as to twhat to do next.
Cheers!

*Edit: Maybe this should be in the DJ forum??

DamagedTrax

get in touch with labels that are similiar style. email them telliing them a little about you and what you're about and ask if they're accepting demo submission.

old gregg

crikey I'd reckon getting the music together is the easy bit. a myspace page and a few small festival appearances would be a decent way to build a profile over the next few months. It's between now and March/April that you'd need to start approaching summer festival organisers such as the Life fest/DEAF/European mainland/UK. That's my experience anyway

PaulBrewer

Myspace is a good start -



What are you hoping to get 'recognised' for ? By whom?

May we have a listen?

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

get in touch with labels that are similiar style. email them telliing them a little about you and what you're about and ask if they're accepting demo submission.

Does that work on the Dancey scene? Proper waste of time in general.

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Does that work on the Dancey scene? Proper waste of time in general.

yup thats how it works. but thats cause we're generally nice people

seannash

old gregg wrote: »

crikey I'd reckon getting the music together is the easy bit. a myspace page and a few small festival appearances would be a decent way to build a profile over the next few months. It's between now and March/April that you'd need to start approaching summer festival organisers such as the Life fest/DEAF/European mainland/UK. That's my experience anyway

gotta disagree with that,you wont get festival appearances unless you already have releases out or already have a big underground following.do what damaged trax originally said,look up labels that release a similar style of music to yours and google them for there website,theyll have a link for submissions.sent off your track(320 version) and sit back an wait for the offers:pac:
thats it really,if the songs are good theyll get picked up.its once case where who you know isnt really necessary,its all about the track and how good it is

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

yup thats how it works. but thats cause we're generally nice people

Jeez, with time on yer hands too!

dav nagle

fabbydabby wrote: »

HI All,
I am newish to music production. I have produced a couple of funky house tunes with my mate and havent got the faintest idea how to go about trying to get some recognition... maybe try and get something released? Or something?

As far as I can see, we have the hard bit done - producing a couple of tunes of reasonable quality that we are both happy with.... but what next?

I presume the first step is a myspace, but what then? Do we put it on beatport? Or what?

I would really appreciate any suggestions you have for me as to twhat to do next.
Cheers!

*Edit: Maybe this should be in the DJ forum??

Get your tracks mastered before you put them up on beatport or itunes or tunecore!!!

seannash

dav nagle wrote: »

Get your tracks mastered before you put them up on beatport or itunes or tunecore!!!

the label who signs them will either take care of that or recommend someone for you.beatport only lets people release tracks on there label and are very strict about new labels who want to sell on there site.

Neurojazz

Beatport is only 1 fo 300+ digital portals - they are getting picky as has been pointed out, but once your'e selling they will start accepting submissions.

Once they accept your products then it's an open door and you can submit anything your after that initial hurdle.

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

Beatport is only 1 fo 300+ digital portals - they are getting picky as has been pointed out, but once your'e selling they will start accepting submissions.

Once they accept your products then it's an open door and you can submit anything your after that initial hurdle.

yeah thats true but for an artist who doesnt want to start a label(i presume most wouldnt)its best to contact a label who sell on beatport as most djs get there tracks from there.also if there selling on beatport its more than likely they will be selling on most of the 300+ other sites

seannash

btw any links to the tracks

judas101

seannash wrote: »

btw any links to the tracks

+1 giz a listen.

everyone thinks their own tracks are **** hot so throw them up somewhere and at least get some feedback.

fabbydabby

Hi Everyone.

*Really* appreciate everyone's input, opinions and advise. I have set up a myspace and am in the process of mixing the tune down and hope to upload it by the end of the week.

(there's another 2 in the pipeline as well)

I hope to hear your constructive critisism when I do.

Thanks again!

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Jeez, with time on yer hands too!

oddly enough, in dance music, the main bulk of the workload for labels (or at least a lot of it) is going through music submissions.
Even stranger, many labels only release the music they want to release.

I know, crazy.

fabbydabby

I can understand them wanting to build up a style associated with them though.

What I DON'T understand is record shops which refuse to sell certain styles. Why on earth would you elect not to purvey hard house or techno or whatever, just because you don't like it personally? That's why so many of them close down I reckon.

So OK, lets just say that we are ridiculously talented producers and have record labels beating the door down (ha ha ha yeah right) to sign our tune what happens then? They get a cut I presume? Do we see which offer is best? Or take the first?

Excuse my ignorance, I don't want to tread on anyone's toes but at the same time I don't want to get bent over my piano and sodomised black and blue..

PaulBrewer

fabbydabby wrote: »

I They get a cut I presume?

Oh dear .....

No you get a cut, maybe, after costs!

PaulBrewer

http://www.tomrobinson.com/writing/times/index.htm

Neurojazz

Most labels initially offer 2 routes:

No advance, they recoup advertising cost and you get 50% or the net sales through portals

or

500e advance once your released and they still recoup costs and take 50% of the sales.

A word of warning though - always get a lawyer (a music industry one) to read your contract - why?, well most labels will take the lion share of your 'income stream' that you didn't even know you were due... publishing is a big one and most companies will throw a contract at you getting rights to collect all this money for you - you might think it's great that someones doing all that leg work for you - when it's not too hard once you get educated.

He's one example i heard of recently to paint a picture, a guy picks up artists to exploit their tracks for tv/radio - he doesn't just pick up the tracks, he picks up the whole artists catalogue and any future tracks they make - (that sounds ok yeah???) - well the guy gets 'exclusivity' on that music - meaning that if he doesn't do a good job that your music is tied to one person and you can't try it with another publisher.

The keywords exclusive and non-exclusive are the ones to watch out for - if someone wants exclusivity then make sure your getting a good deal.

This rabbit hole is so deep.... tip of the iceberg... basically if you want to sleep at night, get a lawyer - if you don't, then you will be burned!

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

http://www.tomrobinson.com/writing/times/index.htm

Nice article, I believe that the record industry will come up with an ingenious reason to actually buy/purchase a legit copy of an album. If they can come up with something that you just couldn't get from downloading a song illegally, something so cool that you just had to have the album.

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

The keywords exclusive and non-exclusive are the ones to watch out for -

'Pricks' is another ...

star.chaser

type digital distribution into google. check out a few of the companies listed that specialise in getting music onto music sites

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

No advance, they recoup advertising cost and you get 50% or the net sales through portals

What are Advertising costs likely to be?

Payment after how long?

So if a track is 99c that's 81.4 less vat so that's 40.85 cents per sale?

And that would be taxable income, yes?

Neurojazz

Depending on advertising - can range from 150e for a budget release that gets sent out to radio stations or 500e for a big radio station release with press/dj and feedback tracking (so you can see articles, press releases and where they were posted)

That's the budget end, then you creep up the scale to a better quality focused agency that charges anyting from 1k upwards for a targetted market - as some people will know here... the sky is the limit for larger releases - companies in london would happily spend 100k on making you look great even if your music is pap.

BUT, there are always options - you might get lucky (like i did once) and got a track played by a dj on radio 1 - the rest was history and i still sell that same track today - that cost nothing to do (bar posting them a record - so ooo 2-3quid?)

Then, well - myspace... ok, it's a platform - but once you get going get your own site and put some money into talking to a lot of people about what does and doesn't work - one guy on boards got a nice flash site made and then found out after that flash is a pain with google searches (something you'll be wanting to know about eventually) - so you have to tread carefully.

If your doing dance music, labels and the DJ using their material are your target, but if you spam them with crap mp3 then your on their ignore list - so you need to present yourself well or lose the chance...

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

Depending on advertising - can range from 150e for a budget release that gets sent out to radio stations or 500e for a big radio station release with press/dj and feedback tracking (so you can see articles, press releases and where they were posted)

That's the budget end, then you creep up the scale to a better quality focused agency that charges anyting from 1k upwards for a targetted market - as some people will know here... the sky is the limit for larger releases - companies in london would happily spend 100k on making you look great even if your music is pap.

BUT, there are always options - you might get lucky (like i did once) and got a track played by a dj on radio 1 - the rest was history and i still sell that same track today - that cost nothing to do (bar posting them a record - so ooo 2-3quid?)

Then, well - myspace... ok, it's a platform - but once you get going get your own site and put some money into talking to a lot of people about what does and doesn't work - one guy on boards got a nice flash site made and then found out after that flash is a pain with google searches (something you'll be wanting to know about eventually) - so you have to tread carefully.

If your doing dance music, labels and the DJ using their material are your target, but if you spam them with crap mp3 then your on their ignore list - so you need to present yourself well or lose the chance...

500 Euro? That's nothing surely? Can that make ANY impact?
Taking it one can rely on 'Luck' at all - what good can Euro 500s worth of 'promotion' possibly do?
Wouldn't you be better buying some plugins?

Neurojazz

500e is a lot for a first release into the dance market using those sorts of agents - it really does depend on how much money / budget is available to play with...

Lets say it's a killer track and the label knows it, then they'd probably bypass the low end publicity and approach a major DJ for a remix - that DJ probably has other infrastructure to support a worldwise release at the cost of sharing income with the label... this is when your 50% share get so much smaller....

Crafty clauses include 'Packaging reductions' and clauses that have ever diminishing returns on value CD compilations etc...

If you goto a label 'green' you'll be eaten alive by the sharks - and the label itself probably hasn't got a decent lawyer to make sure it gets YOU a good deal when dealing with 3rd parties also... a lovely mine field.

I was involved with the UK music industry, and frankly found it a shark infested pool of death - i still see contracts friends have signed and cringe... one guy released 10+ tracks and still not seen a penny.... pathetic.

If a tune is really, really good you'll probably be able to get more leverage on a label - i suppose a golden rule is too remember that it's your product that keeps food on all your plates.

Neurojazz

btw - i know there are companies that offer 'free' promotions or low cost access to digital portals - when after a few months of digging i found out exactely who they use and how much it costs... it cost £0 to release digitally....

fabbydabby

Anyone else experience problems with the music player on myspace?

I ripped the mixdown to 160kbps MP3 and listened to it... came out clean as a whistle. Then uploaded it to myspace and it now sounds like I recorded it onto a tape from Atlantic 252! Buh?

PaulBrewer

fabbydabby wrote: »

Anyone else experience problems with the music player on myspace?

I ripped the mixdown to 160kbps MP3 and listened to it... came out clean as a whistle. Then uploaded it to myspace and it now sounds like I recorded it onto a tape from Atlantic 252! Buh?

That's what it does ok...

seannash

try soundcloud also,lets you upload 320 and wavs

DamagedTrax

just to throw my hand in here.

most digital deals now are 50/50 with label after costs. damaged trax costs arent quite so high as we have a sister label in the UK (Retox Recordings) and we have a joint digital distribution deal (along with our new label that'll be up and running soon). the distributers are looking after a certain amount of marketing while my man in retox looks after the rest (i look after A+R and production end of things for all 3 labels).

Generally an artist is very lucky to see more than €400/500 on any given release and if anyone is given the option of a one off payment (500+) then, unless your track is the best thing since sliced bread, i'd take it (try and wangle yourself a few % points aswell).

the net figures are quite similiar on the vinyl side of things aswell. although production costs are higher, gross returns are also well higher, so it kinda evens out.

a lot of the time now i do track swaps with labels. ive gotten to know most labels on the scene and we just keep things "in the family" so to speak. this helps both labels have healthier accounts while still benefitting each other.

to be honest a release, on the dance scene, is really just a business card for gigs. im just back from poland last weekend and i made more in 2 hours than i'd make from 2 releases.

Neurojazz

Have to agree with you about track swapping - a great way to open doors with other labels.

studiorat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

to be honest a release, on the dance scene, is really just a business card for gigs. im just back from poland last weekend and i made more in 2 hours than i'd make from 2 releases.

I reckon that stands pretty much for the band thing too, if you shift a few t-shirts and CD's well and good too. It would seem like the way of the future, for the moment.

Anybody else traveling to Poland regularly should look into signing on the dole there too, I hop over once a month and sign for a wife and 3 kids. Thanks Ryan Air...

PaulBrewer

studiorat wrote: »

Thanks Ryan Air...

Aye, they're a great label ...

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

just to throw my hand in here.

most digital deals now are 50/50 with label after costs. damaged trax costs arent quite so high as we have a sister label in the UK (Retox Recordings) and we have a joint digital distribution deal (along with our new label that'll be up and running soon). the distributers are looking after a certain amount of marketing while my man in retox looks after the rest (i look after A+R and production end of things for all 3 labels).

Generally an artist is very lucky to see more than €400/500 on any given release and if anyone is given the option of a one off payment (500+) then, unless your track is the best thing since sliced bread, i'd take it (try and wangle yourself a few % points aswell).

the net figures are quite similiar on the vinyl side of things aswell. although production costs are higher, gross returns are also well higher, so it kinda evens out.

a lot of the time now i do track swaps with labels. ive gotten to know most labels on the scene and we just keep things "in the family" so to speak. this helps both labels have healthier accounts while still benefitting each other.

to be honest a release, on the dance scene, is really just a business card for gigs. im just back from poland last weekend and i made more in 2 hours than i'd make from 2 releases.

So all those guys who were puffing and blowing on my 'what have you done' type thread going on about releases here there and anywhere are only looking at making a weeks wages for a track?

DamagedTrax

cant speak for any other scene to be honest but the money isnt good, thats for sure. but its what you gain from the releases - ie. gigs.

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

cant speak for any other scene to be honest but the money isnt good, thats for sure. but its what you gain from the releases - ie. gigs.

As S.Rat says, it's a calling card.

DamagedTrax

also i make a bit of money on doing mixes (and remixes) for other labels. once you get a few high profile (notice i didnt say "high earning" :pac:) releases out then the studio work starts coming in.

theres also the prostituting yourself aspect of it too. you get a young dj who wants his name on a track, he comes to you. pays you and you basically produce a track with his input. deal done and my name would never appear on one of them. bit morally questionable but its putting bread on the table.

Neurojazz

Yeah - there are exceptions to the 'calling card' though... it is possible to make money via the dance scene with DJ support - doesn't have to be gigs after gigs...

If you write to please a certain genre and get good DJ support then your income would high - but of course the 'calling card' helps many other avenues (getting gigs from promoters and lots of other opportunities i'm sure)

The best project i was involved in basically earned more from sales that gigs because of high profile support - but could have done the gig route i'm sure if we'd had a decent agent at the time. In regards to Poland... we did a gig there and the other half of the act decided to hob nob and got mugged (we'll they tried), thank god for international bank transfers lol

DamagedTrax

Neurojazz wrote: »

If you write to please a certain genre and get good DJ support then your income would high

*cough* hard house *cough* hard trance *cough* hard dance *cough* electro house *cough....*


..excuse me.. must be coming down with something here..

Neurojazz

ok, certain high selling areas

I mean... maybe it's just me - but since i've started looking at other genres (like house/trance etc..) and the mainstream areas that sell more 'units' i've found more open doors... Now from a musicians perspective to me seems logical... i want to reach high numbers and have some fun making those people happy.... so have had to change styles and understanding to match those areas...

It's a real pity damagetrax music isn't like in the top 3 selling genres, coz (as i've said before) - i think the sun shines out his arse musically - very solid, energetic music with a lot of interesting work on the sounds for the electronica purist to paw over - to be honest his stuff is something that would send me mental in a club - not even about style or genre, jsut prely from a 'lets jack yer body' groovy fecking music ;P

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

theres also the prostituting yourself aspect of it too. you get a young dj who wants his name on a track, he comes to you. pays you and you basically produce a track with his input. deal done and my name would never appear on one of them. bit morally questionable but its putting bread on the table.

What would you expect from lads that aren't even musicians ?;)

DamagedTrax

@ neurojazz

its only a hobby to me these days to be honest. i wouldnt have the inclination to switch genres now. im enjoying it as a hobby and i reckon ill keep it that way. never liked trance anyway :pac:

but yeah it is quite purist. thanks for the nice words too

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What would you expect from lads that aren't even musicians ?;)

i dont expect anything except the lovely green i get handed at the end of the session

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

So all those guys who were puffing and blowing on my 'what have you done' type thread going on about releases here there and anywhere are only looking at making a weeks wages for a track?

your average release these days is not gonna make any artist any money.

however in dance music, even to have an unprofitable release on certain labels, and to have those releases playlisted by big dj's means you can actually make a career out of the dj/live side of things.

most beatport releases would barely sell past the 100 mark. But on the small minority of 'respected' labels, they would sell a few thousand of many releases.

Neurojazz

most music i sell (dance music) sells on iTunes - and sells about 100+ a month, Beatport income is pretty rubbish - Don't know why that is - maybe they are hyped up or something

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

most music i sell (dance music) sells on iTunes - and sells about 100+ a month,

Better than a Knee to the Groin if it rolls on, I guess.

fabbydabby

This has been a most interesting and entertaining thread, so thanks to all contributors

OK, so the myspace audio encryption codec is taking my painstakingly crafted piece of music and sodomising it brutally and without remorse, it sounds like I recorded it on my phone, then compressed it to 32kbps MP3... rank.

Also it seems to be under the impression that the tune is 12 mins long, whereas in reality it's more like 8:30

I tried EVERYthing, but no joy. My MP3 version of it sounds fine, I don't know what the hell is wrong with myspace.

But have a listen anyway and tell me what you think. I am more than happy to take critisism on board if it's constructive but this is our first proper attempt at music production so keep smart arsed comments to yourself please.

www.myspace.com/defactodisco

Feel free to add me as a friend:)

Rockshamrover

Hey Fabbydabby, that's very good. Very funky bass.
Best of luck.

frobisher

I understand this question and have asked myself it many times. Up until a few years ago there were very established and traditional routes for the various types of music to go down various avenues. But that has changed a lot and direct artist to listener connections are possible in a way that they weren't before.

I'd suggest having a hard think about exactly what you want, consider what it might take to get that and if you still want it then just go for it. If that's you online distribution then sweet, nice and easy. If it's a major label deal then you better get busy.