we need a new party in Irish politics

El Stuntman

Fianna Fail have proven themselves both incompetent (in the extreme!) and corrupt. Sorry to be so blunt for any FF'ers on here but it's obvious that they are not worthy of holding any office and we were idiots to be conned by Bertie (Incompetence and Corruption personnified) in 2002 and 2007.

I almost joined Fine Gael at the start of this year and indeed made the first steps, however their public pronouncements over the last fortnight have convinced me that they have nearly as little idea of how to formulate a coherent policy response than FF. They do seem more honest than FF which is something I suppose.

Labour are a tool of the unions who sadly are now a regressive force in Irish society (look at the ESB pushing through pay rises under threat of strike action this week). This is not what Connolly or Larkin envisioned.

The PDs are defunct.

Sinn Fein are beyond the pale.

Independents are a waste of a vote.

What I see an overwhelming need for is a new centrist party that stands on a platform of two simple core ideals:

1. Honesty. We need a government that is not beholden to narrow sectoral interests; be they developers\ banks\unions etc and we need a government that will operate at all times in the broadest national interest. We also need a government that will explain its actions, in plain language (not the nonsensical jargon that Cowen and Lenihan have been spouting) at all times. This party's funding needs to be 100% above board with full and complete public disclosure.

2. Competence. We need a government that is comprised of people who have significant real-world experience in all arenas; doctors, accountants, managers, transport experts, bankers, engineers. The last thing we need is more career politicans who inherited their daddy's seat and have no idea of the real world outside of Leinster House, their constituency office, their party and their financial backers.

is anyone with me on this or am I just talking through my arse?

KevIRL

Gets my vote anyway

mike65

El Stuntman wrote: »

talking through my arse

Sadly! You are presuming a party could come into existence and remain clean and honest, it never happens - to many variables, too many compromsies required, too many interest groups to please/pay-off.

ART6

Given Ireland's present situation and it's rapid rate of decline, we are facing nothing short of disaster if someone doesn't come up with some ideas pretty damned quick. I agree with OP that FF are not going to do that, and I don't believe that FG or Labour can either. But there are some politicians scattered about through all the parties that do seem to have some competence, although not enough of them in any individual party to be able to take over government competently. So maybe the solution is for a national all party government to be formed like it was in the UK during the last world war, and to bring into cabinet the best from each party. That means the end to petty political points scoring for the time being and heads down lads to fix the problem:mad:

Fratton Fred

a decent party would require decent politicians, if you can find them then we are half way there.

Don't hold your breath though....

dK1NG

Where do I sign up?!

El Stuntman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

a decent party would require decent politicians, if you can find them then we are half way there.

Don't hold your breath though....

that's my point though; these people would not be politicians now but rather people who have worked in a variety of industries and areas with proven expertise, management ability and yes, dare I say it, intelligence (a quality sadly lacking around Kildare St - I still lol when I remember all the FF'ers who eulogised Cowen and Lenihan for their 'intelligence').

there are plenty of talented and patriotic people out there; attracting and motivating them would be the first step

BigCityBanker

Herr Stuntman, what a fantastic idea.

Is there room in your cabinet for one so skilled in the art of dimplomacy as my good self?

El Stuntman

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Herr Stuntman, what a fantastic idea.

Is there room in your cabinet for one so skilled in the art of dimplomacy as my good self?

I think you would make a good Minister for War

Fratton Fred

El Stuntman wrote: »

that's my point though; these people would not be politicians now but rather people who have worked in a variety of industries and areas with proven expertise, management ability and yes, dare I say it, intelligence (a quality sadly lacking around Kildare St - I still lol when I remember all the FF'ers who eulogised Cowen and Lenihan for their 'intelligence').

there are plenty of talented and patriotic people out there; attracting and motivating them would be the first step

an excellent idea. How do you propose getting to people to vote for your party, presuming none of the members are related to De Velera?

I know we all moan about the amount of money TDs earn, but you are talking about business leaders on a lot more than €100k. getting them to give up jobs in the hope of securing a seat would be a big ask at the moment.

Kev_ps3

mike65 wrote: »

Sadly! You are presuming a party could come into existence and remain clean and honest, it never happens - to many variables, too many compromsies required, too many interest groups to please/pay-off.

Yeah, we should be content with what we have, no matter how rubbish they are. Whats the point in even trying:rolleyes:

Killme00

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Herr Stuntman, what a fantastic idea.

Is there room in your cabinet for one so skilled in the art of dimplomacy as my good self?

El Stuntman wrote: »

I think you would make a good Minister for War

I think he would make a good propaganda minister

El Stuntman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

an excellent idea. How do you propose getting to people to vote for your party, presuming none of the members are related to De Velera?

by running on core values of honesty and competence - you don't think people will be attracted to a party that can offer this?

lol, I think not being related to Dev will be a bigger selling point by the time we are finished with FF!

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know we all moan about the amount of money TDs earn, but you are talking about business leaders on a lot more than €100k. getting them to give up jobs in the hope of securing a seat would be a big ask at the moment.

lots of very talented and highly-paid people are losing their jobs at present with no hope of re-employment; there's a potential pool of candidates right there.

first you need to create momentum

Irlbo

We dont need any more political parties,we have enough,and bringing in another one,will not make them less sh*t,dont forget the ones in government are just well known for being in government,there are dozens of political parties out there that started with good intensions and faded into the political limbo,Workers Party,Communist party,Irish peoples party,Progressive democrats,Irish republican socialist party,Christian Solidarity party,and scores f independants,all with diverse ideals and good intentions,were are they now?????????another party in an already crammed 'market' so to speak is cleary not a solution at present

Killme00

El S,

How would you propose keeping them honest for the long run? Full disclosure doesnt work in its presnt format and neither do the regulatory bodies. How about indepent oversight?

How about communism becuase this democratic business clearly isnt working when the power base is corrupt, although the same could be said for all forms of government?

El Stuntman

Irlbo wrote: »

We dont need any more political parties,we have enough,and bringing in another one,will not make them less sh*t,dont forget the ones in government are just well known for being in government,there are dozens of political parties out there that started with good intensions and faded into the political limbo,Workers Party,Communist party,Irish peoples party,Progressive democrats,Irish republican socialist party,Christian Solidarity party,and scores f independants,all with diverse ideals and good intentions,were are they now?????????another party in an already crammed 'market' so to speak is cleary not a solution at present

spurious

the whig party no longer exists in Britain either but they had a good go over a couple of centuries; does that mean they should never have started?

if you take the PDs as your example, I think most people would admit they got a lot done over the course of their existence

OhNoYouDidn't

Killme00 wrote: »

I think he would make a good propaganda minister

Bagsy Minster of Sexy!

Love this idea man.

If you ever have need for someone to jump aboard with you I have some serious ideas about how to sort out the public service and massive and rapidly needed legal reforms.

As for viability; there is no time when people are more receptive to change than when things are looking bleak. What would you call your party Stunty?

strewelpeter

I'll vote for you , no problem...

In return for my vote I want:
The potholes on my road filled in.
A reversal of the fees for third level education.
Build the incinerator in Dublin and close the landfill up the road from me.
A unilateral condemnation of the recent Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people.
etc. ad nauseam

Killme00

And the introduction of Nuclear power

El Stuntman

strewelpeter wrote: »

I'll vote for you , no problem...

In return for my vote I want:
The potholes on my road filled in.
A reversal of the fees for third level education.
Build the incinerator in Dublin and close the landfill up the road from me.
A unilateral condemnation of the recent Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people.
etc. ad nauseam

what if I said 'no' to 1 and 4 and yes to 2 and 3?

(and really, foreign policy, outside of the EU anyway, is the least of our worries right now)

strewelpeter

El Stuntman wrote: »

what if I said 'no' to 1 and 4 and yes to 2 and 3?

(and really, foreign policy, outside of the EU anyway, is the least of our worries right now)

I was just being facetious.
Seriously though, yes the time is right but unless you were able to get serious numbers of defections then I think it would be easier to take over one of the two possible alternative parties FG or LAB from inside.
You are going to need political types to get anywhere and that is where they are.

El Stuntman

Killme00 wrote: »

El S,

How would you propose keeping them honest for the long run? Full disclosure doesnt work in its presnt format and neither do the regulatory bodies. How about indepent oversight?

did you not see the bit about finding best practice worldwide and copying it?

carlop

Irlbo wrote: »

We dont need any more political parties,we have enough,and bringing in another one,will not make them less sh*t,dont forget the ones in government are just well known for being in government,there are dozens of political parties out there that started with good intensions and faded into the political limbo,Workers Party,Communist party,Irish peoples party,Progressive democrats,Irish republican socialist party,Christian Solidarity party,and scores f independants,all with diverse ideals and good intentions,were are they now?????????another party in an already crammed 'market' so to speak is cleary not a solution at present

Most of the parties you mentioned were designed to appeal only to a particular niche in society, and I'd say the majority of Irish people run a mile when they see the word 'communist' or 'socialist,' as much as a result of ignorance as of anything else.

What I think El S is talking about is a new party that offers a broad appeal in a time of crisis, and that will not compromise itself like the PDs did by entering into coalition with Fianna Fail.

It's an idea I'd support, but unfortunately the majority of people in this country don't possess the mental capacity to look beyond the letters FF and FG in the ballot box, and will vote despite not knowing anything about a political party's manifesto. This is the problem with democracy, the ignorant carry far more weight than the informed, which is why people like Jackie Healy-Rae can continually retain their seat.

FTA69

El Stuntman wrote: »

by running on core values of honesty and competence - you don't think people will be attracted to a party that can offer this?

No, because honesty and competence isn't a core political value at all; every party professes to be honest and competent, what would make you different? Unless you have a coherent set of policies, some sort of an ideology and a strong local profile (all politics in Ireland is local) of activism then you have nothing. Simply pointing out how FF are a pack of gangsters isn't going to do you any favours either, negative politics never, ever gets you votes unless you can provide a clear alternative.

Every major party in Ireland is already gravitated around the centre, the only two parties that were really different were Sinn Féin and the PDs. The PDs are gone and SF is largely indistinguishable from the likes of Labour etc. The centre/populist ground is well and truly sewn up and any party with vague notions of "back to basics", "honesty and competence" etc isn't exactly injecting anything new into the political landscape.

Even the terms "honesty and competence" are Fine Gael's chosen words when they start banging on about how they should be in power instead of Tweedledee.

carlop

El Stuntman wrote: »

did you not see the bit about finding best practice worldwide and copying it?

I presume this would be one of the Scandinavian models. I know very little about economics but would I be right in saying that the high levels of public expenditure in these countries should make them more recession-proof than others?

The problem with emulating the Scandinavian system is that it means raising taxes, and if anything can be taken from the last 15 years, it is that we are greedy as a race. Even though a lot of evidence proves it to be the most efficient and competitive economic model, it would be a very hard sell. I think the Scandinavian system can only work in the Scandinavian countries, as only Scandinavians will accept such a system.

carlop

carlop wrote: »

It's an idea I'd support, but unfortunately the majority of people in this country don't possess the mental capacity to look beyond the letters FF and FG in the ballot box, and will vote despite not knowing anything about a political party's manifesto. This is the problem with democracy, the ignorant carry far more weight than the informed, which is why people like Jackie Healy-Rae can continually retain their seat.

It's statements like this that put you in the category of the ignorant I am afraid. You clearly do not understand Irish politics.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

carlop

Deleted User wrote: »

It's statements like this that put you in the category of the ignorant I am afraid. You clearly do not understand Irish politics.

Would you care to enlighten me so?

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement a little more. The majority of people in Ireland vote largely on local issues, or as a result of a family allegiance that goes back generations. I don't know if any research has been carried out that could back this up, so this is just my perception. However, if the above is true as I believe it to be, it would mean that the central policies of a political party are not the primary influence when the majority of people cast their vote.

Het-Field

The Reality is that Libertas and the Progressive Democrats have articulated the only two ways in which a new party can be started, and be effective. The former is bankrolled by huge amounts of money, and has been able to use this to cultivate an image of "eurocriticis". However, they have a long way to go before we can consider Libertas a credible and established organisation.

On the other hand the PDs were built on established personel. O Malley, Harney, Molloy, Keating, McDowell, Dardis, Cox, Wyse, O Donnell, O Byrnes, Parlon, Sexton, and unsuccessfully Colm O Gorman, all spring to mind. This ran out when the personality was no longer of interest to the Irish people, in spite of the undoubted success of the PDs.

As a result, one must question the longevity, or potential success of any new organisation.

I have heard of a vareity of parties including the so called "Priorities Party", and that cabal of old people who will stand at the local elections in protest over the way they were treated last Autumn. However, neither of these groups along with the SWP/PBP, The Christian Solidarity Party, Fathers Rights, The Workers Party and the Immigration Control Platform will have too many major successes at the upcoming European And Local Election. This is due to the fact that they have neither attribute whioch was crucial to the genesis of the PDs or Libertas.

People can talk policy all they like, however, there will always be a huge core vote for Fianna Fail, and another for Fine Gael. Labour will have one, but to a lesser extent. In 2007 it was en vogue to vote Green..this has changed as most Irish people realise that a terrible mistake has been made. Whatever can be said about the PDs providing excellent bedfellows for FF, the Greens have repudiated their principles immediatly. This has effectively led to a single party government which is out of control, and has no direction.

We need a new party, but a grass roots organisation is virtually impossible to build.

carlop

carlop wrote: »

Would you care to enlighten me so?

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement a little more. The majority of people in Ireland vote largely on local issues, or as a result of a family allegiance that goes back generations.

There ya go. Welcome back to the enlightened. "What have you done for me lately?" is the mantra of the Irish voter. Failing that they vote for who they know, and I mean that literally rather than "face" politicians. When Nora Owen lost her seat a few years ago it was arguably due to a divisive local campaign rather than any FG policy disputes. Similarly in my constituency John O'Leary, the last Dublin Captain to win an All-Ireland, stood for FF in the last election and lost by a mile. The man is a complete hero up here but sure enough the "what's he ever done for me?" factor was too great. Doesn't matter who you are or who you stand for; it matters what you, or your family (there is almost 0 distinction in the Irish mindset) have done for the local area.

This is why there are so many teachers in the Dail imo.

Killme00

carlop wrote: »

I presume this would be one of the Scandinavian models. I know very little about economics but would I be right in saying that the high levels of public expenditure in these countries should make them more recession-proof than others?

The problem with emulating the Scandinavian system is that it means raising taxes, and if anything can be taken from the last 15 years, it is that we are greedy as a race. Even though a lot of evidence proves it to be the most efficient and competitive economic model, it would be a very hard sell. I think the Scandinavian system can only work in the Scandinavian countries, as only Scandinavians will accept such a system.

Norway has a great system of investing third generation money into public services and infastrcuture. The problem is that Ireland doesnt have any natural resources like Norway ie Oil

The_Minister

El Stuntman wrote: »

I almost joined Fine Gael at the start of this year and indeed made the first steps, however their public pronouncements over the last fortnight have convinced me that they have nearly as little idea of how to formulate a coherent policy response than FF.

SNAP!!

I was just about to join Fine Gael when they came out with the populist, cowardly call for public sector wage cuts to only affect those earning over €100,000

carlop

Deleted User wrote: »

There ya go. Welcome back to the enlightened. "What have you done for me lately?" is the mantra of the Irish voter. Failing that they vote for who they know, and I mean that literally rather than "face" politicians. When Nora Owen lost her seat a few years ago it was arguably due to a divisive local campaign rather than any FG policy disputes. Similarly in my constituency John O'Leary, the last Dublin Captain to win an All-Ireland, stood for FF in the last election and lost by a mile. The man is a complete hero up here but sure enough the "what's he ever done for me?" factor was too great. Doesn't matter who you are or who you stand for; it matters what you, or your family (there is almost 0 distinction in the Irish mindset) have done for the local area.

This is why there are so many teachers in the Dail imo.

It feels good to be back, for a second there I thought the Poles were to blame for it all. This makes sense. When I said people don't look beyond FF and FG, maybe this is more to do with the fact that they best understand and exploit the "What have you done for me lately" mentality, however I still feel there is a significant number who will vote for FF or FG because they and their family always have, and who would not consider a third party option. Either way, national manifesto is largely ignored.

Would you agree that the 'What have you done for me lately' manifesto is detrimental to the functioning of central government? I think that if we accept it as the principal motivator in voting patterns, there needs to be a change in the Irish electoral system. Local concerns shouldn't be ignored by any means, but there are local councils to deal with them. A general election determines the next government of our State, and an issue such as 'the potholes on the main street in Ballinasloe' should not really be a general election outcome as it does not fall within the remit of central government.

El Stuntman

FTA69 wrote: »

No, because honesty and competence isn't a core political value at all; every party professes to be honest and competent, what would make you different?

demonstrating it

El Stuntman

carlop wrote: »

I presume this would be one of the Scandinavian models. I know very little about economics but would I be right in saying that the high levels of public expenditure in these countries should make them more recession-proof than others?

The problem with emulating the Scandinavian system is that it means raising taxes, and if anything can be taken from the last 15 years, it is that we are greedy as a race. Even though a lot of evidence proves it to be the most efficient and competitive economic model, it would be a very hard sell. I think the Scandinavian system can only work in the Scandinavian countries, as only Scandinavians will accept such a system.

you must have misconstrued my post; I was talking about copying their system with regards to political financing (if their system is in fact world-class) and the transparency thereof, not copying their economic models

El Stuntman

Het-Field wrote: »

People can talk policy all they like, however, there will always be a huge core vote for Fianna Fail, and another for Fine Gael. Labour will have one, but to a lesser extent. In 2007 it was en vogue to vote Green..this has changed as most Irish people realise that a terrible mistake has been made. Whatever can be said about the PDs providing excellent bedfellows for FF, the Greens have repudiated their principles immediatly. This has effectively led to a single party government which is out of control, and has no direction.

We need a new party, but a grass roots organisation is virtually impossible to build.

I know what you're saying but if everyone thought like that, then there would never be any change. I see a few other variants on the same theme.

any new party would need to constantly be on-message about how the old parties have failed and do not deserve the support of the electorate.

put it this way; there's a certain indvidual who's about to be sworn in to a rather important post today. I'm sure he was told lots of times that he was crazy even to think about running, that there was no way Americans would ever vote a black man into the White House.

optimism ftw!

Het-Field

El Stuntman wrote: »

I know what you're saying but if everyone thought like that, then there would never be any change. I see a few other variants on the same theme.

any new party would need to constantly be on-message about how the old parties have failed and do not deserve the support of the electorate.

put it this way; there's a certain indvidual who's about to be sworn in to a rather important post today. I'm sure he was told lots of times that he was crazy even to think about running, that there was no way Americans would ever vote a black man into the White House.

optimism ftw!

Problem is the Irish system has frozen a bit. The Evangelical Right of the Republican Party has made America the most upopular nation of the world. Obama has captured a mood optimism. I still maintain the John McCain is one of the best candidates ever put forward by the Reoublicans, and the world would have been better off it the Republicans had selected him in 2000.

IN Ireland we have no stand out politician like McCain, Obama, Clinton or Paul. The two party system is prevalent in America, however, in Ireland its worst. 80 years of history cant be wrong. I would like to talk optimistically about a new party in Ireland, however, as somebody who have been very heavily involved in politics of some kind for the past four years, I realise that it is not as simple as idealism, and the reality of the situation must be accounted for

Sirtoyou

Fratton Fred wrote: »

an excellent idea. How do you propose getting to people to vote for your party, presuming none of the members are related to De Velera?

I know we all moan about the amount of money TDs earn, but you are talking about business leaders on a lot more than €100k. getting them to give up jobs in the hope of securing a seat would be a big ask at the moment.

Conscription in a time of crisis?Start treating this as a war against bankruptcy.

TommyGunne

All very well and good to propose a new party which would be honest and competent, but who would you get to run as a member of it? Anyone who is actually intelligent would never try and be a politician, so that immediately rules out competency. I would imagine that honesty would actually be a much easier attribute to find in potential candidates than competency, contrary to popular opinions of politicians.

grahamo

Think we need a politician who will lead. As said above there are no stand out politicians in Ireland at the minute. Brian Cowen doesn't exactly have the "Up & at 'em" look about him (although to be fair he gave a good speech today but he just has no passion in his voice) and as for Enda Kenny...How can we be expected to take seriously a man that lived with his mammy till he was 40

Irlbo

grahamo wrote: »

Think we need a politician who will lead. As said above there are no stand out politicians in Ireland at the minute. Brian Cowen doesn't exactly have the "Up & at 'em" look about him (although to be fair he gave a good speech today but he just has no passion in his voice) and as for Enda Kenny...How can we be expected to take seriously a man that lived with his mammy till he was 40

TED,DID YOU ASK FOR A DRAMATIC DYNAMIC VOICE!!!!!no he asked for a boring,a boring voice

Leon08

@ El Stuntman

Although I agree whole-heartedly with your opening post, I also see the points highlighted in subsequent posts in relation to the difficulties that you would encounter, in particular the relentless mentality when it comes to voting for candidates on the basis of local issues, historical allegiances and family ties.

Let's try and take the discussion to a new level. Let's say that you managed to found a new political party, how would you go about organising it? How would you recruiting the honest, intelligent and motivated individuals that you envision will make up this organisation?

El Stuntman

Leon08 wrote: »

@ El Stuntman

Although I agree whole-heartedly with your opening post, I also see the points highlighted in subsequent posts in relation to the difficulties that you would encounter, in particular the relentless mentality when it comes to voting for candidates on the basis of local issues, historical allegiances and family ties.

morning,

it is somewhat depressing to see the Irish mentality at its negative 'best' in this thread i.e. for every positive thought there are several negative ones saying that you will never overcome the status quo, people will always vote on the basis of family allegiance etc. Basically finding a reason to continue to accept the mediocrity, carp from the sidelines and remain essentially civically uninvolved.

Not much in the way of 'yes we can' thinking here!

Leon08 wrote: »

Let's say that you managed to found a new political party, how would you go about organising it?

I think the Obama campaign showed the way as to the future of political organisation:

- enthuse your hard-core supporters. Any new party would need a hard core of thousands of supporters who are actually prepared to roll their sleeves up, get out and work hard for electoral success. I would focus primarily on people under 30 here. If a new party could recruit 10,000 committed supporters that fit this description nationwide, that would be a great start.

- use the Net to its full potential.

- remain relentlessly on-message. The amount of gaffes that came out of the Obama camp was astonishing - there were hardly any. Remind voters every hour of every day why you are different, why the current parties have failed and what you offer as a fresh vision.

Leon08 wrote: »

How would you recruiting the honest, intelligent and motivated individuals that you envision will make up this organisation?

again, enthusing your base. If you can recruit 10,000 committed supporters there will clearly be some amongst them who would fit the bill as regards being electable. It's all about building momentum; there is a huge groundswell of opinion out there who are totally dissatisifed with the way the country has been run, we need to tap into that potential.

A lot of media people would also be very receptive to a new party; Stephen Collins in the IT, Gene Kerrigan in the Sindo spring to mind as two examples who are clearly disgusted with the current government.

I'd also try to recruit some high-profile people who are not associated with the status quo; people who have shown a capacity to challenge accepted thinking. Morgan Kelly, Alan Ahern and (dare I say it ) David MacWilliams would fit this bill. That surgeon who's often on the radio (some cancer guy, can't remember his name) would also be good. I wouldn't be above stealing talent from other parties as long as they fitted with our core values.

meh, just throwing some ideas out there. What do you think yourself?

Leon08

El Stuntman wrote: »

it is somewhat depressing to see the Irish mentality at its negative 'best' in this thread i.e. for every positive thought there are several negative ones saying that you will never overcome the status quo, people will always vote on the basis of family allegiance etc. Basically finding a reason to continue to accept the mediocrity, carp from the sidelines and remain essentially civically uninvolved.

Not much in the way of 'yes we can' thinking here!

Good morning! I never said it couldn't be done, in fact as you mentioned, the Obama campaign disproved that notion. But there is a saying, I'm sure that you are well aware of it: "Old habits die hard". There's no sense in denying that fact.

I would focus primarily on people under 30

I think you are on the right track here, considering the afore-mentioned point. Young people, especially College students (like myself), are usually enthusiastic about change and new initiatives. Your thoughts on this?

enthuse your hard-core supporters. Any new party would need a hard core of thousands of supporters who are actually prepared to roll their sleeves up, get out and work hard for electoral success.

Very true, its important to walk-the-walk as well as talk-the-talk. One thing, I am of the opinion that voters should be approached on a regular basis and keep track of their opinions, discuss issues with them etc, not just in the run up to an election. Do you agree?

use the Net to its full potential.

Definitely, this was used to great advantage by the Obama campaign. I think this medium is still relatively unused by irish political parties, i havent come across any substantial online FG/FF/Labour political advertising anyway.

And yes, it would definitely be worth getting some popular media figures on our side. Instead of ignoring their questions like most politicians do, try and engage them in discussions on important topics.

Right then, you've convinced me (actually you didnt even need to, Ive been dreaming of this for a long long time!). When do we get started?

El Stuntman

Leon08 wrote: »

I think you are on the right track here, considering the afore-mentioned point. Young people, especially College students (like myself), are usually enthusiastic about change and new initiatives. Your thoughts on this?

plus they are usually willing to work for free :pac: (or even a few beers)

politics itself needs a makeover in this country. Your average punter who sees Cowen waffling or Kenny making no point whatsoever is turned off by politics. Politics needs to be made relevant to everyday lives.

Leon08 wrote: »

Very true, its important to walk-the-walk as well as talk-the-talk. One thing, I am of the opinion that voters should be approached on a regular basis and keep track of their opinions, discuss issues with them etc, not just in the run up to an election. Do you agree?

again, this would tie in with embracing the net and new models of social networking etc (maybe we could take over Boards from the inside )

Leon08 wrote: »

And yes, it would definitely be worth getting some popular media figures on our side. Instead of ignoring their questions like most politicians do, try and engage them in discussions on important topics.

play to their ego you mean? whatever works I suppose!

Leon08 wrote: »

Right then, you've convinced me (actually you didnt even need to, Ive been dreaming of this for a long long time!). When do we get started?

no idea , get enough like-minded people together and get cracking?

Leon08

El Stuntman wrote: »

plus they are usually willing to work for free :pac: (or even a few beers)

politics itself needs a makeover in this country. Your average punter who sees Cowen waffling or Kenny making no point whatsoever is turned off by politics. Politics needs to be made relevant to everyday lives.

Yeah, and the likes of Jackie Haely-Rae and Beverly Flynn dont do much for the image of politics either.

again, this would tie in with embracing the net and new models of social networking etc (maybe we could take over Boards from the inside )

Now thats an idea But seriously, most young people know more about the intricate details of Bebo than they do about current affairs. How many students have you met that can accurately name the members of the Cabinet and their positions?

play to their ego you mean? whatever works I suppose!

You read my mind...

no idea , get enough like-minded people together and get cracking?

Cool, let's get going!

irish_bob

carlop wrote: »

Would you care to enlighten me so?

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement a little more. The majority of people in Ireland vote largely on local issues, or as a result of a family allegiance that goes back generations. I don't know if any research has been carried out that could back this up, so this is just my perception. However, if the above is true as I believe it to be, it would mean that the central policies of a political party are not the primary influence when the majority of people cast their vote.

you have it in one , most irish people dont vote based on issues , its all down to which way the family tree swings

Zuiderzee

Killme00 wrote: »

Norway has a great system of investing third generation money into public services and infastrcuture. The problem is that Ireland doesnt have any natural resources like Norway ie Oil

We have gas, as does Norway. However, they get 40-50% of the gas sales, we wont - FF gave it away.

El Stuntman

Deleted User wrote: »

As for viability; there is no time when people are more receptive to change than when things are looking bleak. What would you call your party Stunty?

no idea: I'm sure we could come up with something snappy that pushes the change message

Raiser

Well I'm shifty, sneaky and have very deep pockets - I'll re-zone, rehouse and evict on demand.... I can lie, cheat, steal and kill..... Drug, mug, batter, embezzle and con..... Its no trouble to me to Rip-off, hoodwink, repossess, dispossess..... I'll kidnap, extort, torture and murder..... I'll intimidate, cohearse and demean and disinherit.....

- I'm an Irish Politician and you'll never change ME!