BMW 520d Irish dealers importing from UK

LoveDucati2

I spoke to 4 Irish dealers during the week and they are importing all the 520d's they can find in the UK to keep the value artificially high on used 520d's here.

I have a friend thats works with BMW fleet auctions in the UK and Irish dealers are paying between 18k and 22k stg for 08's, VRT of 6k ish (136gm CO2) (156 tax pa), so they are getting the car in for less than 30k at that worse, look at them all on carzone, from 35k.

Rip off

farva

Maybe I'm misreading you post but your saying that Irish dealers are importing an excess amount of 520ds here to keep the price artificially high here? A massive influx of 520ds will drive the price down here as people have more choice in a competitive market.

LoveDucati2

No it means that they are getting harder to source in the UK, so it is stopping the imports by ordinary punters to stop driving the price down here. Its not a competitive market. Bmw dealers are making far more on them than the German models they get new.

Fey!

That doesn't really sound right. It would be cheaper for them to slash their prices than to buy in new stock to seel while their old stock continues to depreciate.

-Chris-

Ireland is the size of a medium/large city in the UK. To suggest that Irish dealers can import enough cars to affect the pricing of cars in the UK seems funny to me.

L-M

Lol i think you have it wrong OP. They're just bringing them in to make money.

bazz26

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I spoke to 4 Irish dealers during the week and they are importing all the 520d's they can find in the UK to keep the value artificially high on used 520d's here.

I have a friend thats works with BMW fleet auctions in the UK and Irish dealers are paying between 18k and 22k stg for 08's, VRT of 6k ish (136gm CO2) (156 tax pa), so they are getting the car in for less than 30k at that worse, look at them all on carzone, from 35k.

Rip off

In order to do that they would have to buy thousands of them, ship them here, store them and then do what with them considering the current state of the second hand market?

And the 320d is the biggest seller for BMW in the UK, in fact the 320d outsells the Ford Mondeo so why are not Irish dealers buying up all of these in the UK too?

I think OP someone is telling you porkies.

alpina

I believe some dealers are in fact importing 520d's (aswell as other models) but I do not know for market saturation? as another poster has said better than me, "if you can't beat'em join'em";)

LoveDucati2

alpina wrote: »

I believe some dealers are in fact importing 520d's (aswell as other models) but I do not know for market saturation? as another poster has said better than me, "if you can't beat'em join'em";)

Sorry I meant fleet sales. They have brought in over 500 of just the 08 520d's, low tax low VRT, it is getting hard to find fleet 08's over there.

Drummerboy08

What exactly is a "fleet" 520d?!

The majority of fleet customers put there cars on Contract Hire for VAT reasons, and it is quite complicated and hard to get a pre registered vehicle on CH with a finance house. For that reason, i would suggest there is no incentive to bring in a 520d for fleet purposes.

copacetic

he means they are ex-fleet cars in the UK.

Drummerboy08

Ah, right, got ya.;)

But i still dont understand his point. If he cant ffind a fleet 520, why not just buy a normal 520?

Tipsy Mac

If they brought in 500 of them to sell at an inflated price they will quickly fine their businesses in receivership .

copacetic

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Ah, right, got ya.;)

But i still dont understand his point. If he cant ffind a fleet 520, why not just buy a normal 520?

well there he has lost me, tha average buyer has no access to fleet returns anyway.

SomeDude

I'm presuming the ex fleet cars are over 6 months and/or over 6,000 km hence it's an easy way to buy a bulk load of cars and avoid paying Irish VAT on import??

BostonB

I don't understand any of this.

Unless the dealers where spinning a yarn to get people thinking theres no point in going to UK, and thus will buy from them.

Berty

Whether any of this is true or not it begs the question.

If I walk into a BMW dealer tomorrow and try to buy a BMW that may have come from the UK. The dealer MUST tell me this information because when I try to insure this car the insurance will ask "has this car been imported?" If I say no, because the dealer did not tell me, then I am making a false insurance statement and could possibly void my insurance.

If a dealer told me he imported it from the UK then I would say "stuff your dealership, im not paying you the luxury of importing cars, I will go an buy it myself and save a few thousand".

BostonB

Berty wrote: »

...
If a dealer told me he imported it from the UK then I would say "stuff your dealership, im not paying you the luxury of importing cars, I will go an buy it myself and save a few thousand".

I'm guessing they would be aiming at people who won't go to the UK, but like the idea of getting a deal of some sort.

Tipsy Mac

Berty wrote: »

If I walk into a BMW dealer tomorrow and try to buy a BMW that may have come from the UK. The dealer MUST tell me this information because when I try to insure this car the insurance will ask "has this car been imported?" If I say no, because the dealer did not tell me, then I am making a false insurance statement and could possibly void my insurance.
.

Fair point but I think the reason the was the car imported question comes from insurance companies is that imported Japanese cars have zero in terms of security and so are a massive theft risk.

BostonB

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Fair point but I think the reason the was the car imported question comes from insurance companies is that imported Japanese cars have zero in terms of security and so are a massive theft risk.

Where are you getting that from? Whats the difference in security between "imported" and non imported Japanese cars.

It used to be many parts were different thus a repair was more expensive. These days its probably just a means of increasing a premium for no reason.

Tipsy Mac

BostonB wrote: »

Where are you getting that from? Whats the difference in security between "imported" and non imported Japanese cars.

It used to be many parts were different thus a repair was more expensive. These days its probably just a means of increasing a premium for no reason.

Japanese 2nd hand cars imported into this country for the vast majority do not have immobilizers fitted as standard, this is due to the fact that in Japan there is almost zero car thefts so they are not required. All Irish/UK cars have immobilizers fitted since about 1997/8, this was due to a law passed to cut down on joyriding.

If you look at reports of stolen cars that are posted on here they are all either 2nd hand Japanese imports or cars stolen with the owners keys.

LoveDucati2

Sorry guys let me be clear.

You must be a reg. dealer with an account with BMW fleet sales, to buy from the BMW fleet sales auctions.

The Irish garages are landing these cars for about 25k and retailing them at over 35k euro at the minimum.

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

The Irish garages are landing these cars for about 25k

Wrong again. How in God's name can you make an assumption like that without actually viewing these private auctions, and seeing the invoices afterwards?

Stop saying things as facts if they're not. You spent a week telling us all that a garage buying parts at one price and selling them at another was illegal, only to backpedal when questioned on it. You're doing the same again now.

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

Wrong again. How in God's name can you make an assumption like that without actually viewing these private auctions, and seeing the invoices afterwards?

Stop saying things as facts if they're not. You spent a week telling us all that a garage buying parts at one price and selling them at another was illegal, only to backpedal when questioned on it. You're doing the same again now.

Ah Ned the Moderator strikes again, you really need to be moderated mate, where do you get off spouting about things you cannot possibly know.

You closed the last 2 threads down so don't go quoting them again.

But if anyone else is interested (sorry if your not )

he is refering to the fact that I think its illegal that Darragh can charge some poor smhuck €77 of a kickback on a €300 clutch.

I started a poll and funnily enough the majority of people voted that 25% was to much profit on parts, then it got hi-jacked by the usual loudmouths (including a Mod)



I have been to these auctions Ned,

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

If they brought in 500 of them to sell at an inflated price they will quickly fine their businesses in receivership .

They have been selling them for the last 4 or 5 months here, its just been unreported, like the fact the the government is paying 60% of all Dell redundancies.

BostonB wrote: »

I'm guessing they would be aiming at people who won't go to the UK, but like the idea of getting a deal of some sort.

They are still charging the same Irish price.

bennyx_o

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Ah Ned the Moderator strikes again, you really need to be moderated mate, where do you get off spouting about things you cannot possibly know.

IIRC, Ned works in a BMW/MINI garage, so he should, and more than likely does know what he's talking about. He also has no moderating powers in the Motors section, so couldn't possibly have closed two threads!

How do you get to the auction? Are you a registered dealer with a BMW fleet sales? You mentioned your friend in the first post, are you sure he's not telling you porkies?

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

You closed the last 2 threads down so don't go quoting them again.

I didn't close any threads, I'm not a Moderator of this Forum. If I was, you'd be banned permenantly for constantly lying, and trying to convince people of half truths and slander.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I have been to these auctions Ned

Now you are lying. These auctions are carried out online.

DF1

Reading an article in the paper today where BMW dealers are now actively sourcing secondhand cars from uk bmw dealers for curtomers. Nothing covert or anything.

SomeDude

DF1 wrote: »

Reading an article in the paper today where BMW dealers are now actively sourcing secondhand cars from uk bmw dealers for curtomers. Nothing covert or anything.

What paper was this in please?

DF1

SomeDude wrote: »

What paper was this in please?

It is in the business & money section of the sunday times, first page of this section on bottom left hand corner.

SomeDude

DF1 wrote: »

It is in the business & money section of the sunday times, first page of this section on bottom left hand corner.

Thanks, must buy a copy. Pity it can't be read online.

bennyx_o

DF1 wrote: »

Reading an article in the paper today where BMW dealers are now actively sourcing secondhand cars from uk bmw dealers for curtomers. Nothing covert or anything.

Theres an ad on the radio for BMW mentioning this, too. Nothing wrong with it, some people don't want the hassle of going to the UK then VRTing it etc

zod

are the Irish garages allowed to import cars and not VRT them immediately ? are they allowed to just take the yellow regs off and put a "garage reg" on them, then simply VRT them when sold ?

Owen

zod wrote: »

are the Irish garages allowed to import cars and not VRT them immediately ? are they allowed to just take the yellow regs off and put a "garage reg" on them, then simply VRT them when sold ?

Pretty much.

alpina

zod wrote: »

are the Irish garages allowed to import cars and not VRT them immediately ? are they allowed to just take the yellow regs off and put a "garage reg" on them, then simply VRT them when sold ?

If I was to buy a UK BMW tomorrow from an official BMW dealer, is he obliged to inform me that it was originally a UK car?

zod

ned78 wrote: »

Pretty much.

why is the law different for them ... when we have untill the next working day to VRT them ?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vrt1.html#section1

is there another section for dealers .. do you have a link? thanks

Owen

zod wrote: »

why is the law different for them ... when we have untill the next working day to VRT them ?

Because that's how the law is I guess. Dealers have something called a TAN number, which allows them to hold stock unregistered (Brand new cars), or registered in other countries on their forecourts until it is sold, at which point they register it in the end user's name.

The alternative if it existed would be for Dealers to buy cars in the UK, or Japan, or anywhere else, register them in their own names, and add an additional user onto the ownership book of the car, and that wouldn't make much sense.

zod

ned78 wrote: »

Because that's how the law is I guess. Dealers have something called a TAN number, which allows them to hold stock unregistered (Brand new cars), or registered in other countries on their forecourts until it is sold, at which point they register it in the end user's name.

The alternative if it existed would be for Dealers to buy cars in the UK, or Japan, or anywhere else, register them in their own names, and add an additional user onto the ownership book of the car, and that wouldn't make much sense.

I understood that to be the case for brand new cars ... ddin't know it was the case for second hand also. Don't understand why there is no mention of it in the VRT info on revenue.ie

Owen

I think it's mentioned on this part of the revenue.ie site, but I'm in the middle of a college assignment, and don't have the time to trawl through it ...

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/vat-and-vrt-on-motor-vehicles.html

mickdw

Was at joe Duffy bmw yesterday, lots of uk 520d & 320d saloon & coupe.
He has 1 2008 irish 320d coupe and 4 or 5 uk ones. He has the irish one priced about 4k higher trying to highlight the 'value' they are offering in the imports. Salesmans bull**** was "due to huge demand, we have had to source additional cars in uk".
I asked about the warranty situation re imports, He said that its a 2 year warranty. I referred to the 3 year warranty on uk cars and that I have known people to get warranty work done here in the third year by claiming costs back from bmw uk. He couldnt comment on this but then said "It will be actually bmw ireland warranty going onto the cars we import" almost trying to imply that the uk warranty doesnt work at all here.

L-M

mickdw wrote: »

Salesmans bull**** was "due to huge demand, we have had to source additional cars in uk".
.

If i understand correctly, there is a demand for them. Therefore they are bringing them in to satisfy demands, and he's bull ****ting you? I don't understand why people go into dealers with the "I know if all" attitude just to piss them off.

mickdw

Limerick man wrote: »

If i understand correctly, there is a demand for them. Therefore they are bringing them in to satisfy demands, and he's bull ****ting you? I don't understand why people go into dealers with the "I know if all" attitude just to piss them off.

I know there is demand for them with the cheap tax etc but ffs get real, why is he selling them at a more realistic price that they were selling them previously? I will tell you if you dont know. Because everyone was satisfying there own demand by importing the car themselves. So the real reason they are going to the uk is to try to grab some of that market back ( they are right to do this of course) but this is the only reason they are over there buying. If it was simply that they couldnt keep up with demand, I dont think they would be showing any price drop

Also my local vw/audi dealer is pulling the same trick with passats etc, bringing them from uk and offering slightly better value. its hardly because he is trying to keep up with demand when he has a forecourt full of 2007 & 2008 irish models

Owen

mickdw wrote: »

themselves. So the real reason they are going to the uk is to try to grab some of that market back

The real reason Dealers are going to the UK now is that with the new VRT rates brought in by beardie-on-the-bike aka Gormless, means that it's now possible to bringing newer cars than what Dealers already have in stock, for less.

This hasn't always been the case, but it is now, and that's why it's happening with increasing frequency - not just because the Dealers are saying 'Individuals are putting us out of business, ooer, we'd better import too' because the numbers of people importing are still nowhere near the numbers of people buying locally.

mickdw

ned78 wrote: »

The real reason Dealers are going to the UK now is that with the new VRT rates brought in by beardie-on-the-bike aka Gormless, means that it's now possible to bringing newer cars than what Dealers already have in stock, for less.

This hasn't always been the case, but it is now, and that's why it's happening with increasing frequency - not just because the Dealers are saying 'Individuals are putting us out of business, ooer, we'd better import too' because the numbers of people importing are still nowhere near the numbers of people buying locally.

Well its alot to do with sterling rates at the moment more than vrt. After all the new prices here came down due to the vrt changes so that partially covers that. With sterling as it currently stands there is simply no comparison price wise and to say the decision to import is more to do with huge demand than the fact the prices here dont compare is just crazy.
imo, a slight vrt increase would make the current irish used stock look better value. then add a manufactured 15 to 20% tax in the form of a "verification of identity/mileage & roadworthiness" charge (which would be legal). This would involve a pre registration inspection together with inspection of documentation re mileage etc. If all of this was done, uk cars would be too expensive and the motor industry would begin to recover.

reverandkenjami

mickdw wrote: »

I asked about the warranty situation re imports, He said that its a 2 year warranty. I referred to the 3 year warranty on uk cars and that I have known people to get warranty work done here in the third year by claiming costs back from bmw uk. He couldnt comment on this but then said "It will be actually bmw ireland warranty going onto the cars we import" almost trying to imply that the uk warranty doesnt work at all here.

He doesn't know what he is talking about so :rolleyes: All UK BMW's have 3 year warranty. All irish & uk warranty claims are paid by BMW UK

Drummerboy08

I have to laugh at this TBH.

For the last 6 months. people have been in the motors forum ranting about the motor trade, saying it offers poor value at the minute, cars are way over priced at the minute etc etc.

Now that a motor dealer has taken some initiative to lower his prices by importing used cars from the UK, you are all giving out about it? What more do you want him to do? The dealer has obviously realised that the market has changed, and he is adapting to it. He cant get Irish stock at the right price, so he sources them else where.

Newsflash for everyone complaining too - Irish dealers have been importing used cars from the UK for years to supply what can be called a "greedy" market.

And, dealers will import and comtinue to import used cars, at least BMW have the sense to buy their stock from a recognised, quality outlet.

@ LoveDucati2 - someone needs to give you a good dose of reality.

I cant blame him for importing cars, the man has to earn a living, he is keeping alot of people in jobs up there, so cut him some slack. Also bear in mind, he may be a member of the SIMI, but he is NOT the SIMI, so it isnt as if he's been telling people this that and the other about importing cars, and then he does it himself.

Sorry lads, but i dont think its fair to call the kettle black, when alot of people who have commented in this thread have either imported, or spoken in this forum of importing vehicles.

brightkane

reverandkenjami wrote: »

He doesn't know what he is talking about so :rolleyes: All UK BMW's have 3 year warranty. All irish & uk warranty claims are paid by BMW UK

Agreed , i brought a 520d in last year from the north. had 2 months warranty left on it (BMW 3 yr)

I had a breakdown, rang them, RAC came out roadside, couldnt fix it. Got it towed to Joe Duffys, got provided with a hire car in the mean time ect. Cost to me nothing, but I was 2 yrs 10 months into the 3 yr bmw uk warranty.

mickdw

brightkane wrote: »

Agreed , i brought a 520d in last year from the north. had 2 months warranty left on it (BMW 3 yr)

I had a breakdown, rang them, RAC came out roadside, couldnt fix it. Got it towed to Joe Duffys, got provided with a hire car in the mean time ect. Cost to me nothing, but I was 2 yrs 10 months into the 3 yr bmw uk warranty.

Did you have it on the irish plate? I thought they would make it a little awkward at least, One dealer made people do the paperwork themselves claiming costs back from bmw uk.

Seth Brundle

A manufacturers warranty is valid across the EU. ANyone buying from say BMW in France, Germany or the UK can have warranty work done here if they choose

reverandkenjami

mickdw wrote: »

One dealer made people do the paperwork themselves claiming costs back from bmw uk.

That can't be true! There is nothing to claim back, ALL warranty claims are paid by bmw uk. Same process if its an irish, english, french or watever car!

mickdw

reverandkenjami wrote: »

That can't be true! There is nothing to claim back, ALL warranty claims are paid by bmw uk. Same process if its an irish, english, french or watever car!

I was told this first hand by guy who owned the bmw that he had to pay but got it all back.
I understand what you are saying but there must be a different process involved when car is in its third year as my understanding of it is that the 2 year warranty is standard europe wide agreement but some countries then have the 3rd year add on warranty (uk being one while ireland doesnt for bmw)
So perhaps the third year claims go to a different department which Irish dealers would rarely deal with as they only deal with the standard 2 year warranty claims. This is just my thoughts, dont know if it makes any sense

Johnny Utah

alpina wrote: »

If I was to buy a UK BMW tomorrow from an official BMW dealer, is he obliged to inform me that it was originally a UK car?

Yes. Under contract law, a motor dealer is obliged to disclose all material information on a car to a potential purchaser.

(Different rules would apply to private sales obviously).