Price at the pumps creeping back up for no apparent reason?

Jaysoose

Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers.

Dannyboy83

I still can't under the way it rises and falls.

It took about 12 weeks for the price of petrol to fall at the pumps, long after it had collapsed on world markets.

Now there is this drama in Gaza/Israel, supposed to be driving prices back up.
But there is no delay in the price increase.

There is one woman near my old apartment on the back road from Ballincollig to Blarney who gives an honest price for the stuff and she is cleaning up.
She was charging 93c per litre petrol when the Texaco on the back Douglas road in Cork and the Texaco near Mahon were charging 103c per litre.
I even buy bread and milk and bits there now just to support her for her honesty.

wasim21k

some one on board was trying to explain how less they make :mad:

Jaysoose wrote: »

Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers.

ongarite

The reason the price is on the way back up at the pumps is because the dollar has gained nearly 10% against euro,sterling in the last 2 weeks.
Sterling is at its lowest against dollar in 7 years and euro at 6 week low.

Guy:Incognito

Jaysoose wrote: »

Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers.

Oil is down near $40 btw.

Why should they not be allowed charge whatever they like btw? just like any other company they have a product and if they want to sell it for €100 a litre they can.

darc

Oil price v refined petrol price is a very complcated equation.
Last week February delivery West Texas Oil (WTI) oil dropped to $34 because they were literally storing it in tankers in huge compounds in Texas, - It was a false price in reality and was more for technical reasons than real market reasons. The price of refined unleaded petrol actually rose to $1.18 per US Gallon (about 24c euro) - and it has been at that level or thereabouts for the past 3 weeks.

It hit a low of 84c in mid December.

However the price of Brent Crude (this is the stuff used in Europe and which most refined petrol is made from) rose to $47. - It was the biggest gap in the 2 types of oil ever, but was temporary.

The march contract is now priced and is at $44 for WTI & $45 for Brent. But the dollar has strengthened to $1.30 / €1 against $1.35 last week & 1.48 at Christmas.

So based on the 24c cost per litre, add 50c governement duty and approx. 10c retail & distribution costs, gives a total of 84c. Add 21.5% VAT and you are at 1.02.

Expect the lower priced stations (they take approx. 4c & distributor takes 4c) to be at 99c & the regular priced stations to be at 1.05.

All current world pricing on all oil products can be found here - http://www.profitquotes.com/commodities-quotes.mpl?i=1&Oil+and+Gas+Quotes

thebman

Stekelly wrote: »

Oil is down near $40 btw.

Why should they not be allowed charge whatever they like btw? just like any other company they have a product and if they want to sell it for €100 a litre they can.

Its when they price fix with each other that it becomes a problem.

If all of them are around 10 c over the odds then there is probably an agreement in place to enforce this which is illegal.

They can't all get together and agree to rip the consumer off.

darc

brim4brim wrote: »

Its when they price fix with each other that it becomes a problem.

If all of them are around 10 c over the odds then there is probably an agreement in place to enforce this which is illegal.

They can't all get together and agree to rip the consumer off.

Its actually called following the competition. - Same happens in supermarkets, airline fares, hotels etc etc etc. WORLDWIDE!

Petrol retailing has probably the most transparent pricing display of any retail outlet.

They must by law display their prices in a certain size at the front of the station. - This also gives other stations in the locality details of pricing in any garage and the competitors will price as per local conditions.

But one thing is absolutely certain - most petrol stations make no profit WHATSOEVER on petrol retailing. And this is proven beyond all doubt when the actual fugures available in public domain are broken down.

The odd exception is a station charging 10c over others, but these stations do little business compared to the volume of the lower priced stations.


Now the profit on a 3.99 sandwich.......that's a different story!

thebman

darc wrote: »

Its actually called following the competition. - Same happens in supermarkets, airline fares, hotels etc etc etc. WORLDWIDE!

Petrol retailing has probably the most transparent pricing display of any retail outlet.

They must by law display their prices in a certain size at the front of the station. - This also gives other stations in the locality details of pricing in any garage and the competitors will price as per local conditions.

But one thing is absolutely certain - most petrol stations make no profit WHATSOEVER on petrol retailing. And this is proven beyond all doubt when the actual fugures available in public domain are broken down.

If they weren't making a profit they'd stop selling the stuff. I imagine they are just trying to create that impression especially if another posters post was accurate and there is a station selling 10c cheaper than the other stations in town. Then she must be very generous to take a 10c loss and just give away the stuff.

ednwireland

its funny how the 2 garages in donegal town fell t 98.9 and the stopped about 8 weeks ago and the prices havent changed since. havent bought petrol in the town since (if i do i put in as little as i need till i get to a cheaper station, their loss not mine.

Lplated

Slightly off topic - but i use www pumps.ie a lot - very handy to find out where the best price petrol/diesel is, its well mapped and constantly updated.

P.S. i've nothing to do with the site, just find it very good, hope its ok to mention it here.

Jaysoose

brim4brim wrote: »

If they weren't making a profit they'd stop selling the stuff. I imagine they are just trying to create that impression especially if another posters post was accurate and there is a station selling 10c cheaper than the other stations in town. Then she must be very generous to take a 10c loss and just give away the stuff.

Exactly if garages are not making money on petrol then why are there so flippin many of them?

Also the old price rises immediately/falls very slowly argument never gets answered but then its ok as they are only making 1c a litre apparently.

Guy:Incognito

brim4brim wrote: »

If they weren't making a profit they'd stop selling the stuff. I imagine they are just trying to create that impression.

If they stopped selling petrol altogether, most stations footfall wouldfall by 95% meaning they wouldnt sell anythign at all.

Retailers all over the world use loss leaders to bring in customers.

Jaysoose

Stekelly wrote: »

If they stopped selling petrol altogether, most stations footfall wouldfall by 95% meaning they wouldnt sell anythign at all.

Retailers all over the world use loss leaders to bring in customers.

If they stopped selling petrol they would be called 'shops', the topaz in blanch does not sell any convienience goods at all so explain that one?

Fighting Irish

Jaysoose wrote: »

Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers.

They charge what we will pay, simple as

thebman

Stekelly wrote: »

If they stopped selling petrol altogether, most stations footfall wouldfall by 95% meaning they wouldnt sell anythign at all.

Retailers all over the world use loss leaders to bring in customers.

Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think one petrol station can sell 10c less than the others and they all have the same profit margin.

Or that the price of all can falls substantially and take months to be passed on and they don't make huge profits off waiting to pass it on.

Its quite simple they aren't losing money on the sale of the product. They may do so occasionally if the market changes suddenly and unexpected against them and their price is low but it isn't happening on an ongoing basis at all.

Thats fooking nonsense TBH.

darc

Jaysoose wrote: »

Exactly if garages are not making money on petrol then why are there so flippin many of them?

Also the old price rises immediately/falls very slowly argument never gets answered but then its ok as they are only making 1c a litre apparently.

It was asked by & answered to an interparty comittee set up by the government last November. the finding were published in December and they confirmed that prices rise & fall at about the same time frame from rises & falls of the inetrnational price of refined gasoline.

As I said before I have absolutely no interests in this field whatsoever, but I had a few spares hours last eyar and did some research on it and found out the actual true figures and realised that no-one was getting rich on petrol sales.

If you get petrol for under €1 at the moment and buy €50, the station will get about €2 from you to pay toward rent / rates / esb / staff. That's a GROSS margin of 4%! I presume most people work in the private sector - ask your directors if they'd operate on a 4% margin??!!

Jaysoose

darc wrote: »

It was asked by & answered to an interparty comittee set up by the government last November. the finding were published in December and they confirmed that prices rise & fall at about the same time frame from rises & falls of the inetrnational price of refined gasoline.

As I said before I have absolutely no interests in this field whatsoever, but I had a few spares hours last eyar and did some research on it and found out the actual true figures and realised that no-one was getting rich on petrol sales.

If you get petrol for under €1 at the moment and buy €50, the station will get about €2 from you to pay toward rent / rates / esb / staff. That's a GROSS margin of 4%! I presume most people work in the private sector - ask your directors if they'd operate on a 4% margin??!!

There is your answer right there.

Guy:Incognito

Jaysoose wrote: »

If they stopped selling petrol they would be called 'shops', ?

How many times have you popped into a spar or a newsagent to buy sweets when your only looking for petrol?

Jaysoose wrote: »

the topaz in blanch does not sell any convienience goods at all so explain that one?

I assume thats the one in your OP? Surely the connection between higher prices than others and the garage only sellign petrol cant be lost on you?

darc

the good news is refined unleaded dropped by 11% today. (oil prices dropped by just 2%) - works out now at approx. 22c, so if it stays down, expect about 3c to come off prices in about 2 weeks.

Also, the dollar is expected to weaken over the coming weeks to 1.40 / 1.45 (this currency thingy is part of my real work!!:D) so we could possible see petrol drop toward 92c / litre in the cheaper stations if prices stay as is or go a little lower.

Expect heating oil to drop to about €420 / 1000 litres & diesel to 86c. - But only if the refined prices drop a further couple of cent from todays price.

P.C.

Jaysoose wrote: »

Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers.

Yip, chancers. :eek:

Why buy it at all?

Just keep driving till you run out of petrol - leave your car there, and you will never have to buy petrol again - that will teach them.

By the way, do you work?
If you do, what do you do?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I still can't under the way it rises and falls.

It took about 12 weeks for the price of petrol to fall at the pumps, long after it had collapsed on world markets.

Now there is this drama in Gaza/Israel, supposed to be driving prices back up.
But there is no delay in the price increase.

There is one woman near my old apartment on the back road from Ballincollig to Blarney who gives an honest price for the stuff and she is cleaning up.
She was charging 93c per litre petrol when the Texaco on the back Douglas road in Cork and the Texaco near Mahon were charging 103c per litre.
I even buy bread and milk and bits there now just to support her for her honesty.

What is she charging for bread and milk?
I bet it is more than Lidil/Aldi - why don't you buy your bread and milk where it is cheapest?
Or do you only buy petrol where it is cheapest, and then throw away the €2.00 you saved on the tank of gas on a chocolate bar?

By the way, do you work?
If you do, what do you do?

brim4brim wrote: »

Its when they price fix with each other that it becomes a problem.

If all of them are around 10 c over the odds then there is probably an agreement in place to enforce this which is illegal.

They can't all get together and agree to rip the consumer off.

Yip, I am sure that all the petrol station owners get together in the pub on a Friday and agree on their prices for the next week. After all, they have to spend all their profit somewhere where they are not being ripped off. :rolleyes:

By the way, do you work?
If you do, what do you do?

I am always interested to know how people claim to know so much about the fuel industry, and then refuse to tell you what line of work they are in. :eek:
They must have owned a pertol station at some time if they know that we are being ripped off by the current price of pertol.
Why did they get out of the fuel industry if they know you can get rich selling petrol?

GerardKeating

ednwireland wrote: »

its funny how the 2 garages in donegal town fell t 98.9 and the stopped about 8 weeks ago and the prices havent changed since. havent bought petrol in the town since (if i do i put in as little as i need till i get to a cheaper station, their loss not mine.

Just because 2 garages are the same price does not mean they are price-fixing, maybe they have the same supplier ?

Or one is price-matching the other..

thebman

P.C. wrote: »

Yip, I am sure that all the petrol station owners get together in the pub on a Friday and agree on their prices for the next week. After all, they have to spend all their profit somewhere where they are not being ripped off. :rolleyes:

I am always interested to know how people claim to know so much about the fuel industry, and then refuse to tell you what line of work they are in. :eek:
They must have owned a pertol station at some time if they know that we are being ripped off by the current price of pertol.
Why did they get out of the fuel industry if they know you can get rich selling petrol?

I never said I knew anything about the fuel industry Getting a little defensive there :rolleyes: I just said it was a possibility if the price is the concidentially the exact same in every petrol station in an area.

In areas where the price doesn't vary at all then it is quite possible that they have gotten together to agree the price.

Toshiba did it with other manufacturers of solid state drives. Compared to getting multi-nationals in different countries to agree to fix the price, getting a couple of petrol stations down the road to price fix together would be a lot easier do you not agree?

Jaysoose

P.C. wrote: »

Yip, chancers. :eek:

Why buy it at all?

Just keep driving till you run out of petrol - leave your car there, and you will never have to buy petrol again - that will teach them.

By the way, do you work?
If you do, what do you do?

Its hardly surprising your confused when you cant read..i have put the answer to your question in bold so even you can see it.


Originally Posted by Jaysoose
Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers

rco2000

not surprised to see that the competition authority is investigated alleged price fixing/collusion in all Co Galway petrol stations. These guys have been sync price changes every day for years without fail. BTW several home heating oil suppliers in Co Galway were already caught price fixing & colluding in 2007. You'd have thought that their petrol station wing would had heeded this etc. Obviously the fines are too tiny to really hurt them. Greeed is alive & well with these infidils!

P.C.

brim4brim wrote: »

I never said I knew anything about the fuel industry Getting a little defensive there :rolleyes: I just said it was a possibility if the price is the concidentially the exact same in every petrol station in an area.

In areas where the price doesn't vary at all then it is quite possible that they have gotten together to agree the price.

Toshiba did it with other manufacturers of solid state drives. Compared to getting multi-nationals in different countries to agree to fix the price, getting a couple of petrol stations down the road to price fix together would be a lot easier do you not agree?

Not defensive, just tired of hearing people moan about the price of petrol.

Have you ever noticed how petrol stations have the price displayed on the roadside - so that anyone, including other petrol stations, can see it?

P.C.

Jaysoose wrote: »

Its hardly surprising your confused when you cant read..i have put the answer to your question in bold so even you can see it.


Originally Posted by Jaysoose
Topaz in blanch village back up to €1.03 a gallon for some weird reason, kept on driving till got cheaper. Why the f&ck are the garages allowed to attempt to rip us off? Crude oil is $50 a barrel? Fukcing chancers

It's actually that part of you post that I was responding to.

Go and do a bit of research on how the price of petrol is 'made up' - ie, how much is tax and VAT, how much of it is production and transprtation cost, and how much of it is down to the crude oil price.

If you still feel that garages are ripping you off, stop buying petrol.

af_thefragile

Does Topaz not like blend bio fuels into their petrol?
So shouldn't that be like cheaper...?

Jaysoose

P.C. wrote: »

It's actually that part of you post that I was responding to.

Go and do a bit of research on how the price of petrol is 'made up' - ie, how much is tax and VAT, how much of it is production and transprtation cost, and how much of it is down to the crude oil price.

If you still feel that garages are ripping you off, stop buying petrol.

Nice simple solution you offer, but not at all realistic.

darc

Jaysoose wrote: »

Nice simple solution you offer, but not at all realistic.

Its terribly easy - I have even posted the link to a site with up to the minute refined prices.

Here's the equations (it took me less than 1 hour last year to find all info)

Refined price as per world traded market $1.12 per U.S. Gallon

U.S. Gallon = 3.8 litres

1.12 divided by 3.8 = 29.5c (US Cent)

29.5 divided by current rate of exchange (1.28) = 23c

Price of unleaded petrol delivered to Port = 23c per litre.

Now the add ons

Duty = 50.87c (fixed no matter what price the petrol costs)


Now we're at 73.87c per litre before VAT & costs are taken into account.


Today's average price = 99.9c / litre (pumps.ie) of which 17.7c is VAT.

Deduct 17.7c from 99.9c and you get 82.2c being the net retail price excluding VAT.


Deduct cost of fuel & duty 73.87c from 82.2c and this equates to a MASSIVE RIP OFF PROFIT for petrol stations & distributors combined of a HUGE 8.33c per litre. (this line is sarcasm)

So a Huge 8.33c per litre goes to pay for the following

Staff wages
Credit card commissions
Rent / rates / ESB
Tankers & Tanker drivers
Unloading ships at port
Office & Marketing costs
and of course the scum who drive off without paying!

Now finally admit, fuel retailing is the one area where there is NO rip off whatsoever. It is the MOST transparent price display product in the country. Some stations will charge a few cent extra, because they don't have the volume of convienence food sale to allow them make a living.

rameire

af_thefragile wrote: »

Does Topaz not like blend bio fuels into their petrol?
So shouldn't that be like cheaper...?

i think from next year 5% of all petrol at the pump in ireland will have to be ethanol.

paconnors

there is a petrol station in the docks in galway is 99.9c for petrol now a garage in Tuam is 95.9c same oil co, surely the station in thetuam is paying more for transport but still is 4c cheaper and Tuam is 30km from Galway. just shows the greed

rco2000

BUMP

GerardKeating

paconnors wrote: »

there is a petrol station in the docks in galway is 99.9c for petrol now a garage in Tuam is 95.9c same oil co, surely the station in thetuam is paying more for transport but still is 4c cheaper and Tuam is 30km from Galway. just shows the greed

Or maybe the difference in property prices between Tuam and Galway City...

Guy:Incognito

paconnors wrote: »

there is a petrol station in the docks in galway is 99.9c for petrol now a garage in Tuam is 95.9c same oil co, surely the station in thetuam is paying more for transport but still is 4c cheaper and Tuam is 30km from Galway. just shows the greed

Sme oil company but does the same guy own both?

rco2000

the same guy prob owns both as most petrol stations in county galway are owned by one of 3 or 4 operators. 2 of these were allegedly caught colluding & price fixing by the authorities in 2007.
sorry, when did petrol prices & local property values become the basis for charging fuel prices in petrol stations?

darc

rco2000 wrote: »

the same guy prob owns both as most petrol stations in county galway are owned by one of 3 or 4 operators. 2 of these were allegedly caught colluding & price fixing by the authorities in 2007.
sorry, when did petrol prices & local property values become the basis for charging fuel prices in petrol stations?

Rent

e.g. Rent of a 2000 sq ft store in Dundrum = approx. €400,000
Rent of a 2000 sq ft store in Navan = approx. €70,000


staff costs in Dundrum - minimum €10 / hour
staff costs in navan - about €9 / hour

Same applies to fuel stations!


Transport of fuel -

Average tanker cost per day - driver + tanker - I'd guess €800

Litres in a tanker = 80,000

Delivery cost for a 20,000 litre delivery = €200 or 1c /litre. Additional cost for delivering to station 20 mile away = neglible.

Guy:Incognito

rco2000 wrote: »

the same guy prob owns both as most petrol stations in county galway are owned by one of 3 or 4 operators. 2 of these were allegedly caught colluding & price fixing by the authorities in 2007.
sorry, when did petrol prices & local property values become the basis for charging fuel prices in petrol stations?

"probably" is no way to run a rant.

rco2000

was'nt havin a rant! :cool:

it is true that petrol stations make very little when it comes to petrol and for the poster who said they wouldnt be selling it other than the fact they are making money needs to do a bit of research.

why do shops sell cigarettes,they make hardly nothing, simple fact it attracts potential buyers of other items which they make a profit off.

my dad used to own a petrol station years ago and said when people paid with credit cards he actually lost money so little was the margin.

in my local petrol station they now frequently put on the pumps 'no credit cards accepted today to waffle off that the machine has broken yet again

Nabber

Using petrol as a leading brand to get people into the shop? Not sure how that works with petrol stations with no shop

If I owned a petrol station I would rip people off. No problem about it. If people are willing to pay. Sure why not

rco2000

problem for these garages is, people are finally no longer willing to be ripped off/pay.

Nabber wrote: »

Using petrol as a leading brand to get people into the shop? Not sure how that works with petrol stations with no shop

If I owned a petrol station I would rip people off. No problem about it. If people are willing to pay. Sure why not

Guy:Incognito

Nabber wrote: »

Using petrol as a leading brand to get people into the shop? Not sure how that works with petrol stations with no shop

It doesnt. The garage the OP was whinging about being dearer than others in the area hasnt a shop. He doesnt see the connection though.

bogman

Shop at the garage displaying the cheapest price for petrol/diesel in your locality, that will force the price down, Esso city link road Cork 93.9, Topaz Bishopstown 101.9 today, do your sums,

rco2000

BUMP

bogman wrote: »

Shop at the garage displaying the cheapest price for petrol/diesel in your locality, that will force the price down, Esso city link road Cork 93.9, Topaz Bishopstown 101.9 today, do your sums,

thebman

bogman wrote: »

Shop at the garage displaying the cheapest price for petrol/diesel in your locality, that will force the price down, Esso city link road Cork 93.9, Topaz Bishopstown 101.9 today, do your sums,

What sort of witchcraft be this? :pac:

Blue_Wolf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I still can't under the way it rises and falls.

It took about 12 weeks for the price of petrol to fall at the pumps, long after it had collapsed on world markets.

Now there is this drama in Gaza/Israel, supposed to be driving prices back up.
But there is no delay in the price increase.
.

Takes 12 weeks to lower as the petrol stations will try to milk the customers for as long as they can while they are buying it in cheaper (making more profit)

Goes back up quicky because they dont want to lose the money.

Get a petrol card if at all possible that way you can stop at a garage that is charging €1.50 per litre but get charged the cheapest price going which could be 96c per litre, save the hassle of trying to find a cheaper place running the risk of running out of petrol

darc

Pre warning-

My calculations are pointing to 1.04(low price stations) - 1.10 (average) per litre of unleaded within 2 weeks.

Cost of refined product has moved to 27c/litre from 21c / litre in the past 2 weeks due to higher refinery prices + strenghtening of US dollar to 1.28!

Diesel is barely affected at all by the recent gasoline increases, so expect diesel to remain at 97c average.

Luckycharm

Petrol station make very little money off selling petrol about 1 or 2 cents per litre. Have you not noticed that alot of the small petrol stations have closed in recent years? As another poster mentioned if you got €50 of petrol paid for it by credit card that garage has made no money from the transaction.
About 63cents of every litre is tax so if petrol was free you would still be paying 63cents per litre.

Alot of Petrol station see the pumps as a parking lot for their shops as that is where they make their money.

bogman

Luckycharm wrote: »

Petrol station make very little money off selling petrol about 1 or 2 cents per litre.

Are you saying that the station selling petrol at 1.00€ per litre and the garage 3 miles down the road selling at 96.9/l both make the same profit 1-2 cents?

rco2000

bogman wrote: »

Are you saying that the station selling petrol at 1.00€ per litre and the garage 3 miles down the road selling at 96.9/l both make the same profit 1-2 cents?

could not have put it better myself!