Poll on garage charges

LoveDucati2

I have voted once, please only vote once.


I would like to know how many ordinary consumers would be happy to know that your garage or mechanic is pocketing at least 25% of the quoted price you pay for parts, as well as charging you for the labour to do so.



I firmly believe that this is wrong and is a rip off, however the attitude from services is that they all do it and it's their right to do it.

This is a quote from this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055457600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darragh29
The price of 306 Euro is retail price including VAT. I would expect to get a discount of around 25% on that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDucati2
I cannot believe that you would pocket €77 euro for ordering a part and then have the audacity to charge mulitple labour hours on top of this.

This is profiteering, its just wrong.

Jonny303

Look, this is BUISNESS

what do shops do? they buy a product and but there extra onto it and sell it.

Gary ITR

So should spar shops sell bottle of Coke at cost too? Garages have to cover costs of sourcing parts too. Somebody to collect them, the van they are collected in etc etc

minxie

there will always be a mark up on such like...
better the devil you know an all that!!!!:D

-Chris-

I think you should add another option to your poll:

"I think any business should charge what they want, but they should remember that if the customer doesn't feel the price is fair, they will look elsewhere for their needs."

Jonny303

ive re-read this again and i just cant get my head around the argument.

ducati - what do you work as? do you work for a non profit making orginisation? i doubt it somehow

garges are not "fitters, bysupplying parts they supply a service, and make money off of it. simple economics

do you think builders building your extension charge you for blocks at the same price they pay?

Owenw

K-Jet wrote: »

So should spar shops sell bottle of Coke at cost too? Garages have to cover costs of sourcing parts too. Somebody to collect them, the van they are collected in etc etc

Should Spar start charging labour for running the checkouts in addition to the cost of the marked-up goods you plan to purchase? Someone has to sit there running it all day, someone has to update stock, someone paid for the EPOS system etc.

rebel.ranter

A couple of points:
1. I'm not sure proper research has been done into this topic. I haven't seen from the example cited by the OP that a travesty has occurred.

2. I believe it is fair that an independent garage adds on a margin on parts.

3. I service & maintain my own cars & there is a bit of time & inconvenience in sourcing parts, driving to the parts suppliers (have gone O.E.M. nuts in recent years for most parts), a garage has someone on the clock doing this task, they also have a requirement for a van/car to do this too. In addition to this if they have a "frequently used" stock there is an additional price per square metre for the additional space required to stock these parts.

4. It depends on the margins being made, I would say 30% would be an acceptable margin, not a 30% premium over the suppliers price to Joe Public mind, there is a difference. Those in the trade normally have a discount with suppliers. I think it is fair that an independent adds <30% to the price they get the part for. I suppose an overall "profit" of 25% is fair.
It should mean a slight price difference compared to the customer sourcing it themselves. Convenience always has a price.

Finally a Main Dealer should have zero price difference to the walk-in price available at the parts counter. I would expect that they have the majority of stuff in stock or a frequent delivery service. For BMW stuff I am consistently amazed at the obscure stuff they will have in stock, & if they don't it is normally 2 days max. of a wait.

peasant

not again :rolleyes:

We just had a mile long thread on that.

Problem:
A garage will try and maximise their profit, they are a business, not a charity.
The customer will try and pay as little as possible.

Solution:
Shop around, get quotes, haggle before the job starts, don't moan afterwards.

Gary ITR

Owenw wrote: »

Should Spar start charging labour for running the checkouts in addition to the cost of the marked-up goods you plan to purchase? Someone has to sit there running it all day, someone has to update stock, someone paid for the EPOS system etc.

Yes and it all gets added into the price you pay for your goods. Take Volvic water, I know that this goes into shops at about €14 per case and usually on a 3+1 free deal. This works our and roughly 45cents a bottle (quick head maths) and they sell them for roughly 1.30 a bottle.

LoveDucati2

So all you guys think making 77 euro on a clutch and then adding how ever many hours labour on top is fair?

77 euro for making a phone call

peasant

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

So all you guys think making 77 euro on a clutch and then adding how ever many hours labour on top is fair?

77 euro for making a phone call

Nothing is keeping you from taking your business elsewhere

rebel.ranter

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

77 euro for making a phone call

I know but the clutch can't be sent down the phone line!:D

Del2005

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

So all you guys think making 77 euro on a clutch and then adding how ever many hours labour on top is fair?

77 euro for making a phone call

They have to do a lot more then make a phone call. They have to know what part to order, where to order it from and pay for heat and light in the garage. Don't forget they will get the same discount for everything. If they order a cheap part they still have to do all the same work and get nothing for it.

Every buisness does this, buy low sell high. Do you go into Tesco and give out to them for marking up your Tea and milk? If they didn't they'd go out of buisness quickly.

Now you know that they are marking up so much maybe you should ask for more discounts from all buisnesses not just garages as they are all marking up.

LoveDucati2

Del2005 wrote: »

They have to do a lot more then make a phone call. They have to know what part to order, where to order it from and pay for heat and light in the garage. Don't forget they will get the same discount for everything. If they order a cheap part they still have to do all the same work and get nothing for it.

That what the Labour charge is for. They have a list of suppliers on the desk, identify the part, phone the supplier, who delivers by the way several times a day.

It is wrong to charge someone €77 profit on a clutch when you will be making 4 hours labour off them.

Del2005 wrote: »

Every buisness does this, buy low sell high. Do you go into Tesco and give out to them for marking up your Tea and milk? If they didn't they'd go out of buisness quickly.

Can you all try to understand this, Tesco make a profit because they sell you goods, they make a loss on some but make it back on others. They do not charge you labour to eat the food

Del2005 wrote: »

Now you know that they are marking up so much maybe you should ask for more discounts from all buisnesses not just garages as they are all marking up.

I agree with you completely, from now on we should ask the garage straight out how much they are paying for parts, and how much they are marking up, and we the customer should ring the motor factor or supplier they use to verify said price.

LoveDucati2

peasant wrote: »

not again :rolleyes:

We just had a mile long thread on that.

Problem:
A garage will try and maximise their profit, they are a business, not a charity.
The customer will try and pay as little as possible.

Solution:
Shop around, get quotes, haggle before the job starts, don't moan afterwards.

Have you got a problem with free speech.

The other thread got hijacked, this is a poll.

Live with it

Darragh29

I haven't voted in this poll simply because there is not an option there that reflects the reality that a garage is a business and like every other business in the world, must make a profit on what it sells to pay overheads.

I am very open and forthright here in discussions, and it is regrettable that the creator of this thread chose to take up contributions that I've made here in good faith and place what only could be called a stupid construction upon those comments that I've made...

Does the OP have an issue with going into a restaurant and paying 20-30 Euro for a bottle of wine that the vendor is buying for under 10 Euro down in Musgraves and then putting a 100%-200% mark up on that product??? And don't come back with the empty argument, "he's not changing me labour", because unless the waiter and the chef and the manager are all working for free, somewhere in your invoice is a contribution to a the cost of labour for people who get paid to put that steak on your plate.

-Chris-

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Have you got a problem with free speech.

The other thread got hijacked, this is a poll.

Live with it

You support free speech, but seem to be against the free market?

LoveDucati2

AudiChris wrote: »

You support free speech, but seem to be against the free market?

Of course I support the free market.

Just comment on this


Customer comes in with a Subaru needing a new clutch

Garage says, €306 for the parts and €240 for 4 hours labour @60 per hour for arguments sake.

Would you tell customer they are being charged twice.

How would you feel if you found that while you were paying €306 for the parts and €240 labour, a total of €546, that the garage profited off you to the tune of 32% of the labour charge for a phone call.

What is the labour charge for then.

Are things that tight in garages that at 60 euro an hour you cannot make money.

Owen

Oh yes, a fair poll indeed. The items on your poll become more and more sensationalist, until you reach the pinnacle of tabloidism in your final option. Do you by any chance work for the News of the World?

Stupid poll, and it will end up being a stupid thread. All businesses buy something for one price, and sell it for another. Get over it already - you've been making the same tired, wrong point since you joined boards. If I didn't know better, I'd say you're a troll.

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

Oh yes, a fair poll indeed. The items on your poll become more and more sensationalist, until you reach the pinnacle of tabloidism in your final option. Do you by any chance work for the News of the World?

Stupid poll, and it will end up being a stupid thread. All businesses buy something for one price, and sell it for another. Get over it already - you've been making the same tired, wrong point since you joined boards. If I didn't know better, I'd say you're a troll.

I am entitled to have an honest opinion.

You cannot state that my point is wrong.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Of course I support the free market.

Just comment on this


Customer comes in with a Subaru needing a new clutch

Garage says, €306 for the parts and €240 for 4 hours labour @60 per hour for arguments sake.

Would you tell customer they are being charged twice.

How would you feel if you found that while you were paying €306 for the parts and €240 labour, a total of €546, that the garage profited off you to the tune of 32% of the labour charge for a phone call.

What is the labour charge for then.

Are things that tight in garages that at 60 euro an hour you cannot make money.

Again, as another poster commented, the clutch doesn't come down the phone line.

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I am entitled to have an honest opinion.

But your opinions are far from honest. Since you've joined boards, you've sought out every thread with the remotest mention of a Dealer you can, and shouted repeatedly that they're all rip off merchants, and that they shouldn't be making profit.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

You cannot state that my point is wrong.

Listen, everyone else is also telling you your point is wrong. So if the whole world says you're wrong, maybe you should consider the point again?

A person, garage, local shop, or Internet store buying an item for one price and selling it for another isn't profiteering - they are however making a profit, which is the function of all businesses. Get over it already, if you keep making the same silly wrong point for the next 12 months, everyone will still disagree with you, and your opinions about other Motoring topics will be ignored because people will think you're nuts.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I am entitled to have an honest opinion.

You cannot state that my point is wrong.

Do you carry like this with every busness transaction you get into, demanding to know how much the restaurant paid it's supplier for the steak they are charging you 28 Euro for??? How much the bottle of wine they are charging you 25 Euro for, cost them??? How much of your final bill is for "labour costs" and how much of your final bill is for "materials"???

FAIL.

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

Again, as another poster commented, the clutch doesn't come down the phone line.

Virtually all garages pay pittance for delivery or if not get it for free.

Why can't you answer the question I asked.

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Virtually all garages pay pittance for delivery or if not get it for free.

Wrong again. A clutch is a heavy item, and will be expensive enough to ship. DHL don't do discounts to garages ,nor do An Post. Whatever individuals pay to ship a clutch, a garage pays the same (Unless it's a main franchised dealer, in which case, they are paying an annual delivery fee to the manufacturer, which to be honest, isn't a whole lot cheaper).

-Chris-

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Of course I support the free market.

Just comment on this


Customer comes in with a Subaru needing a new clutch

Garage says, €306 for the parts and €240 for 4 hours labour @60 per hour for arguments sake.

Would you tell customer they are being charged twice.

How would you feel if you found that while you were paying €306 for the parts and €240 labour, a total of €546, that the garage profited off you to the tune of 32% of the labour charge for a phone call.

What is the labour charge for then.

Are things that tight in garages that at 60 euro an hour you cannot make money.

I'd say the better way would be for a garage to provide an invoice for €546 and not break out the component parts. If you could get it done cheaper somewhere else, you could go there.

I don't care where the profit is being made - labour, parts, rebates... - as long as the price is fair.

ned78 wrote: »

Stupid poll, and it will end up being a stupid thread.

Unfortunately, because this conversation has already been had at length in the other service thread, this thread is at once redundant and stupid.

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

But your opinions are far from honest. Since you've joined boards, you've sought out every thread with the remotest mention of a Dealer you can, and shouted repeatedly that they're all rip off merchants, and that they shouldn't be making profit.

My opinion is as valid as yours, where have I shouted, please refrain from using statements that you cannot prove.

ned78 wrote: »

Listen, everyone else is also telling you your point is wrong. So if the whole world says you're wrong, maybe you should consider the point again?

Well so far more people on the poll think its wrong to make 25% or more on parts, are they all wrong too, you are full of S.

ned78 wrote: »

A person, garage, local shop, or Internet store buying an item for one price and selling it for another isn't profiteering - they are however making a profit, which is the function of all businesses. Get over it already, if you keep making the same silly wrong point for the next 12 months, everyone will still disagree with you, and your opinions about other Motoring topics will be ignored because people will think you're nuts.

I think you need a moderator

ned78 wrote: »

Wrong again. A clutch is a heavy item, and will be expensive enough to ship. DHL don't do discounts to garages ,nor do An Post. Whatever individuals pay to ship a clutch, a garage pays the same (Unless it's a main franchised dealer, in which case, they are paying an annual delivery fee to the manufacturer, which to be honest, isn't a whole lot cheaper).

Rubbish

Darragh29 wrote: »

Do you carry like this with every busness transaction you get into, demanding to know how much the restaurant paid it's supplier for the steak they are charging you 28 Euro for??? How much the bottle of wine they are charging you 25 Euro for, cost them??? How much of your final bill is for "labour costs" and how much of your final bill is for "materials"???

FAIL.

you must be a politician, you get asked a specific question and then you go running off at the mouth with a completely different answer

Dob74

Its one area of the economy where the consumer gets raped. 300 euros for a basic service is just crazy. Thats on the cheap end. I am glad to see all these garages hurting, they have been ripping us off for too long.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Virtually all garages pay pittance for delivery or if not get it for free.

Why can't you answer the question I asked.

You are not dealing with the questions above that I'm putting to you.

My rule of thumb on the acquisition of parts is this, as far as costs are concerned. If I had to send a taxi up to a supplier to get a part, wait around to get served (could be 10 minutes if not more if supplier is really busy, taxi meter still running by the way), this is the benchmark cost to me of getting those parts from my supplier into my garage and under your car.

If I was to send a taxi up to get those parts, there would be over 5 Euro on the meter just to get the taxi at my business outlet, he hasn't even started the job yet! If I commit to you that I will have your car ready for 6PM/close of business today, I have to take full ownership of that process and get the parts into my business in good time. If I'm waiting around for a supplier to deliver parts and I'm somewhere on a list with other people, then I'm possibly going to be telling you at 6PM that your parts didn't arrive and the car won't be ready until tomorrow, at which point you will be demanding a hire car paid for my me! I have to provide a car and pay someone getting paid anywhere up to 15-20 Euro an hour to manage the task of getting the correct replacement parts under your car.

By the way I might add, when that mechanic is out running around for parts, you don't see the 30-60 minute activity (if everything goes smoothly and the suppler has ordered in the correct part for me and there are many times that this is not the case), appearing on your invoice.

Tipsy Mac

I had a set of front wipers fitted to my car last time I had it serviced, they were cheap $hite that I reckon would be less than €15 for the pair if I myself purchased them at full price from Halfords or any motor factors, yet I was charged €35 for them. This at the same time as a set of Bosch blades was about €25, I was fuming when I saw the price and looked at the junk that was fitted, needless to say I have blacklisted the dealer in question from any further work on my car.

Owen

LoceDucati2, where are you getting your facts from. I'm very curious to know. You've told me that my statement that DHL and An Post don't discount to Dealers is rubbish. Yet I do work in the Trade, and I can state that with 100% accuracy.

You're on here with an arrogance which is fair enough, we all have our opinions - but if you're going to state something, you need to be prepared to back it up with facts.

Garages (Or any other business) making profit on parts is not illegal, and you need to realise that, AND change your poll.

Darragh29

Dob74 wrote: »

Its one area of the economy where the consumer gets raped. 300 euros for a basic service is just crazy. Thats on the cheap end. I am glad to see all these garages hurting, they have been ripping us off for too long.

Try running a garage, it is nearly impossible to make money at it. There is a problem with costs in this economy that makes any small business start-up hugely difficult.

Darragh29

With your obvious talent in designing polls, you should apply for a job in Zimbabwe managing elections over there. I hear Robert Mugabe is looking for someone with your abilities...

LoveDucati2

Jonny303 wrote: »

ive re-read this again and i just cant get my head around the argument.

ok maybe you are a bit slow

Jonny303 wrote: »

ducati - what do you work as? do you work for a non profit making orginisation? i doubt it somehow

banker

Jonny303 wrote: »

garges are not "fitters, bysupplying parts they supply a service, and make money off of it. simple economics

Agreed, the argument here is 77 quid profit for just ordering a 300 quid clutch is morally wrong, thats all

Jonny303 wrote: »

do you think builders building your extension charge you for blocks at the same price they pay?

anyone using a builder in this country would be mad not to use a quantity surveyor, of course you would have a full breakdown of all costs in advance. thats a rant for another day

Darragh29 wrote: »

You are not dealing with the questions above that I'm putting to you.

My rule of thumb on the acquisition of parts is this, as far as costs are concerned. If I had to send a taxi up to a supplier to get a part, wait around to get served (could be 10 minutes if not more if supplier is really busy, taxi meter still running by the way), this is the benchmark cost to me of getting those parts from my supplier into my garage and under your car.

If I was to send a taxi up to get those parts, there would be over 5 Euro on the meter just to get the taxi at my business outlet, he hasn't even started the job yet! If I commit to you that I will have your car ready for 6PM/close of business today, I have to take full ownership of that process and get the parts into my business in good time. If I'm waiting around for a supplier to deliver parts and I'm somewhere on a list with other people, then I'm possibly going to be telling you at 6PM that your parts didn't arrive and the car won't be ready until tomorrow, at which point you will be demanding a hire car paid for my me! I have to provide a car and pay someone getting paid anywhere up to 15-20 Euro an hour to manage the task of getting the correct replacement parts under your car.

By the way I might add, when that mechanic is out running around for parts, you don't see the 30-60 minute activity (if everything goes smoothly and the suppler has ordered in the correct part for me and there are many times that this is not the case), appearing on your invoice.

now you are just being ridiculous, I am positive many people have gone to pick their cars up and being told "sorry mate part wont be in until tomorrow" ie f off, come back then

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

With your obvious talent in designing polls, you should apply for a job in Zimbabwe managing elections over there. I hear Robert Mugabe is looking for someone with your abilities...

Excellent, and with your ability to overcharge on parts we'd make a great team.

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

LoceDucati2, where are you getting your facts from. I'm very curious to know. You've told me that my statement that DHL and An Post don't discount to Dealers is rubbish. Yet I do work in the Trade, and I can state that with 100% accuracy.

You're on here with an arrogance which is fair enough, we all have our opinions - but if you're going to state something, you need to be prepared to back it up with facts.

Garages (Or any other business) making profit on parts is not illegal, and you need to realise that, AND change your poll.

I was a mechanic Ned, and a trader, all in the UK though, so probably doesn't count with you lot

Plug

LoveDucati2 what the hell is your problem? If your so pissed off about it do your services, timing belts and clutches yourself:rolleyes:
As darragh29 says do you go into a restaurant and ask about the prices of the raw material food and labour? Cos I bet you do, you mean old banker....

Plug

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Excellent, and with your ability to overcharge on parts we'd make a great team.

:rolleyes: coming from a banker.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

now you are just being ridiculous, I am positive many people have gone to pick their cars up and being told "sorry mate part wont be in until tomorrow" ie f off, come back then

Maybe in your industry, which I as a taxpayer am currently underwriting and also recapitalising because the whole industry you are working in has failed, it is acceptable to tell a customer to f*ck off and come back tomorrow.

Again, the facts are, if you could bring yourself to accept them, that if I am to honour commitments made to customers and maintain my credibility as a person who delivers upon commitments made with regard to tasks undertaken, I have to take ownership of the complete process and I can't just sit back and wait for my supplier to drop the parts in at his leisure. If I fail to deliver on a task in terms of quality of product, workmanship or fail to meet an expectation that my customer has of me, I'm immediately in one of the following situations:

(1) I've lost the customer, who has hit the f*cking roof because now they cannot collect bring kids to/from school tomorrow....

(2) I've kept the customer but only because I've been forced to discount the job done, or forced to provide a hire car...

(3) I could be lucky if my customer on this occasion is fully understanding and is no problem, these people are very rare.

This is what you are dealing with when you run a garage, you don't have this experience so you don't understand this...

Owen

I've got one simple question for you LoveDucati2, on what law are you basing the fact that a garage buying a part for one price, and selling it for another is illegal? And you say you're an accountant, so I'd be delighted to hear your answer to this one.

Darragh29

ned78 wrote: »

I've got one simple question for you LoveDucati2, on what law are you basing the fact that a garage buying a part for one price, and selling it for another is illegal? And you say you're an accountant, so I'd be delighted to hear your answer to this one.

To be honest, I think this whole thread is a troll. I've never heard such illogical or irrational ramblings on this forum before.

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

Maybe in your industry, which I as a taxpayer am currently underwriting and also recapitalising because the whole industry you are working in has failed, it is acceptable to tell a customer to f*ck off and come back tomorrow.

Again, the facts are, if you could bring yourself to accept them, that if I am to honour commitments made to customers and maintain my credibility as a person who delivers upon commitments made with regard to tasks undertaken, I have to take ownership of the complete process and I can't just sit back and wait for my supplier to drop the parts in at his leisure. If I fail to deliver on a task in terms of quality of product, workmanship or fail to meet an expectation that my customer has of me, I'm immediately in one of the following situations:

(1) I've lost the customer, who has hit the f*cking roof because now they cannot collect bring kids to/from school tomorrow....

(2) I've kept the customer but only because I've been forced to discount the job done, or forced to provide a hire car...

(3) I could be lucky if my customer on this occasion is fully understanding and is no problem, these people are very rare.

This is what you are dealing with when you run a garage, you don't have this experience so you don't understand this...

BTW I have run a garage, and many other businesses,

You sound like one of the very mechaincs or garages who actually cares about the job you do which is why I find it so hard to believe that you are happy to take 25% off the price of parts.

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

I've got one simple question for you LoveDucati2, on what law are you basing the fact that a garage buying a part for one price, and selling it for another is illegal? And you say you're an accountant, so I'd be delighted to hear your answer to this one.

YAWN

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

To be honest, I think this whole thread is a troll. I've never heard such illogical or irrational ramblings on this forum before.

but yet 62% of people voting think 10% or less of a kickback on parts is fair

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

BTW I have run a garage, and many other businesses,

You sound like one of the very mechaincs or garages who actually cares about the job you do which is why I find it so hard to believe that you are happy to take 25% off the price of parts.

I know for 200% certainty, by virtue of what you are posting here, that you have never ran a garage operation.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

but yet 62% of people voting think 10% or less of a kickback on parts is fair

Forget your poll, it would put Robert Mugabe to shame, of course a poll with such an obvious tilt against the industry will come back with results that are fully consistent with how you have designed it....

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

YAWN

So you can't answer the question I asked you - 'under which law are you claiming that a garage buying a part for one price, and selling it for another is illegal'?

Everytime someone else delayed answering a question you've been quick to ask again, so I think it only fair you answer this question.

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

I know for 200% certainty, by virtue of what you are posting here, that you have never ran a garage operation.

Got your crystal ball out then, thats a very stupid thing to say. You have no idea of the experience I have.

200% certainty, no wonder you get your maths wrong on parts:)

Darragh29 wrote: »

Forget your poll, it would put Robert Mugabe to shame, of course a poll with such an obvious tilt against the industry will come back with results that are fully consistent with how you have designed it....

I thought it was quite fair.

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I thought it was quite fair.

Your poll was fair? Your poll incites people to vote negatively based on the language you used and the method you used to structure the choices. A child could see that. Here's your Poll :


Should a garage pocket 25% of quote parts prices
I think they should charge what they want
Maybe 10% is fairer
No way, if I knew that I would want reduction in Labour
It should be Illegal, it is profiteering

The way you should have worded it to be a fair Poll would be as follows :

What should a reasonable level of profit for Garages be on parts prices
Whatever they feel is fair and equitable based on keeping their business operating
10%
20%
I don't agree with garages making profit on parts.

Yours is anything but fair, and immediately irks people based on no facts whatsoever, but plenty of sensationalism.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Got your crystal ball out then, thats a very stupid thing to say. You have no idea of the experience I have.

200% certainty, no wonder you get your maths wrong on parts:)

Your posts here reflect your experience, or absolute lack thereof.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I thought it was quite fair.

That's the very problem here, your general sense of fairness is not grounded in reality...