Chinese Justice V Irish Justice

Fozzie Bear

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7843972.stm

For their part in the tainted milk scandal which killed 6 babies and made 300,000 sick two death sentences, a suspended death sentence, two life sentences (which actually means for life) and 6 sentences from 5-15 years were handed down to executives of the various dairies and producers involved. Also fines totaling 11 million dollars were handed out.

If it were Ireland they would have been allowed retire with big fat pensions, a golden hand shake and the tax payer would have had to cover the costs of sorting out their mess.

Could we have the Anglo Irish Bank chairman and executives tried in China please? I'd also lob in the AIB, BOI, various corrupt developers and politicians, Beverly Cooper Flynn and the entire FF party with them into the slow boat to China.

biko

Mob justice ftw

I think their punnishment is a bit harsh if they didn't intentionally kill 6 babies and make 300,000 sick.

Mena

Deleted User wrote: »

I think their punnishment is a bit harsh if they didn't intentionally kill 6 babies and make 300,000 sick.

Yeah, stuffing a baby milk product with a substance known to cause kidney stones and kidney failure so as to artificially increase the protein count on a watered down product and increase profits was done totally by mistake.

petethebrick

Deleted User wrote: »

I think their punnishment is a bit harsh if they didn't intentionally kill 6 babies and make 300,000 sick.

I suggest you read up on the scandal again. Those involved knowingly supplied contaminated produce which led to the deaths/illnesses. It wasn't the first such scandal in China I can see where the Chinese government is coming from - they want to make it clear that such practices will not be tolerated as China continues it's transition to capitalism. Saying that, I'm totally oppposed to the death sentence.

Adamcp898

Was waiting for a thread to come up about this

Seems harsh when you read the headline but when you read the whole article you realise how irresponsible they were being

Cunny-Funt

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7843972.stm

For their part in the tainted milk scandal which killed 6 babies and made 300,000 sick two death sentences, a suspended death sentence, two life sentences (which actually means for life) and 6 sentences from 5-15 years were handed down to executives of the various dairies and producers involved. Also fines totaling 11 million dollars were handed out.

If it were Ireland they would have been allowed retire with big fat pensions, a golden hand shake and the tax payer would have had to cover the costs of sorting out their mess.

Could we have the Anglo Irish Bank chairman and executives tried in China please? I'd also lob in the AIB, BOI, various corrupt developers and politicians, Beverly Cooper Flynn and the entire FF party with them into the slow boat to China.

Yeah but in Ireland I can say "Ireland sucks" with no worries about anything.

If I said "China sucks" on the internet in china, the gov will know about it in mins, trace my ip, and I'd never be heard of again.

I am pie

They won't do it again now will they. Maybe a bit harsh tho.

Biggins

Sorry, no smypathy for them.

Pace2008

While the punishment may have been appropriate in this case, I think if we adopted a Chinese-style judicial system you'd be pining for the old one fairly fast.

Raiser

Yeah but the Chinese Regime/Machine/Lunacy Platform is fcuking scary - they'd happily send 500 people away for life if they felt that it would make them look suitably efficient, just and modern in the eyes of the International community.....

- What happened the folks painting our kids toys with toxic lead paint anyhow?

Biggins

Pace2008 wrote: »

While the punishment may have been appropriate in this case, I think if we adopted a Chinese-style judicial system you'd be pining for the old one fairly fast.

Very true but you'd also think twice before you mass poison a whole country's newborns and beyond.

Biggins

Raiser wrote: »

- What happened the folks painting our kids toys with toxic lead paint anyhow?

Not found what happed to most of them but I came across this:

On August 11, 2007, Zhang Shuhong, co-owner of the Lee Der Toy Company, which supplied Mattel, the world's biggest toy company, with toys based on the Big Bird and Elmo from Sesame Street and Nickelodeon's Dora the Explorer, committed suicide at one of his factories, leaving his factory littered with goods made for Mattel and its Fisher-Price division.[19] Before hanging himself, he paid off all his 5,000 staff.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_export_recalls

See also: http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=10069&size=A

Turd Ferguson

Yes, Lets be more like China.

Cheap sneakers FTW!!!

tallaght01

Killing people won't make these babies better.

Mena

tallaght01 wrote: »

Killing people won't make these babies better.

Whatever my own thoughts on the subject, it may however give pause to anyone else planning something similar in the future.

Biggins

I couldn't even begin to imagine the rest of my natural life in a Chinese prison.
I think I'd rather take the bullet.

buynow

Biggins wrote: »

Very true but you'd also think twice before you mass poison a whole country's newborns and beyond.

Ah yes because the countries without this punishment are having mass poisoning's of babies every day. If only these countries had capital punishment!

This is political saving of face. This padding of milk with junk was the sort of thing that happened in New York in the 1850's ffs.
Maybe if they concentrated on regulation and testing rather than show trials, it may be more effective.

tallaght01

Mena wrote: »

Whatever my own thoughts on the subject, it may however give pause to anyone else planning something similar in the future.

states in america with the death penalty haven't had any reduction in serious crime.

pipsqueak

What sentence do you think these two guys would of got if the scandal happened in ireland? Im guessing probation report and 100 hours community service!!

Mena

tallaght01 wrote: »

states in america with the death penalty haven't had any reduction in serious crime.

Which is why I said "... it may however give pause..."

Bottom line is, as Buynow stated, they need to prevent this type of event happening before the products get out to the public, via regulations and testing.

techdiver

tallaght01 wrote: »

states in america with the death penalty haven't had any reduction in serious crime.

That's a different scenario. These are "white collar" criminals. In the states in the US life expectancy on death row is longer than certain gang members can expect on the streets.

Personally I'm against the death penalty, but at least Corporate criminals are brought to some sort of justice in China, unlike the weak, useless criminal justice system we have in this country.

petrochemical

Their courts are farcical show trials too. Guilty by accusation until "proven" innocent, i.e. if you can bribe the officials.

tallaght01

techdiver wrote: »

That's a different scenario. These are "white collar" criminals. In the states in the US life expectancy on death row is longer than certain gang members can expect on the streets.

Personally I'm against the death penalty, but at least Corporate criminals are brought to some sort of justice in China, unlike the weak, useless criminal justice system we have in this country.

Peronally, i'd rather see corporate moguls get away with crime than bringing in the death penalty.

The fact that we don't deal with them well doesn't mean countries who kill them are doing the right thing.

CreepingDeath

tallaght01 wrote: »

Killing people won't make these babies better.

Someone was bound to roll out that cliche.
It won't help global warming either.... it's a deterent for the future.

Anyways, I thought the chinese sell of the organs of their executed prisoners... so they could help others.

CreepingDeath

tallaght01 wrote: »

states in america with the death penalty haven't had any reduction in serious crime.

Possibly, but it does cut down on re-offending.

* don't mean to pick on your posts tallaght01

The Saint

Well this isn't the first time where high up people have been sentenced to death in China. They even hung the head of a government department in 2007.

The former head of China's State Food and Drug Administration, Zheng Xiaoyu, has been executed for corruption, the state-run Xinhua news agency reports.

He was convicted of taking 6.5m yuan ($850,000; £425,400) in bribes and of dereliction of duty at a trial in May.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6286698.stm

It would at least seem that people in privileged positions are not exempt from punishment unlike many other places.

I am totally against the death penalty anyway but would be nice to see the rules being applied universally across the board.

buynow

You know there are levels of punishment between the 100 hours community service and death, maybe I don't know a longer prison sentence?

For white collar crimes like this, it should be on stripping them of their assets. You take some criminal like this and strip every asset he has from him, prevent them owning a company or anything to do with controlling a company again and cap their earnings per year to minimum wage.

For people like this, they need to be seen to act within the law. So a legal cap on what they can do in life would be more punishment than prison or an easy death.

It is the 21st century ffs should be able to come up with better punishments than locking people up or killing them.

Roadend

The Saint wrote: »

Well this isn't the first time where high up people have been sentenced to death in China. They even hung the head of a government department in 2007.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6286698.stm

It would at least seem that people in privileged positions are not exempt from punishment unlike many other places.

I am totally against the death penalty anyway but would be nice to see the rules being applied universally across the board.

Would there be any politicians left in Ireland if they were treated in this way?

buynow

Roadend wrote: »

Would there be any politicians left in Ireland if they were treated in this way?

You don't actually think they are killing the actual leaders do you?

If this was Ireland, the guy killed would be some junior minister or civil servant who didn't kiss the Taoiseach's ass enough.

ahmed89

crimenals in ireland have it soooooooo easy

tallaght01

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Possibly, but it does cut down on re-offending.

LOL I have to hand that one to you, mate :P

Raiser

pipsqueak wrote: »

What sentence do you think these two guys would of got if the scandal happened in Ireland? I'm guessing probation report and 100 hours community service!!

If an organisation mistreats and abuses children in Ireland then the Government forces the taxpayer to pay off their legal liability/compensation while the especially stupid sit in their Churches putting the rest of their money into those brown baskets.....

Is that ca$h taxed? - fcuking better be, stupid Godfreaks.........

damo

If youre gonna be a criminal ireland is the place to do it alright. The reason our streets are littered with thugs who have 50+ convictions is because it is too expensive to keep them in our hotel like prisons. It costs the taxpayer a whopping 97 thousand euro per prisoner per year. In our high security prisons ie. Port Laoise it costs a quarter of a million. Compare this with american prisons where it costs only 20 thousand DOLLARS per year.

The result is its too expensive to keep people locked up here and our criminals dont really care about going to jail for a while, its probably cosier than their homes anyway.

Here's an idea: lets outsource our prisons to say, the Nigerian government, we could pay them ten thousand euro per prisoner per year. A Nigerian prison would put the fear in our criminals alright, just sit back and watch the crime rate plummet.

Itsdacraic

I wonder which has killed more childern in China, contaminated milk or the governments 1 child per family rule?

Biggins

damo wrote: »

If youre gonna be a criminal ireland is the place to do it alright. The reason our streets are littered with thugs who have 50+ convictions is because it is too expensive to keep them in our hotel like prisons. It costs the taxpayer a whopping 97 thousand euro per prisoner per year. In our high security prisons ie. Port Laoise it costs a quarter of a million. Compare this with american prisons where it costs only 20 thousand DOLLARS per year.

The result is its too expensive to keep people locked up here and our criminals dont really care about going to jail for a while, its probably cosier than their homes anyway.

Here's an idea: lets outsource our prisons to say, the Nigerian government, we could pay them ten thousand euro per prisoner per year. A Nigerian prison would put the fear in our criminals alright, just sit back and watch the crime rate plummet.

+1

Hear, hear!

buynow

damo wrote: »

If youre gonna be a criminal ireland is the place to do it alright. The reason our streets are littered with thugs who have 50+ convictions is because it is too expensive to keep them in our hotel like prisons. It costs the taxpayer a whopping 97 thousand euro per prisoner per year. In our high security prisons ie. Port Laoise it costs a quarter of a million. Compare this with american prisons where it costs only 20 thousand DOLLARS per year.

The result is its too expensive to keep people locked up here and our criminals dont really care about going to jail for a while, its probably cosier than their homes anyway.

Here's an idea: lets outsource our prisons to say, the Nigerian government, we could pay them ten thousand euro per prisoner per year. A Nigerian prison would put the fear in our criminals alright, just sit back and watch the crime rate plummet.

And back in the real world, lawyers and criminals would have a field day a few years afterwards when suing for infringement of their rights after the first 100 die.

That suggestion is as useful as saying our criminals should be all put in giant bubbles in the sky and have little goats with pitch forks poke them constantly.

We need to get more creative. Slowly take away rights and treat them like kids, I think tracking bracelets are a good idea, and there has to be more stuff that can be added. Make them all wear a surveillance camera on their heads, lets see their friends talk to them then!

ahmed89

damo wrote: »

If youre gonna be a criminal ireland is the place to do it alright. The reason our streets are littered with thugs who have 50+ convictions is because it is too expensive to keep them in our hotel like prisons. It costs the taxpayer a whopping 97 thousand euro per prisoner per year. In our high security prisons ie. Port Laoise it costs a quarter of a million. Compare this with american prisons where it costs only 20 thousand DOLLARS per year.

The result is its too expensive to keep people locked up here and our criminals dont really care about going to jail for a while, its probably cosier than their homes anyway.

i agree with you 100%
and prisons as you said are like hotels now for criminals,i mean they get big expensive tvs and everything they want,its just mad

Donny5

buynow wrote: »

You know there are levels of punishment between the 100 hours community service and death, maybe I don't know a longer prison sentence?

For white collar crimes like this, it should be on stripping them of their assets. You take some criminal like this and strip every asset he has from him, prevent them owning a company or anything to do with controlling a company again and cap their earnings per year to minimum wage.

For people like this, they need to be seen to act within the law. So a legal cap on what they can do in life would be more punishment than prison or an easy death.

It is the 21st century ffs should be able to come up with better punishments than locking people up or killing them.

Killing them is very effective.

Biggins

buynow wrote: »

And back in the real world, lawyers and criminals would have a field day a few years afterwards when suing for infringement of their rights after the first 100 die....

There is lies the problem too. They have too many frakin' rights!

buynow wrote: »

We need to get more creative. Slowly take away rights and treat them like kids, I think tracking bracelets are a good idea, and there has to be more stuff that can be added...

Sorry but its been shown now that some of todays thugs just consider such bracelets as badges of honour. They just laugh at the court for issuing them.

spurious

Whatever happened the people in that pork feed plant that were letting/overlooking oil getting into the feed? Or the 'inspectors' that were passing the plant as approved?

They probably got compo for the few days the pork industry shut down.

buynow

Biggins wrote: »

There is lies the problem too. They have too many frakin' rights!

Their rights are your rights, Prison may be too cushy now, but that can rectified. Removing fundamental human rights is not the answer.

Maybe there are bad people who deserve to die for whatever, I don't really care. But what I do know is that there is not a government in the world that I trust with the right to kill people. Anywhere they have that right it is not enacted fairly.

And I would prefer a few people to get away with **** than wander sheepishly backwards when it comes to how we treat each other.

Biggins

buynow wrote: »

Their rights are your rights, Prison may be too cushy now, but that can rectified. Removing fundamental human rights is not the answer.

I agree with the sentiment as regards fundamental human rights.
But rights that allow our prisons to be come well fed unofficial holiday camps with TV's, radios, pool tables, etc... who would really fear going to something like that?
Not much of a deterrent in this day and age.

damo

buynow wrote: »

Their rights are your rights, Prison may be too cushy now, but that can rectified. Removing fundamental human rights is not the answer.

As Biggins pointed out, the problem is they have too many rights. Why does someone who has repeatedly offended and has clocked up 50 convictions have the same rights as someone who has zero convictions and has been a taxpayer their entire adult life?

I read in the paper today about some scumbag in waterford with eighty....yes EIGHTY previous convictions who just stabbed some other guy repeatedly. And he has been sent to a hotel, I mean prison, for 3 years. Everyone in the country knows that when he gets out he will just reoffend again and again, but the problem is that its just too expensive to keep him off the streets.

At a time when our economy is dying, and we are having to make huge cutbacks in public spending, well cutting public sector pay is a good start, but cutting spending on prisons should be a priority also.

End of rant.

RATM

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Could we have the Anglo Irish Bank chairman and executives tried in China please? I'd also lob in the AIB, BOI, various corrupt developers and politicians, Beverly Cooper Flynn and the entire FF party with them into the slow boat to China.

Slow Boat? Bring Concorde out of retirement more like:D

Pride Fighter

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7843972.stm

For their part in the tainted milk scandal which killed 6 babies and made 300,000 sick two death sentences, a suspended death sentence, two life sentences (which actually means for life) and 6 sentences from 5-15 years were handed down to executives of the various dairies and producers involved. Also fines totaling 11 million dollars were handed out.

If it were Ireland they would have been allowed retire with big fat pensions, a golden hand shake and the tax payer would have had to cover the costs of sorting out their mess.

Could we have the Anglo Irish Bank chairman and executives tried in China please? I'd also lob in the AIB, BOI, various corrupt developers and politicians, Beverly Cooper Flynn and the entire FF party with them into the slow boat to China.

Lets execute that bitch.

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Lets execute that bitch.

We could try to do that but the government in an attempt to save money would only cut the power to the electric chair just beforehand!
Coincidence? (food for thought for the conspiracy section lol)

Pride Fighter

Biggins wrote: »

We could try to do that but the government in an attempt to save money would only cut the power to the electric chair just beforehand!
Coincidence? (food for thought for the conspiracy section lol)

A rock could do the job at no extra cost:)

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

A rock could do the job at no extra cost:)

They'd still find a way to charge for manual labour costs, transport costs (from the ground to the target) and add vat to that too!

Thirdfox

Speaking as a law student (who has studied international human rights *well lar dee dah*) I think white collar crime in the "West" needs to be taken a lot more seriously.

The top management at Enron didn't kill anyone directly sure... but they ruined thousands of people's lives. In terms of my own personal moral standards they are much more "guilty" than the guy who shoots one person in a robbery. Yet one gets life/death penalty and the other after a tortuously long trial (understandable - people like myself are working for them after all) get a relatively miniscule sentence. Shoot 1 person = life/death. Knowingly ruin 10,000 people's lives = 10 years (is that correct?) imprisonment, maybe early release for good behaviour too.

As for the head of the FDA in China - it would be like Bush having the head of EPA executed after it was found out that the drowning of New Orleans happened because he took bribes to build shoddy levees that he knew wouldn't stand up against light rain... not many Americans would shed a tear for that person.

Though I'm personally against the death penalty too. Life imprisonment for these monsters of people who intentionally/negligently destroy so many lives!

AckwelFoley

China.

Where rice is rice and milk is plastic